Steve Harvey's National Mentoring Camp: Natural Hair ≠ Success. Thoughts?

Camille

Kitchen Wench #TeamQuaid
Staff member
I'm hoping to find some videos footage of this. I came across some tweets and discussion about the event he held this past week. (You can normally click on he first tweet and follow the discussion down, but I posted several of the ones in the discussion because I know not everyone uses twitter.) Black hair and natural hair in general is always something unprofessional to be tamed. I know some black colleges do not want their students to have natural hair or locs, and with Anthony Mackie's comments last year this rubbed me the wrong way more than usual. Thoughts?



























 

gene cisco

Not A BGOL Eunuch
BGOL Investor
Sounds stupid as fuck IMHO. Unless it's against the dress code at the job, why would you cut your fucking hair? Simply tell children to respect the dress codes at their places of employment or schools. Fuck is this shit about cutting dreads or natural hair on some preemptive fuckery?
 

ballscout1

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
The bottom line is that there isn't a black society that will employ these young kids.

That is a problem in and of itself .

So if we have to work within the crakkas society there is going to be a level of compliance. at least to get your foot in the door.

One way around it is to be self-employed but that isn't the solution for the entire black population.

We need business that hire large amounts of employees.

It's that simple....and there are other things.

Like wearing a suit to an interview

The truth is the people who do the hiring have their own biases and pre-conceived ideas and notions.

Doesn't make them right but this isn't a situation of right and wrong it's a situation that they are who makes the decisions.

Until we don't have to work in environments that they control, there are games that have to be played
 

havelcok

Rising Star
Platinum Member
it depends. A lot of black boys walking around with hair likes shump and Derek rose or unkempt dreds like chief keef.

If you are going to rock a natural hair style
You should take care of it.
Once you get yourself on the career ladder then you can do what you want
 

Tha Great Muta

Rising Star
Platinum Member
Luckily I think alot of us are waking up to this bull shit. Having a hair cut isn't gonna get you hired or make you any less threating to white supremacy. We need to start teaching our kids to be entrepreneurs and hire each other from the jump. Enough of our children will succeed and hire people that look like them. The fact that you EXIST is a threat to them.
 

Hotlantan

Beep beep. Who's got the keys to the Jeep? VROOM!
OG Investor
Steve Perry already answered your "questions". If only single-issue critics had as much (any?) interest in the 99% rest of the National Mentoring Camp. :sad:

51c83ecb076f1dfa133d0e83b93a4f29
 
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Mentor B

"All literature is protest."
Registered
We want to do what is necessary to get our children working. But at the same time, we want to let them know having dreads, afros, and braids isn't a bad thing. It is our culture and should be embraced; however, teach them these practices scare bitch ass white people.

Therefore, we compromise ourselves temporarily to do what the fuck we want to do eventually.

That's the truth.

You have to teach them like that.

Unadulterated truth.
 

Camille

Kitchen Wench #TeamQuaid
Staff member
Steve Perry already answered your "questions". If only you had as much (any?) interest in the 99% rest of the National Mentoring Camp.

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I'm not trying to belittle the work he is doing with the kids. I also posted tweets from Mr. Perry in an effort to present both sides. I'm sure there was much more to the weekend than that one incident.

That said, I have been a part of many discussions about black women and hair, very few if any regarding men.

A lot of men here are older now and have their own sons and run their own businesses so I am interested in hearing their opinions, and also what they teach their own children. I may be more sensitive to this than the general public though, so I'm also looking for some perspective from men, as boys were the ones this incident applied to.
 

Tha Great Muta

Rising Star
Platinum Member
This is probably the wrong thread to mention this but I'll continue to use it for EVERY time someone mentions this: "Everybody can't be a boss,entrepreneur, open a business."

If more people(I mean us) TRIED to open a business wouldn't the percentage of us actually owning something go up just because more people tried??
 

34real

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
This goes deeper than anything that could be debated on twitter,internet,or a 10minute interview on television.

Steve Harvey did it for wealth and to take his career to the next level,those Dr. and people he has around him has done the same and what's going to happen to them if when their time has come and their star has fallen they will start to live and do whatever it is they choose and their words won't mean a damn thing.The cycle continues
 

JimJones

Rising Star
Registered
This was a army sponsored event, so of course they going to force the children to conform to their standards. I wonder if it had been a corporate sponsored event with Fortune 500 companies in attendance would the same have been true for the children needing to alter their appearance. Maybe not if the people whom they sent look just like the children in the program. They chose to address white refusal to hire blacks by seeing black hair as part of the problem, I wonder did they address white hatred of Black names did they offer all the young brothers new names. Rashad you are now Peter, Lavonjay you are now Michael.

This war we in have multiple fronts and because of that compromise is being made by different people at different points in the battle, the issue is not so much with Steve cosigning the cutting of these brothers hair but the fact that an idea exist out there that black hair some how determined or speaks to the work ethic of black people.
 

Camille

Kitchen Wench #TeamQuaid
Staff member
This goes deeper than anything that could be debated on twitter,internet,or a 10minute interview on television.

Steve Harvey did it for wealth and to take his career to the next level,those Dr. and people he has around him has done the same and what's going to happen to them if when their time has come and their star has fallen they will start to live and do whatever it is they choose and their words won't mean a damn thing.The cycle continues

I just have a problem with labeling what are natural attributes to us, hair texture, etc as inferior, unprofessional or something that needs to be corrected. We always asked to minimize, hide or erase our blackness. Women get it enough, I really don't want to see it spread to our young men as well. I think it bothers me more than the colleges who pushed this because the boys involved in this are so much younger.
 

Camille

Kitchen Wench #TeamQuaid
Staff member
This was a army sponsored event, so of course they going to force the children to conform to their standards. I wonder if it had been a corporate sponsored event with Fortune 500 companies in attendance would the same have been true for the children needing to alter their appearance. Maybe not if the people whom they sent look just like the children in the program. They chose to address white refusal to hire blacks by seeing black hair as part of the problem, I wonder did they address white hatred of Black names did they offer all the young brothers new names. Rashad you are now Peter, Lavonjay you are now Michael.

This war we in have multiple fronts and because of that compromise is being made by different people at different points in the battle, the issue is not so much with Steve cosigning the cutting of these brothers hair but the fact that an idea exist out there that black hair some how determined or speaks to the work ethic of black people.


There was a tweet later that said not all cut their hair:



But the thing that struck me initially was that aesthetics were being linked to success. If the succesful aesthetic was to eliminate dreds, braids, etc., then the correlation is that having dreds, braids, etc is a negative.
 

jasonblacc

Rising Star
Registered
I remember I heard Steve say on his show he wouldn't let his son get dreads because he wanted to be lawyer and he doesnt know any lawyers or good lawyers with dreads. Then he went on to say something about if you were in need of life saving surgery and the doctor walk in with braids or something would you want him to operate on you,


In my head I thought I wouldn't give a fuck as long as he knew what he was doing.
 

Camille

Kitchen Wench #TeamQuaid
Staff member
This was a army sponsored event, so of course they going to force the children to conform to their standards. I wonder if it had been a corporate sponsored event with Fortune 500 companies in attendance would the same have been true for the children needing to alter their appearance. Maybe not if the people whom they sent look just like the children in the program. They chose to address white refusal to hire blacks by seeing black hair as part of the problem, I wonder did they address white hatred of Black names did they offer all the young brothers new names. Rashad you are now Peter, Lavonjay you are now Michael.

This war we in have multiple fronts and because of that compromise is being made by different people at different points in the battle, the issue is not so much with Steve cosigning the cutting of these brothers hair but the fact that an idea exist out there that black hair some how determined or speaks to the work ethic of black people.


This is sort of long but this a blog post from when Anthony Mackie made his comments about his nephew wanting to grow locs, and it is somewhat related:

Anthony Mackie has been very vocal of late, giving his opinion on all sorts of nice things. I’ll let others address his political leanings, black panther comments, and acting industry opinions, but his criminalization of black men based on their hair style was not one that I could let pass.

In case you missed it, Mr. Mackie gave an interview with The Grio in which he stated:

“Like my nephew wanted to grow dreadlocs. I’m like fine, I’ll sit you down and I’ll watch The First 48 with you and everybody you see on that show, that’s doing something wrong, they’re black dudes with dreadlocs. So, do you want to be seen as part of the problem or do you want to be an individual?”

“Let’s just say you have locs and you walking down the street. The police pull you over and say you fit the description of somebody. You start yelling and arguing with the cops. Next thing you know you pressed up against the wall going to jail for something you’re not even involved in just because you look like somebody and you don’t know how to handle yourself.”

I have a few issues with this mindset:

First, black people are often seen as part of the problem, simply because we exist. If the police want to stop you when they are looking for a suspect, people who are fat, thin, short, tall, dark, medium, light, bald, and have locs will ALL get detained. We ALWAYS “fit the description”. It’s the blanket excuse to search and seize.

Secondly, black bodies have historically been judged and accorded privilege or disdain in relation to how well they line up with white culture and white/European beauty ideals. The lighter the skin, the straighter the hair, the better the job opportunities and advancement. Tomes have been written on colorism, racism and the black community. The frustration I feel when I see respectability espoused by black people, people who should have the EXPERIENCE of knowing the stereotypes aren’t collectively true, is indescribable.

I won’t even go into the irony of his taking away his nephews individuality by trying to force him to adopt a hairstyle that is in compliance to a different standard by giving the false choice of “being part of the problem or being an individual” in choosing to loc or not. It sounded like he was saying “Be like me if you want to be an individual.” Ahem.

Anyway….

I think many see black/African hair in it’s natural state as a threat, a sign of non-conformity. It’s a visual cue that you may not be a “tame negro”, which makes some people uncomfortable.

When negative connotations are associated with our natural hair, black women who do not have the curlier hair patterns are often assumed to be militant (BLACK POWER!!) or anti-establishment. Our sexuality may come under question. We are told repeatedly that our hair in it’s natural state is not professional. Even some colleges have banned natural hair in their business programs. Our children are being told at younger and younger ages that their natural physical attributes are unacceptable even though black children perform better when they have been taught “black pride”. By having parts of themselves outlawed, they are being encouraged to despise these traits in themselves and others around them. Our children are internalizing that they are inherently sub-par and defective, down to their DNA. We shouldn’t be penalized for embracing our natural hair, wearing it in styles to allow it to grow and display it’s unique texture and protecting ourselves from chemicals and heat damage. Period.

Finally, he is flat out WRONG.

The issue isn’t the hair, it is the over-policing of black and brown bodies and how we are portrayed in the media. If he is watching The First 48 and every young black man stopped has locs, it is because that is the style of the moment. If it was the early 80’s, they would have all had Jheri curls. If it were the mid 80’s to early 90’s they would have all had high top fades. While I have resisted the urge to tweet to Mr. Mackie every instance of a young black person who is shot or brutalized who did not have locs, I hope he comes to realize that being fashionable does not make you a criminal. This type of thinking may make you feel safe, that if you do x,y,z, you will be exempt from the brutality experienced by other black people, but ultimately respectability politics will always fail to protect us, and this is why we need diversity in media, behind and in front of the camera. For the record, neither James Blake, John Henson, Thabo Sefolosha or Henry Louis Gates, Jr., wore locs, or were in poor areas when they had their negative encounters with the police or racial profiling.

One of the reasons I have been happy to see the Obama family in the White House for the past 6 years is the symbolism they represent. A BLACK man, in charge, with a loving, intact family is normalized for our nation, who usually will only see black people and families portrayed as broken, lazy, uneducated and poor, seeking to leech off others. We need to see diversity in our stories: stories of success, joy, fun – just regular living. We have stories to be told about our triumphs and struggles related to life and overcoming things other than poverty and racism.

If the primary exposure someone has to black people is via media, which for the most part, dehumanizes us and displays us as hardened criminals and thugs, then when we have public encounters with them, these people are going to draw on what they know – negative stereotypes which reek of criminal tendencies – in interacting with us. Every movement we make becomes sinister in their minds. We are always “reaching for a weapon” or approaching someone with “evil intent”. So, whether it is a white woman locking her car doors, grabbing her purse closely, or someone calling the police because a black person held open the door for them, or are walking down the street, we are all affected. Black people in general bend over backwards to avoid making others feel uncomfortable: slow movements, soothing voices, and even going as far as to cross the street, and frankly I’m tired of it. As Mr. Mackie shows, it’s not just white people being influenced and buying into these negative stereotypes, and I think that’s the saddest part of it all.
 

mark115

Rising Star
Registered
The bottom line is that there isn't a black society that will employ these young kids.

That is a problem in and of itself .

So if we have to work within the crakkas society there is going to be a level of compliance. at least to get your foot in the door.

One way around it is to be self-employed but that isn't the solution for the entire black population.

We need business that hire large amounts of employees.

It's that simple....and there are other things.

Like wearing a suit to an interview

The truth is the people who do the hiring have their own biases and pre-conceived ideas and notions.

Doesn't make them right but this isn't a situation of right and wrong it's a situation that they are who makes the decisions.

Until we don't have to work in environments that they control, there are games that have to be played

Bro respectfully, That is cowardly logic. I do not understand how the prior generation thought they could defeat racism by giving into it and playing respectability politics. Ita a game where the goal posts are forever moving and so we will always loose.

The Natural texture of hair is not a style, hence the term natural. Workplace dress codes that start with the primise that whiteness is the norm and therby margilalize our hair and grooming methods that make since for us should be challenged in every way including in court.We should not be passing yet another unsolved problem to the next generation.
 

Mo-Better

The R&B Master
OG Investor
Sounds stupid as fuck IMHO. Unless it's against the dress code at the job, why would you cut your fucking hair? Simply tell children to respect the dress codes at their places of employment or schools. Fuck is this shit about cutting dreads or natural hair on some preemptive fuckery?


Lets be real about the world of white business. There's always a dress code especially when your looking for a job, even more if your black. Lets say you want to apply for a bank job. Better than 99% of the banks in the US are owned and operated by whites. Banks as is most businesses are concerned about their image. That said if you arrive for your job interview not respecting the business you have no shot at that job.The only exception I know of is the tech world.

Our mistake is we let our leisure life control too much of our lives. You don't show up wearing a tank top, jeans, shorts, sagging pants, Timbs, gold grills, flip-flops or bling hanging everywhere. Sweaters won't work either. Male or female YOU WEAR A SUIT OR A DRESS.

I believe Steve Harvey is trying to get our youth that's just graduating prepared for the business world. As I stated earlier, there's always a dress code and your appearance matters more than you can ever imagine. Sadly that also means your hair. So if your determined to wear dreads or braids your shit better be right.

When you show up you dress like you run the place not looking like you want a job. Suit and tie might not be our thing but if you want that job handle your business. Your the one who wants a job.
 
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