Trump HHS nominee Robert F Kennedy Jr
- Thread starter Costanza
- Start date
That’s not a strawman, it’s an analogy that shows why your philosophy is flawed.
Strawman- A straw man is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone argues against a position that is different from the one being debated.
My analogy addresses the very core of your premise. It is an extreme example, yes, but it is 100% based on the position you laid out.
Strawman distorts and exaggerates then argues against the exaggeration ie Hitler
Stop it.
Strawman distorts and exaggerates then argues against the exaggeration ie Hitler
Stop it.
What’s the distortion?
You use the examples of Adolf Hitler and a homeless bum.....then ask me what is the distortion.Awww man you all are something today.
Awww man you all are something today.
Not a distortion. Extreme examples to make the point clear. It is perfectly in line with your overall statement about qualifications. No distortion, perfectly honest.
Strawman distorts and exaggerates then argues against the exaggeration ie Hitler
Stop it.
You don't have to be an expert in something
To get the job done ..
Just be a delegator..
You think a CEO has to master all depts
In his company to be successful..
Or just hire the right people..
Bro you team Fauchi aren't ya??
Fuck that guy and everything he stands for!!
He has roughly the same qualifications as almost all previous HHS Secretaries of the past 20 years
And he is going in there like there is a new sheriff in town.....
He has roughly the same qualifications as almost all previous HHS Secretaries of the past 20 years
Homeboy needs to listen and learn instead of thinking that he is the smartest person in the room
He will fail if he does not.
How many secretaries said they are going to remove whole sections of the FDA? As if he knows the first thing about what the FDA actually does....
He is a moron
At the level that he will be at and with the bullshit ideas he has.....you need to be an expert.
The dumbass decisions he makes like wanting to stop drug development for 8 years will set humanity back for generations
The reason why your "anology" is off is because the hypothetical has no basis in reality.
Hitler ain't coming and no one is electing a homeless bum.
Ask a real question that has some practicality or else your simply talking noise.
Neither FDA or Big Pharma
Where has he publicly said he wants to stop drug development for 8 years?
All I hear him repeatedly state is he wants to cut the chemical additives and hfcs in food and ban big pharma commercials......."bullshit ideas" that are standard practice in Europe.
C mon bruh you have to pay attention before you argue a point.
You re up here championing this dude and don't even know what he is on.
Medical???
Bruh I m a physician.
My son is not a teenager. In Gladiator II it is implied that one of the characters has lost his mind because of syphilis. I explained to him about the US government’s 40 year old torture program that harmed African Americans. I don’t care about the worms and I don’t care about the bears. I care about the intentional harm of black people in the name of science.
And there definitely was intentional harm. And to this day the health industry has its demons...
But when you have a jackass talking about being lax on vaccines like the measles
...or stopping drug development because he read something online written by someone's cousins mother's sister's dog's goldfish all in the name of anti-establishment
There is a major problem.
Is it true many doctors got pay bumps
For covid related illnesses and deaths..
During the pandemic??
A lot of doctors got furloughed during the pandemic
You refuse to engage with the hypothetical because of you did engage, it would reveal that YOU were the person just talking noise.
You KNOW that the homeless person would be better than the more qualified person. I could pick 100 different examples. Sometimes a better outcome is achievable through a less qualified person when the qualified person is evil.
We aren't talking about Hitler or a more evil person....
We are talking about the unqualified running the nation's health.
What you are failing to acknowledge is that a novice has a limitation that shouldn't be flirted with or you get an unqualified man who gets into power and ignores all of the warnings they tell him about pandemic preparedness....
He then goes in and allows the gain of function labs to continue simply because he doesn't like the black dude who was before him who shut the shit down.....
3 years later he almost destroys the world with a once in a lifetime pandemic.....
Novice and unqualified just like the dude in the title of this thread you started
NIH Lifts Funding Pause on Gain-of-Function Research
Today, the National Institutes of Health announced that it is lifting a funding pause dating back to October 2014 on gain-of-function (GOF) experiments involving influenza, SARS, and MERS viruses.
He does this often. Its his go to strategy. Ignores present facts and presents horrendous analogies to prop new arguments to defend his already failed one. He really cant argue on the merits so he creates parallel ones using ridiculous extremes in order to force thru a failed point hes attempting to make.
Which is unnecessary unless he is simply trying to be right and not simply come in to legitimately argue a point......
Adding extremes then trying to call them an analogy is ridiculous
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@code_pirahna - I plugged our entire conversation into Chat GPT via a Word document and the command "evaluate the arguments" to see what it would say. I acknowledge my hypothetical was extreme but I disagree with it being called irrelevant, since it is clearly relevant to this discussion. (You might think it is a bad example but I would think even you would admit it is relevant to this discussion.) Also, it was not intended as a realistic example.
Of course, I agree with the critique of you for not engaging with the intended principle behind the analogy.
I did not expect a critique of Polis as well, lol.
Here is the response I got:
The debate contains multiple arguments with a mix of valid points and logical fallacies. Below is an evaluation of key aspects of the arguments:
Of course, I agree with the critique of you for not engaging with the intended principle behind the analogy.
I did not expect a critique of Polis as well, lol.
Here is the response I got:
The debate contains multiple arguments with a mix of valid points and logical fallacies. Below is an evaluation of key aspects of the arguments:
Costanza’s Argument
- Point: RFK Jr. could be both a disaster and achieve good outcomes.
- Strengths: Acknowledges uncertainty and the potential for both risks and rewards in appointing RFK Jr. Highlights issues such as processed foods and chemicals that are under-addressed.
- Weaknesses: Fails to substantiate why RFK Jr.’s positive contributions would outweigh the risks from his controversial stances, such as on vaccines.
- Point: Outcomes matter more than qualifications.
- Strengths: This pragmatic perspective focuses on results rather than credentials, which can sometimes lead to effective governance.
- Weaknesses: Over-simplifies the value of qualifications, as lack of expertise can lead to misguided policies, even with good intentions.
- Use of extreme analogy (Hitler vs. homeless person).
- Strengths: Dramatically illustrates the idea that character and intent can outweigh qualifications in extreme scenarios.
- Weaknesses: Misapplies the analogy, as it lacks realism and distracts from the main debate. This could alienate the audience and weaken Costanza’s credibility.
Polis’s Argument
- Point: RFK Jr. could improve public health by challenging big pharma, corporate agriculture, and unhealthy practices.
- Strengths: Provides specific examples of RFK Jr.’s stated goals, such as capping drug prices, addressing pesticides, and reforming FDA’s nutrition department. Highlights areas where the status quo has failed.
- Weaknesses: Assumes RFK Jr. will prioritize these reforms effectively despite his controversial history. Omits discussion on how his conspiracy-prone behavior could undermine credibility or harm public trust.
code_pirahna’s Argument
- Point: Questions RFK Jr.’s expertise and credibility.
- Strengths: Raises valid concerns about qualifications and the need for evidence-based decision-making in a critical role like HHS Secretary.
- Weaknesses: Fails to engage with Costanza’s broader argument on outcomes over qualifications. Uses inflammatory language that undermines the tone of the debate.
- Rejection of the Hitler analogy.
- Strengths: Correctly identifies the hypothetical as impractical and unproductive.
- Weaknesses: Does not effectively counter Costanza’s underlying point about balancing qualifications with moral character and intent.
Logical Fallacies
- Costanza:
- Misuses analogies by introducing extreme, irrelevant examples (Hitler vs. homeless person).
- Ad hominem attack: Dismisses Matt Gaetz as an “unqualified piece of shit” rather than addressing specific concerns about his policies or track record.
- code_pirahna:
- Straw man: Falsely claims Costanza’s analogy distorts reality without engaging with its intended principle.
- Use of derogatory language diminishes credibility and derails constructive discussion.
Recommendations for Improvement
- Costanza: Ground arguments in practical examples and provide evidence for why RFK Jr.’s potential positives outweigh his negatives.
- code_pirahna: Avoid inflammatory remarks and engage with the actual argument rather than dismissing analogies outright.
- Polis: Strengthen claims by addressing RFK Jr.’s weaknesses and explaining how they could be mitigated.
How do these work for you @code_pirahna? (I don't think these examples are any better than mine, just less extreme.)
Here are two more reasonable analogies to make Costanza’s point about outcomes mattering more than qualifications:
Analogy: Winston Churchill vs. Neville Chamberlain in WWII
- Neville Chamberlain was a highly experienced politician with extensive diplomatic credentials, but his policies of appeasement toward Nazi Germany arguably contributed to worsening the threat of war.
- Winston Churchill, on the other hand, was seen by many as reckless and controversial before WWII, with a mixed record in previous leadership roles. However, his leadership during the war rallied the nation and is widely credited with helping secure victory against the Axis powers.
Analogy: Abraham Lincoln vs. James Buchanan
- James Buchanan, who served before Lincoln, was one of the most experienced presidents in American history, having been a Congressman, Senator, Secretary of State, and Ambassador. Despite his extensive qualifications, his indecisiveness and failure to address the escalating tensions over slavery contributed to the outbreak of the Civil War.
- Abraham Lincoln, on the other hand, entered the presidency with far less political experience. He had served only one term in Congress and was largely seen as untested at the national level. Yet, his leadership during the Civil War and his commitment to preserving the Union and ending slavery cemented his legacy as one of the greatest American presidents.
The issue is not simply unqualified although the chance of a fuck up is increased tremendously with the unqualitlfied....
The problem is that RFK Jr thinks he knows everything and wants to make rash changes based on his ignorance.
Just like Trump causing COVID......I ll repeat it... Just like Trump causing COVID through his mishandling of the gain of function labs.....
RFK Jr is going to cause even more problems
@Costanza you still haven't addressed this.We aren't talking about Hitler or a more evil person....
We are talking about the unqualified running the nation's health.
What you are failing to acknowledge is that a novice has a limitation that shouldn't be flirted with or you get an unqualified man who gets into power and ignores all of the warnings they tell him about pandemic preparedness....
He then goes in and allows the gain of function labs to continue simply because he doesn't like the black dude who was before him who shut the shit down.....
3 years later he almost destroys the world with a once in a lifetime pandemic.....
Novice and unqualified just like the dude in the title of this thread you started
NIH Lifts Funding Pause on Gain-of-Function Research
Today, the National Institutes of Health announced that it is lifting a funding pause dating back to October 2014 on gain-of-function (GOF) experiments involving influenza, SARS, and MERS viruses.www.nih.gov
Robert Senior once tried to lecture James Baldwin on being black in America.
I am not surprised. The Kennedys think they know everything.
Or....he can change public health for the better. Take the good with the bad, right?
Literally been telling you this for years.. Hopefully you believe it now that it comes from a white adjacent AI's perspective.
Aint shit good about dude.....da fuck you talking about
And you still didn't address him halting drug development for 8 years.