Music Debate: 10 yrs for NOW which MC will be considered the BEST!!!

[playahaitian]

15 years for now which MC will be MORE highly regarded???

and

Which LIVING MC is the perfect combo of BOTH styles???​

 

[Mentor B]

In all fairness, Eminem is a better MC than Rakim. However, Rakim's place as a pioneer can never be taken.

Nobody before him was rapping how he was rapping.

This guy literally changed the game and inspired the rap stars of the 1990s.

 

[CeeloChamp]

In all fairness, Eminem is a better MC than Rakim. However, Rakim's place as a pioneer can never be taken.

Nobody before him was rapping how he was rapping.

This guy literally changed the game and inspired the rap stars of the 1990s.

this

 

[playahaitian]

In all fairness, Eminem is a better MC than Rakim. However, Rakim's place as a pioneer can never be taken.

Nobody before him was rapping how he was rapping.

This guy literally changed the game and inspired the rap stars of the 1990s.

I can't give you Eminem is a BETTER MC.

I WILL agree Em got so many styles he can flip and he got the battle edge to him too and the references...so NOW obviously Rakim would sound slightly dated.

but I would argue he is fruit from the tree that Rakim damn near planted.

He was the one that birthed the modern rap style, the blueprint all others followed. Nas' poetry, Jay's completeness, Biggie's versatility and Pac's emotion etc etc.

You can HEAR Rakim's influence in Kendrick, Drake, Joe Buddens and almost all others.

and with the REGRESSION in modern MC-ing I think the god is probably still 75% doper then ANY of these new MCs.

 

[Mr. Met]

Eminem better than Rakim? Wow!

Better question 'how dead will hip-hop be in 10 years.

 

[ak_rep]

In all fairness, Eminem is a better MC than Rakim. However, Rakim's place as a pioneer can never be taken.

Nobody before him was rapping how he was rapping.

This guy literally changed the game and inspired the rap stars of the 1990s.

Ridiculous. And Rakim didn't fly in like an alien from a saucer and "change the game." There were a number of emcees that contributed to the evolution of flows and lyrics.

KRS being one of them. Nobody was on some Jamaican patois shit before dude. And that was very prevalent during the time. LL took the metaphors and themes to another level too. Y'all need to quit spitting this bullshit. Say Rakim was the best rapper at the time, he wasn't some alien that changed the way people were rhyming by himself.

 

[playahaitian]

Ridiculous. And Rakim didn't fly in like an alien from a saucer and "change the game." There were a number of emcees that contributed to the evolution of flows and lyrics.

KRS being one of them. Nobody was on some Jamaican patois shit before dude. And that was very prevalent during the time. LL took the metaphors and themes to another level too. Y'all need to quit spitting this bullshit. Say Rakim was the best rapper at the time, he wasn't some alien that changed the way people were rhyming by himself.

^^^

you absolutely correct that KRS still doesn't get enough respect!

And I have made numerous threads on LL and for some reason he just doesn't get enough love either as an MC.

but to discount Rakim's influence and not recognize that he was one of the BEST ever...

even though I am personally more of a Kane fan.

 

[ak_rep]

^^^

you absolutely correct that KRS still doesn't get enough respect!

And I have made numerous threads on LL and for some reason he just doesn't get enough love either as an MC.

but to discount Rakim's influence and not recognize that he was one of the BEST ever...

even though I am personally more of a Kane fan.

For sure, Rakim raised the bar on lyricism, flows, patterns whatever. He's an innovator. But other rappers were right there with him, raising the bar. Mic presence was incredible. Patience was incredible: extended thoughts. Vocab, etc. Artist learned from him but others as well.

But on the topic, In the Ghetto is a "perfect" hip hop record to myself, along with some others like Ain't No Half Steppin. Eminem can rhyme good but I don't put him in that class of emceeing. Nor anyone outside of the Golden Era. Personally. The Golden Era is philosophical and poetic greatness that newer rappers benefited from.

 

[Black Radical]

For sure, Rakim raised the bar on lyricism, flows, patterns whatever. He's an innovator. But other rappers were right there with him, raising the bar. Mic presence was incredible. Patience was incredible: extended thoughts. Vocab, etc. Artist learned from him but others as well.

But on the topic, In the Ghetto is a "perfect" hip hop record to myself, along with some others like Ain't No Half Steppin. Eminem can rhyme good but I don't put him in that class of emceeing. Nor anyone outside of the Golden Era. Personally. The Golden Era is philosophical and poetic greatness that newer rappers benefited from.

Eminem is a top flight MC, there is no question. Technically more advanced than Rakim. However, Rakim's relevance is about his technical prowess as much as it is about how he captured the imagination of young black men and women, about how musically he also sampled James Brown and rode as a part of the black music continuum in this country. Eminem isn't that for us. Maybe he's that for white kids. I've never connected with Em on that level even as he had made songs like "Sorry Mama". His white angst was too far removed from the life in the ghetto I experienced. Black men in general don't hate their moms, no matter how fucked up they are. Its just a different cultural thing.

Content and context matters. Eminem save for a few moments, was the equivalent of a shock jock rapping, imho. dissing gay people, dissing his mom, dissing his babies mom. Dissing Mariah Carrey and countless others who really didn't pose as a threat to anyone. His disses of Benzino were epic though. But it was still some real corny shit. He's one of the best to ever rhyme, but he mainly rhymes about dystopian themes which are far removed from the ghetto realities that birthed the art form and gave so many of us a soundtrack and racial pride and endless debates on the block about who's the illest. I dont find him to be that culturally relevant, although he does add to the technical proficiency of the art form.

To answer the question, it depends on who is doing the debating, those in the know and part of the culture or just some young skinny jeans wearing fanboy.

 

[B-Witty]

Rakim is overrated..... Pioneer YES.... Greatest MC hell no..... KRS one is better and always will be...Rakim has tight flow and superb voice.. but he is outdated and even when he came back in 97 his album was not all THAT.. i sold it matter of fact .....


Em is more regarded now
and ten years he will be more regarded than now!

Yall need to get off Rakim dick

"I still stick my dick in yall ear and fuck what u heard....."

 

[ak_rep]

Eminem is a top flight MC, there is no question. Technically more advanced than Rakim. However, Rakim's relevance is about his technical prowess as much as it is about how he captured the imagination of young black men and women, about how musically he also sampled James Brown and rode as a part of the black music continuum in this country. Eminem isn't that for us. Maybe he's that for white kids. I've never connected with Em on that level even as he had made songs like "Sorry Mama". His white angst was too far removed from the life in the ghetto I experienced. Black men in general don't hate their moms, no matter how fucked up they are. Its just a different cultural thing.

Content and context matters. Eminem save for a few moments, was the equivalent of a shock jock rapping, imho. dissing gay people, dissing his mom, dissing his babies mom. Dissing Mariah Carrey and countless others who really didn't pose as a threat to anyone. His disses of Benzino were epic though. But it was still some real corny shit. He's one of the best to ever rhyme, but he mainly rhymes about dystopian themes which are far removed from the ghetto realities that birthed the art form and gave so many of us a soundtrack and racial pride and endless debates on the block about who's the illest. I dont find him to be that culturally relevant, although he does add to the technical proficiency of the art form.

To answer the question, it depends on who is doing the debating, those in the know and part of the culture or just some young skinny jeans wearing fanboy.

Emenim is a top flight emcee now? In your mind. He can rhyme over those hollow ass beats. Listen to The Blue Print, The Documentary, Get Rich or Die Trying. The beats change significantly from the sound of the LP, on some Legend of Zelda shit. But since you say there's not debate, I won't, but a bit more.

Eminem is a post golden era rapper. Good student of the game but not the game. By you saying "more technically advanced" is miniature because he studied the greats. He's not better, just has more points of reference. Poetically and philosophically, Rakim is a boss. Em studied Rakim, Cage, AZ, Bone, Treach, etc. He's obsessive and a good performer. But when it comes to the trenches, he's not in Rakim's class.

Rakim is an innovator and author. And was a commander during a peek point in rap. Eminem has authored very little.

 

[BKF]

Ridiculous. And Rakim didn't fly in like an alien from a saucer and "change the game." There were a number of emcees that contributed to the evolution of flows and lyrics.

KRS being one of them. Nobody was on some Jamaican patois shit before dude. And that was very prevalent during the time. LL took the metaphors and themes to another level too. Y'all need to quit spitting this bullshit. Say Rakim was the best rapper at the time, he wasn't some alien that changed the way people were rhyming by himself.

Dude LL was before both Rakim and KRS1. I am one of the people who feel LL is underrated. I am a KRS1 fan but lets present the first introduction of KRS1 and Rakim.





Around the same time was these innovators (who happen to be a force behind BDP) Ced Gee


Now here's LL around that time

 

[ak_rep]

Dude LL was before both Rakim and KRS1. I am one of the people who feel LL is underrated. I am a KRS1 fan but lets present the first introduction of KRS1 and Rakim.

We have to get on the same page because in the other thread you misinterpreted myself, like the South was sampling James Brown, etc.

We need to get on the same page because I respect your view on hip hop. What are you trying to say?

 

[BKF]

We have to get on the same page because in the other thread you misinterpreted myself, like the South was sampling James Brown, etc.

We need to get on the same page because I respect your view on hip hop. What are you trying to say?

 

[kefta]

EM is wack!

 

[ak_rep]

Trying to figure this out. You're trying to say Rakim flew in on a flying saucer and "revolutionized" hip hop lyrics alone. Is that it? I don't really understand what you're saying.

Like Gangstarr said, "Speak Your Clout."

 

[ViCiouS]

Rakim is overrated..... Pioneer YES.... Greatest MC hell no..... KRS one is better and always will be...Rakim has tight flow and superb voice.. but he is outdated and even when he came back in 97 his album was not all THAT.. i sold it matter of fact .....


Em is more regarded now
and ten years he will be more regarded than now!

Yall need to get off Rakim dick

"I still stick my dick in yall ear and fuck what u heard....."

KRS is great but I've never heard anyone say he is a better MC than the god...
shit IMO KRS' best rhyme can't fuck with an average Rakim verse. flow, metaphor, depth, vocabulary... Ra kills KRS on all counts.

Krs - Ra - Kool Keith - Kane - Masta Ace - GRap - Guru - Puba - LL are all equally responsible for Treach Raekwon Kiss J Nas Big Em etc...

 

[BKF]

Trying to figure this out. You're trying to say Rakim flew in on a flying saucer and "revolutionized" hip hop lyrics alone. Is that it? I don't really understand what you're saying.

Like Gangstarr said, "Speak Your Clout."

Here's what I'll tell you. When I (and many others) first heard Eric B For President. Everything about it was new. Now if you have a point that you are trying to arive at. Then get there.

 

[ViCiouS]

Trying to figure this out. You're trying to say Rakim flew in on a flying saucer and "revolutionized" hip hop lyrics alone. Is that it? I don't really understand what you're saying.

Like Gangstarr said, "Speak Your Clout."

imo - Rakim introduced poetry and word play crafting true metaphors when everyone else was still doing analogies...

 

[A to Dah K]

EM is wack!

This^^^^
Side show ass rapper

 

[ak_rep]

Here's what I'll tell you. When I (and many others) first heard Eric B For President. Everything about it was new. Now if you have a point that you are trying to arive at. Then get there.

I got there already did. KRS been breaking ground. Listen to, and it's not my point of reference, listen to what's his name, newer podcast with D Nice. Freaking, Combat Jack Show. He heard South Bronx and thought "aliens were falling down." He said that.

And I've been said "My Philosophy" is the best, greatest, hip hop record ever recorded. Don't agree, cool.

Now, even if we don't agree on who was the best, this dude wasn't alone creating ground breaking material, flows, cadences and patterns, and that's that.

 

[BKF]

I got there already did. KRS been breaking ground. Listen to, and it's not my point of reference, listen to what's his name, newer podcast with D Nice. Freaking, Combat Jack Show. He heard South Bronx and thought "aliens were falling down." He said that.

And I've been said "My Philosophy" is the best, greatest, hip hop record ever recorded. Don't agree, cool.

Now, even if we don't agree on who was the best, this dude wasn't alone creating ground breaking material, flows, cadences and patterns, and that's that.

Bruh..that's your argument. I put forth my argument in showing you the first introduction of these two artist. Eric B For President is by far the best introduction. It has the most impact in changing the course of Hip-Hop from the music to the lyrics. There are countless Hip-Hop artist/DJ's/Fan of Hip-Hop who felt the same way. Hell even Dr Dre wanted to work with him. Rakim, KRS1, and Kane were the new breed of Hip-Hop artist. Yet most till this day try to emulate Rakim's style knowingly or unknowingly.

 

[durham]

I like shady, but material and variance has to mean something in the race of the all time greats. The majority of eminems records are suicidal rants about his wife/ex wife and mother.

Their is no way, in any subjective way that he is better than Rakim . timing, impact, flow, social impact, etc. Okay well okay, Em is a better battle rapper, and his animation is more pleasing to see live from a spectacle standpoint (rakim was boring live).

Pull the lyrics out read em, album to album. This is not an good comparison.

Rakim was just so important in the new direction of how all emcees put records together.

Compare em to dre3000, treach maybe , jumping eras is not going to work

Present day though, I just have not heard anyone that could age like say Nas. The material is just so bad, lyrically. Beats are so repetitive

I mean Kendrick made an all time album (some disagree of course), but he is really going to have a hard time growing long term due to content he reference on his first album. Dude has money now, what in the hell is he going to rap about that resonates to the same crowd.

Golden era emcees still had to grind four albums deep, due to economics. And the fans demanded it, nowadays we the listening public are not as discerning either, look how popular Rick Ross is .

 

[john blackcorn]

if em was black this wouldnt even be up for debate

 

[ak_rep]

KRS is great but I've never heard anyone say he is a better MC than the god...
shit IMO KRS' best rhyme can't fuck with an average Rakim verse. flow, metaphor, depth, vocabulary... Ra kills KRS on all counts.

Krs - Ra - Kool Keith - Kane - Masta Ace - GRap - Guru - Puba - LL are all equally responsible for Treach Raekwon Kiss J Nas Big Em etc...

You pushing it man. "My Philosophy" is like the best record ever. Just established so much. But, I'll let it rest for another time but really?

There's a fundamental divide with rap purists as to what is lyrical and what is less lyrical.

You really went out there with that statement. But if that's how you feel, I'll respect that.

 

[ViCiouS]

You pushing it man. "My Philosophy" is like the best record ever. Just established so much. But, I'll let it rest for another time but really?

There's a fundamental divide with rap purists as to what is lyrical and what is less lyrical.

You really went out there with that statement. But if that's how you feel, I'll respect that.

ok seriously My Philosophy does establish a lot, it is great rhymes great flow etc... its just real.

Let us begin, what, where, why, or when
Will all be explained like instructions to a game
See I'm not insane, in fact I'm kind of rational
When I be asking you, "Who is more dramatical?"
This one or that one, the white one or the black one
Pick the punk, and I'll jump up to attack one
KRS-One is just the guy to lead a crew
Right up to your face and dis you
Everyone saw me on the last album cover
Holding a pistol something far from a lover
Beside my brother, S-C-O-T-T
I just laughed, cause no one can defeat me
This is lecture number two, "My Philosophy"
Number one, was "Poetry" you know it's me
This is my philosophy, many artists got to learn
I'm not flammable, I don't burn
So please stop burning, and learn to earn respect
Cause that's just what KR collects
See, what do you expect when you rhyme like a soft punk
You walk down the street and get jumped
You got to have style, and learn to be original
And everybody's gonna wanna diss you
Like me, we stood up for the South Bronx
And every sucker MC had a response
You think we care? I know that they are on the tip
My posse from the Bronx is thick
In real real life, we roll correctly
A lot of suckers would like to forget me
But they can't, cause like a champ I have got a record
Of knocking out the frauds in a second
On the mic, I believe that you should get loose
I haven't come to tell you I got juice
I just produce, create, innovate on a higher level
I'll be back, but for now just seckle!

[Verse 2]
I'll play the nine and you play the target
You all know my name so I guess I'll just start it
Or should I say start this, teaching I'm the artist
Styles and new concepts at their hardest
Yo, cos I'm a teacher and Scott is a scholar
It ain't about money cause we all make dollars
That's why I walk with my head up
When I hear wack rhymes I get fed up
Rap is like a set-up, a lot of games
A lot of suckers with colorful names
I'm so-and-so, I'm this, I'm that
Huh, but they all just wick-wick-wack
I'm not white or red or black, I'm brown
From the Boogie Down
Productions, of course our music be thumping
Others say they're bad, but they're bugging
Let me tell you something now about Hip Hop
About D-Nice, Melodie, and Scott La Rock
I'll get a pen, a pencil, a marker
Mainly what I write is for the average New Yorker
Some MC's be talking and talking
Trying to show how black people are walking
But I don't walk this way to portray
Or reinforce stereotypes of today
Like all my brothers eat chicken and watermelon
Talk broken english and drug selling
See I'm telling, and teaching pure facts
The way some act in rap is kind of wack
And it lacks creativity and intelligence
But they don't care cause their company's selling it
It's my philosophy, on the industry
Don't bother dissing me, or even wishing we'd
Soften, dilute, or commercialize all the lyrics
Cause it's about time one of y'all hear it
And hear it first-hand from an intelligent brown man
A vegetarian, no goat or ham
Or chicken or turkey or hamburger
Cause to me that's suicide self-murder
Let us get back to what we call Hip Hop
And what it meant to DJ Scott La Rock

[Verse 3]
How many MC's must get dissed
Before somebody says, "Don't f*** with Kris!"
This is just one style, out of many
Like a piggy bank, this is one penny
My brother's name is Kenny - that's Kenny Parker
My other brother I.C.U. is much darker
Boogie Down Productions is made up of teachers
The lecture is conducted from the mic into the speaker
Who gets weaker? The king or the teacher
It's not about a salary it's all about reality
Teachers teach and do the world good
Kings just rule and most are never understood
If you were to rule or govern a certain industry
All inside this room right now would be in misery
No one would get along nor sing a song
Cause everyone'd be singing for the king, am I wrong?!
I say yo, what's up, it's me again
Scott La Rock, KRS, BDP again
Many people had the nerve to think we would end the trend
With Criminal Minded, an album which is only ten
Funky, funky, funky, funky, funky hit records
No more than four minutes and some seconds
The competition checks and checks and keeps checking
They take the album, take it home, and start sweating
Why? Well it's simple, to them it's kind of vital
To take KRS-One's title
To them I'm like an idol, some type of entity
In everybody's rhyme they wanna mention me
Or rather mention us, me or Scott La Rock
But they can get bust get robbed, get dropped
I don't play around nor do I F around
And you can tell by the bodies that are left around
When some clown jumps up to get beat down
Broken down to his very last compound
See how it sounds? a little unrational
A lot of emcees like to use the word dramatical!
Fresh for '88, you suckers

but KRS didn't even imagine how to craft a rhyme inside a rhyme - all of his analogies are simple... he also lacks depth as a poet - these were the things that made Rakim's debut revolutionary.
My Philosophy isn't as ground breaking as Eric B 4 President, or My Melody or I Know You Got Soul...

I came in the door, I said it before
I never let the mic magnetize me no more
But it's biting me, fighting me, inviting me to rhyme
I can't hold it back, I'm looking for the line
Taking off my coat, clearing my throat
The rhyme will be kicking until I hit my last note
My mind remains refined, all kind of ideas
Self-esteem makes it seem like a thought took years to build
But still say a rhyme after the next one
Prepared, never scared, I'll just bless one
And you know that I'm the soloist
So Eric B make 'em clap to this

[Verse 2]
I don't bug out or chill or be acting ill
No tricks in '86, it's time to build
Eric be easy on the cut, no mistakes allowed
Cause to me, MC means move the crowd
I made it easy to dance to this
But can you detect what's coming next from the flex of the wrist
Say indeed and I'll proceed cause my man made a mix
If he bleed he won't need no band-aid to fix
His fingertips sew a rhyme until there's no rhymes left
I hurry up because the cut will make 'em bleed to death
But he's kicking it cause it ain't no half stepping
The party is live, the rhyme can't be kept in-
Side, it needs erupting just like a volcano
It ain't the everyday style or the same old rhyme
Cause I'm better than the rest of them
Eric B is on the cut and my name is Rakim

{verse3}
Go get a girl and get soft and warm
Don't get excited, you've been invited to a quiet storm
But now it's out of hand cause you told me you hate me
And then you ask what have I done lately
First you said all you want is love and affection
Let me be your angel and I'll be your protection
Take you out, buy you all kinds of things
I must have got you too hot and burned off your wings
You caught an attitude, you need food to eat up
I'm scheming like I'm dreaming on a couch with my feet up
You scream I'm lazy, you must be crazy
Thought I was a donut, you tried to glaze me

 

[playahaitian]

For sure, Rakim raised the bar on lyricism, flows, patterns whatever. He's an innovator. But other rappers were right there with him, raising the bar. Mic presence was incredible. Patience was incredible: extended thoughts. Vocab, etc. Artist learned from him but others as well.

But on the topic, In the Ghetto is a "perfect" hip hop record to myself, along with some others like Ain't No Half Steppin. Eminem can rhyme good but I don't put him in that class of emceeing. Nor anyone outside of the Golden Era. Personally. The Golden Era is philosophical and poetic greatness that newer rappers benefited from.

I don't know so Biggie Jay Nas Ice Cube Kool G, Outkast, ATCQ, Pos hell Ghost & Chef aint on the all time great list?

 

[Dannyblueyes]

Eminem.

For the same reasons that Led Zeppelin is considered better than Chuck Berry.

 

[Art Vandelay]

2 of my top 5...

No question Eminem will be more highly regarded in 10 years-- older rappers will only fade further from view and memory. Kids who were born after Tupac and Biggie died are going to be going to college in a couple of years.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Nobody before him was rapping how he was rapping.

Kool Moe D would argue that point. Ra was one of the best of the SECOND wave of Emcees

 

[Art Vandelay]

Where Rakim faded before I was in school, Eminem took off and started dominating music in my youth so I was familiar with him first.

I had no idea

I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't
Then why would I say I am?

came from

I'm the R
The A
To the K-I-M
If I wasn't
Then why would I say I am?

and I was even exposed to

I take 7 MCs
Put 'em in a line
Add 7 more brothers
Who think they can rhyme
It'll take 7 more
Before I go for mine
Now that's 21 Mcs
Ate up at the same time

by

I take 7 kids from Columbine
Stand 'em all in line
Add an AK-47
A revolver, a nine
A Mack-11 and that oughta
Solve a problem of mine
And that's a whole school of bullies
Shot up all at one time




​

 

[l9ikjam]

I don't know so Biggie Jay Nas Ice Cube Kool G, Outkast, ATCQ, Pos hell Ghost & Chef aint on the all time great list?

Lol I was thinking the same thing. Between the 2 em has a whole lot more hits and a way better flow.

 

[RunawaySlave]

One guy gets universal airplay, one gets play on Video Music Box once in a while and every now and then maybe BET will throw him a bone

 

[ak_rep]

I don't know so Biggie Jay Nas Ice Cube Kool G, Outkast, ATCQ, Pos hell Ghost & Chef aint on the all time great list?

Definitely all time greats and all are from the Golden Era. Extends to '96 for myself. And within that, 87-92 were crazy as far as innovation and creativity. Some may feel different but that's my Golden Era.

 

[godofwine]

if em was black this wouldnt even be up for debate

I almost have to agree with this. Eminem is talented as hell with his work late and creation. He just is. Is it because he's white and had to try harder to be accepted by a majority black crowd? maybe. But you cannot deny his skills. Whatever his topics are vary and how much you like him but you can't deny his skills. as about all rapper, man I would've loved to see those battle raps he had in detroit before he got big.


and this below, just wow. just a jack move. I never noticed this before. Good catch bro. I wonder if he did it to pay homage or if he was trying to sneak it by us

Where Rakim faded before I was in school, Eminem took off and started dominating music in my youth so I was familiar with him first.

I had no idea

I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't
Then why would I say I am?

came from

I'm the R
The A
To the K-I-M
If I wasn't
Then why would I say I am?

and I was even exposed to

I take 7 MCs
Put 'em in a line
Add 7 more brothers
Who think they can rhyme
It'll take 7 more
Before I go for mine
Now that's 21 Mcs
Ate up at the same time

by

I take 7 kids from Columbine
Stand 'em all in line
Add an AK-47
A revolver, a nine
A Mack-11 and that oughta
Solve a problem of mine
And that's a whole school of bullies
Shot up all at one time




​