}~~~> Official 2024/2025 NBA Thread<~~~{ these front offices be doing the most
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Hopefully ad gets healthy and y'all get the Lakers in the playoffs
I just don't like him. SAme way y'all don't like Oscar Robertson. Did Big O knock down your chic?
This is an unprecedented display of egolessness, right? Anybody recall anything like this?
100%
By the time he retires he'll be the heats greatest big man
Hopefully with a ring.
I know Mourning started in Charlotte but this prompted me to ask ChatGPT to compare each of them through Bam’s current age:
A direct, raw statistical comparison between Bam Adebayo and Alonzo Mourning (up to age 27) is complicated by the pace of play and differences in role expectations across eras. Mourning’s early-career numbers highlight his dominant interior defense and post scoring in a slower-paced, more specialized era. In contrast, Adebayo’s stats—while numerically comparable or even inflated due to modern pace—reflect a more versatile, multifaceted role that includes significant playmaking and perimeter defense.
Scoring
- Mourning (Early Career):
In his early years, Mourning was primarily a post scorer. His scoring averages—generally in the mid to high teens—came in an era with fewer possessions per game. This meant that each scoring opportunity carried more weight, and his points-per-possession efficiency was a key part of his game. - Adebayo:
Adebayo’s scoring numbers, often in a similar mid-teens range early in his career, come from a league that runs at a faster pace. More possessions mean that while his raw points-per-game might be comparable—or even slightly higher—when adjusted for pace, the difference tends to shrink. Essentially, Adebayo’s scoring output reflects a modern system where spacing and faster play naturally inflate box-score numbers. - EDGE: Alonzo Mourning (More efficient post scorer in a lower-possession era)
Rebounding
- Mourning:
Mourning was a strong rebounder in a lower-possession era, typically pulling down near double-digit rebounds on average. His physicality and positioning were key, and the relative scarcity of rebounds per game in his era meant that his totals were highly valued. - Adebayo:
Adebayo’s rebounding numbers (often around 9–10 rebounds per game) are impressive in today’s faster, more open style of play. However, with more possessions and a higher tempo, raw rebound numbers tend to be inflated. On a per-100 possessions basis, both players would likely be more closely aligned, with Mourning’s numbers appearing even more impressive relative to the pace of his era. - EDGE: Alonzo Mourning (Superior physicality and rebounding impact in a slower-paced league)
Defensive Impact (Shot Blocking and Rim Protection)
- Mourning:
Even before the age of 27, Mourning was renowned for his shot-blocking ability—often averaging around 2 blocks per game in an era with fewer overall opportunities. His impact on defense was measured not just in blocks but in altering shots and controlling the paint. - Adebayo:
Adebayo typically posts around 1.3–1.5 blocks per game. While this is lower in raw numbers compared to Mourning’s early block totals, Adebayo’s defensive contributions extend beyond blocks. His modern role requires him to switch on pick-and-rolls and guard on the perimeter, tasks that aren’t always captured in the box score. When considering pace (with more possessions leading to more block attempts), Mourning’s rate of shot blocking in his era remains a standout, even if Adebayo’s overall defensive versatility is better suited to today’s game. - EDGE: Alonzo Mourning (Elite rim protector, better pure shot-blocker)
Playmaking and Overall Versatility
- Mourning:
Early in his career, Mourning’s role was more specialized. His game focused on interior scoring and shot blocking, and he wasn’t heavily involved in playmaking. His assist numbers were modest—reflecting the traditional center role of his time. - Adebayo:
Adebayo’s statistics reflect a modern big man who is not only expected to score and rebound but also facilitate the offense. Averaging around 4–5 assists per game in his early years, he shows a broader skill set. This additional playmaking responsibility means his overall contributions extend well beyond the traditional center role—a change partly driven by the faster pace and spacing in today’s NBA. - EDGE: Bam Adebayo (Far superior passer and playmaker)
I’m playing around with some comparisons and I find this to be the most interesting so far— disagree with the conclusion.
Scoring
- Curry:
- Career PPG (through age 34, to match Kobe’s peak years): 24.6
- Peak season: 30.1 PPG (2016), 32.0 PPG (2021)
- Most efficient shooter in NBA history (48.3% FG, 42.8% 3PT, 91.0% FT).
- Greatest three-point shooter ever, with elite off-ball movement.
- Kobe:
- Career PPG (through age 34): 25.5
- Peak season: 35.4 PPG (2006)
- Scoring arsenal included post-ups, mid-range, isolation, and finishing at the rim.
- Volume shooter, often taking difficult shots (44.7% FG, 32.9% 3PT, 83.7% FT).
- EDGE: Steph Curry (More efficient and dangerous from deep, though Kobe was the better isolation scorer)
Efficiency
- Curry:
- True Shooting %: 62.6% (elite level)
- Effective FG%: 58.2%
- Career 3PT%: 42.8% on high volume
- Kobe:
- True Shooting %: 55.0%
- Effective FG%: 48.2%
- Career 3PT%: 32.9% on moderate volume
- EDGE: Steph Curry (Significantly more efficient)
Playmaking & Passing
- Curry:
- Career APG: 6.5
- Generates open looks for teammates with gravity and unselfishness.
- Quick decision-maker, elite in pick-and-rolls.
- Kobe:
- Career APG: 4.7
- More of a scoring-first player but had high assist years when needed.
- Could be ball-dominant, occasionally forcing tough shots.
- EDGE: Steph Curry (Better overall playmaker and decision-maker)
Rebounding
- Curry:
- Career RPG: 4.7
- Underrated rebounder for a guard, especially for his size.
- Kobe:
- Career RPG: 5.3
- More athletic and aggressive on the boards.
- EDGE: Kobe Bryant (Slightly better rebounder)
Defense
- Curry:
- Improved team defender, solid in the Warriors' system.
- Not a lockdown on-ball defender but holds his own.
- Kobe:
- 12× All-Defensive Team selection.
- Strong one-on-one defender, especially in his prime.
- EDGE: Kobe Bryant (Much stronger individual defender)
Clutch Play & Leadership
- Curry:
- Known for clutch moments but had some struggles in early Finals appearances.
- Has hit iconic shots but isn’t as ball-dominant in late-game situations.
- Kobe:
- One of the most feared clutch scorers in NBA history.
- Willing to take any shot, known for late-game heroics.
- EDGE: Kobe Bryant (More proven in high-pressure moments)
Championship Impact & Legacy
- Curry:
- 4× NBA Champion (2015, 2017, 2018, 2022)
- 2× MVP (2015, 2016 – first unanimous MVP)
- Revolutionized the game with shooting and spacing.
- Kobe:
- 5× NBA Champion (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)
- 1× MVP (2008)
- Defined an era with his work ethic, competitiveness, and scoring dominance.
- EDGE: Even (Kobe has more rings, but Curry changed the game)
Conclusion
- Curry was better at:
- Shooting (Greatest ever, most efficient scorer of the two)
- Playmaking (More unselfish, better passer overall)
- Efficiency (Higher TS%, better shot selection, fewer forced shots)
- Kobe was better at:
- Defense (Elite perimeter defender, multiple All-Defensive selections)
- Clutch play (More feared in late-game situations)
- Rebounding (Slightly stronger on the boards)
@MrTaharqa
Scoring
- Michael Jordan:
- Career PPG (through age 40): 30.1
- Peak season: 37.1 PPG (1987)
- Mid-range assassin, elite footwork, deadly in isolation, post-game, and transition.
- Career 49.7% FG, 32.7% 3PT, 83.5% FT.
- LeBron James:
- Career PPG (through age 40): 27.1
- Peak season: 31.4 PPG (2006)
- Dominates with size, speed, and finishing at the rim. Improved mid-range and three-point shooting in later years.
- Career 50.5% FG, 34.8% 3PT, 73.5% FT.
- EDGE: Michael Jordan (More dominant and versatile scorer)
Efficiency
- Jordan:
- True Shooting %: 56.9%
- Effective FG%: 50.9%
- Took a high volume of tough mid-range shots but converted them at an elite rate.
- LeBron:
- True Shooting %: 58.7%
- Effective FG%: 54.5%
- Higher FG% due to elite finishing at the rim.
- EDGE: LeBron James (More efficient overall, but Jordan’s efficiency was elite for his era)
Playmaking & Passing
- Jordan:
- Career APG: 5.3
- Great passer, but primarily a scorer.
- Made the right plays but not a pass-first player.
- LeBron:
- Career APG: 7.4
- Elite playmaker, functions as a point-forward.
- One of the best passers in NBA history.
- EDGE: LeBron James (Superior playmaker and facilitator)
Rebounding
- Jordan:
- Career RPG: 6.2
- Great rebounder for a guard, but not dominant.
- LeBron:
- Career RPG: 7.5
- Excellent rebounder for a forward.
- EDGE: LeBron James (Bigger, stronger, more dominant on the glass)
Defense
- Jordan:
- 9× All-Defensive Team, DPOY (1988)
- Lockdown perimeter defender, elite on-ball and off-ball.
- Career 2.3 SPG, 0.8 BPG.
- LeBron:
- 6× All-Defensive Team, no DPOY.
- Great defender at his peak but has taken plays off in later years.
- Career 1.5 SPG, 0.8 BPG.
- EDGE: Michael Jordan (Superior defender, more consistent effort)
Clutch Play & Leadership
- Jordan:
- 6× NBA Champion (6–0 in the Finals, 6× Finals MVP).
- One of the greatest clutch performers in history.
- Took and made big shots under pressure.
- LeBron:
- 4× NBA Champion (4–6 in the Finals, 4× Finals MVP).
- Clutch in different ways, often makes the right basketball play rather than taking the last shot.
- Has had some high-profile clutch moments but also some failures.
- EDGE: Michael Jordan (Better in big moments, undefeated in the Finals)
Championship Impact & Legacy
- Jordan:
- 6× NBA Champion, 6× Finals MVP.
- Defined the 90s, globalized the NBA.
- Retired twice, dominated every full season he played.
- LeBron:
- 4× NBA Champion, 4× Finals MVP.
- Unprecedented longevity, still playing at an elite level at age 40.
- Changed player empowerment and team-building in the modern era.
- EDGE: Michael Jordan (More dominant peak, perfect Finals record)
Conclusion
- Jordan was better at:
- Scoring (More dominant and clutch)
- Defense (More consistent, won DPOY)
- Clutch Play (6–0 in Finals, more feared in big moments)
- LeBron was better at:
- Playmaking (Elite facilitator, best passing forward ever)
- Rebounding (Bigger, stronger, more effective on the glass)
- Longevity (Still elite at an unprecedented age)
Scoring
- Oscar Robertson:
- Career PPG (through age 34, to match Green's current age): 25.7
- Peak season: 30.8 PPG (1964)
- Versatile scorer capable of scoring in various ways, including mid-range shots and finishing at the rim.
- Career 49.5% FG, 32.0% 3PT, 78.5% FT.
- Draymond Green:
- Career PPG (through age 33): 8.7
- Peak season: 14.0 PPG (2017)
- More known for his playmaking and defense than scoring; primarily contributes through cuts, transition, and occasional three-point shots.
- Career 43.7% FG, 31.4% 3PT, 70.7% FT.
- EDGE: Oscar Robertson (Much higher scoring output and versatility as a scorer)
Efficiency
- Robertson:
- True Shooting %: 54.7%
- Effective FG%: 48.6%
- Efficient scorer for his era, especially given the scoring volume.
- Green:
- True Shooting %: 53.0%
- Effective FG%: 49.4%
- More efficient for a role player, but his scoring volume is much lower.
- EDGE: Oscar Robertson (Higher scoring efficiency for a much higher volume of shots)
Playmaking & Passing
- Robertson:
- Career APG: 9.5
- Elite passer for a guard, known for his ability to create opportunities for teammates.
- Often played the role of primary facilitator.
- Green:
- Career APG: 5.5
- Outstanding playmaker for a forward, acts as the hub of the Warriors' offense.
- Known for his court vision and ability to facilitate from the post or the perimeter.
- EDGE: Oscar Robertson (Superior playmaking and higher assist numbers)
Rebounding
- Robertson:
- Career RPG: 7.5
- Excellent rebounding guard; known for his ability to contribute on the boards.
- Green:
- Career RPG: 6.9
- Strong rebounder for his position, particularly effective in boxing out and grabbing defensive boards.
- EDGE: Oscar Robertson (Better rebounding for a guard compared to Green’s forward position)
Defense
- Robertson:
- Known as a solid defender during his career, but more recognized for offensive impact.
- Career averages of 1.0 SPG, 0.5 BPG.
- Green:
- 3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year.
- One of the best defenders of his generation, versatile enough to guard multiple positions.
- Career averages of 1.4 SPG, 1.0 BPG.
- EDGE: Draymond Green (Superior defender with multiple accolades)
Clutch Play & Leadership
- Robertson:
- Known for his competitive spirit, but did not have the same level of playoff success.
- 1× NBA Champion (1971) and noted for his all-around game in clutch situations.
- Green:
- 4× NBA Champion, known for his leadership on and off the court.
- Plays a pivotal role in crucial playoff moments with his defense and passing.
- EDGE: Draymond Green (More championships and a proven track record of leadership in clutch situations)
Championship Impact & Legacy
- Robertson:
- 1× NBA Champion, 3× All-NBA First Team, and a pioneer for the modern point guard.
- Known for the "triple-double" achievement and his overall impact on the game.
- Green:
- 4× NBA Champion, multiple All-Star selections, and considered a key player in the Warriors' dynasty.
- Renowned for his defensive skills and ability to impact games without scoring.
- EDGE: Draymond Green (More championships and impact on a modern dynasty)
Conclusion
- Oscar Robertson was better at:
- Scoring (Much higher scoring output and versatility)
- Playmaking (Superior assist numbers and playmaking ability)
- Rebounding (More impactful rebounding for a guard)
- Draymond Green was better at:
- Defense (Superior accolades and impact on that end of the floor)
- Clutch Play & Leadership (More championships and a key leader in crucial moments)
LeBron is age 40 and is playing center for the Lakers and just D'd up the MVP a night ago, but hot dog fingers insists Michael Jordan was a better defender. And he uses defensive team selections (which are subjective and media based) of proof of his prowesss over actual production. Faulty production that was proven false and exaggerated last year during his stat keeper cheat scandal story yahoo Sports exposed.
He also concludes Michael Jordan who shot worse from the field on every spot of the floor (in the paint, 3 point range, fast break) save for the midrange, where he has a slight edge in efficiency, and who scored 12,000 less points, is the better scorer than a guy who averaged 25+ for 21 consecutive seasons.
Michael Jordan is the most overrated NBA legend of all time because it's all based on mythology and lazy story telling and not a nuanced view of what he actually did.
Michael Jordan and Kobe's legacies rest completely on that story telling and playing in an easier era with less media scrutiny. If Kobe catches a rape charge today he doesn't become Kobe cuz hed be me too'd and demonized as a deviant like Diddy. But in the 2000's, because of story telling and favorable coverage, he became a sports hero.