MONDAY NIGHT WARS BACK IN EFFECT WWE v TNA v AEW aka The Pro Wrestling Thread

[0utsyder]

good or bad but I have been a WWE lifer
but WWE has really focused on the business and entertainment at the expense of their hardcore fans, story telling and future

if AEW were around back in the day Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Adam Cole, and countless others would've never gone to WWE/NXT

NXT was the alternative to WWE main roster and kinda/sorta a super indy under the WWE umbrellla
aint no kind/sorta with AEW. Its by fans for the fans. They care about their audience and their talent.

it seems like with the changes to NXT and the roster cuts WWE is pivoting harder to Sports Entertainment and larger than life personalities. Fuck Wrestling, the fans and talent.

real talk I am watching more and more AEW and just reading summaries for WWE. NXT was my favorite WWE programming and now its really gonna be WWE main roster light instead of an alternative.

it might take a while but WWE may regret this shift and wonder what the fuck happened. They've gotten complacement, put profit ahead of everything else and learned the wrong lessons from the emegerence of AEW. I guess they cant out AEW so they decided to completely pivot with NXT.

there is way more buzz excitement around AEW right now. There isnt an amount of Goldberg, Brock, Becky, returns they can pull out anymore.

Dog, the only thing WWE has going for it right now is Roman Reigns, they neutered The Hurt Business, they broke up The New Day. Xavier is doing nothing. Big E has a push coming soon, hopefully. Every black female wrestler just gets shyted on by their white counterparts.

It's just not a good product.

 

[gdatruth]

Dog, the only thing WWE has going for it right now is Roman Reigns, they neutered The Hurt Business, they broke up The New Day. Xavier is doing nothing. Big E has a push coming soon, hopefully. Every black female wrestler just gets shyted on by their white counterparts.

It's just not a good product.

they also knee capped Bianca & the booking with Charoltte gotta Rhea DOA
one good thing they got going for them Riddle. Hopefully they dont fuck that up cause he is that bastard son of RVD & Angle. Can go in the ring, entertaining and could sell kids merchandise. If aint the champ by this time next year you know WWE is still on some bullshit.

 

[0utsyder]

they also knee capped Bianca & the booking with Charoltte gotta Rhea DOA
one good thing they got going for them Riddle. Hopefully they dont fuck that up cause he is that bastard son of RVD & Angle. Can go in the ring, entertaining and could sell kids merchandise. If aint the champ by this time next year you know WWE is still on some bullshit.

No Vince likes a type... Are we sure Vince isn't bisexual?!?! Riddle doesn't fit that type, a middle/welterweight that doesn't have a lineage in wrestling doesn't fit that type. He'd have to go back to NXT to become champ

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

I really hope this doesn't bury the day one AEW talent. Cause when was the last time you saw Joey Janella? Him and the gay black dude seemed to have a feud going and then nothing, unless all that played out on Dark. This MMA/AEW with Scorpio Sky doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

He's still on Dark, last week they've paired him with (what I'm confidently assuming is) another transformer. Some swole muthafucka in a dress and a wig.

Starting to wonder if Joey is in the alphabet community.

 

[GULLAH JACK]

Any download links for the AEW "All Out" ppv?

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

Dog, the only thing WWE has going for it right now is Roman Reigns, they neutered The Hurt Business, they broke up The New Day. Xavier is doing nothing. Big E has a push coming soon, hopefully. Every black female wrestler just gets shyted on by their white counterparts.

It's just not a good product.

I've only been following to see what they're gonna do with Big E.

But with the way they just did Bianca, which is reminiscent of what they did with Kofi, which is in alignment with the way they've historically done black wrestlers, I'm not confident that they won't do Big E the same way.

Hell, they're not even building him up like he could be a legit champion. They just got him trolling Heyman, not even Roman, just Heyman and doing these comedy spots.

Like it'll be a nice moment when he wins the title for the genuine emotion, but it's like "will he even win it, tho?"

WWE only cares to create moments, and then when the moment's over, it's "alright, squash him. Can't get the title off him fast enough."

 

[XXXplosive]

I really hope this doesn't bury the day one AEW talent. Cause when was the last time you saw Joey Janella? Him and the gay black dude seemed to have a feud going and then nothing, unless all that played out on Dark. This MMA/AEW with Scorpio Sky doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I hear what you're saying, but Joey Janella sucks and Sonny Kiss is a freak show. Sorry.
Keep that on the YouTube show, that's not primetime programming.

Some of the AEW day one talent is gonna have to sink or swim now. Some of that sideshow carny stuff is gonna have to go.
Cats like MJF, Sammy Guevara, and Hangman Page will be fine.
With Rampage, Dynamite and the YouTube shows, they have enough platforms to showcase all their talent.

 

[datboi]

I love these two! LOL!

You know she brings home other women for Miro

 

[datboi]

I hear what you're saying, but Joey Janella sucks and Sonny Kiss is a freak show. Sorry.
Keep that on the YouTube show, that's not primetime programming.

Some of the AEW day one talent is gonna have to sink or swim now. Some of that sideshow carny stuff is gonna have to go.
Cats like MJF, Sammy Guevara, and Hangman Page will be fine.
With Rampage, Dynamite and the YouTube shows, they have enough platforms to showcase all their talent.

AEW should get rid of the FTW champion or make it their version of a hard-core/extreme championship.

Next AEW targets should be Sasha, Moose, Bray Wyatt and Braun Strowman.

Don't judge me I'm trying to be more tolerant but:
Lastly just embrace the whole gay theme with the above the should introduce an intergender Rainbow champion. First Match. NYLA Rose vs Sonny Kiss.

 

[dtownsfinest]

I really hope this doesn't bury the day one AEW talent. Cause when was the last time you saw Joey Janella? Him and the gay black dude seemed to have a feud going and then nothing, unless all that played out on Dark. This MMA/AEW with Scorpio Sky doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I thought about that too. They just brought in for sure 2 main event guys in Punk and Bryan. Its only natural that they took two guys spots and two guys go a step down.

And I guess this is where WWE and other places go? Eventually guys will get disgruntled and I guess WWE will be there to pick them up?

 

[dtownsfinest]

Dog, the only thing WWE has going for it right now is Roman Reigns, they neutered The Hurt Business, they broke up The New Day. Xavier is doing nothing. Big E has a push coming soon, hopefully. Every black female wrestler just gets shyted on by their white counterparts.

It's just not a good product.

In regards to black wrestling though shit AEW is just as bad if not worse there. Hell I'd probably say they are worse because I don't see to many of their black wrestlers with titles.

 

[dtownsfinest]

No Vince likes a type... Are we sure Vince isn't bisexual?!?! Riddle doesn't fit that type, a middle/welterweight that doesn't have a lineage in wrestling doesn't fit that type. He'd have to go back to NXT to become champ

I think for Vince though Riddle fits that "kid angle". They see all types of possibilities from marketing to kids and he's one of the few wrestlers he has that can do that.

 

[c_commander]

WWE can have all that business shit, AEW is about having a better, more exciting product.

WWE hasn't been this exciting since they rounded up all these Indy guys and they've pretty much squandered them all to do "good business" and now the future of WWE product is starting to look really bleak.

They're going to keep cutting the younger Indy guys they should be making into stars and have Edge, Brock and Goldberg matches and one off Cena and Rock programs for the next 3-5 years.

AEW still has to learn how to produce a consistently good show on TV. And trim the fat so that some outstanding work by Danielson or Cole isn't followed by some random, amateur bullshit.
As for the WWE their prospects would look better if Vince was becoming more hands off rather than more hands on. With that it'll be more of the same trash that we've come to hate.

 

[XXXplosive]

I thought about that too. They just brought in for sure 2 main event guys in Punk and Bryan. Its only natural that they took two guys spots and two guys go a step down.

And I guess this is where WWE and other places go? Eventually guys will get disgruntled and I guess WWE will be there to pick them up?

At some point an AEW wrestler is going to jump to WWE, and you're right, it will likely be one of these guys who loses their spot as more ex-WWE guys get signed. Maybe someone like Hangman Paige?

 

[dtownsfinest]

At some point an AEW wrestler is going to jump to WWE, and you're right, it will likely be one of these guys who loses their spot as more ex-WWE guys get signed. Maybe someone like Hangman Paige?

Yeah and see I'm not familiar enough with the AEW talent that could possibly fail into that mold. From the exterior the guys that I could see making noise are all tied in with AEW or have no intention of going back to WWE.

WWE is fucked in that regard. For the time being anyway.

 

[dtownsfinest]

AEW still has to learn how to produce a consistently good show on TV. And trim the fat so that some outstanding work by Danielson or Cole isn't followed by some random, amateur bullshit.
As for the WWE their prospects would look better if Vince was becoming more hands off rather than more hands on. With that it'll be more of the same trash that we've come to hate.

There's a certain rawness from AEW that pays homage to 90's wrestling that just feels......fun. WWE just feels like a chore. They just are dropping the ball every single week. WWE got the production down pat they just need some proper booking.

Like where is their excitement? Where's their DX or NWO angle? They need something to bring energy back into the WWE. Its not going to knock on their door like Punk and Bryan did. Its not coming in the form of a wrestler. They need to do something they can't be content with this stale product.

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

In regards to black wrestling though shit AEW is just as bad if not worse there. Hell I'd probably say they are worse because I don't see to many of their black wrestlers with titles.

I don't think that's a fair assessment, tho. AEW is very much a new company and they do things different than WWE.

They seem to want the champions to have solid reigns. They don't have the championships changing hands like every 2-3 months like WWE does. And then they only have 4 titles.

And me personally, I don't want them to put a title on someone just because they're black either.

It'd be different if they had somebody like Jay Lethal or Elijah Burke, guys who are more of a complete package that they could instantly shoot to the top of the card. Now if WWE keeps fuckin' up (I'm confident they will) and lets Keith Lee go, he'll be that guy in AEW.

I don't think Scorpio is that guy (he was a tag champ, tho). Hobbs could be a monster champion one day, but Miro's killing that role right now. Lee Johnson's still developing under the Cody umbrella, but it was a good look that he got to main event Rampage.

I'm confident Ricky Starks will be a champion one day (a real champion, not FTW) and Private Party, probably after they get out of this whole Matt Hardy/Orange Cassidy vortex.

And they have a lot of brothers on Dark, so it's not like they're not scouting brothers.

Does anybody know of any prominent wrestlers in the indies that are black they haven't been scooped up by NXT, NWA or Impact?

 

[dtownsfinest]

I don't think that's a fair assessment, tho. AEW is very much a new company and they do things different than WWE.

They seem to want the champions to have solid reigns. They don't have the championships changing hands like every 2-3 months like WWE does. And then they only have 4 titles.

And me personally, I don't want them to put a title on someone just because they're black either.

It'd be different if they had somebody like Jay Lethal or Elijah Burke, guys who are more of a complete package that they could instantly shoot to the top of the card. Now if WWE keeps fuckin' up (I'm confident they will) and lets Keith Lee go, he'll be that guy in AEW.

I don't think Scorpio is that guy (he was a tag champ, tho). Hobbs could be a monster champion one day, but Miro's killing that role right now. Lee Johnson's still developing under the Cody umbrella, but it was a good look that he got to main event Rampage.

I'm confident Ricky Starks will be a champion one day (a real champion, not FTW) and Private Party, probably after they get out of this whole Matt Hardy/Orange Cassidy vortex.

And they have a lot of brothers on Dark, so it's not like they're not scouting brothers.

Does anybody know of any prominent wrestlers in the indies that are black they haven't been scooped up by NXT, NWA or Impact?

I don't watch AEW as much as you guys so I'm probably out of element. I just know when I tune in to their programming I don't see many black wrestlers on their programming. And I'm not saying they should put the title on someone just because their black I just don't see them on their programming. I know on that PPV last night I think I saw some black females but that's about it.

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

I don't watch AEW as much as you guys so I'm probably out of element. I just know when I tune in to their programming I don't see many black wrestlers on their programming. And I'm not saying they should put the title on someone just because their black I just don't see them on their programming. I know on that PPV last night I think I saw some black females but that's about it.

I thought they were building to Ricky Starks vs. Brian Cage for All Out, but I guess they're doing that match later.

Private Party and Dante Martin were on the Buy In pre-show, and then Scorpio was briefly in the Top Team promo during the PPV. Not a lot, but they got them in there.

 

[O.J PIMPSON]

Vince probably on the phone right now with The Undertaker asking if he's got one more run in him. LOL

Speak of the devil and he appears, Undertaker supposed to be on Smackdown this week!! Go play u some lotto numbers bruh!!!

 

[0utsyder]

In regards to black wrestling though shit AEW is just as bad if not worse there. Hell I'd probably say they are worse because I don't see to many of their black wrestlers with titles.

You're kidding right?!? Just the history of WWE alone is not even in the same solar system as AEW. Not to be an AEW apologist (even though @EPDC probably would call me one ) when they have a Slick, or the BookerT/HHH match and STILL losing clean then that will make sense.

But I am not expecting Scopio Sky to instantly be a champ, but include him in a credible storyline. Hell even Frankie Kazarian has a credible angle that he is working right now. I think the black talent they have right now put on good spots, but an overall consistent match(es) they might not be able to do. Acts like Private Party, Dante Martin and Powerhouse Hobbs can have highlight matches but the level of match that the Bucks put out, Kenny Omega or Brian Cage they aren't there yet and that is okay cause all of them are young compared to the people that I mentioned. But the difference between them being in AEW and in WWE. They're not going to be forgotten or buried. They'll be able to work, contribute or work a storyline while getting better.

 

[dtownsfinest]

I thought they were building to Ricky Starks vs. Brian Cage for All Out, but I guess they're doing that match later.

Private Party and Dante Martin were on the Buy In pre-show, and then Scorpio was briefly in the Top Team promo during the PPV. Not a lot, but they got them in there.

Yeah I mean that seems kind of lacking like we only on pre shows and promos? I'm sort of giving them the benefit of the doubt but I don't see any people of color main eventing anytime soon over there. They got some megastars over there. But like I said I don't really watch enough to say if they just not pushing guys I do remember about a week or two ago I saw Brandi Rhodes talking about the lack of people of color in the business and a lot of people seemed to say that's more so of a AEW problem than any other company.

 

[dtownsfinest]

You're kidding right?!? Just the history of WWE alone is not even in the same solar system as AEW. Not to be an AEW apologist (even though @EPDC probably would call me one ) when they have a Slick, or the BookerT/HHH match and STILL losing clean then that will make sense.

But I am not expecting Scopio Sky to instantly be a champ, but include him in a credible storyline. Hell even Frankie Kazarian has a credible angle that he is working right now. I think the black talent they have right now put on good spots, but an overall consistent match(es) they might not be able to do. Acts like Private Party, Dante Martin and Powerhouse Hobbs can have highlight matches but the level of match that the Bucks put out, Kenny Omega or Brian Cage they aren't there yet and that is okay cause all of them are young compared to the people that I mentioned. But the difference between them being in AEW and in WWE. They're not going to be forgotten or buried. They'll be able to work, contribute or work a storyline while getting better.

Oh I wasn't speaking on past WWE...hell I really wasn't even hyping up WWE at all it was more so an attack on what AEW had been putting out there. You won't get a argument tout of me about the WWE flaws. I'm not pro WWE at all and if it wasn't for watching ti growing up I probably wouldn't give a fuck about it. I can't imagine them bringing in new fans I don't know why the younger people would even want to watch. I can't imagine some 12 year old wanting to watch this shit but they do I guess....

Like with WWE I can see MVP and Lashley and I know I Can at least wonder where that goes even though they are fucking it up. When it comes to black people in AEW....I mean I kind of like Jade but I don't see much being offered as far as storyline.

 

[EPDC]

You're kidding right?!? Just the history of WWE alone is not even in the same solar system as AEW. Not to be an AEW apologist (even though @EPDC probably would call me one ) when they have a Slick, or the BookerT/HHH match and STILL losing clean then that will make sense.

But I am not expecting Scopio Sky to instantly be a champ, but include him in a credible storyline. Hell even Frankie Kazarian has a credible angle that he is working right now. I think the black talent they have right now put on good spots, but an overall consistent match(es) they might not be able to do. Acts like Private Party, Dante Martin and Powerhouse Hobbs can have highlight matches but the level of match that the Bucks put out, Kenny Omega or Brian Cage they aren't there yet and that is okay cause all of them are young compared to the people that I mentioned. But the difference between them being in AEW and in WWE. They're not going to be forgotten or buried. They'll be able to work, contribute or work a storyline while getting better.

WWE has a shitty history regarding the way they have presented Black wrestlers.

No one can doubt that.

You're playing "whataboutisms" though....

The topic is AEW.

AEW tried making it look like they were "better" than WWE in that regard, but look at AEWs list of champions since their inception. They have had as many Transgender champions as they have had Black Champions.

And their Black Talent is no where near the top of the card, seemingly forgotten for new toys and WWE castoffs that Tony Khan has been able to sign.

Where are AEWs Black wrestlers outside of a few women they sprinkle here and there to be fodder for their white talent?

AEW talked a good game early on but they became WWE lite. Now they are basically WWE without the McMahon family.

All that said, where is the first AEW Champion/Midcard Champion?

 

[Multi - Personality]

I really hope this doesn't bury the day one AEW talent. Cause when was the last time you saw Joey Janella? Him and the gay black dude seemed to have a feud going and then nothing, unless all that played out on Dark. This MMA/AEW with Scorpio Sky doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

While the day one AEW guys have feuds.... Most of them are still green like Sonny, Nyla and the like.

The long time Indy and WWE guys are there to help get them over while still having to bring in the casuals...

 

[XXXplosive]

Speak of the devil and he appears, Undertaker supposed to be on Smackdown this week!! Go play u some lotto numbers bruh!!!

Tell me you lying bruh. I said that shit half-joking

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

Tell me you lying bruh. I said that shit half-joking

It's not confirmed, but it wouldn't be surprising if they did.

 

[XXXplosive]

It's not confirmed, but it wouldn't be surprising if they did.

Who's next? Hulk Hogan? An Andre the Giant hologram???

 

[dtownsfinest]

WWE has a shitty history regarding the way they have presented Black wrestlers.

No one can doubt that.

You're playing "whataboutisms" though....

The topic is AEW.

AEW tried making it look like they were "better" than WWE in that regard, but look at AEWs list of champions since their inception. They have had as many Transgender champions as they have had Black Champions.

And their Black Talent is no where near the top of the card, seemingly forgotten for new toys and WWE castoffs that Tony Khan has been able to sign.

Where are AEWs Black wrestlers outside of a few women they sprinkle here and there to be fodder for their white talent?

AEW talked a good game early on but they became WWE lite. Now they are basically WWE without the McMahon family.

All that said, where is the first AEW Champion/Midcard Champion?

Ok I didn't think I was tripping lol. Like most of the dudes he brought up he even acknowledged they were in promos or undercards...that kinda goes with what I'm saying.

That's why I say they may be even worse. We have issues with WWE for their booking and even characters.......AEW ain't putting shit on their black talent.

 

[EPDC]

Ok I didn't think I was tripping lol. Like most of the dudes he brought up he even acknowledged they were in promos or undercards...that kinda goes with what I'm saying.

That's why I say they may be even worse. We have issues with WWE for their booking and even characters.......AEW ain't putting shit on their black talent.

WWE still has ways to go regarding how Black wrestlers are presented but shit, we had Black champions, on their top titles and mid card titles.

Look at WWEs recent history, say the last three years since AEW debuted.

Yes, WWE shitted on Kofi and Bianca the way they lost their titles, but they did have decent lasting runs.

They seem to have done right by Bobby Lashley and Sasha.

New Day is the most decorated Tag Team in WWE history.

Big E is on the cusp of taking the step to the next level.

Even lower midcard talent (Apollo Crews) have won their midcard titles.

AEW?

No Black talent is sniffing the top of the card and the TNT title isn't going to any of their midlevel Black talent anytime soon.

Their Women's division, yeah, none of their Black wrestlers are winning that any time in the near future. It will go back to a Japanese wrestler before a Black woman wins it.

 

[0utsyder]

WWE has a shitty history regarding the way they have presented Black wrestlers.

No one can doubt that.

You're playing "whataboutisms" though....

The topic is AEW.

AEW tried making it look like they were "better" than WWE in that regard, but look at AEWs list of champions since their inception. They have had as many Transgender champions as they have had Black Champions.

And their Black Talent is no where near the top of the card, seemingly forgotten for new toys and WWE castoffs that Tony Khan has been able to sign.

Where are AEWs Black wrestlers outside of a few women they sprinkle here and there to be fodder for their white talent?

AEW talked a good game early on but they became WWE lite. Now they are basically WWE without the McMahon family.

All that said, where is the first AEW Champion/Midcard Champion?

Not playing whatabout-ism as we were already compariing AEW to WWE if you follow the conversation.

You mention the women that they sprinkle, but it really has only been Red Velvet. Jade and Nyla doesn't make sense right now as all three are heels and trying to make a believable victory over them is kinda impossible epecially two times in a row in Nylas case.

Again NOT trying to be a apologist for AEW as I agree with your points. I just think you don't have any high ground to be on being more of a WWE fan.

 

[EPDC]

Not playing whatabout-ism as we were already compariing AEW to WWE if you follow the conversation.

You mention the women that they sprinkle, but it really has only been Red Velvet. Jade and Nyla doesn't make sense right now as all three are heels and trying to make a believable victory over them is kinda impossible epecially two times in a row in Nylas case.

Again NOT trying to be a apologist for AEW as I agree with your points. I just think you don't have any high ground to be on being more of a WWE fan.

Made my point regarding AEWs thoughts on Black women wrestlers.

And I'm a wrestling fan. Not necessarily a WWE fan.

 

[publicenemy]

Been watching rasslin since I was 9 years old, always favored Georgia Championship wrestling, NWA, WCW and so forth.
When Vince bought WCW I knew it was only a matter of time before the great collapse. When he fucked over Kofi with a 10 second loss, I quit watching and ain't look back, but I do check in this thread and watch AEW........................

 

[0utsyder]

Ok I didn't think I was tripping lol. Like most of the dudes he brought up he even acknowledged they were in promos or undercards...that kinda goes with what I'm saying.

That's why I say they may be even worse. We have issues with WWE for their booking and even characters.......AEW ain't putting shit on their black talent.

WWE still has ways to go regarding how Black wrestlers are presented but shit, we had Black champions, on their top titles and mid card titles.

Look at WWEs recent history, say the last three years since AEW debuted.

Yes, WWE shitted on Kofi and Bianca the way they lost their titles, but they did have decent lasting runs.

They seem to have done right by Bobby Lashley and Sasha.

New Day is the most decorated Tag Team in WWE history.

Big E is on the cusp of taking the step to the next level.

Even lower midcard talent (Apollo Crews) have won their midcard titles.

AEW?

No Black talent is sniffing the top of the card and the TNT title isn't going to any of their midlevel Black talent anytime soon.

Their Women's division, yeah, none of their Black wrestlers are winning that any time in the near future. It will go back to a Japanese wrestler before a Black woman wins it.

Again I AGREE with the lack of black talent getting pushes in AEW, but I can allow time to develop characters to get to that point. AEW doesn't have black talent (outside of Sky) the likes of a Chris Bey or a Jay Lethal. And if they put the talent they have in a match with Kenny Omega the same gripe that you have with the womens division you'd have with that match. Too green.

Invoking the tag titlles is like invoking Santa. Vince cares very little about the tag division especially in a division that is dominated by two "black" teams (black in quotes due to the Uso's)

They only do Sasha right when Charolette is injured. They just started giving Bobby love , but it took MVP putting himself out there to do it. Practically rehashing the same program that they ran with in Impact. Kofi's run was lasting but not decent with him against Kevin Owens and Dolph Ziggle.

 

[datboi]

Been watching rasslin since I was 9 years old, always favored Georgia Championship wrestling, NWA, WCW and so forth.
When Vince bought WCW I knew it was only a matter of time before the great collapse. When he fucked over Kofi with a 10 second loss, I quit watching and ain't look back, but I do check in this thread and watch AEW........................

I feel the same way but when Covid hit. Vince had to rely on his black stars to carry the company

Bobby Lashley, The Hurt Business, New Day members, Sasha Banks when healthy and Bianca
The Street Profits held the belts and don't forget the 24/7 champions . Also a comedian once said the Samoan just mean some more Africans. Roman Reigns and the Usos. Now they are back to live shows its like fuck them