NBA 2018-2019 playoffs thread...finals is set..”Warriors vs Raptors 2-4” Raptors win the title!!!

[4 Dimensional]

Could be confusing correlation with causation but the scoring stopped immediately after the box and 1 was implemented. I mean that literally. The raptors hadn't made up any scoring ground until that moment. And they were still scoring at the same clip when Klay went down.

It probably wouldn't work again, but something like that can completely throw an offense off considering no one has probably played against once since high school..if even then.

Maybe the box and one played a part in the lack of scoring at the end, but also lack of scorers under late circumstances too.

Curry wasn't killing them like that, so I don't understand why it was necessary. The same role players where getting the same shots as they were earlier in the 4th. They weren't hitting them anymore.

Maybe I'll revisit the last 7 minutes of the game.

 

[Spectrum]

Curry wasn't killing them like that, so I don't understand why it was necessary. .

Curry didn't score or have any assist in the entire 4th.

The box and 1 is just a zone. But you can't run a zone with a pure shooter on the floor. So you go to a 2up 2down zone with man coverage on the pure shooter so he doesn't get wide open shots with his feet set. That's pretty much a layup for guys like Klay, Curry, and KD.

It was less about what Curry was doing(because he wasn't doing shit) and more about throwing something at the Warriors to catch them off guard and fuck up their offensive flow (but you know it cant work if you give the pure shooter layups so you can't run a pure zone). The Raptors came into the 4th down 10 and with 5 minutes left they were still down 10... so they threw something at the Warriors that cut the lead cut down to 2 points with less than a minute left. It almost worked.

It was less about Curry and more about fucking everyone else up.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Curry hadn't scored in the 4th up until that point. He didn't score after it either.

It wasn't because "they could do nothing to stop him from controlling the game. Curry wasn't doing shit. They did it to completely disrupt the offense and force them to up the tempo...which they needed in order to catch up because they needed more possessions.

Your argument only makes sense if Curry was "controlling" the game. He neither scored or assisted on any points up until that point or after in the 4th.

He indirectly did which is the problem and disconnect in all arguments dealing with curry

If Draymond or cousins has the ball
And curry flashes across the lane and 2 defenders go to him leaving a dude open for a layup or 3 curry didn't score or assist on that play but how did they get the opportunity to get that basket?

And it's a thing that keeps happening and kept happening the pressure to double keep a body on him help on him opened up the offense for everyone else the required attention needed to keep pace with him ruined their defense

And in response they took the pressure off of everyone needing to be aware of where he is and told everyone don't worry stay in this zone and 1 guy will follow him


Every basket in the 2nd half was assisted every single fucking won

How did these dudes get lobs layups wide open 3s???

 

[4 Dimensional]

Curry didn't score or have any assist in the entire 4th.

The box and 1 is just a zone. But you can't run a zone with a pure shooter on the floor. So you go to a 2up 2down zone with man coverage on the pure shooter so he doesn't get wide open shots with his feet set. That's pretty much a layup for guys like Klay, Curry, and KD.

It was less about what Curry was doing(because he wasn't doing shit) and more about throwing something at the Warriors to catch them off guard and fuck up their offensive flow (but you know it cant work if you give the pure shooter layups so you can't run a pure zone). The Raptors came into the 4th down 10 and with 5 minutes left they were still down 10... so they threw something at the Warriors that cut the lead cut down to 2 points with less than a minute left. It almost worked.

It was less about Curry and more about fucking everyone else up.

Hmm, I see your point. I can agree with that.

Maybe it did throw a wrench into their offensive machine, but I'm not 100% sure Nurse implemented that in based on how you explained it though.

Unless he said it, it seems like it was more about containing Curry (which he was already contained for the most part).

They way I saw it was to keep Curry from shooting the rock late in the game. Those same shots that was falling early in the 4th for the roles wasn't falling late.

It was less about what Curry was doing(because he wasn't doing shit) and more about throwing something at the Warriors to catch them off guard and fuck up their offensive flow

Is that how you interpreted or was that Nurse's exact intention? Because if it was, then it was a nice chess move. I just find it hard to believe that Nurse is that thoughtful to make a box and 1 less about Curry and more about messing up their offensive flow. I took it as preventing Curry from hitting them with daggers.

 

[Spectrum]

He indirectly did which is the problem and disconnect in all arguments dealing with curry
?

Curry had no points or assists in the 4th and leading up to the box and 1, he wasn't getting doubled. Curry was being handled. The box and 1 wasn't because curry couldn't be defended. Stop. Are you now arguing that Curry was wreaking havoc on the 4th quarter defense while putting up zero points and assists

Is that where we are now?

the box and 1 was implemented for the very reason I explained. Curry was already under control. It wasn't implemented for him. It was for the other players but you can't run a pure zone with a pure shooter on the court so you run a hybrid zone (which is a box and 1). I don't give a fuck if Curry (or Klay or KD) hasn't been scoring, if you give them wide open shots, you'll lose. The raptors will live with Iggy hitting the 3 because you'd rather him shooting it than any of the other pure shooters on the court.

 

[playahaitian]

He indirectly did which is the problem and disconnect in all arguments dealing with curry

If Draymond or cousins has the ball
And curry flashes across the lane and 2 defenders go to him leaving a dude open for a layup or 3 curry didn't score or assist on that play but how did they get the opportunity to get that basket?

And it's a thing that keeps happening and kept happening the pressure to double keep a body on him help on him opened up the offense for everyone else the required attention needed to keep pace with him ruined their defense

And in response they took the pressure off of everyone needing to be aware of where he is and told everyone don't worry stay in this zone and 1 guy will follow him


Every basket in the 2nd half was assisted every single fucking won

How did these dudes get lobs layups wide open 3s???

Hmm, I see your point. I can agree with that.

Maybe it did throw a wrench into their offensive machine, but I'm not 100% sure Nurse implemented that in based on how you explained it though.

Unless he said it, it seems like it was more about containing Curry (which he was contained for the most part).

They way I saw it was to keep Curry from shooting the rock late in the game. Those same shots that was falling early in the 4th for the roles wasn't falling late.



Is that how you interpreted or was that Nurse's exact intention? Because if it was, then it was a nice chess move. I just find it hard to believe that Nurse is that thoughtful to make a box and 1 less about Curry and more about messing up their offensive flow. I took it as preventing Curry from hitting them with daggers.

Box and 1 = Marvin's Room defense

 

[Spectrum]

Is that how you interpreted or was that Nurse's exact intention? Because if it was, then it was a nice chess move. I just find it hard to believe that Nurse is that thoughtful to make a box and 1 less about Curry and more about messing up their offensive flow. I took it as preventing Curry from hitting them with daggers.

Oh. That's exactly why you would run it in that situation. It's the ONLY reason why you could and would do it. If one more pure shooter was on the floor, you couldn't do it. It would be a suicide mission.

If Klay can't play and KD doesn't come back in game 3, I would run that shit again and see how they deal with it. A zone turns you into a jump shooting squad because it's hard to drive on... make them other cats shoot jumpers exclusively.

 

[playahaitian]

He’s not getting a max contract, so I hope he doesn’t expect that to happen.

He is just so gifted

He has NEVER been utilized properly

 

[Spectrum]

Unless he said it, it seems like it was more about containing Curry (which he was already contained for the most part).

They way I saw it was to keep Curry from shooting the rock late in the game. Those same shots that was falling early in the 4th for the roles wasn't falling late.

.

All you wanted was for Curry to continue to do what he was already doing (not scoring or assisting). It was the other players that you needed to disrupt and it almost worked. I thought it was a bold move by the coach and the shit almost worked...certainly what they were doing up to that point wasn't working.

It's just that if you run a poor zone, you'd allow one of the greatest shooters of all time to get completely set somewhere on the perimeter. That's a losing proposition.

You couldn't even run a box and 1 if Klay was on the floor as well. Because you've leave one pure shooter to get set. It was only possible because Klay got hurt.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

Y’all niggas be arguing with eewwll like he gonna fold.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Oh. That's exactly why you would run it in that situation. It's the ONLY reason why you could and would do it. If one more pure shooter was on the floor, you couldn't do it. It would be a suicide mission.

If Klay can't play and KD doesn't come back in game 3, I would run that shit again and see how they deal with it. A zone turns you into a jump shooting squad because it's hard to drive on... make them other cats shoot jumpers exclusively.

If Cook and them boys would have still been cooking like they were earlier in the 4th, then the box and one would have been useless and Curry would have been assisting. So is hard for me to differentiate between the effectiveness of the box and one and the role players simply going cold and hesitant.

Maybe a combination of both. Them roles were already shooting jumpers before the zone defense. Did the zone have them taking more contested shots.

Again I need to rewatch. I see your point here, I'm just not sold on the effectiveness on it. It seems like everything GS offensive was forced into during the box and one was already happening before then. Difference was them hitting their shots versus not hitting their shots.

He is just so gifted

He has NEVER been utilized properly

He has good talent. A great coach would have brought out his better side.

 

[Spectrum]

If Cook and them boys would have still been cooking like they were earlier in the 4th, then the box and one would have been useless .

He would have switched right back to man after two possessions. He certainly wasn't on some.. let's run a box and 1 for the rest of the game.... it was let's see how they deal with this and the Warriors couldn't adjust to it to they just ran with it.

 

[playahaitian]

If Cook and them boys would have still been cooking like they were earlier in the 4th, then the box and one would have been useless and Curry would have been assisting. So is hard for me to differentiate between the effectiveness of the box and one and the role players simply going cold and hesitant.

Maybe a combination of both. Them roles were already shooting jumpers before the zone defense. Did the zone have them taking more contested shots.

Again I need to rewatch. I see your point here, I'm just not sold on the effectiveness on it. It seems like everything GS offensive was forced into during the box and one was already happening before then. Difference was them hitting their shots versus not hitting their shots.



He has good talent. A great coach would have brought out his better side.

Sidebar...

Ummmm

Why are not discussing Kyle Lowry?

Cause homeboy was being called a super star max player while Bron was still in the East

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Curry had no points or assists in the 4th and leading up to the box and 1, he wasn't getting doubled. Curry was being handled. The box and 1 wasn't because curry couldn't be defended. Stop. Are you now arguing that Curry was wreaking havoc on the 4th quarter defense while putting up zero points and assists

Is that where we are now?

the box and 1 was implemented for the very reason I explained. Curry was already under control. It wasn't implemented for him. It was for the other players but you can't run a pure zone with a pure shooter on the court so you run a hybrid zone (which is a box and 1). I don't give a fuck if Curry (or Klay or KD) hasn't been scoring, if you give them wide open shots, you'll lose. The raptors will live with Iggy hitting the 3 because you'd rather him shooting it than any of the other pure shooters on the court.

0 points and zero assists because the team was literally double and triple teaming him so he did what he was supposed to do
Get it out of his hands so that these other wide open NBA players can get easy ass fucking shots

We see the shit every damn game

Double curry leaving shooters wide open

Double curry leaving a dude wide open for layups

It's a shame that people won't acknowledge that

That's all I'm saying.


Literally every bball breakdown person
NBA players
And coaches are talking about this shit and the reason they did it is because of Curry's impact
So you don't even need to take my word for it

Please don't

Take theirs

Just look at what they are saying not me forget me

 

[Spectrum]

Did the zone have them taking more contested shots.

.

It's just a flow issue. You're not getting the ball from the same position, the offense is a bit rushed so someone is pulling up early instead of making the extra pass, etc... it just disrupts the flow. Like I said, if they tried it again, it likely wouldn't work because Kerry has already walked them through how to attack it... just in the heat of the moment, they didn't know what to do with it because it's likely been a decade or more since any of them have seen a box and 1.... you don't even see that shit in high school ball much anymore.. it's truly some middle school shit

 

[4 Dimensional]

He would have switched right back to man after two possessions. He certainly wasn't on some.. let's run a box and 1 for the rest of the game.... it was let's see how they deal with this and the Warriors couldn't adjust to it to they just ran with it.

You think Nurse is a good coach like that? Honestly?

Coach Spectrum, yeah that make sense. But Nurse?

You're giving him more credit than me. That last possession completely shits on his bold box and one defense.

 

[Spectrum]

Sidebar...

Ummmm

Why are not discussing Kyle Lowry?

Cause homeboy was being called a super star max player while Bron was still in the East

Lowry is garbage...how does a guard foul out in 27 minutes?

 

[Spectrum]

You think Nurse is a good coach like that? Honestly?

Coach Spectrum, yeah that make sense. But Nurse?

You're giving him more credit than me. That last possession completely shits on his bold box and one defense.

Maybe Nurse just got lucky?

I don't think it shits on it, that's what the box and one was designed for... for players like Iggy to shoot the long ball. Iggy shot 30% from 3 for the season. I'll take those odds... they just didn't rotate over at all and try to contest it. He just made the shot. If I have a one possession game, I'm fine with Iggy being the person taking a long jumper. That play would have never happened had the Raptors fouled like they were supposed to though.

 

[Spectrum]

0 points and zero assists because the team was literally double and triple teaming him

You're imagining things.

Now Bills is saying they were playing some new shit. 2 floating defenders and 3 on Curry

They were Randy Mossing him, huh??

So there was the nigga on the ball... 3 on curry and then 1 person defending the other 3 warriors, right? lmbaooooo

 

[Spectrum]

Double curry leaving a dude wide open for layups

e

what layups yall getting during the final 5 and half minutes they ran the box and 1. Yall scored 1 fg and it was a 3.

 

[M.H.C.]

Can somebody please explain to me why playing a Zone in the NBA is deemed as "bad". Like bruh, since grade school, when niggas lit you up from the 3, coach would implement a 3-2 zone and if your team was worth a damn, the 3's stopped and they had to figure something else out. With the way the game is played today, why are coaches so hesitant to "Zone" in the NBA? These are professionals. They should be able to play Zone Defense and play it effectively. In the NFL defensive backs play Zone and nobody knocks them for it. It's like in the NBA you need to be able to "Man up" or nothing else. Cool but the problem is that most of these dudes don't give a damn about playing solid man defense and the offensive skill development in the NBA is clearly light years ahead of any defensive development.

I'm tired of seeing simple ass ball movement make teams look like they never played defense in their life and that goes for EVERY SINGLE TEAM. All you have to do is move the ball and you'll exploit 99% of the teams defenses in the league. That's why "Harden-ball" would never win a title because isolation isn't as effective as ball movement. That's why Greek Freek got shut down and he was shut down by a ZONE.

 

[Rembrandt Brown]

Because they're going to a larger lineup with him on the floor (because of injuries) and the Raptors have small guards and Siakam also struggles against bigs in the paint. It's a catch 22 for the Warriors... they prefer the small ball lineup but that's also the lineup the Raptors prefer

Brian Windhorst said the same thing... The Raptors were 20/28 (71.4%) in the paint in game 1... 22/46 (47.8%) in game 2!

 

[Amajorfucup]

Brian Windhorst said the same thing...

White man said it then it must be true.

 

[alexw]

 

[Dr. Truth]

 

[Amajorfucup]

 

[Rembrandt Brown]

Cuz...

I think it goes deeper with this man right here.

"That's really the only reason I like playing basketball."

*Insert "Not Sure If Serious" pic*

Sounds like he was fucking around...

This guy is different...

“See, here’s how it works. One day, you’re replaced. Then it’s some other motherf***er in there. And then there’s another motherf***er. And another after that. Nobody remembers anything. None of it matters!”

 

[BrownTurd]

Oh. That's exactly why you would run it in that situation. It's the ONLY reason why you could and would do it. If one more pure shooter was on the floor, you couldn't do it. It would be a suicide mission.

If Klay can't play and KD doesn't come back in game 3, I would run that shit again and see how they deal with it. A zone turns you into a jump shooting squad because it's hard to drive on... make them other cats shoot jumpers exclusively.

Yeah they ran the Box and 1 because they New Curry was playing kill the clock offense in which he would keep the ball in his hand.

Trap curry and get the ball out of his hand then force others to score because we know Curry will hit at at least a 40% clip on a bad day and that would have iced the game

 

[BrownTurd]

Can somebody please explain to me why playing a Zone in the NBA is deemed as "bad". Like bruh, since grade school, when niggas lit you up from the 3, coach would implement a 3-2 zone and if your team was worth a damn, the 3's stopped and they had to figure something else out. With the way the game is played today, why are coaches so hesitant to "Zone" in the NBA? These are professionals. They should be able to play Zone Defense and play it effectively. In the NFL defensive backs play Zone and nobody knocks them for it. It's like in the NBA you need to be able to "Man up" or nothing else. Cool but the problem is that most of these dudes don't give a damn about playing solid man defense and the offensive skill development in the NBA is clearly light years ahead of any defensive development.

I'm tired of seeing simple ass ball movement make teams look like they never played defense in their life and that goes for EVERY SINGLE TEAM. All you have to do is move the ball and you'll exploit 99% of the teams defenses in the league. That's why "Harden-ball" would never win a title because isolation isn't as effective as ball movement. That's why Greek Freek got shut down and he was shut down by a ZONE.

Zones are used to for a defense who does not have the athletic ability to play man defense. If you are playing against a team who has more athleticism, a zone can equal the playing field.

The problem with running a zone in the NBA is that most, of not all NBA players can knock down open jumpers. Good shooting kills a zone

 

[4 Dimensional]

Maybe Nurse just got lucky?

I don't think it shits on it, that's what the box and one was designed for... for players like Iggy to shoot the long ball. Iggy shot 30% from 3 for the season. I'll take those odds... they just didn't rotate over at all and try to contest it. He just made the shot. If I have a one possession game, I'm fine with Iggy being the person taking a long jumper. That play would have never happened had the Raptors fouled like they were supposed to though.

What I meant by "shit on" was that the last possession of not fouling was so dumb, that to come up with a brilliant scheme (as you explained it) to run a box a 1 that was less about Curry and more about disrupting an offensive flow just doesn't correlate well with me.

That's why I kind of feel that box and 1 scheme that helped the Raptors cut the lead is more your interpretation versus Nurse's intentions. So yeah, I think he got lucky, which there is nothing wrong with that as a coach because some times you have to make bold moves in hope something will work out in your favor.

I understand why you would run it though; to force other players to make shots while keeping the primary scorer in check since there is no other pure shooter. But since Curry was already in check for the most part and the role players went from scoring to cold, I can't really say for certain if the box and 1 was as effective as it seemed like.

And only not to foul at the end that led to Iggy hitting a three. So you get what you want out of the box and 1, but make or miss, the Raptors was fucked because there was 3 seconds difference between shot clock and game clock. So they had little chance to even make something happen if he would have missed.

I'm not even sure I know what we are even discussing anymore...

 

[Rembrandt Brown]

This guy is different...

“See, here’s how it works. One day, you’re replaced. Then it’s some other motherf***er in there. And then there’s another motherf***er. And another after that. Nobody remembers anything. None of it matters!”

Basketball Hall of Fame- Do Andre Iguodala or Robert Horry belong?

 

[Lower9Nupe]

Basketball Hall of Fame- Do Andre Iguodala, Dennis Rodman or Robert Horry belong?

Dennis is already there? Horry? All he did was hit key open shots. It's the equivalent of Kerr hitting a winning shot times what three or some shit. Iguodala? Different resume. Key defender. So much so he got a Finals MVP. Last night was just more icing. The media really likes him. He will get in when it's all said and done.

 

[Spectrum]

What I meant by "shit on" was that the last possession of not fouling was so dumb, ..

Yeah. They should have fouled Livingston. That possession played out exactly how they wanted it ... Livingstone was just holding the ball at the top of the key.

 

[Amajorfucup]

This guy is different...

“See, here’s how it works. One day, you’re replaced. Then it’s some other motherf***er in there. And then there’s another motherf***er. And another after that. Nobody remembers anything. None of it matters!”

Iggys case is like Rodmans??!!

HORRENDOUS take!!!

 

[Amajorfucup]

Yeah. They should have fouled Livingston. That possession played out exactly how they wanted it ... Livingstone was just holding the ball at the top of the key.

And he absolutely would have shit the bed... Then we ("we" meaning them) would be saying "Hey, they shut down GSW offense for 5 minutes with a box and 1".