Office Debate: The fight over return-to-office is getting dirty (pandemic)

playahaitian

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Amazon has built its $1.3 trillion empire largely by tracking and evaluating almost every aspect of a customer's life. From a new TV to a toilet-paper refill, Amazon knows what a customer wants and when they want it, and it's always ready to serve it to them.
This obsession with metrics and data, however, does not appear to extend to certain parts of Amazon's workplace. Over the past few months, the company has aggressively pushed employees back to the office. In February, Amazon announced that employees would be required to come into the office three days a week and since then, the e-commerce giant has escalated its battle with remote employees: sending emails to employees about their attendance, creating internal dashboards to display how many days a week each employee was coming into the office, and telling managers in October that they could begin firing employees who weren't meeting the return-to-office requirements.
When perturbed employees have pressed executives for the reason behind the mandate, supposedly data-obsessed higher-ups have seemed to have no data to justify it. Asked in August about this, Mike Hopkins, a senior vice president of Prime Video and Amazon Studios, offered a vague response, saying that he had "no data either way" on whether mandating in-office work made people more productive but that executives believe Amazon's workers do their best work when they're together.
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It's reasonable to wonder why Amazon, a company that has data on hundreds of millions of people and their decisions, is struggling to come up with hard numbers to back up its dictatorial push back to the office. Perhaps the reason is that the data supporting Amazon and other companies' RTO policies is threadbare, relying mostly on a few studies that use sample sets of questionable usefulness to back up their claims that remote work is less productive.
But the weakness of the evidence won't stop bosses from making these RTO mandates. They indicate a failure of imagination on the part of management and a refusal to do the work necessary to create a positive company culture.

Evidence is as evidence does​

As the return-to-office battle has heated up in the past six months, there has been a marked increase in declarations that remote work is less productive. But diving deeper into this evidence reveals flawed logic — and a media industry obsessed with proving bosses right.
The study that has most often been used to argue for the necessity of in-office work is a July working paper from researchers at the National Bureau of Economic Research, which randomly assigned data-entry workers at a company in India to work either from home or in the office for eight weeks. The researchers determined that remote workers were 18% less productive than their in-person counterparts. Journalists have consistently cited this study without, it seems, taking a moment to consider its findings. First and foremost, it's farcical to use the work of entry-level data workers in India — who were recruited specifically for the study — as a proxy for all employees in all industries around the world. Secondly, the measurement of their productivity was "net speed," or the number of correct entries they made in a minute. The "drop in productivity" is really about how fast people could put numbers into a sheet — but that's not what most people do at work.
Other outlets cited a study that examined the productivity of 10,000 workers at an Asian IT-services company. The central claim seems to be tailor-made for RTO advocates: The researchers estimated a productivity shortfall of 8% to 19% when workers transitioned from working at the office to working from home. The study's authors found only a "slight decline in output" but acknowledged workers were stretching out their working hours at home; those things together showed up as a drop in productivity. Here too, there are issues. "Output" in this case refers to "performance against the semi-annual goal on a key performance metric," like lines of useful code written by a developer. The authors described these metrics as "objective" and tracked, but the actual composition of these metrics is still pretty vague and based on managers' interpretations of their value. Additionally, hours worked were logged by an employee-surveillance software — but these sorts of tools come with plenty of problems that should make anyone skeptical of their efficacy.
These studies — and the RTO push — often betray an utter ignorance of the workplace and work itself, both its structure and its outputs.
You'll notice a lot of these studies focus on call centers (the Stanford researcher Nicholas Bloom cited two in his roundup of productivity research), and that's likely because these are extremely controlled and heavily micromanaged environments — ones rife with labor abuse. Crude measures of productivity might indeed slip when workers are able to get away from horrible managers or torrents of abuse, but "productivity" in these studies is always a rigid metric, like "calls answered," rather than something more meaningful, like whether a problem was fixed or whether the customer was happy. These studies are relatively useless when it comes to evaluating most companies' return-to-office strategies, but that's just fine for the managerial elite.
As somebody who's been writing about this subject for years (and who's worked remotely since 2012), I've yet to read a single piece of research that convincingly backs up the assertion that we need to be in the office. And yet major media outlets have continued to feed bosses' narrative that we "do better work together." The existing studies continually fail to evaluate real work. Instead they prioritize speed, betraying the same corporate ignorance forcing people back to the office. These studies — and the RTO push — often betray an utter ignorance of the workplace and work itself, both its structure and its outputs.

Just the vibes​

Despite the limited evidence against it, corporations are increasingly trying to kill remote work. Corporate statements about these decisions never seem to justify the shift beyond platitudes about "togetherness" and vague references to "culture." Look deeper, though, and they reveal the rotten core of the mandates.
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Roblox, a company that derives its revenue from digital worlds, reversed its flexible work policy in October, telling employees that if they didn't work at least three days a week in the office they'd be laid off. The reason for the about-face? Based on its CEO David Baszucki's blog post announcing the move, it seems mostly about vibes.
"I personally hoped that for our culture and our type of work, it might be possible to imagine a heavily hybrid remote culture," he wrote. "But there was a pivotal moment for me when we had our first post-quarantine, in-person group gathering. Within 45 minutes I came away from three separate conversations with spontaneous to do's and ideas to put in motion, something that hadn't happened during the past few years of video meetings."
Nike's four-days-a-week policy points to "the power and energy that comes from working together in person." Geico said its return-to-office program was meant to "foster a sense of community and connection" — but offered little data to support the decision. The only numbers in the announcement appeared to be about layoffs: Geico said it was letting 2,000 people go to sustain "long-term profitability and growth," suggesting that while layoffs can be evaluated with data, in-person work can only be backed up with mood rings.
Managers and executives make calls based on perception rather than hands-on experience or data.
These announcements are almost always issued by executives who probably won't be subjected to the same kinds of check-ins as the rank-and-file workers the mandates apply to. Nobody's asking Amazon's Andy Jassy or Geico's Todd Combs how many days they swiped into the office, and there's no chance Oracle, which instituted a return-to-office policy in May, would punish Safra Catz or Larry Ellison for spending too little time at their desk. This irony combined with vague justifications exposes the reality of the RTO push: Managers and executives make calls based on perception rather than hands-on experience or data. The modern CEO has become a figurehead reaping the rewards of a work process they don't meaningfully participate in, so they make their choices based on macroeconomic conditions, their own biases, or, evidently, a single 45-minute meeting that left them feeling good.
Nowhere is this more obvious than at Meta, where workers are required to return three days a week. The only problem: Employees can't find the space or the privacy to actually do their work at the office. The issue is almost too on the nose. The honchos calling the shots at Meta, a company that has caused global discord through its handling of people's data, appear to be unaware of how people at the company do their jobs. More frustratingly, Meta's corporate guidelines say that anyone who has worked at the company for 18 months or more can apply to become a permanent remote worker — a nice idea, except for the fact that hundreds of people have applied and have yet to hear back.

Because I said so​

Creating and sustaining a positive, productive corporate culture takes work. It requires managers and executives who truly understand the product their employees are putting out — and what is required to create that product. That's what makes the move to kill off remote work so frustrating. It's not clear that the return-to-office move is about making workers more productive or building a better culture. Rather, it's becoming obvious that these mandates are mostly an attempt to reestablish a surveillance society that allows managers to skip over the tough task of building a company where people actually want to work.
The RTO push is eyewash for investors to prove that drops in revenue and profitability aren't a result of poor managerial decisions but the result of lazy workers sitting at home in their pajamas. In some ways, it's a genius move for executives — a way to establish control over workers during an unprecedented societal awareness of labor rights (thanks to the striking workers of the Writers Guild of America, SAG-AFTRA, and the United Auto Workers) while also shifting the blame and consequences of poor stock performance onto those least responsible.
Real management takes responsibility and makes thoughtful decisions based on what makes a company stronger.
I would perhaps have more sympathy if companies made even the lightest attempt to demonstrate the efficacy of office work through relevant data or definable productivity metrics, rather than vague references to hours worked or office attendance. But seeing this type of data is unlikely as corporations have mostly turned modern managers into hall monitors. And if, as some have suggested, the return-to-office push is an attempt at a "soft layoff" — instituting unreasonable policies to make people quit (or accept severance) — it's corporate cowardice. It's restructuring a company based on who's most willing to tolerate wrongheaded inconveniences, rejecting great workers who don't live close to an office, and galvanizing sycophants who are willing to uncritically cheer on every executive mandate.
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While executives may see a return-to-office push as a good thing, I believe these mandates will only weaken their organizations, driving a wedge between management and workers. Forcing in-person attendance without clear goals and reasoning is going to create an outright hostility toward higher-ups. This pointless and petty crusade does nothing to make organizations better, leaner, or more productive — all it does is temporarily help executives distract from larger organizational issues.
Real management takes responsibility and makes thoughtful decisions based on what makes a company stronger. The return-to-office move is the exact opposite: an unproductive push for control that erodes the already tenuous loyalty workers have to their employers while failing to address core problems of managerial competency that will only get worse as decent employees flee these dimwitted demands.

Ed Zitron is the CEO of EZPR, a national tech and business public-relations agency. He is also the author of the tech and culture newsletter Where's Your Ed At and the host of the "15 Minutes in Hell" podcast.
 

easy_b

Easy_b is in the place to be.
BGOL Investor

@easy_b @Camille
I really don’t understand why some employees trying to force people back into the office especially if they are successful. Doing the work from home. Yeah corporate Real Estate is taking a hit but dammit you have productivity out of your people. As I stated a while ago about this issue, corporate America is having a tough time dealing with generation Z.
 

Da Backshot Champ

Rising Star
Registered
I really don’t understand why some employees trying to force people back into the office especially if they are successful. Doing the work from home. Yeah corporate Real Estate is taking a hit but dammit you have productivity out of your people. As I stated a while ago about this issue, corporate America is having a tough time dealing with generation Z.
As a supervisor I noticed the people who claumed they were "more productive" at work were the type of people giving me a fifth of the production as my next shittiest employee.

When people scream I am more productive at home is a calling card that your work ethic is complete diarreah from drinking 3rd world water.
 

easy_b

Easy_b is in the place to be.
BGOL Investor
As a supervisor I noticed the people who claumed they were "more productive" at work were the type of people giving me a fifth of the production as my next shittiest employee.

When people scream I am more productive at home is a calling card that your work ethic is complete diarreah from drinking 3rd world water.
Most employers say that they have more productivity with employees who work from home
 

PlayerR

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
It's wild that our parent company is located in Denmark & those folks work life is drastically different than ours, but they want us back in the office 3 days a week if you live within a certain amount of miles from the office.

While a few of the reasons are somewhat beneficial most don't hold water when you really break things down.
 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
As a supervisor I noticed the people who claumed they were "more productive" at work were the type of people giving me a fifth of the production as my next shittiest employee.

When people scream I am more productive at home is a calling card that your work ethic is complete diarreah from drinking 3rd world water.

I think both things can be true.

Most people need to be supervised and that isn't a slight. Structure and organization is important. And is difficult to do alone.

just like believe you have a laundry list of folk who claim to be more productive and are not... I got a list proving the opposite.

It's a tricky situation but i don't think we can shut that door now. And hybrid has been good for many workers...it's all the ancillary stuff I'm really worried about
 

Coldchi

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Are they trying to get ya'll to come back 5 days a week or hybrid?
its the reasoning they are trying to give to be back in the office. talkin bout its better for your mental health if you're able to be around your co-workers often and having that human interaction.
i'm like......the hell you say.......fuck yall....i aint tryin to be around none of yall asses. the only IT people that really have to be onsite, are the desktop support people.....cuz they have to be hands on with the majority of the things they have to do.
There is really no need to anyone else in IT to really have to be onsite.....unless a blade goes down, switch needs to be reset, or an AP replaced and someone from networking have to get in the datacenter and troubleshoot. But other than that........everything that needs to be done for our job can be done at home.
 

stizz3000

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
its the reasoning they are trying to give to be back in the office. talkin bout its better for your mental health if you're able to be around your co-workers often and having that human interaction.
i'm like......the hell you say.......fuck yall....i aint tryin to be around none of yall asses. the only IT people that really have to be onsite, are the desktop support people.....cuz they have to be hands on with the majority of the things they have to do.
There is really no need to anyone else in IT to really have to be onsite.....unless a blade goes down, switch needs to be reset, or an AP replaced and someone from networking have to get in the datacenter and troubleshoot. But other than that........everything that needs to be done for our job can be done at home.
This. Im currently on a 3in /2home situation


even when Im in the office, Im in my office all day. Since Covid most communication is on Teams. I run backups so once a week, I gotta be there to swap tapes out...

thats it

Like you said...if a server goes down, faulty switch etc......thats it. Last few times those things happened, I happened to be onsite, but were only a phone call away anyway

technically I only need to be there for about 30-60 minutes a week
 

Coldchi

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BGOL Investor
This. Im currently on a 3in /2home situation


even when Im in the office, Im in my office all day. Since Covid most communication is on Teams. I run backups so once a week, I gotta be there to swap tapes out...

thats it

Like you said...if a server goes down, faulty switch etc......thats it. Last few times those things happened, I happened to be onsite, but were only a phone call away anyway

technically I only need to be there for about 30-60 minutes a week
yeah i used to do that when i was a System Admin. we had a 48 tape Veeam server that i was responsible for doing the backup tapes on every Friday.
I had to make sure it was done by 2pm, cuz thats when Iron Mountain came by to pick up and swap out cases. And like most, our data center was ice fuckin cold.
 

easy_b

Easy_b is in the place to be.
BGOL Investor
Some people enjoy exerting their dominance over others in a safe work space.
It's really all I can think of
That is another part of the problem why some people don’t want to come back to work. Even though I got laid off a few months ago because I was the highest paid technician in the office but some of y’all know, I was bickering with management a lot because they were doing dumb shit. I’ve been in my last job for 24 years and I could spot management bullshit coming from a mile away Nevertheless I walked out the door with $87,000 and that’s not including 401(k) money. I am still chilling looking for jobs here and there really not going to Go deeper into job searching until I come back from my two week vacation in a week or two.
 

stizz3000

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yeah i used to do that when i was a System Admin. we had a 48 tape Veeam server that i was responsible for doing the backup tapes on every Friday.
I had to make sure it was done by 2pm, cuz thats when Iron Mountain came by to pick up and swap out cases. And like most, our data center was ice fuckin cold.
LOL....

ice cold. We are pumping so much cold air in here. Even in the summer, I keep a skully nearby
 

Heavenlywings77

Rising Star
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Man, they invited a bunch of illegal immigrants to try and replace the black vote, and have the nerve to dump them in our neighborhoods, dirty is not the word.

Shits full out trife!
 

easy_b

Easy_b is in the place to be.
BGOL Investor
Man, they invited a bunch of illegal immigrants to try and replace the black vote, and have the nerve to dump them in our neighborhoods, dirty is not the word.

Shits full out trife!

Most of them cannot vote. Here is the major problem corporation. Want to use them for a cheap labor because they are having a hard time getting regular Americans to do cheap jobs. But that shit is blowing up in their face because deflation may be coming. Notice, Republican governors and senators are not screaming that loud about these immigrants. Republicans had that knucklehead in office for four years and he still didn’t do shit about the immigration.
 

Heavenlywings77

Rising Star
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Most of them cannot vote. Here is the major problem corporation. Want to use them for a cheap labor because they are having a hard time getting regular Americans to do cheap jobs. But that shit is blowing up in their face because deflation may be coming. Notice, Republican governors and senators are not screaming that loud about these immigrants. Republicans had that knucklehead in office for four years and he still didn’t do shit about the immigration.



They arr giving them full citizenship so they can vote.

It can't possibly be a work thing because

A) they're not finding them employment

B) I've participated in hiring immigrants for cheap work. It's never been a shortage of illegals. Besides the fact making them legal defeats the purpose, now that they're legal they have the means to receive equal pay.
 

Heavenlywings77

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
when will you fucking idiots learn they can't vote



I see you in these political threads. You have no clue what your even talking about 90% of the time. All you ever do is curse at people who have different opinions than what you were told to believe.
 

blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
The positive thing about the 2020 pandemic was that it exposed how shitty the economic and job market really is to every day Americans. Even too Americans who don’t pay attention to anything.

And having Trump in office amped it up.

Americans “Woke Up” in 2020 and basically said “You Can Take This Job And Shove It!”.


MV5BNDgzMzAwNjItNzUzZS00N2VmLWJjNzctMjA3MzkwOWYyOWQxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjM2ODYwMQ@@._V1_.jpg


Johnny Paycheck
Take This Job And Shove It

 

mrcmd187

Controversy Creates Cash
BGOL Investor
We have been on a modified work schedule for awhile now as a result production, earnings and hiring have been through the roof. We aquired another company last February and now have satellite offices 14 other states and 2 overseas. Some work places can adapt some are companies ran by boomers who are locked in the old way of doing things like passing off someone else work as theirs and being on power trips cause of their own miserable lives.
 

playahaitian

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
The positive thing about the 2020 pandemic was that it exposed how shitty the economic and job market really is to every day Americans. Even too Americans who don’t pay attention to anything.

And having Trump in office amped it up.

Americans “Woke Up” in 2020 and basically said “You Can Take This Job And Shove It!”.


MV5BNDgzMzAwNjItNzUzZS00N2VmLWJjNzctMjA3MzkwOWYyOWQxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjM2ODYwMQ@@._V1_.jpg


Johnny Paycheck
Take This Job And Shove It



Sidebar...

If it wasn't for the racists? We would embrace country more. Cause back in the day we respected it.
 

godofwine

Supreme Porn Poster - Ret
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I admit working from home isolates me, but the two hours I get back every day from not having to drive a minimum of 45 minutes each way, I wouldn't change that shit for the fucking world

I roll out of bed at 7:55 and log in at 8:00. Sometimes I take a nap from 8:00 to 9:00 or 9:30 (thank you, mouse jiggler).

On the other hand, last night at 2:30 in the morning I was up publishing a solicitation.

Also yesterday, I went to my 5:00 p.m. chiropractor appointment when technically I don't get off until 5:30

I might not work 8 hours straight, but I do what I need to do. I know the reward for getting my work done quickly is more work so I do as little as possible, but I do it. I did just as much bullshitting when I was at work, going to other people's desk and talking or being on my phone.

I can give a good God damn about the real estate market going down. I just never want to drive into work everyday again
 

Madrox

Vaya Con Dio
BGOL Investor
I admit working from home isolates me, but the two hours I get back every day from not having to drive a minimum of 45 minutes each way, I wouldn't change that shit for the fucking world

I roll out of bed at 7:55 and log in at 8:00. Sometimes I take a nap from 8:00 to 9:00 or 9:30 (thank you, mouse jiggler).

On the other hand, last night at 2:30 in the morning I was up publishing a solicitation.

Also yesterday, I went to my 5:00 p.m. chiropractor appointment when technically I don't get off until 5:30

I might not work 8 hours straight, but I do what I need to do. I know the reward for getting my work done quickly is more work so I do as little as possible, but I do it. I did just as much bullshitting when I was at work, going to other people's desk and talking or being on my phone.

I can give a good God damn about the real estate market going down. I just never want to drive into work everyday again
I DEF do more work from home because (a) there are less distractions, and (b) I find myself working through lunch recently which is a bad habit I need to get rid of. Also like you said being able to log on at odd hours if I want to get a little work done.

Love the days that I do still WFH though. I have about 45 mins - 1hr commute each way door-to-door (walking + subway) which doesn't sound that bad, but I find that train issues lately, etc. zaps the energy out of me. By the time I get home I'm drained. Plus I've been catching headaches lately when I'm in the office for some reason (I'm thinking it's the bright ass office lighting).

The days I WFH I can decompress and turn the page quicker after work and actually have the time and energy to transition to my side projects.
 

CPT Callamity

Titty Feelin Villain
BGOL Investor
I'm glad my CEO is a younger guy. Very approachable and down to earth but also doesn't have any of that Boomer work ethic. We had a central office that they used to invite folks out to once a week for free lunch and to see other workers face to face. After the pandemic, they got rid of the office to free up some overhead. That helped a lot because my bonus last year was fat!
It so easy to the point now that all I have to do is enter my timesheet, do my work and then go about my business taking care of anything else that needs to be done. My weekends are relatively free to just be lazy.
 

Dannyblueyes

Aka Illegal Danny
BGOL Investor
Some people enjoy exerting their dominance over others in a safe work space.
It's really all I can think of

I think it has more to do with political pressure.

Before the pandemic San Francisco had 200,000 commuters every morning. The city spent billions to push that number higher.

When employees work from home retail, bars, and restaurants went out of business. Companies moved their headquarters because they no longer need the expensive real estate. The transit system, which gets a whopping 15% of its money from fares, lost millions.

It's no wonder the mayor has been pushing people to come back to the office. Her office needs those billions to pay off.

The irony is that many of the apps that enable remote work were developed in the Bay Area.
 

easy_b

Easy_b is in the place to be.
BGOL Investor
I keep telling people generation Z is going to fight you tooth and nail not to come back into the office. Also, these corporations need to realize things have changed. I feel sorry for corporate Real Estate, but it is what it is.
 

CPT Callamity

Titty Feelin Villain
BGOL Investor
I keep telling people generation Z is going to fight you tooth and nail not to come back into the office. Also, these corporations need to realize things have changed. I feel sorry for corporate Real Estate, but it is what it is.

I feel nothing for corporate Real Estate because no one wants to go to a huge state of the art building only to be confined to a gottdamned cubicle! I saw office buildings getting thrown up in downtown D.C. like shit was sweet and after the pandemic...Poof! Shits were empty. You know what was in demand? Housing. Those fuckers kept building offices and then the greedy developers kept making everything "luxury." Let them suffer just like the zombie corporations that kept being propped up. Let all of this shit fall.
 

easy_b

Easy_b is in the place to be.
BGOL Investor
I feel nothing for corporate Real Estate because no one wants to go to a huge state of the art building only to be confined to a gottdamned cubicle! I saw office buildings getting thrown up in downtown D.C. like shit was sweet and after the pandemic...Poof! Shits were empty. You know what was in demand? Housing. Those fuckers kept building offices and then the greedy developers kept making everything "luxury." Let them suffer just like the zombie corporations that kept being propped up. Let all of this shit fall.
I do not have a rebuttal for your retort.
 
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