Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says yes

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Art Vandelay

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Prosecute Torturers and Their Bosses

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
DEC. 21, 2014


Since the day President Obama took office, he has failed to bring to justice anyone responsible for the torture of terrorism suspects — an official government program conceived and carried out in the years after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

He did allow his Justice Department to investigate the C.I.A.'s destruction of videotapes of torture sessions and those who may have gone beyond the torture techniques authorized by President George W. Bush. But the investigation did not lead to any charges being filed, or even any accounting of why they were not filed.

Mr. Obama has said multiple times that “we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards,” as though the two were incompatible. They are not. The nation cannot move forward in any meaningful way without coming to terms, legally and morally, with the abhorrent acts that were authorized, given a false patina of legality, and committed by American men and women from the highest levels of government on down.

Americans have known about many of these acts for years, but the 524-page executive summary of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report erases any lingering doubt about their depravity and illegality: In addition to new revelations of sadistic tactics like “rectal feeding,” scores of detainees were waterboarded, hung by their wrists, confined in coffins, sleep-deprived, threatened with death or brutally beaten. In November 2002, one detainee who was chained to a concrete floor died of “suspected hypothermia.”

These are, simply, crimes. They are prohibited by federal law, which defines torture as the intentional infliction of “severe physical or mental pain or suffering.” They are also banned by the Convention Against Torture, the international treaty that the United States ratified in 1994 and that requires prosecution of any acts of torture.

So it is no wonder that today’s blinkered apologists are desperate to call these acts anything but torture, which they clearly were. As the report reveals, these claims fail for a simple reason: C.I.A. officials admitted at the time that what they intended to do was illegal.

In July 2002, C.I.A. lawyers told the Justice Department that the agency needed to use “more aggressive methods” of interrogation that would “otherwise be prohibited by the torture statute.” They asked the department to promise not to prosecute those who used these methods. When the department refused, they shopped around for the answer they wanted. They got it from the ideologically driven lawyers in the Office of Legal Counsel, who wrote memos fabricating a legal foundation for the methods. Government officials now rely on the memos as proof that they sought and received legal clearance for their actions. But the report changes the game: We now know that this reliance was not made in good faith.

No amount of legal pretzel logic can justify the behavior detailed in the report. Indeed, it is impossible to read it and conclude that no one can be held accountable. At the very least, Mr. Obama needs to authorize a full and independent criminal investigation.

The American Civil Liberties Union and Human Rights Watch are to give Attorney General Eric Holder Jr. a letter Monday calling for appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate what appears increasingly to be “a vast criminal conspiracy, under color of law, to commit torture and other serious crimes.”

The question everyone will want answered, of course, is: Who should be held accountable? That will depend on what an investigation finds, and as hard as it is to imagine Mr. Obama having the political courage to order a new investigation, it is harder to imagine a criminal probe of the actions of a former president.

But any credible investigation should include former Vice President Dick Cheney; Mr. Cheney’s chief of staff, David Addington; the former C.I.A. director George Tenet; and John Yoo and Jay Bybee, the Office of Legal Counsel lawyers who drafted what became known as the torture memos. There are many more names that could be considered, including Jose Rodriguez Jr., the C.I.A. official who ordered the destruction of the videotapes; the psychologists who devised the torture regimen; and the C.I.A. employees who carried out that regimen.

One would expect Republicans who have gone hoarse braying about Mr. Obama’s executive overreach to be the first to demand accountability, but with one notable exception, Senator John McCain, they have either fallen silent or actively defended the indefensible. They cannot even point to any results: Contrary to repeated claims by the C.I.A., the report concluded that “at no time” did any of these techniques yield intelligence that averted a terror attack. And at least 26 detainees were later determined to have been “wrongfully held.”

Starting a criminal investigation is not about payback; it is about ensuring that this never happens again and regaining the moral credibility to rebuke torture by other governments. Because of the Senate’s report, we now know the distance officials in the executive branch went to rationalize, and conceal, the crimes they wanted to commit. The question is whether the nation will stand by and allow the perpetrators of torture to have perpetual immunity for their actions.
 

Art Vandelay

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Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

Those with IQs above room temperature will be expected to recognize the difference between the words "will" and "should."
 

gene cisco

Not A BGOL Eunuch
BGOL Investor
Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

If you dig deep enough in the rabbit hole, you will find both democrats and republicans -- virtually most of Washington -- complicit in some manner.

Democrats caved way back in 2001 to shit that led to a helluvalot of fuckery. They also continued to vote to finance republican endeavors until public opinion switched.

In simple terms, Nazis can't try Nazis. Even if your hands aren't dirty, you looked the other way. People been talking about this shit for over a decade, yet they were called 'conspiracy nuts' while democrats did jack shit(aside from Cynthia and Dennis talking about the fuckery).

There is a reason SOME people call for Obama to be charged with war crimes just as they did with Bush(Cheney).
 
K

kwazdog

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Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

Not gonna happen, Dick is the Puppetmaster the "Don Dadda" if you will. He got more muscle than 5 presidents, He does whatever he wants.:smh:
 

Art Vandelay

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Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

If you dig deep enough in the rabbit hole, you will find both democrats and republicans -- virtually most of Washington -- complicit in some manner.

Democrats caved way back in 2001 to shit that led to a helluvalot of fuckery. They also continued to vote to finance republican endeavors until public opinion switched.

In simple terms, Nazis can't try Nazis. Even if your hands aren't dirty, you looked the other way. People been talking about this shit for over a decade, yet they were called 'conspiracy nuts' while democrats did jack shit(aside from Cynthia and Dennis talking about the fuckery).

There is a reason SOME people call for Obama to be charged with war crimes just as they did with Bush(Cheney).

I never thought I'd say this in 2008 but, sadly, I believe he should be.

You're right that fear of reciprocity is the main reason it won't happen. This is a pretty good piece exploring Obama's vulnerability in the war crimes department.

The Senate Drone Report of 2019: Looking Back on Washington's War on Terror
18 December 2019
By Tom Engelhardt, Truth-out.org


It was December 6, 2019, three years into a sagging Clinton presidency and a bitterly divided Congress. That day, the 500-page executive summary of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s long fought-over, much-delayed, heavily redacted report on the secret CIA drone wars and other American air campaigns in the 18-year-long war on terror was finally released. That day, committee chairman Ron Wyden (D-OR) took to the Senate floor, amid the warnings of his Republican colleagues that its release might “inflame” America’s enemies leading to violence across the Greater Middle East, and said:

“Over the past couple of weeks, I have gone through a great deal of introspection about whether to delay the release of this report to a later time. We are clearly in a period of turmoil and instability in many parts of the world. Unfortunately, that's going to continue for the foreseeable future, whether this report is released or not. There may never be the 'right' time to release it. The instability we see today will not be resolved in months or years. But this report is too important to shelve indefinitely. The simple fact is that the drone and air campaigns we have launched and pursued these last 18 years have proven to be a stain on our values and on our history.”​

Though it was a Friday afternoon, normally a dead zone for media attention, the response was instant and stunning. As had happened five years earlier with the committee’s similarly fought-over report on torture, it became a 24/7 media event. The “revelations” from the report poured out to a stunned nation. There were the CIA’s own figures on the hundreds of children in the backlands of Pakistan and Yemen killed by drone strikes against “terrorists” and “militants.” There were the “double-tap strikes” in which drones returned after initial attacks to go after rescuers of those buried in rubble or to take out the funerals of those previously slain. There were the CIA’s own statistics on the stunning numbers of unknown villagers killed for every significant and known figure targeted and finally taken out (1,147 dead in Pakistan for 41 men specifically targeted). There were the unexpected internal Agency discussions of the imprecision of the robotic weapons always publicly hailed as “surgically precise” (and also of the weakness of much of the intelligence that led them to their targets). There was the joking and commonplace use of dehumanizing language (“bug splat” for those killed) by the teams directing the drones. There were the “signature strikes,” or the targeting of groups of young men of military age about whom nothing specifically was known, and of course there was the raging argument that ensued in the media over the “effectiveness” of it all (including various emails from CIA officials admitting that drone campaigns in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Yemen had proven to be mechanisms not so much for destroying terrorists as for creating new ones).

There were the new tidbits of information on the workings of the president’s “kill list” and the convening of “terror Tuesday” briefings to target specific individuals around the world. There were the insider discussions of ongoing decisions to target American citizens abroad for assassination by drone without due process of law and the revealing emails in which participants up to presidential advisers discussed how exactly to craft the exculpatory “legal” documents for those acts at the Department of Justice.

Above all, to an unsuspecting nation, there was the shocking revelation that American air power had, in the course of those years, destroyed in whole or in part at least nine wedding parties, including brides, grooms, family members, and revelers, involving the deaths of hundreds of wedding goers in at least three countries of the Greater Middle East. This revelation shocked the nation, resulting in headlines ranging from the Washington Post’s sober “Wedding Tally Revealed” to the New York Post’s “Bride and Boom!”

But while all of that created headlines, the main debate was over the “effectiveness” of the White House’s and CIA’s drone campaigns. As Senator Wyden insisted that day in his speech:

“If you read the many case studies in the executive summary of our report, it will be unmistakable not only how ineffective American air power has been over these years, but how, for every ‘bad guy’ taken out, the air strikes were, in the end, a mechanism for the mass creation of terrorists and a continuing, powerful recruitment tool for jihadist and al-Qaeda-linked organizations across the Greater Middle East and Africa. If you doubt me, just count the jihadis in our world on September 10, 2001, and today in the areas of Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, and Somalia where our major drone campaigns have taken place, as well, of course, as in Iraq and Afghanistan. Then tell me with a straight face that they ‘worked.’”​

As with the 2014 torture report, so the responses of those deeply implicated in the drone assassination campaigns and the loosing of American air power more generally in the backlands of the planet put on display the full strength of the American national security state. It was no surprise, of course, when CIA Director David Petraeus (on his second tour of duty at the Agency) held the usual Langley, Virginia, news conference -- an unknown event until then-Director John Brennan first held one in December 2014 to dispute the Senate torture report. There, as the New York Times described it, Petraeus criticized the latest report for being “‘flawed,’ ‘partisan,’ and ‘frustrating,’ and pointed out numerous disagreements that he had with its damning conclusions about the CIA’s drone program.”

The real brunt of the attack, however, came from prominent former CIA officials, including former directors George Tenet (“You know, the image that’s been portrayed is we sat around the campfire and said, ‘Oh boy, now we go get to assassinate people.’ We don’t assassinate people. Let me say that again to you, we don’t assassinate people. O.K.?”); Mike Hayden (“If the world had acted as American air power has done in these years, many people who shouldn’t have gotten married wouldn’t have gotten married and the world would be a saner place for marriage.”); and Brennan himself (“Whatever your views are on our drone program, our nation and in particular this agency did a lot of things right during a difficult time to keep this country strong and secure and you should be thanking them, not undermining them.”). Hayden, Brennan, and national security, intelligence, and Pentagon officials also blanketed the news and the Sunday morning talk shows. Former CIA Director of Public Affairs Bill Harlow, who had set up the website ciasavedlives.com to defend the patriotic honor of the Agency at the time of the release of the Senate torture report, repeated the process five years later with the website dontdronethecia.com.

Former CIA Director Leon Panetta repeated his classic statement of 2009, insisting to a range of media interviewers that the drone campaign was not just “effective,” but still “the only game in town in terms of confronting or trying to disrupt the al-Qaeda leadership.” Former President Barack Obama did an interview with NBC News from his new presidential library, still under construction in Chicago, saying in part, “We assassinated some folks, but those who did so were American patriots working in a time of great stress and fear. Assassination may have been necessary and understandable in the moment, but it is not who we are.” And 78-year-old former Vice President Dick Cheney, who appeared on Fox News from his Wyoming ranch, insisted that the new Senate report, like the old one, was a “gob of unpatriotic hooey.” President Hillary Clinton, interviewed by BuzzFeed, said of the report, "One of the things that sets us apart from other countries is that when we make mistakes, we admit them." She did not, however, go on to admit that the still ongoing drone program or even the wedding air strikes were “mistakes.”

On December 11th, as everyone knows, the mass junior high school shootings in Wisconsin occurred and media attention quite understandably shifted there, 24/7. On December 13th, Reuters reported that a drone attack in Pakistan’s tribal borderlands, which was “suspected” of killing seven “militants,” including possibly an al-Qaeda sub-commander -- local residents reported that two children and a 70-year-old elder had been among the dead -- was the thousandth drone strike in the CIA’s secret wars in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia.

Running a Criminal Enterprise in Washington

It’s not 2019, of course. We don’t know whether Hillary Clinton will be elected president or Ron Wyden reelected to the Senate, no less whether he’ll become the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee in a body once again controlled by Democrats, or whether there will ever be a torture-report-style investigation of the “secret” drone assassination campaigns the White House, the CIA, and the U.S. military have been running across the backlands of the planet.

Still, count me among the surprised if, in 2019, some part or parts of the U.S. national security state and the White House aren’t still running drone campaigns that cross national borders with impunity, kill whomever those in Washington choose in “terror Tuesday” meetings or target in “signature strikes,” take out American citizens if it pleases the White House to do so, and generally continue to run what has proven to be a global war for (not on) terror.

When it comes to all of this “secret” but remarkably well-publicized behavior, as with the CIA’s torture program, the U.S. has been making up the future rules of the road for the rest of the world. It has created a gold standard for assassination and torture by green-lighting “rectal rehydration” (a euphemism for anal rape) and other grim acts. In the process, it has cooked up self-serving explanations and justifications for actions that would outrage official Washington and the public generally if any other country committed them.

This piece, of course, is not really about the future, but the past and what we should already know about it. What’s most remarkable about the Senate torture report is that -- except for the odd, grim detail like “rectal rehydration” -- we should never have needed it. Black sites, torture techniques, the abusing of innocents -- the essential information about the nightmarish Bermuda Triangle of injustice the Bush administration set up after 9/11 has been publicly available, in many instances for years.

Those “2019” revelations about drone assassination campaigns and other grim aspects of the loosing of American air power in the Greater Middle East have been on the public record for years, too. In truth, we shouldn’t be in any doubt about much of what’s billed as “secret” in our American world. And the lessons to be drawn from those secret acts should be obvious enough without spending another $40 million and studying yet more millions of classified documents for years.

Here are three conclusions that should now be obvious enough when it comes to Washington’s never-ending war on terror and the growth of the national security state.

1. Whatever grim actions are the focus of debate at the moment, take it for granted that they don’t “work” because nothing connected to the war on terror has worked. The coverage of the Senate torture report has been focused on arguments over whether those “enhanced interrogation techniques,” or EITs, “worked” in the years after 9/11 (as in 2019, the coverage would undoubtedly focus on whether drone assassination campaigns had worked). The executive summary of the Senate report has already offered numerous cases where information gained through torture practices did not produce actionable intelligence or stop terror plots or save lives, though misinformation from them might have helped embolden the Bush administration in its invasion of Iraq.

Bush administration officials, former CIA directors, and the intelligence “community” in general have vociferously insisted on the opposite. Six former top CIA officials, including three former directors, publicly claimed that those torture techniques “saved thousands of lives.” The truth, however, is that we shouldn’t even be having a serious discussion of this issue. We know the answer. We knew it long before the redacted executive summary of the Senate report was released. Torture didn’t work, because 13 years of the war on terror has offered a simple enough lesson: nothing worked.

You name it and it failed. It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about invasions, occupations, interventions, small conflicts, raids, bombing runs, secret operations, offshore “black sites,” or god knows what else -- none of it came close to succeeding by even the most minimal standards set in Washington. In this period, many grim things were done and most of them blew back, creating more enemies, new Islamic extremist movements, and even a jihadist mini-state in the heart of the Middle East that, fittingly enough, was essentially founded at Camp Bucca, an American military prison in Iraq. Let me repeat that: if Washington did it any time in the last 13 years, whatever it was, it didn’t work. Period.

2. In national security and war terms, only one thing has “worked” in these years and that’s the national security state itself. Every blunder, every disaster, every extreme act that proved a horror in the world also perversely strengthened the national security state. In other words, the crew that couldn’t shoot straight could do no wrong when it came to their own agencies and careers.

No matter how poorly or badly or stupidly or immorally or criminally agents, operatives, war fighters, private contractors, and high officials acted or what they ordered done, each disaster in this period was like a dose of further career enhancement, like manna from heaven, for a structure that ate taxpayer dollars for lunch and grew in unprecedented ways, despite a world that lacked all significant enemies. In these years, the national security state entrenched itself and its methods in Washington for the long run. The Department of Homeland Security expanded; the 17 interlocked intelligence agencies that made up the U.S. intelligence community exploded; the Pentagon grew endlessly; the corporate “complexes” that surrounded and meshed with an increasingly privatized national security apparatus had a field day. And the various officials who oversaw every botched operation and sally into the world, including the torture regime the Bush administration created, were almost to a man promoted, as well as honored in various ways and, in retirement, found themselves further honored and enriched. The single lesson from all of this for any official was: whatever you do, however rash, extreme, or dumb beyond imagining, whatever you don’t accomplish, whomever you hurt, you are enriching the national security state -- and that’s a good thing.

3. Nothing Washington did could ever qualify as a “war crime” or even a straightforward crime because, in national security terms, our wartime capital has become a crime-free zone. Again, this is an obvious fact of our era. There can be no accountability (hence all the promotions) and especially no criminal accountability inside the national security state. While the rest of us are still in legal America, its officials are in what I’ve long called “post-legal” America and in that state, neither torture (to the point of death), nor kidnapping and assassination, nor destroying evidence of criminal activity, perjury, or the setting up of an extralegal prison system are crimes. The only possible crime in national security Washington is whistleblowing. On this, too, the evidence is in and the results speak for themselves. The post-9/11 moment has proven to be an eternal “get out of jail free card” for the officials of two administrations and the national security state.

Unfortunately, the obvious points, the simple conclusions that might be drawn from the last 13 years go unnoticed in a Washington where nothing, it seems, can be learned. As a result, for all the sound and fury of this torture moment, the national security state will only grow stronger, more organized, more aggressively ready to defend itself, while ridding itself of the last vestiges of democratic oversight and control.

There is only one winner in the war on terror and it’s the national security state itself. So let’s be clear, despite its supporters who regularly hail the "patriotism" of such officials, and despite an increasingly grim world filled with bad guys, they are not the good guys and they are running what, by any normal standards, should be considered a criminal enterprise.

See you in 2019.


 

Ming Fei Hong

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BGOL Investor
Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

Obama can never prosecute Bush/Cheney for shit, because a lot of the shit they set in motion continued on his watch.
 

ORIGINAL NATION

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BGOL Investor
Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

Yes Dick Cheney is one of the puppet masters. But blacks are being plotted on right now and set up for a great extermination program weather they know it or not. There was no one arrested for the genocide against blacks in Libya under Obama. The same as Botha was never prosecuted for the genocide against blacks in South Africa (their own country). CNN stated that Botha was going to be brought up on charges of genocide. But that was a smoke screen, because they had Farrakhan on and he had stated about the double standard. Botha killed thousands of blacks in South Africa every day. And Wendy Mandel had been fighting for the liberation of blacks for countless years. Yet she was bought up on felony charges. Yet Botha get richer and no charges what so ever. So they claimed they were bringing him up on genocide charges as a smoke screen.
Blacks got to learn we got to build some power of our own. If a person or some family or people have a house and you live with them. Then you got to live by their rules. But if you go and get your own house. Then you live by your own rules. And you do what you want in your own house. The so called founding fathers of America and all white countries were masons. The so called 10 percent that know the truth but practice it in secrecy and are sworn to secrecy. The blood suckers of the poor. They are just like the contractors we have now, that come in and rape and do all the developing. Just like Jim Jones in Jonestown. And just like the plantation owners during slavery. Do what they want because they are real men, everybody else is gays and lesbians.
Obama is a major puppet just like they did with Nelson M. Giving people hope in a white man's world. Instead of real freedom. Black South Africa wanted their country back and the wealth of the resources of South Africa. It is foolish to think they just wanted the right to vote. They pulled the wool over the eyes of the masses. And went under covers to continue the genocide of blacks. As long as we trust in them supposedly knowing what is best for us we are doomed. They get control and rich and the masses get brainwashed and choked out.
There is a real threat of a black leader than can rise up and bring total recall to the masses of blacks. And that will cause blacks to wake up and stop being carbon copies of devils (whites)


http://oneblacknation.webs.com/

http://blacknation.vpweb.com/default.html
 

havelcok

Rising Star
Platinum Member
Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

only african and eastern european dictators get prosecuted for their crimes.

Anyway Obama wont do it, it opens the way for him and his people to
be hauled in for all those murders they have committed using drones
 

gene cisco

Not A BGOL Eunuch
BGOL Investor
Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

I never thought I'd say this in 2008 but, sadly, I believe he should be.

You're right that fear of reciprocity is the main reason it won't happen. This is a pretty good piece exploring Obama's vulnerability in the war crimes department.

The signs were there. During his Senate campaign, he lied when he said he wouldn't fund Bush's war. He also supported the Patriot Act. Although against aggression in Iraq, he was for it in Afghanistan.

So by supporting Iraq aggression with a funding vote, he was already complicit to some of the fuckery Bush was doing. Remember, there were some politicians who stood by their word and never voted to support Bush's fuckery. Of course, those people would never be in line for a promotion to President.

Hillary should have never worked in politics again after being involved in giving Bush power in 2001, but look how her career has been rewarded.

All these people would be in the bing if they were judged impartially in an international court.
 

Maxxam

Rising Star
Platinum Member
Re: Should President Obama prosecute former Vice President Dick Cheney? NY Times says

Obama can never prosecute Bush/Cheney for shit, because a lot of the shit they set in motion continued on his watch.

:yes::smh:

His expansion of the drone program is :smh:... they admit they have no clue who they're killing a lot of the time. 1000+ killed for 40 targets :smh: Killing american citizen, Awlaki, with no due process and then killing his teenage son in a separate strike... Obama has plenty of fuckery during his watch

I'm sure its worse than we know and that's a reason Obama stands by Brennan and Clapper even though they've both flat out lied about spying on the senate committee and Americans respectively.

As noted, he should charge them but he won't.
 

Costanza

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"In our nation's 248-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him.

He can never be trusted with power again.

As citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship to defend our Constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris."
 

Costanza

Rising Star
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I wonder if this endorsement is in that 2000 page thread?

:beer:

I don't keep up with it because it is mostly a collection of tweets and no good conversation going on...

But I imagine it was, with several celebratory "YASS QUEEN" tweets posted from accounts like Kamala Wins.
 

BlackRob

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
wOW, I mean. I understand but.
Kamala had to put the words "well respected" in there??
damn

Edit: whoa, she said "honored" to have their endorsement.

 

Don Coreleone

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"In our nation's 248-year history, there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than Donald Trump. He tried to steal the last election using lies and violence to keep himself in power after the voters had rejected him.

He can never be trusted with power again.

As citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship to defend our Constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris."

This is the same guy who basically got us in several wars we should have never been in and was an advocate of the Unitary executive theory. If he's for Kamala Harris that's probably not a good thing.


 

Costanza

Rising Star
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The parties are not the same though…?

:roflmao3:

They aren’t the same, that’s ignorant.

Too many Democrats have Republican tendencies.

But look at the SCOTUS picks under Trump vs Biden. Harris will be drastically different from Trump in many important areas.
 
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