Joe Budden says LeBron James played against better competition than Michael Jordan

[vandamation]

I respectfully disagree... In fact... I believe Bill Laimbeer would be better suited for today's game. Laimbeer was a pick and pop big with 3pt range. He wouldn't be allowed to do all of that fouling but at the same time let's not act like these guys can't adjust to today's game. I watched a lot of Pistons games and Laimbeer was one of my favorite players. That dude was not a post up big. He did his damage from the top of the key and beyond... Laimbeer could shoot and in today's game, Bigs really need to shoot.

With all of that being said...

GIL IS A FOOL...

 

[Walter Panov]

 

[THREAD_CRITIC]

NBA today is barely watchable

 

[wwetv100]

Fellow rapper take on LeBron and MJ

 

[Gods_Debris]

Couldn’t shoot for shit? Motherfucking centers had consistent 15 foot jump shots back than.. Ewing, Hakeem, admiral, kareem just to name a few.. powerfowards Malone, barkley, Oakley etc had jumpshots.. they actually had fundamentals.. nigs had post games, jumpshots, fadeaway, bank shots, knew how to pass… big men don’t even know how to post up now..they took the center position out the all star game cause that’s how garbage that position has become.. there literally 5 positions in basketball and the league got so garbage they got rid of 1 smh

Them cats was mostly pfs in todays league though, right? Am I buggin?

 

[The Plutonian]

Isaiah Thomas beat, bird, magic kareem and Jordan to win his chips.

Zeke also said the players of his era couldn't do shit to People Like Bron, Giannis, etc. Guys today are faster, bigger and stronger. Mfs talk shit about Isaiah but he was a balling mf.

 

[Gods_Debris]

If you can make a logical case for more than one person being the GOAT of their sport, or field, then there is nothing to debate.

Anything other than stating why you think X player is better than Y - or Z, A, B, C, or D, depending on how many legit candidates there are - you're just arguing your preference.

After so many attempts at arguing your preference, you appear to be nothing more than someone who has based his self-worth on someone else's accomplishments. It's a little disturbing that you can't allow anyone to publicly declare anyone else is greater than the individual you've determined is the GOAT.

Like, seriously think about it: How you can be repeatedly triggered by someone saying X player is better than Y?

Damn, treally though.

 

[wwetv100]

I agree with Joe... That's why he lost as much as he did.

Man listen... I AM A LEBRON SUPER FAN...

BUT... Here's the difference between LeBron and MJ...

Lebron played against the competition.

MJ DESTROYED the competition.

Case closed

I never forget when Kobe said this though comparing old school and new school.


Another difference with today and yesteryear.



My thing is "all time greats" are called all time greats for a reason. They would be able to adapt in any generation which also includes LeBron in the 80s and 90s. It comes down to has more heart and determination to be the absolute number one and champion.

 

[SWATLANTA]

Adam silver and the NBA has done everything in their power to remove the physicality of the game so that it is more pleasant to watch for casuals. Removing physicality and eliminating the ability to play effective defense (not fouling, but actually using your physical gifts and intelligence to stop or hinder players). The byproduct is non competitive, whiny, soft mofos who think they are better than they are glorifying passive play. The All-Star game was one of the most embarrassing examples of non competitive basketball that has ever been played. One of the main reasons L6bron is even in the GOAT convo is because the "everybody gets a trophy" generation glorifies stats over winning. How is a man a GOAT when he hasn't even dominated his era...An argument can be made that Steph is the king of this era even though it was during Lebron's prime.

 

[hardawayz16]

BUT... Here's the difference between LeBron and MJ...

Lebron played against the competition.

MJ DESTROYED the competition.

Lebron & KD JOINED the competition

 

[RoadRage]

I agree with Joe... That's why he lost as much as he did.

Man listen... I AM A LEBRON SUPER FAN...

BUT... Here's the difference between LeBron and MJ...

Lebron played against the competition.

MJ DESTROYED the competition.

Case closed

Did he destroy the comp when they were healthy and in their prime or did he start dominating and winning when they all got old injured and retired?
Zeke
Magic
Bird
Kareem
McKale
Dummars

 

[wwetv100]

Lebron & KD JOINED the competition

Honestly, that is the thing that always stands out in my head with these conversations.

No way in hell is Magic going to join Bird or vice versa regardless of individual stats etc. It just was not going to happen with their competitive nature. If "you can't beat em join em" is something nobody can really argue for.

I tried to think of other equivalents in sports who have done this.

 

[RoadRage]

Lebron & KD JOINED the competition

Different era, now everyone is doing it, just the way after free agency in baseball, in order to win you have to sign players, when prior to the 70's everyone stayed on one team.
In todays game, no team stays intact for over five years, if you do your team aint going to win shit, no matter who you have on your team.

 

[RoadRage]

Honestly, that is the thing that always stands out in my head with these conversations.

No way in hell is Magic going to join Bird or vice versa regardless of individual stats etc. It just was not going to happen with their competitive nature. If "you can't beat em join em" is something nobody can really argue for.

I tried to think of other equivalents in sports who have done this.

No way Al Kaline would have joined the Yankees, so does this make him better than Reggie Jackson? No, because they played in two different eras, where things were totally different.
The only way this argument would actually make sense is if only KD and LeBron were doing it today, nah, every team is doing it and only the ones that do it correctly are the ones that are winning. Same thing with free agency in baseball and football.

 

[SWATLANTA]

Did he destroy the comp when they were healthy and in their prime or did he start dominating and winning when they all got old injured and retired?
Zeke
Magic
Bird
Kareem
McKale
Dummars

MJ was drafted to the worst team in basketball and started on his ascent as those dynasties were at their peaks(in the 80's). He damn sure didn't call up Domonique and Charles because he was getting his ass kicked. He got in the lab and got better...when Jordan got over the hump vs the Pistons, Zeke was 29, Dumars in his 5th yr, Rodman and Salley in their 4th years, Aguire in his 9th year...When they beat the Lakers, Magic was the 2 time MVP and finished 2nd that year to Mike. And once MJ ascended to the throne, he kept his foot in everybody's ass. Nobody else ate...

 

[hardawayz16]

Different era

Yes and this is why I don't take these debates seriously.

The biggest reason its more competitive now is the stars are all teaming up to compete against other players teaming up, a trend which was started by Bron.

The two top teams east and west - Celtics and Nuggets, who ironically haven't chased superstar free agents......do you think either of them are beating a 90's Jordan lead team in 7 games?

 

[BGLR1212000]

Couldn’t shoot for shit? Motherfucking centers had consistent 15 foot jump shots back than.. Ewing, Hakeem, admiral, kareem just to name a few.. powerfowards Malone, barkley, Oakley etc had jumpshots.. they actually had fundamentals.. nigs had post games, jumpshots, fadeaway, bank shots, knew how to pass… big men don’t even know how to post up now..they took the center position out the all star game cause that’s how garbage that position has become.. there literally 5 positions in basketball and the league got so garbage they got rid of 1 smh

Fam are you a basketball fan?

 

[RoadRage]

MJ was drafted to the worst team in basketball and started on his ascent as those dynasties were at their peaks(in the 80's). He damn sure didn't call up Domonique and Charles because he was getting his ass kicked. He got in the lab and got better...when Jordan got over the hump vs the Pistons, Zeke was 29, Dumars in his 5th yr, Rodman and Salley in their 4th years, Aguire in his 9th year...When they beat the Lakers, Magic was the 2 time MVP and finished 2nd that year to Mike. And once MJ ascended to the throne, he kept his foot in everybody's ass. Nobody else ate...

Most first-round picks are drafted to the worst teams, don't you know how the lottery works? So stop embellishing the story in order to make your special.
But they beat the Pistons when they were old and injured (look how many playoff games they won after), and they beat a old Laker team without Kareem and Magic coming back after being out with H.I.V. and was a shell of himself.
This would be like someone like Zach Lavine winning 6 championships in a row after LeBron, Curry, K.D., Antetokounmpo and Lillard retired or got old.

 

[RoadRage]

Yes and this is why I don't take these debates seriously.

The biggest reason its more competitive now is the stars are all teaming up to compete against other players teaming up, a trend which was started by Bron.

The two top teams east and west - Celtics and Nuggets, who ironically haven't chased superstar free agents......do you think either of them are beating a 90's Jordan lead team in 7 games?

LeBron started this trend, how quickly do we forget the Laker's dream team with Karl Malone and Payton, or what about Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett?

 

[TIMEISMONEY]

Suns best record in the league 62-20.. best offense in the league average 113.4 points a game… 7 players averaged double digit points per game.. barkley was that yrs mvp.. Dan marle had broke the single season record in 3 pointers that yr and led the league in 3 points.. you had Kevin Johnson a pg that could shoot, go straight to the hole, dish out and put up double doubles in points and assist any given night… Richard dumas a rookie sensation who average 16+ a night and could put up 20+ points any given night.. Nobody seems to remember this.. they also seem to forget pippen average less than 20 points a night.. Horace grant average less than 15 points a night.. so the second and 3rd best scorer on the bulls average less than 33 points combined.. which means what? Who had to carry the scoring load for that team when they had to battle that offense assault of the suns? Oh yeah that number 23 guy.. these are the facts nobody wants you to know especially if you just a YouTube/ google nig that didn’t watch the games back than

People also like to conveniently forget about the defense that was allowed to be played in those days versus today. You could tackle dudes going to the hole back then, you can’t sneeze on these dudes today. There’s literally no defense being played today. So how good are these players today.

 

[SWATLANTA]

Most first-round picks are drafted to the worst teams, don't you know how the lottery works? So stop embellishing the story in order to make your special.
But they beat the Pistons when they were old and injured (look how many playoff games they won after), and they beat a old Laker team without Kareem and Magic coming back after being out with H.I.V. and was a shell of himself.
This would be like someone like Zach Lavine winning 6 championships in a row after LeBron, Curry, K.D., Antetokounmpo and Lillard retired or got old.

How old are you ? Seriously, not trying to insult, I can just tell that you are off on your narratives. I gave context to MJ getting his ass handed to him by Dynastic squads and not skipping the grind because he was weak minded. I gave you the ages for Zeke (29) and crew, their core wasn't old they just got beat. The Lakers were 58-24 and Magic had just won back to back NBA MVP awards (they won 60+ the previous year). He didn't leave the NBA until the following year (92) due to HIV....

 

[RoadRage]

People also like to conveniently forget about the defense that was allowed to be played in those days versus today. You could tackle dudes going to the hole back then, you can’t sneeze on these dudes today. There’s literally no defense being played today. So how good are these players today.

But as Arenas stated, only the bad defenders had to resort to playing dirty, and most of them were out-of-shape drunks who couldn't last in the G league today. Plus their cheating didn't work back then so how is it supposed to work on bigger faster players of today who are all able to hit the outside jumper?

 

[RoadRage]

How old are you ? Seriously, not trying to insult, I can just tell that you are off on your narratives. I gave context to MJ getting his ass handed to him by Dynastic squads and not skipping the grind because he was weak minded. I gave you the ages for Zeke (29) and crew, their core wasn't old they just got beat. The Lakers were 58-24 and Magic had just won back to back NBA MVP awards (they won 60+ the previous year). He didn't leave the NBA until the following year (92) due to HIV....

All I said was that Piston team wad done, just like the Celtic team after the Heat beat them. Once a team is done, you can tell by the fact that they are no longer a threat and usually disbands. But after beating the crap out of the Bulls for almost 5 years straight, once they lost to them, they were finished as a power house team, go back to the record books yourself and look.

 

[hardawayz16]

LeBron started this trend, how quickly do we forget the Laker's dream team with Karl Malone and Payton, or what about Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett?

Malone played one season, at 40, with the Lakers before retiring. Ray Allen and KG were traded to Boston, and neither demanded to be traded there behind the scenes (as far as I know).

 

[RoadRage]

People also like to conveniently forget about the defense that was allowed to be played in those days versus today. You could tackle dudes going to the hole back then, you can’t sneeze on these dudes today. There’s literally no defense being played today. So how good are these players today.

But now they are allowed to play the zone, now are you going to pull up MJ's numbers in college where they were allowed to play zone also?

 

[wwetv100]

No way Al Kaline would have joined the Yankees, so does this make him better than Reggie Jackson? No, because they played in two different eras, where things were totally different.
The only way this argument would actually make sense is if only KD and LeBron were doing it today, nah, every team is doing it and only the ones that do it correctly are the ones that are winning. Same thing with free agency in baseball and football.

You are only reiterating my point because you lacked to bring up any other similar situation in sports. The sportsmanship in this aspect in the modern NBA is lacking in comparison to other sports or even its previous versions.

The everybody is doing it point just shines more on the whole point. It is not about being better or what not or greater as I clearly showed in the post.

It is about the players would NOT do it period, but stuff like that gets lost in these discussions. They stayed with their teams for the most part if they were considered the MVP of the team. Isiah didn't go join Magic or Dr. J go join Kareem. Imagine if that occurred how things may look different? They would be uncomfortable going to the competition and be apart of their competitor's team because they did not want to look as the weaker player who joined them because he couldn't beat them.

There really is no arguing around this.

 

[RoadRage]

Malone played one season, at 40, with the Lakers before retiring. Ray Allen and KG were traded to Boston, and neither demanded to be traded there behind the scenes (as far as I know).

So why did they call it the dream team not the over the hill squad?

 

[RoadRage]

You are only reiterating my point because you lacked to bring up any other similar situation in sports. The sportsmanship in this aspect in the modern NBA is lacking in comparison to other sports or even its previous versions.

The everybody is doing it point just shines more on the whole point. It is not about being better or what not or greater as I clearly showed in the post.

It is about the players would NOT do it period, but stuff like that gets lost in these discussions. They stayed with their teams for the most part if they were considered the MVP of the team. They would be uncomfortable going to the competition and be apart of their competitor's team because they did not want to look as the weaker player who joined them because he couldn't beat them.

There really is no arguing around this.

You are trying to define sportsmanship according to your narrative, but in reality, all sports evolve and change, and this has nothing to do with sportsmanship or integrity.
Question: does the fact that Tom Brady plays with a full helmet and pads make him better than someone like Y. A. Tittle? No, so stop being that old man who used to walk ten miles to school uphill both ways!

 

[donwuan]

So in the past 30 years the NBA has not improved, players are not more skilled, receive better training?

Go watch some old games, all them dudes did was dunk and couldn't shoot for shit. Size was the only advantage they had and yes there are some exceptions but only a handful.

Lard Bird was arguably the best shooter of all time. That was before they moved the three point line too.

 

[wwetv100]

You are trying to define sportsmanship according to your narrative, but in reality, all sports evolve and change, and this has nothing to do with sportsmanship or integrity.
Question: does the fact that Tom Brady plays with a full helmet and pads make him better than someone like Y. A. Tittle? No, so stop being that old man who used to walk ten miles to school uphill both ways!

LOL old man insult does nothing because I didn't even state my opinion on what Joe Budden actually said. I was responding to a post about MJ manhandling his competition, while LeBron played his competition. None of this what you are saying negates that the yesteryear star players didn't do what the players of the NBA in recent years did.

It has nothing to do about sports evolving or narratives. It just is what it is. Didn't say it was positive or negative, but that's what happens when these discussions come up. You state something that is obvious and then it appears you are choosing one over the other, when it's just calling it like it is.

Did they or didn't they? Answer is a simple NO.

Just like the baseball discussion of steroids. Did Bonds take roids to help him get those numbers with hits and home runs? YES.

Does it mean he is lesser or greater than someone like Hank Aaron? Possibly, but it is what it is. Aaron did not take roids for his numbers or at least as far as the public knows. It just is what it is.

 

[tallblacknyc]

Fam are you a basketball fan?

I literally broke down the suns squad of 93 without zero google and YouTube help and you have the audacity to ask me that question.. I used to love the nba , mad as hell they didn’t have this sports betting shit back than.. the modern game is garbage and as someone else said barely watchable… my love of the nba has been lost and don’t watch it no more

 

[RoadRage]

LOL old man insult does nothing because I didn't even state my opinion on what Joe Budden actually said. I was responding to a post about MJ manhandling his competition, while LeBron played his competition. None of this what you are saying negates that the yesteryear star players didn't do what the players of the NBA in recent years did.

It has nothing to do about sports evolving or narratives. It just is what it is. Didn't say it was positive or negative, but that's what happens when these discussions come up. You state something that is obvious and then it appears you are choosing one over the other, when it's just calling it like it is.

Did they or didn't they? Answer is a simple NO.

Just like the baseball discussion of steroids. Did Bonds take roids to help him get those numbers with hits and home runs? YES.

Does it mean he is lesser or greater than someone like Hank Aaron? Possibly, but it is what it is. Aaron did not take roids for his numbers or at least as far as the public knows. It just is what it is.

Do you have receipts that prove Bonds knowingly took steroids other than the one time he claimed to have accidentally rubbed it on himself to help his muscles recover? If so, why haven't you mailed it to the feds?

 

[c_commander]

Gilbert Arenas, the same guy who said Grant Hill not being able to shoot but being an All Star showed that players in the 90s couldn't handle today's players as if Ben Simmons who won't shoot hasn't been All NBA in this era.
By the way Laimbeer had a jumper and rebounded so he could have a role though he wouldn't get away with most of his antics on defense. But Grayson Allen does so who knows

 

[Pworld297]

Suns best record in the league 62-20.. best offense in the league average 113.4 points a game… 7 players averaged double digit points per game.. barkley was that yrs mvp.. Dan marle had broke the single season record in 3 pointers that yr and led the league in 3 points.. you had Kevin Johnson a pg that could shoot, go straight to the hole, dish out and put up double doubles in points and assist any given night… Richard dumas a rookie sensation who average 16+ a night and could put up 20+ points any given night.. Nobody seems to remember this.. they also seem to forget pippen average less than 20 points a night.. Horace grant average less than 15 points a night.. so the second and 3rd best scorer on the bulls average less than 33 points combined.. which means what? Who had to carry the scoring load for that team when they had to battle that offense assault of the suns? Oh yeah that number 23 guy.. these are the facts nobody wants you to know especially if you just a YouTube/ google nig that didn’t watch the games back than

My man, you always come with straight fire when it comes to MJ...

 

[BlackGoku]

I could name other players but most of you guys who didn’t watch sports back than wouldn’t know these players.. most teams had all around squads.. hell teams that didn’t win shit would dominate todays team.. look at the magic that lost in the finals.. penny, nick anderson, Dennis Scott, Horace grant, shaq whose stopping those guys today

I think the warriors and the cavs both would beat them. The issue here is that no one could guard Shaq and I could put Klay(before the injury) on Penny as Gil said...different eras.

Personally I think the sonics 96 and the blazers from 92 would be absolute hell today. 96 sonics doesn't have as deep of a bench, but those 92 blazers were a problem. People forget about Clifford Robinson and Kersey but they could D up against durant and take his whole soul