the OAU is headquartered in ETHIOPIA~/ uve never been to Ethiopia or AFRICA ! so pls keep ur "feelings" to urself dont speak for US
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CAMRON says he prefers to use the term Black American over African American because "Africans don't even f**k with us."
- Thread starter RUDY RAYYY MO
- Start date
the OAU is headquartered in ETHIOPIA~/ uve never been to Ethiopia or AFRICA ! so pls keep ur "feelings" to urself dont speak for US
u know nothing about "PanAfricanism" mostly bcos use never been involved in it, and that's fine but u dont speak for us who are!
once again this is the dumbest take !
like I say "ure fee to hate africans & I won't ask u not to bcos I dont care that u love Africa" but ure not free to make up lies & narrative to justify ur hate!
the fact that the
OAU
ECOWAS
ECOMOG
AU
exists ,completely & totally obliterates everything u have to say on the matter about PanAfricanism
and it lends credence to the fact that most ppl who identify with fba ados aren't intelligent travelled or well read..and def dont interact with the african diaspora, which would-be fine if they didn't create these lies & manufactured narratives to justify their hate of Africa! and we dont care that u hate Africa but dont lie why u hate it
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republicans /democrats , !protestants /catholic -Irish mob /Italian mob -jew lobby -polish neighborhoods German towns ...
nobody get upset ! u literally manufactured that narrative
" why do you non Black Americans get so upset when we speak on our CULTURE, True HISTORY from our families and experiences with you strangers from the continent of AFRICA?????? "
once again literally nobody is upset! WE DONT CARE! ! go & be whoever u wanna be ! just leave Africans out of it & the lies u manufacture to justify ur hate is why they respond!
actually I was with you for the most part until you said these things:
Thats why I asked why does it need to be either/or?
The United States of America is a country of immigrants...every single person comes from somewhere else. Everyone else can acknowledge that they come from some place else....why cant African Americans and it not be met with
by OTHER African Americans??Right now there are people making the legal argument for us for reparations and one of points of that argument should be LOSS OF IDENTITY. And the terms "Black" American and African (generalized) American speaks to that loss. This society and everyone in it needs to come to reckoning on what really happened to and the actual effect of its treatment one of its oldest and most LOYAL citizens have had to endure.
Black people/African Americans have fought and died for America even before it became America and while doing that was told repeatedly by America that their history and identity aint shit and its a waste of time learning about it..And theyve been told that from the day they ARRIVED HERE FROM SOMEPLACE ELSE in the 1600s all the way up to today where their descendants in the 21st CENTURY essentially say the SAME THING
I wasnt joking when I said you all THINK you made a choice when in fact your thinking and perceiving exactly the way society has programmed/indoctrinated us to.
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just gonna leave this here
What are you talking about. I said they are asking why black Americans get upset when Africans talk about their culture and say that black Americans are not African.
Dude you’re carrying a lot of emotional baggage With you.
Right. And on the census they all check white in this country. Thanks for proving my point.
Nicca all I did was post a live link at that time where people were calling to discuss that. I literally had no opinion about it cause it was live and it wasn’t even finished when I posted it. B
You got issues.
No where in the video does Camron say African don’t fuck with us. He say they don’t consider us African. The title to the video is click bait. I mentioned that about this thread also. At least I couldn’t find where he said that.
HA
I got a great great white grandfather I deny. What’s the problem.As most of us do. Nobody even know that nicca name
It’s crazy how it’s being made of race, when he talking about nationality.
Are you speaking about white people in general? Because I never elevated Cam'ron as a father of anything beyond his own children.
Even if he were the greatest rapper on earth his opinion is stupid. Expressing that opinion in an interview was beyond stupid.
Speaking of opinions, when did your personal music tastes become the international standard of Black Excellence? Did you write your likes and dislikes on a sacred scroll to be passed around the secret meetings of melanated people? If someone defies this holy tome are they still Black?
If so, thank you for educating me. Before today I never knew a racial group could be a monolith.
How is that relevant? My statement still stands
gtfohwtbs!!!
just cos someone claims to be panAfrican doesn't mean they are, wearing the garb & doing performative shit dont cut it & if u was ever truly PanAfrican them nothing will stop u from being one, becos she never was legit !!! ,
same as u & Tariq & Yvette claim to b pro-black American or whatever term u want then literally grift in its name & take position that are detrimental to the group!
so u carry water for this bitch spewing the worst xenophobic pro white supremacist shit and mocking African kids graduating high school all the way over there in Africa ? what's that gotta do with ur reparations or "ethnic advocacy" ?
same bitch who was praying to be married to a crakka & used to bed wench ?that AprilShowers?
this bitch ?mocking & dehumanizing kids graduating in high school all the way in africa.!whats that gotta do with ur reparations or ethnic advocacy ?
this dirty bitch ?
dummy u just proved my point !
do white people call themselves white in Europe?
and why would people who know their national origins not use it ?
You think most people know the difference?
Some of the realest shit in history was spoken on this show. That's basically why it had to go.
I really ain’t got the patience for this shit. I am talking about America where Europeans from different countries come “here” to live. They eliminate their nationality “here” and reference themselves as white “here”.
and white people don’t use it “here” because they would not make up the majority of the population “here” anymore if they identified individually by nationality. So instead of it being 65% white it would be 10% british 10% Scottish 10% German etc. that’s how they maintain power “here” by identifying as white instead of where they come from.
they have a saying called United we stand divided we fall. They unite under the banner of “white”. Here
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No shit. They were the criminals of Europe. And we speak broken English compared to England.
Whatever internal issues you may have around your identity, it's for you to resolve them. You can't try to flip it as if those who don't agree with your stance are somehow inadequate. I can't take pride in the unknown and for better or worse I identify with the culture we've built here.actually I was with you for the most part until you said these thing:
Thats why I asked why does it need to be either/or?
The United States of America is a country of immigrants...every single person comes from somewhere else. Everyone else can acknowledge that they come from some place else....why cant African Americans and it not be met with
Right now there are people making the legal argument for us for reparations and one of points of that argument should be LOSS OF IDENTITY. And the terms "Black" American and African (generalized) American speaks to that loss. This society and everyone in it needs to come to reckoning on what really happened to and the actual effect of its treatment one of its oldest and most LOYAL citizens have had to endure.
Black people/African Americans have fought and died for America even before it became America and while doing that was told repeatedly by America that their history and identity aint shit and its a waste of time learning about it..And theyve been told that from the day they ARRIVED HERE FROM SOMEPLACE ELSE in the 1600s all the way up to today where their descendants in the 21st CENTURY essentially say the SAME THING
I wasnt joking when I said you all THINK you made a choice when in fact your thinking and perceiving exactly the way society has programmed/indoctrinated us to.
Immigrants know exactly where they are from and have a defined history. Africa is not a country, so exactly where am I saying I'm from? Exactly what are you taking pride in by saying your family is descendants of Africa. If you found out you were part Japanese, would you claim that?what about the likely white blood you carry? Are all Jewish people the same? They have different subgroups that built slightly different cultures and follow slightly different traditions. Why take offense or question Black people who choose to primarily identify with the culture built in America? Especially considering we don't know our African lineage.you can acknowledge high level that your family came from Africa and still identify as Black culturally. Now, it's different if someone disrepects or doesn't acknowledge their African roots.
When you talk about being programmed or indoctrinated, it makes me believe you primarily focus on negative experiences and history. That may be why you feel this strong desire to connect to a place that has been presented as magical to us in our youths. Your whole life you were told about people who had the greatest minds, built the greatest structures and started civilization. It's understandable why you'd want to claim that history. However, you should try to focus on the successes we've made here. The architects, soldiers, scientists, politicians, doctors etc... that helped to build this country. That doesn't mean forgetting our full history.
As I said before, I'm sure most respect your choice even if they don't agree with it. Instead of being divisive, learn to appreciate the difference within our group as a whole.
but yall get mad when Africans come here & want to be identify as Africans or whatever country they come from but then turn around and say they anti BLACk & cant be BLACK ! so what is it? yall just like to talk down to the becos think u r superior and now that they barkin back yall have a problem !
these back nationalists think they have a stake or say in who runs shit in America ! they get these rightwing operation like fba & ados juicing there fickle brains with "replacement theory" jargon "these tethers r trying to replace us"Do you remember when James Bond wanted to define English-English?
Roger Moore Says Idris Elba Isn't 'English-English' Enough to Play Bond
Care to explain what you mean by that, Sir Moore?www.etonline.com
Watching beings that aren’t human and will never be humans muse on nationality is one of the most bewildering things I’ve ever seen. Oh you’re American? I guess I’m blessed. I’ve been colonized by the Spanish, the French, and finally the British.
Do yall celebrate Juneteenth? I would hope yall don’t. You jokers will never be American-American. Because you’re not Americans. Yall are fucking slaves. Keep playing Divide and Conquer and losing. These people keep telling you the truth but yall think Massa just trippin.
BGOL where everyone is an intellect, especially on African Vs. African/Black American history.
But at the end of the day you must ask yourself, what have you achieved by welcoming or rejecting other people that look like you?
But at the end of the day you must ask yourself, what have you achieved by welcoming or rejecting other people that look like you?
alright...a good response and didn't have to curse or anything...thank you. 
you said a lot to unpack so i'll take it point by point for clarity.
that's the issue for me. that's what's happening in this thread. That's what Camron and Smokey did in their statements. they refuse to acknowledge their African roots by saying that African American is wrong or at the very least inaccurate as an identifier. And even if they're saying its just for them the near indignation they show at being called African American is pretty much like trans people being angry when someone misgenders them. Its akin to "my pronouns are..."
As much as I admire and am a fan of Freeman...he clearly has no understanding of why African-American is the most accurate identity for the us. It speaks to the loss of our proper identity. (for the record I don't have a problem with Black American but African American is more accurate)
As far as the Jewish example...yes there different sects Ashkenazim, Sephardic Jews, Bukharan Jews, Haredim, Mizrahi Jews etc and they all have specific cultures to them. And do you know what YOU call them... JEWS. generic and generalized.
I take pride in the fact that our people came here from west Africa, a place that has many cultures and religions and languages just like everyone else who came here.
And I understand that most people in America are mixed.. .hell all African Americans have at least a quarter of European dna in their background but most don't claim it because it doesn't show it in their features.
Someone posted there's a difference between nationality and race but in AMERICAN society and western CULTURE those things are intertwined. Europeans created the concept of race then promoted it world wide backed up by violence. And its such an enduring thing that if you say Africans ARE NOT BLACK (and they aren't) you'll be met with crazy looks...even by Africans (I have from people on this board and twitter and in RT) And I've explained numerous times on this board why that IS.
People in Sub-Saharan Africa aren't black. They are Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Kikuyu etc... Those are specific ethnic groups. It's not that they aren't just black... they aren't black at all. Africans aren't black as black and white are race terms and European concepts that's a purely social construct. It has socio-political value in western culture. And really doesn't apply to Africans in the way it applies to the American descendants of the enslaved Africans.
At one time people called Asians Orientals but its not done today because not only is it offensive its inaccurate. I contend that calling Africans black is inaccurate as well. And African American is more accurate than Black too.
Either by outright saying so or by just omitting any info on it in school. Sometimes its not just what your told... its what you're NOT told as well that shapes how you think of things.
The greatest structures and started civilization.... thats how Egypt and the countries around the Mesopotamia are described... that's on the OTHER side of Africa.
And because Africans Americans lost our connection to our heritage, language religion etc its why you see us searching for ANYTHING to connect to and feel positive about ourselves whether that's Asiatic, Moorish, Egypt or redefining a skin color designation whose original purpose was for oppression and subjugation.
You said I'm focusing too much on negative experiences and history...
When all your taught in a racist system is that you come from nothing and produce nothing...you start looking for yourself in everything. Hence Hebrew Israelites and Moors and Egypt and pretty much anything that exhibits thick lips and dark complexion.
The vast majority of the Black experience in American history has been negative.
When white America talks about freedom and liberty they talk about fighting against THEM... and THEY are always some foreign entity trying to destroy the US. And America loves to recount how we defeated THEM! The British, The French, The Indians, The Mexicans, The Germans, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and now Muslims...its always THEM...OVER THERE We LOVE talking about and recreating it and studying it in school.
But that's not Black People's story in America. When Black Americans talk about fighting for liberty and freedom the THEM that had to be defeated was... WHITE AMERICANS! That's what the Civil War was...its what Juneteenth means...that's what Lift Every Voice means. that's why there's such a push to sanitize the history books and suppress the song.
It's why in movies Black people can't be JUST THE HERO in any story you want to tell that includes American history.
For example, we all agree that Nazis are the perfect villains. Nazis make storytelling simple...Nazis BAD... Americans GOOD. You don't need nuance for that..its understood. So when you tell the story of white Americans fighting Nazis its EASY! They go over to Europe...they beat Nazi ass...they either make the noble sacrifice (Saving Private Ryan) or they get the girl and fall in love (many WW2 war movies)...THE END. See...that white American man was just the hero...he had no further conflicts or issues beyond that and watching that kind of movie, all you have to do is just have sit back and enjoy the adventure and action.
White people get...HE FOUGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY!
Not so simple for Black men or POC in WW2 movies. We don't get to be JUST the hero. We get.... HE HAD TO FIGHT HIS COUNTRY IN ORDER TO FIGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY! A Black American fighting Nazis means...he gets treated like shit by White Americans at boot camp. He goes to Europe and gets treated like shit by whites Americans and Europeans. He kicks Nazi ass. He doesn't get the girl and if you want to end with an epilogue then he comes home only to get treated like shit by white Americans again... in the country he just fought for. That really happened.
That's the story of black soldiers in America....from the time of the colonies in 1600s all the way up to about 1988 (the first Gulf War) where black soldiers weren't openly fucked over by the military and their own country. America is 246 years old and only in the last 30 years or so can black soldiers be JUST THE HERO like white ones and you're telling me to accent the positive and eliminate the negative.
Black means African and white means European but those designations were applied by Europeans for the specific purpose of justifying how they were going to treat people. Those terms were designed for the othering of a group to justify slavery, colonialism etc. And all of the hatred, disparities and issues we're dealing with TO THIS DAY goes back directly to the ORIGINAL purpose of those terms in race science.
You can't take issue with RACIAL INJUSTICE in America without looking at the concept of RACE and how it was INVENTED and how its supposed to function. Racial injustice isn't indicative of a broken system.... its how the system is suppose to work. And that system is STILL working today. And it starts with black and white.
If you take the negativity out of it and dismiss the fact that race is not biological but an arbitrary social construct designed to oppress people then you are actually letting the people who created and perpetuated that shit off the hook!
We can try to REPURPOSE those terms to make us FEEL better about ourselves but we STILL need to deal with the ORIGINAL root of the cause of all these issues...where they come from and how deeply ingrained it is in the CULTURE of our society. (something CRT tries to do that cacs are afraid of).
you said a lot to unpack so i'll take it point by point for clarity.
to deny or ignore that you came from somewhere when its not only clear but common sense is being willfully myopic. The story of Black Americans should be they came from countries in West Africa thru the Atlantic Slave trade. Were stripped of their identities and given a color designation. And while that is told to some degree...white America largely downplays it and black people downplay it too...That's why AFRICAN American is more accurate to our identity. It speaks more precisely to who we are. The general term African points to that. Black does as well but its a color with no history attached... which is its purpose. At least African gives you an idea of something regarding a real place in the world whether you know the specifics or not.
that's the issue for me. that's what's happening in this thread. That's what Camron and Smokey did in their statements. they refuse to acknowledge their African roots by saying that African American is wrong or at the very least inaccurate as an identifier. And even if they're saying its just for them the near indignation they show at being called African American is pretty much like trans people being angry when someone misgenders them. Its akin to "my pronouns are..."
Morgan Freeman: it’s an insult to be called African-American
‘African-American’ is an insult. I don’t subscribe to that title,” continued Freeman. “Black people have had different titles all the way back to the n-word and I do not know how these things get such a grip, but everyone uses ‘African-American.’ What does it really mean?”As much as I admire and am a fan of Freeman...he clearly has no understanding of why African-American is the most accurate identity for the us. It speaks to the loss of our proper identity. (for the record I don't have a problem with Black American but African American is more accurate)
As far as the Jewish example...yes there different sects Ashkenazim, Sephardic Jews, Bukharan Jews, Haredim, Mizrahi Jews etc and they all have specific cultures to them. And do you know what YOU call them... JEWS. generic and generalized.
I take pride in the fact that our people came here from west Africa, a place that has many cultures and religions and languages just like everyone else who came here.
And I understand that most people in America are mixed.. .hell all African Americans have at least a quarter of European dna in their background but most don't claim it because it doesn't show it in their features.
Someone posted there's a difference between nationality and race but in AMERICAN society and western CULTURE those things are intertwined. Europeans created the concept of race then promoted it world wide backed up by violence. And its such an enduring thing that if you say Africans ARE NOT BLACK (and they aren't) you'll be met with crazy looks...even by Africans (I have from people on this board and twitter and in RT) And I've explained numerous times on this board why that IS.
People in Sub-Saharan Africa aren't black. They are Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Kikuyu etc... Those are specific ethnic groups. It's not that they aren't just black... they aren't black at all. Africans aren't black as black and white are race terms and European concepts that's a purely social construct. It has socio-political value in western culture. And really doesn't apply to Africans in the way it applies to the American descendants of the enslaved Africans.
At one time people called Asians Orientals but its not done today because not only is it offensive its inaccurate. I contend that calling Africans black is inaccurate as well. And African American is more accurate than Black too.
I don't think Africa is a "magical" place at all. To the contrary...NO ONE EVER TALKS ABOUT THE WEST AFRICAN COUNTRIES those enslaved people came from. Except to point out how complicit those countries were in the Atlantic slave trade or how poor, backward and third world they are. So I have no magical illusions about that part of the world...Thats what America taught us.
Either by outright saying so or by just omitting any info on it in school. Sometimes its not just what your told... its what you're NOT told as well that shapes how you think of things.
The greatest structures and started civilization.... thats how Egypt and the countries around the Mesopotamia are described... that's on the OTHER side of Africa.
And because Africans Americans lost our connection to our heritage, language religion etc its why you see us searching for ANYTHING to connect to and feel positive about ourselves whether that's Asiatic, Moorish, Egypt or redefining a skin color designation whose original purpose was for oppression and subjugation.
You said I'm focusing too much on negative experiences and history...
When all your taught in a racist system is that you come from nothing and produce nothing...you start looking for yourself in everything. Hence Hebrew Israelites and Moors and Egypt and pretty much anything that exhibits thick lips and dark complexion.
The vast majority of the Black experience in American history has been negative.
When white America talks about freedom and liberty they talk about fighting against THEM... and THEY are always some foreign entity trying to destroy the US. And America loves to recount how we defeated THEM! The British, The French, The Indians, The Mexicans, The Germans, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and now Muslims...its always THEM...OVER THERE We LOVE talking about and recreating it and studying it in school.
But that's not Black People's story in America. When Black Americans talk about fighting for liberty and freedom the THEM that had to be defeated was... WHITE AMERICANS! That's what the Civil War was...its what Juneteenth means...that's what Lift Every Voice means. that's why there's such a push to sanitize the history books and suppress the song.
It's why in movies Black people can't be JUST THE HERO in any story you want to tell that includes American history.
For example, we all agree that Nazis are the perfect villains. Nazis make storytelling simple...Nazis BAD... Americans GOOD. You don't need nuance for that..its understood. So when you tell the story of white Americans fighting Nazis its EASY! They go over to Europe...they beat Nazi ass...they either make the noble sacrifice (Saving Private Ryan) or they get the girl and fall in love (many WW2 war movies)...THE END. See...that white American man was just the hero...he had no further conflicts or issues beyond that and watching that kind of movie, all you have to do is just have sit back and enjoy the adventure and action.
White people get...HE FOUGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY!
Not so simple for Black men or POC in WW2 movies. We don't get to be JUST the hero. We get.... HE HAD TO FIGHT HIS COUNTRY IN ORDER TO FIGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY! A Black American fighting Nazis means...he gets treated like shit by White Americans at boot camp. He goes to Europe and gets treated like shit by whites Americans and Europeans. He kicks Nazi ass. He doesn't get the girl and if you want to end with an epilogue then he comes home only to get treated like shit by white Americans again... in the country he just fought for. That really happened.
That's the story of black soldiers in America....from the time of the colonies in 1600s all the way up to about 1988 (the first Gulf War) where black soldiers weren't openly fucked over by the military and their own country. America is 246 years old and only in the last 30 years or so can black soldiers be JUST THE HERO like white ones and you're telling me to accent the positive and eliminate the negative.
Black means African and white means European but those designations were applied by Europeans for the specific purpose of justifying how they were going to treat people. Those terms were designed for the othering of a group to justify slavery, colonialism etc. And all of the hatred, disparities and issues we're dealing with TO THIS DAY goes back directly to the ORIGINAL purpose of those terms in race science.
You can't take issue with RACIAL INJUSTICE in America without looking at the concept of RACE and how it was INVENTED and how its supposed to function. Racial injustice isn't indicative of a broken system.... its how the system is suppose to work. And that system is STILL working today. And it starts with black and white.
If you take the negativity out of it and dismiss the fact that race is not biological but an arbitrary social construct designed to oppress people then you are actually letting the people who created and perpetuated that shit off the hook!
We can try to REPURPOSE those terms to make us FEEL better about ourselves but we STILL need to deal with the ORIGINAL root of the cause of all these issues...where they come from and how deeply ingrained it is in the CULTURE of our society. (something CRT tries to do that cacs are afraid of).
I'm not being divisive... I'm trying to get to the heart of how people come to the conclusions and perspective they have and see how it matches up with history and reality and so far what I've gotten is feelings and beliefs not facts and history.
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alright...a good response and didn't have to curse or anything...thank you.
you said a lot to unpack so i'll take it point by point for clarity.
to deny or ignore that you came from somewhere when its not only clear but common sense is being willfully myopic. The story of Black Americans should be they came from countries in West Africa thru the Atlantic Slave trade..were stripped of their identities and given a color designation. And while that is told to some degree...white america largely downplays it and black people downplay it too...Thats why AFRICAN American is more accurate to our identity. It speaks more precisely to who we are. The general term African points to that. Black does as well but its a color with no history attached... which is its purpose. At least African gives you an idea of something regarding a real place in the world whether you know the specifics or not.
thats the issue for me. thats whats happening in this thread. Thats what camron and smokey did in their statements. they refuse to acknowledge their african roots by saying that African American is wrong or at the very least inaccurate as an identifier. And even if theyre saying its just for them the near indignation they show at being called African American is pretty much like trans people being angry when someone misgenders them. Its akin to "my pronouns are..."
Morgan Freeman: it’s an insult to be called African-American
‘African-American’ is an insult. I don’t subscribe to that title,” continued Freeman. “Black people have had different titles all the way back to the n-word and I do not know how these things get such a grip, but everyone uses ‘African-American.’ What does it really mean?”
As much as I admire and am a fan of Freeman...he clearly has no understanding of why African-American is the most accurate identity for the us. It speaks to the loss of our proper identity. (for the record I dont have a problem with Black American but African American is more accurate)
As far as the Jewish example...yes there different sects Ashkenazim, Sephardic Jews, Bukharan Jews, Haredim, Mizrahi Jews etc.. and do you know what YOU call them... JEWS. generic and generalized.
I take pride in the fact that our people came here from west africa, a place that has many cultures and religions and languages just like everyone else who came here.
And I understand that most people in america are mixed..hell all African Americans have at least a quarter of european dna in their background most dont claim it because they dont show it in their features.
Someone posted theres a difference between nationality and race but in AMERICAN society and western CULTURE those things are intertwined. Europeans created the concept of race then promoted it world wide backed up by violence. And its such an enduring thing that if you say Africans ARE NOT BLACK (and they aren't) you'll be met with crazy looks...even by Africans (I have from people on this board and twitter and in RT) And I've explained numerous times on this board why that IS.
People in Sub-Saharan Africa aren't black. They are Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, Kikuyu etc... Those are specific ethnic groups. It's not that they aren't just black... they aren't black at all. Africans aren't black as black and white are race terms and european concepts thats a purely social construct. It has socio-political value in western culture. And really doesn't apply to africans in the way it applies to the american descendants of the african slaves.
At one time people called asians orientals but its not done today because not only is it offensive its inaccurate. I contend that calling africans black is inaccurate as well. And African American is more accurate than Black too.
I dont think Africa is a "magical" place at all. To the contrary...NO ONE EVER TALKS ABOUT THE WEST AFRICAN COUNTRIES those enslaved people came from. Except to point how complicit those countries were in the Atlantic slave trade. or how poor, backward and third world they are. So I have no magical illusions about that part of the world...Thats what America taught us.
Either by outright saying so or by just omitting any info on it in school. Sometimes its not just what your told... its what youre NOT told as well that shapes how you think of things.
The greatest structures and started civilization.... thats how Egypt and the countries around the Mesopotamia are described... thats on the OTHER side of Africa.
And because Africans Americans lost our connection to our heritage, language religion etc its why you see us searching for ANYTHING to connect to and feel positive about ourselves whether thats asiatic, moorish, egypt or redefining a skin color designation whose original purpose was for oppression and subjugation.
You said I'm focusing too much on negative experiences and history...
When all your taught in a racist system is that you come from nothing and produce nothing...you start looking for yourself in everything. Hence Hebrew Israelites and Moors and Egypt and pretty much anything that exhibits thick lips and dark complexion.
The vast majority of the Black experience in American history has been negative.
America prides itself in its ability and achievements in getting its land and independence by kicking THEIR asses! America's THEY and THEM was the British and French and Mexicans and Indians. Those are the THEY that lives across an ocean or hundreds of miles away from the settlers in South America. America kicked THEYRE asses and here WE are!!!
But thats not Black People story in America. In order for US to celebrate where we are in this world we had to fight WHITE AMERICANS. Thats our THEY Thats what the Civil War was..thats what Juneteenth was about.
Thats why in movies Black people can't be JUST THE HERO in any story you want to tell that includes American history.
For example, we all agree that Nazis are the perfect villains. Nazis make storytelling simple...Nazis BAD... Americans GOOD. You don't need nuance for that..its understood. So when you tell the story of white Americans fighting Nazis its EASY! They go over to Europe...they beat Nazi ass...they either make the noble sacrifice (Saving Private Ryan) or they get the girl and fall in love (many WW2 war movies)...THE END. See...that white American man was just the hero...he had no further conflicts or issues beyond that and watching that kind of movie, all you have to do is just have sit back and enjoy the adventure and action.
White people get...HE FOUGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY!
Not so simple for Black men or POC in WW2 movies. We dont get to be JUST the hero. We get..HE HAD TO FIGHT HIS COUNTRY IN ORDER TO FIGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY! A Black American fighting nazis means...he gets treated like shit by White Americans at boot camp. He goes to Europe and gets treated like shit by whites Americans and Europeans. He kicks Nazi ass. He doesn't get the girl and if you want to end with an epilogue then he comes home only to get treated like shit by white Americans again... in the country he just fought for. That really happened.
Thats the story of black soldiers in America....from the time of the colonies in 1600s all the way up to about 1988 (the first Gulf War) where black soldiers werent openly fucked over by the military and their own country. America is only 246 years old and only in the 30 years or so can black soldiers be JUST THE HERO like white ones and youre telling me to accent the positive and eliminate the negative.
Black means African and white means European but those designations were applied by Europeans for the specific purpose of justifying how they were going to treat people. Those terms were designed for the othering of a group to justify slavery, colonialism etc and all of the hatred, disparities and issues we're dealing with TO THIS DAY goes back directly to the ORIGINAL purpose of those terms in race science.
You can't take issue with RACIAL INJUSTICE in america without looking at the concept of RACE and how it was INVENTED and how its supposed to function. Racial injustice isn't indicative of a broken system.... its how the system is suppose to work. And that system is STILL working today. And it starts with black and white.
If you take the negativity out of it and dismiss the fact that race is not biological but an arbitrary social construct designed to oppress people then you are actually letting the people who created and perpetuated that shit off the hook!
We can try to REPURPOSE those terms to make us FEEL better about ourselves but we STILL need to deal with the ORIGINAL root of the cause of all these issues...where they come from and how deeply ingrained it is in the CULTURE of our society. (something CRT tries to do that cacs are afraid of).
I'm not being divisive... I'm trying to get to the heart of how people come to the conclusions and perspective they have and see how it matches up with history and reality and so far what I've gotten is feelings and beliefs not facts and history.
With everything you've said, you proved my point on multiple fronts. You are the one making it an either or thing instead of being inclusive. Clearly, I'm not going to touch all of your points.
When I say magical, I'm speaking to Black people wanting their kids to feel like they were more than slaves, were not less than and a part of something greater. How was this done. By saying your people come from a different place were we ruled. It has nothing to do with the reality of Africa. It's the same way that you've heard foreigners talk about the US having gold roads. Africa was used to inspire us and not focus on the negative aspects of our history in the US. it can also be argued that you don't think highly of your people's achievements here by going that route, but I understand the general premise.
Just because on average Jews are not broken down by their subgroups does not change the fact that it exists. It's the same way Christianity has different subgroups. If you ask someone in my family, they would say they are Christians who are Baptist. If they were a discussion at a higher level they'd likely respond to being called a Christian in general. There are differences between the groups and someone outside of the groups may not care. It doesn't change the facts. The same can be true for those who align with the African American vs Black stance. Most people who prefer Black still have the same mindset as you overall.
You are divisive. Unlike my stance of I respect your choice and while I don't agree with it I have no desire to change your opinion or convert you. You are literally saying you are wrong and don't accept the thought of not having Africa as the center of the culture. This leads to two groups of people having friction and conflict. You talk about me not using profanity while also saying you'll are being tricked. Do you see the difference in how we are approaching this discussion? If you were talking to someone more passionate about the subject, it would likely turn into disrespectful comments back and forth. You are creating a divide in the larger group.your original question was why does it have to be either or, but clearly that isn't your true stance. You literally want it one way.im the person saying it can be both.
You notice how you are hyper focused on negative shit and seemingly downplay the Black experience that you could take pride in. Then you go into the idea of race being made up. If that's the case, you shouldn't care about being called African American. The names for groups change all the time right? So why care? Groups have had names since the beginning of time to identify themselves. Stop giving White people so much power over you. If you want to argue we didn't create the name of the group, that is as far as that goes. Ironically, when people did create names or even holidays some of the response from our own was negative. Why? Because the Whites wouldn't accept it, it's made up and it makes your life harder. If your issue is the White man created your group name, create a new one for us to debate over. Furthermore, if you are in agreement that everyone isn't black ethically speaking, you proved my point. You don't know what group your people come from in Africa. Claiming Africa culturally makes little sense using your logic.
Instead of reflecting on those who were architects or inventors etc... you choose to focus on negative aspects of those who took part in the military. Which could be taken as disrespectful to those individuals.while I'm sure they'd speak on the negative aspects, I know most took pride in the part they played in history. Instead of viewing them as protecting White interests, why not consider they wanted to ensure Black people were protected even if it was on a small level. Military aside you are ignoring and downplaying the history you know or could know for an ideal that you can't speak to. I never said we as a people should ignore the negative aspects of our history. I said you are focused solely on the negativity which is why you cling to Africa.
While it is highly likely most of us are descendants of slaves, you don't know that. That goes back to the point of not knowing where in Africa you are from and your family's history. As you stated, there are multiple languages, cultures etc.. again which one am I choosing? You can pay homage to Africa without claiming it's culture which is vast and not one.
Instead of depending on a school to teach you our culture, why don't you teach your family and friends. That is what it means to have a culture and history. That's a key fundamental difference between us and other groups. For better or worse they teach the kids about their traditions, history and culture. The average school doesn't teach religion yet some how we are still taught right? At a family gathering, you could easily take the time to teach your family about the culture and history. For example, during family reunions my father would take us on a tour of his town and tell his history their. You don't need a school to educate your family and we should be taking ownership.that way the negative aspects you like to reflect on aren't loss to the future generations and our history isn't rewritten because racist decide to remove certain curriculum or books from the classroom as limited as they are to begin with.
I don't believe isn't necessarily to be disrespect anyone, but Africans don't view us as them. At least not the ones I know and are cool with. If you claim it they are going to ask questions related to culture, language and history. When you can't answer, they are going to give you the side eye. That doesn't mean they won't include you or even teach you about their culture. They'll even say you should visit their respective country and consider you a brother or sister as in acknowledge the history. However, that doesn't mean you can say you are Ghanaian. Im speaking to culture and for me that is not Africa.