"The other groups have super pacs, lobbyists and everything else, organized and they don't give the dems peace until they get what they want."
AND THIS IS THE SAME GODDAMNED THING WE ARE SAYING BLACK PEOPLE SHOULD DO!!
"And they don't just go after dems, they go after the GOP also to get rid of anyone not with their agenda, if they can."
Hardcore feminists, LGBTQ, tranny crusaders and others don't aggressively target the GOP. But they do advocate for THEMSELVES in the media and other venues.
Where the fuck are you getting this from? We're trying to do exactly what you're saying. YOU'RE the ones saying just "go vote" with no kind of agenda for Biden/Harris, and no analysis of their current agenda.
The time to do all this is during the primary to get the best candidate you can. Once the match is set, you vote for the one who most lines up to your ideals and who is most likely to be pressed to your agenda once elected. If Biden doesn't get elected and doesn't get a majority Congress, you have at least 4 more years before this is addressed and thats 8 years of damage that has to be undone for issues that effect all Americans and not just black Americans.
We aren't going to have money for basic stuff if those tax cuts don't get rolled back.
I've said all this and more before.
Now is the time and it's time to vet candidates, but folks are dismissing her before she has even had a chance to address anything. It's in the general that it's too late to do anything. We already know most republicans are full of shit. Once the general hits, the choice is a dem or 4 more years of Trump. Tearing her down and attacking her at this point isn't constructive. She also has been very effective in the senate, and needs support in that capacity.
There is a time and place for strategy, but Donald Trump is too big a danger to protest vote or sit out. You'd think the sheer number of heathens we have who complain about white mans religion, would vote if for no other reason than to have a party who understands church and state are separate and keeping religious zealots out the WH. Trump isn't a zealot, but they support him and are the reason he is in office.
Even when your protest vote tho, there needs to be strategy. You vote for the opponent or do a coordinated write in protest in large enough numbers that it gets noticed. I detailed that in the post I quoted below.
Thank you!!!
It seems like a lot of folks don't know how things work. Voting, lobbying and contributions are the forms of political currency that politicians understand. Just like in regular life, you can't obtain anything or get a return unless you spend or invest said currency.
These folks don't want to vote or have anyone else vote, don't want to lobby anyone but democrats, half-assed at that, and don't want to contribute to candidates or form a superpac to put pressure on folks, yet expect magically get their agenda passed.
All the other groups they talk about getting "tangibles" have lobbyists that keep their issue in the face of elected officials, give money to people who support their agenda, and are very well organized to deliver or withhold votes to sway elections. They will vote for you or against you, but they rarely sit it out.
It wouldn't be so bad, but the tea party gave us the blue print. They sort of started out organically, but they weren't true grassroots, they were astroturfed. They had dark money being funneled to them via Americans for Prosperity and other groups buying them nice tour busses and allowing them to travel and keep discontent going.
When they realized the GOP was just using them to harness their energy to keep opposition to Obama in the headlines, and wasn't really trying to overturn roe vs wade, they showed the eff out. They had been legitimized by the GOP, who winked at their racism, saying they didn't agree with it but oh free speech. They started primarying establishment GOP with true believers, won the seats, and Congress had to kiss their asses for several years and there are still a few left causing problems to this day.
What they DIDN'T do, is sit out. If their candidate lost they still voted GOP because stopping Obama and the democrat agenda was still more important when it came down to a Republican and a dem.
Not showing up does nothing but reinforce the belief that black folks don't participate, aren't engaged, and can't be relied upon.
We have self described non voters suddenly going around here proclaiming they are going to not vote and encouraging others not to vote. It's like folks who proclaim they are boycotting Starbucks, or the most recent offender to black folks, when we don't patronize them in the first place. Your absence can't be noted if you've never shown up in the first place. You can't affect someone's bottom line or effect an outcome by non participation when you weren't participating to begin with.
I'm not against protest or third party voting, it can be very effective if used properly. I didn't advocate for it in 2016 because it was clear to me that Trump was a serious danger, and I don't advocate 3rd party voting now for the same reason. We don't just need our Presidential candidate to win, we need clear majorities in both houses for more than one year, or even one term, to roll back Trumps fuckery and move forward on a progressive agenda.
These are not normal times and it is far too important to get rid of Trump along with Stephen Miller, who is a clear threat to black folks and other PoC. However, I would have a lot more respect for ADOS if they were organizing folks to show up and write in the same name, something like "Reparations Candidate". Names that garner at least 1% of the vote are usually listed on tv by name. Seeing that you are showing up but spending your money elsewhere, gets attention and causes you to be courted to see how they can gain your business. Even picking a GOP or Dem candidate to support and then pulling support because they didn't do XYZ and causing them to lose next cycle will get attention and your vote courted.
All this "we aren't going to do anything but demand what we want" is nonsense. Other groups demand also but they exercise their power to make or break a candidate. Ados, or at least the ones acting as a mouth piece for the movement, aren't serious. All they are doing is sowing discontent and dividing black folks. They have no plan to actually achieve their goal. I've seen no effective strategy at all. Or at least they haven't been able to articulate one. All they seem to want to do is be seen running the Oppression Olympics, telling everyone how shitty black folks have been and still are being treated in comparison to everyone else. Even if we win that race, we still lose.
I understand this sentiment, but what you are advocating means that we still have white people making laws and passing judgements that affect black and other citizens who are poc.
Under President Obama fewer white men have been appointed as federal judges than any other president.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-federal-judges-has-plummeted-under-obama/
I'm also very happy with his appointment of women to the Supreme court. They were on it when it came to the discussion of abortion and reproductive rights. The men on the court blindly accepted what was told to them, the women pushed back and knew what questions to ask. ( There was a better summary somewhere but here is a link it has the transcripts https://www.yahoo.com/news/best-moments-scotus-abortion-case-164800700.html)
You have to have people who look like you, experience what you do, and who have similar self interests (for themselves, their families, their communities etc) in positions of power. Otherwise you are always in a position of begging someone else to help you, or having to educate someone else on what your needs are (as far as our legal/political system goes). I'm all for supporting black business, and addressing community needs within the community, but there are outside forces that affect us no matter how well that has been done in the past. Black Wall Street, Tulsa etc were thriving self-sufficient black communities, who had no power or legal recourse when outside forces came in and destroyed all that they worked for and accomplished. I don't believe everything is either/or. It's both/and plus more when it comes to solving issues and thriving. We can self mobilize, strive for self reliance, and infiltrate all at the same time.
Interesting.
OK. I'm going to go back and address the main point we've been discussing then I'll get to Breitbart.
You hate Hillary so much now that I'm assuming you didn't want her elected 8 years ago either, so lets theorize what would have most likely happened under a McCain presidency.
Had McCain been running against Hillary, most of the racial animosity would not have surfaced, so lets assume he was running against Obama and won. White nationalism was already surfacing at the McCain/Palin rallies. Some reminders of what was going on back then:
Now, Obama and McCain became symbolic of the black-white racial struggle and were basically being used as surrogates for white people against black people. So a win for McCain against Obama would not have been seen just as a win over Obama, it would have been seen in their minds and represented to others as a win over black people in general, and keeping black people in their place. So even had Obama lost, we would not necessarily have avoided the racial backlash that has surfaced, as McCain's win may have emboldened them even more coming off a victory high.
Furthermore, we know the auto industry was on the verge of collapse at that time. The GOP wanted to make an example of unions and the management of those companies and were against the restructuring/bailout. We would have lost a manufacturing base which is one of the few that we have left. We also would have lost other related jobs:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6278396&page=1
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/how-many-jobs-depend-on-the-big-three/?_r=0
It's a known fact that black unemployment is always higher than the national average. Had we lost all those jobs, black people would have suffered the most, and would have, along with all the other brown people, been the ones being used to beat up on as whites expressed anger and saw us as taking their jobs. We also would have been the ones struggling more as this white nationalist streak ignited during the campaign took off.
That's just one example of how another candidate would have been worse for black people, had Obama not been elected.
Women would have been worse off also. Had the teaparty and the antiabortion, anti planned parenthood also played out the same way, the laws in Texas and other places would have most likely been upheld, because the brilliant appointees like Sotomayor would not have been on the supreme court to stop them. The court would have been much more conservative.
Obama has appointed more black federal judges than any President, ever. http://politic365.com/2014/01/24/18...d-higher-of-black-judges-than-any-president/# These are judges with lifetime appointments, who come from our communities and have real life experience to see black folks as people, and not just crime stats or stereotypes they draw from due to an absence of real world experience. We don't have to be "humanized" for them. Why do you think the GOP keeps blocking his appointments? There would have been many more if they were willing to do their job.
Y'all are asking Obama to do things specifically for black people when he can't get regular stuff done without passing an executive order. This is after dropping the ball and not showing up for midterm elections so that he could keep a democratic majority in congress to pass laws and actually get things done. (The idiots who want to see a Trump presidency in order to "wake people up" only need to look at congress to see what happened. People didn't wake up then, and the amount of destruction that has come to pass was not worth it, and it's mild compared to what I believe Trump would cause.) Police actions are governed by state and city officials, laws, and ordinances. Black folks don't need to be addressing Obama, they need to be out locally, and pressing the local candidates for change. In DC it's the congress who actually has to make laws and pass them to make it to Obama's desk for him to sign. Right now, RIGHT NOW, Flint Michigan is being denied funds to help with the lead in their water. The GOP insists everything must be paid for to make it into the budget. The dems cut other programs to get money for Flint and other places, but it's being held up even though Louisiana flood relief made it in and is not paid for. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...t-hostage-in-latest-government-shutdown-fight Yet you expect me to believe this things would be better under McCain? McCain who has endorsed Trump btw, another example of his poor judgement.
So, lets see what we do have. We have a black man who had been competent and in power for 8 years. I haven't agreed with or liked everything he has done, but he has been an example of excellence and black male leadership at home and abroad. Remember white supremacy isn't only here in the states. Kids leading up to the age of 18 probably don't ever remember another president.
We have a traditional BLACK family with mother and father intact, daughters not dressing up as whores, going on drunk binges (Bush's daughters) or having kids out of wedlock (Palin's daughter), as a model to strive for and achieve. Not a TV sitcom that isn't "real". A functional black family that shows a real life ideal, and goes against the stereotypes that are painted about black families. We have a black role model that is powerful and successful and not an athlete or a rapper. Those are intangibles that cannot be measured, and that symbolism alone is worth the return I got on my vote. Racists may hate him, and they may try to belittle him, but they know that Obama is smarter than all of the combined and they can't stand it.
He has given legitimacy to BLM by inviting them to the White House and having some prominent blacks who were protesters sit on panels of organizations.
He has pardoned non violent drug offenders and reduced the discrepancy between crack/cocaine in sentencing. And so much more.
Now on to your news source: Brietbart is a rag for racists and conspiracy theorists. Using them as a source of credible information on politics involving Obama is like using Stormfront as a credible source on the behavior and attributes of black people. No one other than Breitbart thinks crime is up. At least no one credible. Washington post did a write up on them:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ust-took-over-the-gop/?utm_term=.47c90b615bdb
See when we started all of this, I was under the impression that you were like many black and white Americans who had projected expectations upon Obama that he had never even hinted he would pursue or fulfill. A lot of people thought he was going to be the black Clark Kent: get elected, step into the phone booth (office) and burst out in a cape, caping for black folks. Many whites feared this, many blacks secretly hoped it was true. He can't really afford to do that as anything he says or does is used to promote white fear, and as I said, congress and locals are the ones who need to be lobbied, not the President.
I'm still hoping he goes full black after the election and pardons all the remaining black panther party leaders still in jail, and I will be disappointed if he doesn't, but that is my hope, not an expectation he has set. But this Breitbart piece you've posted, coupled with Donald Trump talking points that Obama hasn't done anything for black people that you've been sprouting, after the GOP has blocked anything he wanted to achieve for the past 8 years, changes things for me in dealing with you. Another mod has already pointed out all your posts originate from a United States IP address, but I didn't think you were faking being a black, er excuse me...mixed...dude, too. Chubby finger verification pic aside. Along with the fact that you are far too passionate over an election that doesn't involve your country, your post history with things you've said about Obama make you heavily suspect. You aren't just misguided, you are intentionally sowing right wing and alt right lies and attempting to get black folks to vote against their own interests. You have lost all credibility with me.
I'm not emotional and I don't have misplaced anything.
I'm simply following your logic which is strangely close to the logic white people had when race became an issue when racists came out the woodwork to attack Obama. They blamed him because race was a topic, but he didn't make it the topic, the hate that was directed toward him made it a topic.
Why do you think I think Hillary could have singlehandedly stopped anything? Do you not know the difference between having a government that elevates, supports and encourages white supremacists vs one that would have polices in place to help protect POC? How can you look at Jeff Sessions and not see a problem, one that was easily avoidable? Do you not realize how many federal judges the GOP did not confirm because they wanted to keep a status quo that was anti-black? Slots that Trump gets to fill with any racist he wants? Who sentence POC, and who decide cases that impact us?
I really don't understand why all this is so difficult to understand. This stuff may take decades to undo. If ever can be undone.
I don't really want to rehash this again. I've said the same thing I've said for the past four years. Vet the nominee, get their promises, commitments or whatever. Monitor for progress, keep the pressure on, and if they don't keep their commitments and show no evidence on trying to bring them to pass, then primary them and pull support. Set an example so the next candidate doesn't make the same mistake. We stop at the first step and then complain.
In the current political atmosphere, we don't have the luxury of sitting out like we did before. With the gutting of the voting rights act, when the GOP gets in power, they craft and execute ways to diminish our vote, gerrymander areas, and will pay no penalty for it. By the time people decide to get back in the game, then they have to have 3-4x the dem vote to equal the political power of 1x the GOP vote. GA had over 50,000 majority black registrations on hold. If your mom named you De'Shaun and someone entered it as De Shaun or DeShaun on some pubic record at some time, you were ass out, and the GOP SoS had carte blanche to do what he wanted. All the legal actions came too late. HOWEVER, had we voted dem and kept power in states instead of losing governorship's, then our vote wouldn't be diluted or suppressed. Medicaid would be expanded. We wouldn't have a lawsuit trying to end protections for preexisting conditions and the ACA. We wouldn't have the GOP doing like they did in Ohio exempting white areas from work requirements to get food stamps, while black area's even with higher unemployment rates, still had to be subject to them. Who is in power determines how much we get fucked over. If nothing else, letting them win is letting the racist rhetoric of Trump win and influence others when they see there are no consequences for it. Why do you want to help white supremacy spread? You think DeSantis is going to pull back on his racist rhetoric when it basically worked? Why shouldn't other white folks be emboldened to do exactly what he did?
Ok so a few questions: are we able to get reparations without legislation being passed? If so how?
If not, say ADOS sits out the election, votes GOP or whatever, dems lose and the GOP maintains power. BGOL ADOS have already said lobbying the GOP is out, so does the agenda sit idly by until enough dems get power again?
Before you answer let's see if we can agree on recent history so we can theorize how this plays out.
Obama got elected and had a slim majority for about 2 years. During this time he lost his shine. Dailykos was practically a hate site against him. White liberals, mad about him not moving fast enough on LGBT and not getting their wishlist with the ACA and other issues, decided to sit out to teach him a lesson. Black folks didn't come out as he wasn't on the ballot and white racists mad about a black man in the white house showed up and showed out en masse. We lost everything state level and in Congress.
Now the GOP doesn't just sit idly by when they get a bit of power. They wanted to make black turnout ineffective for all time. While we were out of power and the voting rights act was gutted by the scotus, GOP led areas suppressed and gerrymandered to their hearts content. Dems can win 90% of the vote, and only 10% of the seats. (That's an exaggeration but the point is our voting power was greatly diminished and we have to win by an overwhelming margin just to barely stay on the playing field.) Some maps got overturned but with the scotus ruling this will happen less and less. See this link also on ways they consolidate power: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/1862658
So 8 years later we are just now picking up seats at the state level and during all this time any and all progressive agendas have stalled. All those liberals who wanted to teach Obama a lesson have been fighting tooth and nail to hold on to what he got passed and thanks to the GOP sabotage, namely Marco Rubio screwing over risk corridors, health care plan cost doubled.
So, if we do this again, and dem power is reduced further, the cycle continues. In addition we now have a open white supremacist in the WH stirring the racial resentment pot, so we have no idea how the electorate is going to pan out.
So what is the plan, to get legislation passed, from a group that gets rewarded by their base for anti black rhetoric and and passing any law that hurts us and denying anything that helps us, even if it affects them the same or worse? What makes you think candidates seeking power won't also play to the white vote and refuse to consider or discuss reparations for fear of backlash or loss of votes?
How do you get someone to write legislation, introduce it, whip the votes, get it passed and get it signed with or without dems in power?
I'm looking for actionable plans, not a wishlist and a never ending stream of complaints. Is this something we are really working for, because if not, how is this something more than just creating resentment, causing division, stroking discontent and ceding power?
If this is something we want to see in our lifetimes, can we really afford to let another 10 years pass by while anyone inclined to give you what you want is kept powerless?
If asking how something gets done is a threat, then that means there is no plan. Why should I expend any social media or personal capital I have or donate or whatever?
If I came to you and said I am going to get us a billion dollars and I would like your participation or yout time or your money, wouldn't you want to know about the plan to evaluate it? If I said I'm going to go and tell people I want it, I'm owed it and I'm going to get it and the people I'm telling aren't even the ones who can give it to me, would you still join me? A goal without a plan is just wishful thinking.
I'll tell you now, health care and other issues take priority for me over reparations. If dems get power again, I want healthcare secure first.
I've been trying to be convinced that the idea of reparations and amplifying the message is something I should put time and energy into but the loudest mouthpieces are telling me I'm too stupid to understand and have failed repeatedly to present any concrete steps. I'm practical. If y'all pull this off, I get paid anyway. All I see is the stirring up of discontent with no outlet other than to lash out at others so there is no reason for me to join in and keep myself angry and worked up for no reason.
That is Trumps playbook with his white supporters. Make them feel superior but give them a target to go after for all their woes when they feel their lives aren't shit. British actors can't get reparations for you, attacking them is a distraction. Unless you are going after a director lobbying for a film on reparations, those targets are other distractions. Anything not lobbying the lawmakers or working toward getting the ones in power who will support this is a distraction. Eyes everywhere but on the ball. There are legit advocates for reparations out there, I'm just not convinced y'all are hooked up with them.
I know and understand the attitudes Africans and immigrants have toward us and vice versa. I also understand that it has been shaped by white supremacy. We have bought into the stereotypes and white propaganda about each other. The solution isn't more distance, it's coming together to learn about each other.
