Make a Contribution to Remove NSFW Ads

NBA Point Guard Mt. Rushmore?

Pick four-- NBA Point Guard Mt. Rushmore

  • Magic Johnson

  • Steph Curry

  • Oscar Robertson

  • Isiah Thomas

  • John Stockton

  • Chris Paul

  • Jason Kidd

  • Mark Jackson

  • Gary Payton

  • Bob Cousy

  • Walt Frazier

  • Tiny Archibald

  • Russell Westbrook

  • Steve Nash

  • Other (Please post)

Results are only viewable after voting.
Heist said:
He played in a hi-tempo offense. He was a high tempo player even before playing under D’antoni’s scheme.

But
Who
Was
Shutting
Nash
Down?


You’ve given me every reason for why he could become a 2x MVP, but who could stop him?
Click to expand...
Dude never average double assist in a season until he got to play with 3 dudes who were capable of putting up 20+ points at any given night...stoudamire and Marion were 20+ point scorers b4 Nash got there and Joe Johnson showed he was capable of putting up 20 points a night when he was not playing with nash... Nash benefited playing with them not the other way around... He didn't average double digit assist b4 them or smell a all star game starting position... Dude has 1 of the worst scoring average in a season for mvp where he average less than 16 points a game... He average 15 points 11 assist extra mediocre stat s for an mvp... John stockton had better seasons and never was looked as mvp for the league... Reason why I nicknamed Nash less than stockton... His mvp was a sham
 
tallblacknyc said:
actually he was.. I've routinely explained that his biggest flaw was playing in the same era as magic, zeke, and stockton... Magic won mvps , assist titles, mvp finals...zeke won assist title, finals mvp, Stockton won double digit amount of assist titles which means kj got overshadowed by 3 hall of famers... People always talk about top 3 p!ayers meanwhile everybody else get overshadowed... Juss think how many all star games are you gonna start when magic and stockton is in your same conference, how are you going to be nba first team when magic, zeke, and stockton are playing... I posted his first several yrs stat s that show his numbers were similar and even better than Chris Paul yet unfortunately in the 80 and 90 would be overlooked cause of 3 hall of fame point guards... Kj is 1 of the most underrated pg in the nba
Click to expand...
stockton would never have the assist record if Magic didn't retire early

:itsawrap:
 
tallblacknyc said:
Dude never average double assist in a season until he got to play with 3 dudes who were capable of putting up 20+ points at any given night...stoudamire and Marion were 20+ point scorers b4 Nash got there and Joe Johnson showed he was capable of putting up 20 points a night when he was not playing with nash... Nash benefited playing with them not the other way around... He didn't average double digit assist b4 them or smell a all star game starting position... Dude has 1 of the worst scoring average in a season for mvp where he average less than 16 points a game... He average 15 points 11 assist extra mediocre stat s for an mvp... John stockton had better seasons and never was looked as mvp for the league... Reason why I nicknamed Nash less than stockton... His mvp was a sham
Click to expand...
A PG’s primary role isn’t scoring - it’s not even their secondary role, so the lowest PPG for an MVP mention is pointless.

If you want to take the benefited from time and supporting talent angle, well, as you mentioned John Stockton, he benefited from a period in the league where zone defenses were illegal and had one of the most dominant power forwards to ever play the game in Karl Marlone.

The pick and roll, Stockton to Malone assist ratio was outrageous. In man-to-man, as soon as Karl rolled it was game over if his defender switched on the pick. No one was in zone to cover the basket and whoever was guarding John could never hope to body Karl.
 
tallblacknyc said:
actually he was.. I've routinely explained that his biggest flaw was playing in the same era as magic, zeke, and stockton... Magic won mvps , assist titles, mvp finals...zeke won assist title, finals mvp, Stockton won double digit amount of assist titles which means kj got overshadowed by 3 hall of famers... People always talk about top 3 p!ayers meanwhile everybody else get overshadowed... Juss think how many all star games are you gonna start when magic and stockton is in your same conference, how are you going to be nba first team when magic, zeke, and stockton are playing... I posted his first several yrs stat s that show his numbers were similar and even better than Chris Paul yet unfortunately in the 80 and 90 would be overlooked cause of 3 hall of fame point guards... Kj is 1 of the most underrated pg in the nba
Click to expand...

We are kind of going across eras here a bit, and I could see it if KJ was the 4th best PG from that group, but Gary Payton was the 4th best.

Greatness is relative to your era. If gotta name 4 guys at your own position in your own era before I name you...

For example, right now I dont think we are calling CJ McCollum a great player, despite his impact and numbers.
 
Heist said:
A PG’s primary role isn’t scoring - it’s not even their secondary role, so the lowest PPG for an MVP mention is pointless.

If you want to take the benefited from time and supporting talent angle, well, as you mentioned John Stockton, he benefited from a period in the league where zone defenses were illegal and had one of the most dominant power forwards to ever play the game in Karl Marlone.

The pick and roll, Stockton to Malone assist ratio was outrageous. In man-to-man, as soon as Karl rolled it was game over if his defender switched on the pick. No one was in zone to cover the basket and whoever was guarding John could never hope to body Karl.
Click to expand...
actually averaging 15 points a game and winning an mvp is laughable...how are you consider the best player in the league with 15 points? They literally tried to change the perception of what mvp meant when they gave Nash the mvp cause they know it was no way they could explain why that undeserving cac got it... Mvp was always about dominance it's why people like wilt, reem, mj got them, ..nash dominated nothing... It's why they pushed the biggest horseshit logic ever "he makes his teammates better" a bullshit term people use to this day...why I dissect the fuck out that term... How was two men who were already dropping 20+ b4 he got there improved cause of him? Joe Johnson proved also be don't need Nash to get buckets... The sun's had a lot of injuries the prior season that s why they missed the playoffs..the yr b4 that they were in it...so the sun's didn't improve cause Nash made his team better they did good cause they were healthy...Nash stats improve cause he joined them not the other way around... If your job is to pass the ball to 3 guys that have the ability to drop 20+ points any given night id expect you to have double digit assist... Nash most overrated mvp ever
 
tallblacknyc said:
actually averaging 15 points a game and winning an mvp is laughable...how are you consider the best player in the league with 15 points? They literally tried to change the perception of what mvp meant when they gave Nash the mvp cause they know it was no way they could explain why that undeserving cac got it... Mvp was always about dominance it's why people like wilt, reem, mj got them, ..nash dominated nothing... It's why they pushed the biggest horseshit logic ever "he makes his teammates better" a bullshit term people use to this day...why I dissect the fuck out that term... How was two men who were already dropping 20+ b4 he got there improved cause of him? Joe Johnson proved also be don't need Nash to get buckets... The sun's had a lot of injuries the prior season that s why they missed the playoffs..the yr b4 that they were in it...so the sun's didn't improve cause Nash made his team better they did good cause they were healthy...Nash stats improve cause he joined them not the other way around... If your job is to pass the ball to 3 guys that have the ability to drop 20+ points any given night id expect you to have double digit assist... Nash most overrated mvp ever
Click to expand...

If the MVP award were given weighted based on point scoring ability, then the league scoring champion each season would be the MVP.

Simple right?

And yet, sometimes that’s true but many times that’s not.

As I wrote in my previous reply, a point guard’s role is not the primary scorer. It is not their primary function nor their secondary function.

However, occasionally there will be anomalies where the coach gives them the greenlight to be the primary scorer, i.e. Earl the Pearl Monroe, Allen Iverson, Westbrook, Curry ...
 
Heist said:
If the MVP award were given weighted based on point scoring ability, then the league scoring champion each season would be the MVP.

Simple right?

And yet, sometimes that’s true but many times that’s not.

As I wrote in my previous reply, a point guard’s role is not the primary scorer. It is not their primary function nor their secondary function.

However, occasionally there will be anomalies where the coach gives them the greenlight to be the primary scorer, i.e. Earl the Pearl Monroe, Allen Iverson, Westbrook, Curry ...
Click to expand...
Steve Nash was the first person to be awarded an mvp that scored under 20 points in several decades...first person to be not top 10 in scoring in decades...his mvp literally shows so many flaws... It will literally ask why did he receive one... He lead the league in assist that is it... How many assist leaders won mvps? There is literally nothing else you can say on why he deserve his mvp... Hence the bullshit term "he makes his teammates better"... You never heard that term b4 on reasoning on why all mvps won it... When Karl malone got it you didn't hear he makes his teammates better, when Charles Barkley won you never heard he makes his teammates better...they literally created that horseshit term for Steve nash... He had a lot of assist great that dosent mean he should get the mvp...if Steve Nash never got them bs mvp nobody would even mention his name in top pg period... Them bs mvps is why his name is even mention in this thread
 
tumblr_oqmsgvQdzC1sdydefo1_400.gif
 
tallblacknyc said:
every short dude in the hood with ups, dribble, and a jumpshot loved that dude... You heard mad dudes cross a nig up than pull up for a j scream "kj" if they hit it... The fact most nigs forgot how nice he was is crazy
Click to expand...

Him & Tim Hardaway revolutionized the position with their handles & ability to score of cats after crossing them up
 
KingTaharqa said:
Earvin "Magic" Johnson-5x NBA champ, NCAA champ, 3x MVP, 3x Finals MVP, 3rd all time in in assists, 3rd all time in triple doubles
Oscar Robertson-first player to ever average a triple double for a season and 1st all time, led the league in assists 7 times, won a chip in Milwaukee, 11x all star, 1x MVP, 3 ASG MVPs, responsible for NBA free agency, 25.7 PPG, 9.5 APG, 7.5 RPG for his career.
Jason Kidd-10x all star, 5x all NBA, 9x all defense, 1 chip, 2 gold medals, probably the greatest defensive PG ever and one of the toughest. 2nd all time in assists and steals.
Isiah Thomas-2x NBA champ, NCAA champ, 1x Finals MVP, 12x all star, 5x all NBA. Top 10 in assists, while also being a 20 PPG scorer. He has 4 20 & 10 seasons.
Click to expand...

Also, all four have championship on their resumes!!!!
 
woodchuck said:
Nah, bruh. You have to factor in technology, medical breakthroughs and other things. If I had to chose between White Chocolate and Cousy, I'd pick the latter, because he was more athletic, BUT he wouldn't be doing the shit he did if Cous wasn't doing it first, AND on top of that, Cous played better D. There are players that can transcend eras, but there are modern players that I'd take over some HOFers from past eras. Not every great player can transcend to different eras. Could MJ, Shaq, Penny, Wilt, CB, & Dream work today? Yeah. But there are other all-time greats from past eras that wouldn't be as dominate as they were in their day. Who would you take today, Bill Russell or Shaq? Russell is an all-time great from a by gone era, but ain't nobody taking him over Shaq.
Click to expand...

Every day and twice on Sunday, I would take Russell over Shaq. You do remember Russell play against a Shaq in the name of Wilt Chamberlain who was just as strong as Shaq and way more athletic! What a lot of people don't know about Wilt is that he was also outstanding in Track and Field running 49 seconds in the 440 yard race and under two minutes in the 880 yard distance. Chamberlain excelled at every aspect of track and field including running, jumping, and throwing. He is reported to have tossed a shot put over 53 feet in his youth. I like Shaq, however, he never truly developed any offensive skills other than back you down with power. I would rank him 5th (at best) on the all time great centers behind Kareem, Russell, Wilt and Olajuwon.
 
2019 Results:
  1. Magic Johnson
    124 vote(s)
    99.2%
  2. Isiah Thomas
    98 vote(s)
    78.4%
  3. Oscar Robertson
    69 vote(s)
    55.2%
  4. John Stockton
    49 vote(s)
    39.2%

And just outside:

2014 results for five year context:
  1. Magic Johnson
    108 vote(s)
    96.4%
  2. Isiah Thomas
    84 vote(s)
    75.0%
  3. Oscar Robertson
    81 vote(s)
    72.3%
  4. John Stockton
    72 vote(s)
    64.3%
And a distant fifth:
  1. Jason Kidd
    35 vote(s)
    31.3%

Johnson, Thomas, Robertson, Stockton. BGOL's 2014 and 2019 Mount Rushmore's are the same, but Steph Curry was not even thought of as an option five years ago (with no complaints) and was just barely edged out by Stockton with just over two percent difference.

I think if this poll is done again in five years, Curry is knocking Stockton off of the mountain easily.
 
Stockton. :hmm:

We have a lot of white voters

Didn't vote for any of them, but how did Kidd have so many votes over CP3 and Glove? The worst shooter out of all of them. And CP3 and Glove were just as good if not better defensive players.
 
Complex said:
Stockton. :hmm:

We have a lot of white voters

Didn't vote for any of them, but how did Kidd have so many votes over CP3 and Glove? The worst shooter out of all of them. And CP3 and Glove were just as good if not better defensive players.
Click to expand...

He's the best passer of the 3.

Kidd was just a better player and impacted the game more then they could.
 
AllUniverse17 said:
He's the best passer of the 3.

Kidd was just a better player and impacted the game more then they could.
Click to expand...

Best passer?

Misnomer. Kidd doesn't have exceptional assist stats. CP3 has a higher career average.

I'd say CP3 is better

and they both can score and shoot better

and CP3 made as many first/second team all defensive teams
Glove is clearly the better defensive player

Ason was a liability on offense, and only had a set shot...CP3 and Glove weren't a liability in any area.
 
Complex said:
Best passer?

Misnomer. Kidd doesn't have exceptional assist stats. CP3 has a higher career average.

I'd say CP3 is better

and they both can score and shoot better

and CP3 made as many first/second team all defensive teams
Glove is clearly the better defensive player

Ason was a liability on offense, and only had a set shot...CP3 and Glove weren't a liability in any area.
Click to expand...

Ill make it simple.

Kidd was the entire engine that made the Nets reach 2 straight finals...

CP3 and Payton never played at the level he was at during those years.
 
AllUniverse17 said:
Ill make it simple.

Kidd was the entire engine that made the Nets reach 2 straight finals...

CP3 and Payton never played at the level he was at during those years.
Click to expand...

because Kidd played in the east....look at the roster of those teams he beat.

Cp3 and GP have played at that level
 

Make a Contribution to Remove NSFW Ads
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top