Science Debate: Two Astrophysicists Debate Free Will
- Thread starter playahaitian
- Start date
Free will is an illusion. It doesn’t exist.
We are all consequence of a system already in motion.
Let’s start there because this a rabbit hole.
So people who "unalive" themselves.....aren't taking their lives in their own hands?
The system is designed for them to do that?
aight since its going there let me get this out the way
ole smart ass negro!
good one. u can say the events were already set. and what ever happens was meant to be. which means there is no free will
So if a person has an allergic reaction to medicine and passes...... that was meant to be?
yes by that logic. it was always meant to be for that person to die.
no matter what choices are made they will always get to that point
also 24 ask @4 Dimensional negro
he the scientist lol
But a doctor could've chosen from X (any) number of different meds to treat most patients.... but the system is set up for them to pick the exact one, that that patient is allergic to?
Absolutely. The system is design and set up perfectly for that to be an option.
Of course, the decision to commit suicide may seem come off like a free will decision, which I understand that.
But I have a tendency to look all the things that led up to that. For example, trauma that leads to depression. Or those pre-exposed to mental disorders.
But just because someone is predisposed to mental disorders it doesn't mean they will always hurt themselves or others.....
We like to think we are in control of our outcomes, but we aren’t. On a micro level we are to an extent, but those micro-levels are also mixed in with so many more elements that influence how we move.
True, but this isn’t as straightforward as harming yourself or others. It’s a greater consequence to the human decision.
The residual effects can be outcomes to other people’s decisions that affects you.
That’s chaos.
Chaos is unpredictable. On a universal scale we weren’t in control why we exist on this earth.
A preset of circumstances unfolds into chaos once an unpredictable element is introduced into the system.
It’s like how I predict the weather. I can warn that the tornado is coming, but once it’s there you’re in a chaotic moment. One that is out of your control. You run away based one whatever experiences you’ve learned in your life, but then a car falls on you out of no where.
Btw, this is a very open ended discussion. These opinions of mine are fluid. Lol
choices?.... there are no choices if there is no free will.
If there is a choice during chaos, then theoretically there is still the possibility of choice during non chaotic times.....no?
Possibly. Do you think choices and reactions are the same thing?
Depending on the circumstances yes and no....
It's like playing "chicken" is one deciding to go left or reacting to go right?
One could argue its a little of both.
But when we drive to the store, we're deciding which path to take out of X (any) number of options.....
But if we see a an obstacle or delayance up ahead, is it a choice or reaction to go another way?
I think they are completely different.
Making a choice is something you can foresee. A reaction is something instantaneous.
Of course I can’t quantify a boundary between a choice and reaction, but if I could I don’t think a nanosecond is enough to make a choice, so you react. Like a jump scare.
So when it comes to free will you’re still bounded by a much larger system that will influence how you move.
Again, on a micro-level I can see free will as meaningful, but on a macro-level humanity is bounded by a greater system already in motion making free will an illusion, imo.
What is the difference between action and reaction?
We can define action as an act of the will, something done or performed, or the accomplishment of a task. A reaction is defined as the way someone acts or feels in response to something that happens or is said. It is a response to some treatment, situation, or stimulus.
@4 Dimensional
We can define action as an act of the will, something done or performed, or the accomplishment of a task. A reaction is defined as the way someone acts or feels in response to something that happens or is said. It is a response to some treatment, situation, or stimulus.
@4 Dimensional
Key word for me is response.
Again bounded by a much larger system at work. Every subsequence reaction from a physical universal level to the human response is influence by something out of your control.
In numerical simulations, we start calculations with an initial set of conditions. These preset conditions are physical parameterizations (equations). The parameters are set if you believe in a God or have some scientific theoretical explanation (i.e., The Big Bang). Once the simulation begins calculations, the results are based on what those parameters represent (i.e., the evolution of humanity or Adam/Eve).
The problem with simulations is that we can't escape chaos in the system, or, as the Architect in "The Matrix" refers to it, 'free will.' But what's so beautiful is that no matter how much chaos entered the system, it was destroyed and reconstructed repeatedly. Again, free will is bounded by a more extensive system that influences people's decision-making on a micro-level. If an asteroid hits the earth, causing an ELE, your free will will vanish into dust.
However, to maintain sanity and a sense of purpose in our being here, we make these illusions real because they have real-life consequences. I have choices, and I believe I made the proper choices that allowed me to be the person I am today. My choices were well-informed decisions based on my circumstances in life. However, I wasn't always in control of the outcome. So, what is free will when you don't always have control of the outcome? An illusion. So, you accept or reject the results depending on the outcome. And sometimes, you don't have a choice between accepting or rejecting the result. You take the outcome as it is.
The problem with simulations is that we can't escape chaos in the system, or, as the Architect in "The Matrix" refers to it, 'free will.' But what's so beautiful is that no matter how much chaos entered the system, it was destroyed and reconstructed repeatedly. Again, free will is bounded by a more extensive system that influences people's decision-making on a micro-level. If an asteroid hits the earth, causing an ELE, your free will will vanish into dust.
However, to maintain sanity and a sense of purpose in our being here, we make these illusions real because they have real-life consequences. I have choices, and I believe I made the proper choices that allowed me to be the person I am today. My choices were well-informed decisions based on my circumstances in life. However, I wasn't always in control of the outcome. So, what is free will when you don't always have control of the outcome? An illusion. So, you accept or reject the results depending on the outcome. And sometimes, you don't have a choice between accepting or rejecting the result. You take the outcome as it is.
Spider-Man was saving those people in vain. Because if the rapture would have occurred during Spider-Man’s life then all that effort was moot.
Hopefully this thread is longer than all the other stupid threads where it's like "200 pages" (looking at you Kendrick/Drake beef thread, but i was there for it..lol) and we can have deep discussions about how we are on a porn board and how @HNIC was pre-ordained to create this board and we would be here at this very moment talking about this. Also will be interesting to discuss...if "August 11th" never happened...would retlaw still be here??
At this point, why do we get up everyday? Also, in your opinion, do you feel that you have "been here" before? This goes to what you mean when you say the system being reconstructed repeatedly?
Hopefully this thread is longer than all the other stupid threads where it's like "200 pages" (looking at you Kendrick/Drake beef thread, but i was there for it..lol) and we can have deep discussions about how we are on a porn board and how @HNIC was pre-ordained to create this board and we would be here at this very moment talking about this. Also will be interesting to discuss...if "August 11th" never happened...would retlaw still be here??
Lmaoooo
That’s why the system is such a machine, bruh. The amount of variables in place to distract us is necessary for the system to work.
Otherwise, we would be human.
Titties, sports, and beef threads. We ain’t got time for all this philosophical bullshit (as I go back to that Flat Earth thread)
We get up everyday because that’s what we are designed to do. Every being on this planet is given an opportunity. Granted, many folks get the shitty end of these opportunities but we are design to live, then die. However, our purpose while living is more of the residual effects from the larger system at hand, but constrained by your environment.
I don’t think we’ve “been here” before, but I do believe our self-conscious energy exist in infinite planes with infinite time references. Like the familiar feeling when you get when you have deja vu. It’s a familiar feeling like you’ve been here before, but more so choices that’s been made by an alternative you. It’s the self-conscious energy crossing paths with each other.
My reference to the system being rebuilt and destroyed was mostly about the Maxtrix movie and the machines trying to create a perfect system so humans will stop rejecting it.
Thank you sir! My biggest pathway on this is through dreams.
Didn't get a chance to watch the whole video, but I think life is a hybrid of the two, you do have choices but these choices are bound to retainers that are the consequence of the system already in motion.
Look at it this way, what if someone like Neil DeGras Tyson were to do something totally irrational and unpredictable, just to test the boundaries of free will, say he were to randomly smoke crack, well his actions may have been a derivative of his random decision, but even this random act result will be affected by the path of life already in motion, making his experience with crack different from the experience of someone smoking crack with a different background, the results may wind up similar but things like one having the supports system, money to either pay to get rehab or buy more crack will be effected differently due to the unique situations that they are in.
So basically in the big picture, we all wind up as worm food, what we do on our path between now in then has very little bearing in the long run so being free to do what you want, doesn't mean you are free to change the subjective results of your life but objectively speaking most of the subjective reality that we define as free will, dies when you are place six feet under. It's a little like this, all video game ever made concludes the same way, with you quitting either because you finished the game or because you got sick of playing, but it is inevitable that you eventually stop playing.