Social Media Debate: When experts have to interact with the public who THINKS it knows better (is society getting dumber?)

[playahaitian]

All that is the consequence to being a free thinking society. In physics we have Newton’s 3rd Law that states: “For every action force, there exists a reaction force, equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. The action and reaction force always act on different objects.”

Free thinking is great, but humans freely thinking can create more personal truths. Which will cause more confusion.

I disagree
Personal truth can't exist in any forum where free thought is practiced

this is the exact opposite of a free thinking society
Free thinking = competing ideas / philosophies

This personal truth bullshit came out of colleges coddling their students instead of challenging them.
Disagreement or opposition to liberal beliefs are shunned as insensitive
Arguments in favor of other philosophies or view points are suppressed with complaints from opponents of being triggered
In lecture thought experiments exploring complexity in sex race religion in some cases even economics are shut down for being non PC / sexist using tags like patriarchy, misogyny, trans homophobic -
Calling out / shouting down of those espousing "offensive thoughts" are celebrated


This is the breeding ground that birthed acceptance of "personal truth"
With almost everyone resisting challenges to the ideology or world view of their "tribe" by retreating to personal truth

That is ANOTHER thing..

people using terms they do NOT fully comprehend...

like

FREE THINKER.

And frustrating cause they could EASILY google that.

But then that opens ANOTHER issue

I don't think we should take the first page of a google search as gospel.

 

[THE DRIZZY]

Uh Oh the champ is here....

so wait...

you saying at times you DOWN PLAY your own intelligence?

As tough as it is sometimes you have to depending on your surroundings. Remember the saying "never cast pearls before swine". It does not mean to participate in other's nonsense and insecurities. It is about peace of mind and that is just as valuable in many cases as trying to prove facts to people who lack the mental agility to objectively process things. I remember someone posted a quote in another thread and it went something like "never argue with fools, they will pull you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

[ViCiouS]

As tough as it is sometimes you have to depending on your surroundings. Remember the saying "never cast pearls before swine". It does not mean to participate in other's nonsense and insecurities. It is about peace of mind and that is just as valuable in many cases as trying to prove facts to people who lack the mental agility to objectively process things. I remember someone posted a quote in another thread and it went something like "never argue with fools, they will pull you down to their level and beat you with experience."

But then that opens ANOTHER issue

I don't think we should take the first page of a google search as gospel.

critical thinking is useful - but an education is essential
without a solid foundation you are forced to rely on mentors

You can't google - if you don't know what to ask
without prior exposure / experience / guidance in xyz - you can't truly find or learn anything substantial only the superficial

Weakest part of the internet is the end user - if you don't even know something exists - you will not search for it

 

[playahaitian]

critical thinking is useful - but an education is essential

You can't google - if you don't know what to ask
without prior exposure / experience / guidance in xyz - you can't truly find or learn anything substantial only the superficial

Weakest part of the internet is the end user - if you don't even know something exists - you will not search for it

and just accept the FIRST response that mirrors your own

 

[ViCiouS]

and just accept the FIRST response that mirrors your own

its data - so more important than the response it is about asking the right question

its no different than querying a database, the more specific the query = increasingly accurate results

but yes most will not look deeper if something confirms their pov

for many things its better to seek out a message board catering to what ever you seeking

 

[4 Dimensional]

I disagree
Personal truth can't exist in any forum where free thought is practiced

this is the exact opposite of a free thinking society
Free thinking = competing ideas / philosophies

This personal truth bullshit came out of colleges coddling their students instead of challenging them.
Disagreement or opposition to liberal beliefs are shunned as insensitive
Arguments in favor of other philosophies or view points are suppressed with complaints from opponents of being triggered
In lecture thought experiments exploring complexity in sex race religion in some cases even economics are shut down for being non PC / sexist using tags like patriarchy, misogyny, trans homophobic -
Calling out / shouting down of those espousing "offensive thoughts" are celebrated


This is the breeding ground that birthed acceptance of "personal truth"
With almost everyone resisting challenges to the ideology or world view of their "tribe" by retreating to personal truth

I connected personal truth to free thinking because our society allows this to exist.

The way I was defining it was the ability to think what you want, however you want based on your experience without consequence.

I’m not sure where personal truth came from, maybe you have a point about the colleges, but I do believe it’s also people wanting to just be different as well. Personal truth to me is based solely on personal experience. The problem comes when people uses that experience as the absolute. So their thinking is based around that and they are blind to everything else that may contribute to their truth.

 

[4 Dimensional]

That is ANOTHER thing..

people using terms they do NOT fully comprehend...

like

FREE THINKER.

And frustrating cause they could EASILY google that.

But then that opens ANOTHER issue

I don't think we should take the first page of a google search as gospel.

Well here is the problem with defining something.

Most discussions are centered around semantics in the first place. That’s why it’s important to me to make sure we both have the same definition or understanding on what something is.

For example, love. There is the Websters’ definition and then there is the personal definition. If I ask 10 million people what love is, I’ll get 10 million different answers. So then what would be the true definition of love. Another example, racism. I defined racism based on my experience as a black man and my research of this country. But then there is Webster’s version which I don’t totally agree with.

I can google any word, but how it’s used can be subjective. Like “Free thinking.” I’ll get something from google, but in my mind I take “free thinking” very literal. The ability to think freely. And that is what I was pointing out to @ViCiouS in my previous post. I just believe how we see it is different, but our understanding is similar.

 

[playahaitian]

its data - so more important than the response it is about asking the right question

its no different than querying a database, the more specific the query = increasingly accurate results

but yes most will not look deeper if something confirms their pov

for many things its better to seek out a message board catering to what ever you seeking

I think we will look back historically

and message boards

media feeds

targeted ads on Facebook and Twitter?

Will completely MENTALLY segregate this population to point of damn near extinction

 

[playahaitian]

another thing we have to deal with...

kinda of spin off

the TRUTH and the PERCEPTION of TRUTH...

example...

Well YEAH R. Kelly is the devil but WHY you don;t go after white guys like that?

Matt Lauer, Chris Hadrwick Led Mo0nves and Winstein (so far) would disagree...

but there IS truth to that statement.

But its PERCEPTION too.

 

[darth frosty]

but I think there is a DIFFERENCE between arguments, discourse and debate.

There are more tied in to this but I would end up quoting this entire page.

The problem is arguments, discourse and debate in our present social times, have degraded to negative connotations.

They have been reduced to their base binary meanings: yes no, on off, right wrong.

Nuance, subtleties and personal interpretation are gone.

The quote above is a 2 fucking edged sword!!!

I like to think many of us on the board come to engage in discussions about shared interest.

But the other edge of sword is idiots and troll fucktards who have the same longing.

Attention whoring may be a better description of of their debate skills, but they too seek out others with a larger but shared vision.

This is why Trump is so successful!

A lot of discussion, topics and grand ideas and themes have already been presented here, each damn near deserving of its own thread.

Simpleton troll folk like trumps base, instead of seeing and appreciating the subtle and varied topics brought up, reduce the discussion to its least common denominator.

As tough as it is sometimes you have to depending on your surroundings. Remember the saying "never cast pearls before swine". It does not mean to participate in other's nonsense and insecurities. It is about peace of mind and that is just as valuable in many cases as trying to prove facts to people who lack the mental agility to objectively process things. I remember someone posted a quote in another thread and it went something like "never argue with fools, they will pull you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

[playahaitian]

@4 Dimensional

@ViCiouS



3...2...1....

GO!!!!!

 

[ViCiouS]

@4 Dimensional

@ViCiouS



3...2...1....

GO!!!!!

I never watch Vlad videos...

 

[playahaitian]

I never watch Vlad videos...

I understand.

If is frustrating as HELL that this guy continues to get people I ACTUALLY want to hear talk...

and in a forum where for some reason NO ELSE seems to offer.

but his off the wall defense of flat earth was so damn ...

anyway it was yet ANOTHER person trying HARD (BADLY) to defend the flat earth theory and fake moon landing.

 

[playahaitian]

emotion OVER reason...

just gonna leave this RIGHT here

@ViCiouS @largebillsonlyplease @4 Dimensional



https://www.bgol.us/forum/threads/k...-club-great-discussion.1037245/#post-19706037

 

[playahaitian]

I never watch Vlad videos...

@16:30

well damn Vlad Stocks is actually accurate?

 

[ViCiouS]

@16:30

well damn Vlad Stocks is actually accurate?

 

[4 Dimensional]

emotion OVER reason...

just gonna leave this RIGHT here

@ViCiouS @largebillsonlyplease @4 Dimensional



https://www.bgol.us/forum/threads/k...-club-great-discussion.1037245/#post-19706037

Killer Mike come from a VERY black background and ENVIRONMENT. Atlanta is one of the blackest cities in the country. I think both him and Envy are stuck in their personal truths and it’s hard for them to see outside of that.

Where I am from, I didn’t have a choice to attend a majority Black school. We didn’t have charter schools. My entire county was majority white and blacks were always the minority at every elementary, middle, and high school.

I agreed with a lot of things he said in the interview, but Atlanta is just not even comparable to most of the nation. Not even close. And the more I think about it, Envy and Mike were debating two different things.

 

[playahaitian]

Killer Mike come from a VERY black background and ENVIRONMENT. Atlanta is one of the blackest cities in the country. I think both him and Envy are stuck in their personal truths and it’s hard for them to see outside of that.

Where I am from, I didn’t have a choice to attend a majority Black school. We didn’t have charter schools. My entire county was majority white and blacks were always the minority at every elementary, middle, and high school.

I agreed with a lot of things he said in the interview, but Atlanta is just not even comparable to most of the nation. Not even close. And the more I think about it, Envy and Mike were debating two different things.

BOOM

 

[ViCiouS]

Killer Mike come from a VERY black background and ENVIRONMENT. Atlanta is one of the blackest cities in the country. I think both him and Envy are stuck in their personal truths and it’s hard for them to see outside of that.

Where I am from, I didn’t have a choice to attend a majority Black school. We didn’t have charter schools. My entire county was majority white and blacks were always the minority at every elementary, middle, and high school.

I agreed with a lot of things he said in the interview, but Atlanta is just not even comparable to most of the nation. Not even close. And the more I think about it, Envy and Mike were debating two different things.

Envy and Mike grew up in VERY different cultures

I grew up on the same block as Envy - I'm maybe 3 or 4 years older
Envy grew up on a beautiful tree lined street - solid middle class hood with pockets of "hood" areas
Some of his childhood friends are solid citizens and business owners - some others grew up to be killers - his best friend was the first person I ever saw get a neck tatt -(funny thing - with in a year of getting the tat boy got locked up and sent upstate)

IMO much of Envy's insecurity is because of his pops - a cop - and a strong believer in image politics, most parents that were about anything around here was on the same page.

Anyway back then charter schools weren't an option and NYC public ed sucked- unless you got into one of the elite schools. Most teachers were overwhelmed but the faculty was diverse but students in our district was +90% black

We are NYers and definitely grew up deeply immersed in hip hop culture, 80's kids in our hood were living hip hop history every year. But IMO Envy's first real immersion in unapologetic blackness was when he went to Hampton U

 

[4 Dimensional]

Envy and Mike grew up in VERY different cultures

I grew up on the same block as Envy - I'm maybe 3 or 4 years older
Envy grew up on a beautiful tree lined street - solid middle class hood with pockets of "hood" areas
Some of his childhood friends are solid citizens and business owners - some others grew up to be killers - his best friend was the first person I ever saw get a neck tatt -(funny thing - with in a year of getting the tat boy got locked up and sent upstate)

IMO much of Envy's insecurity is because of his pops - a cop - and a strong believer in image politics, most parents that were about anything around here was on the same page.

Anyway back then charter schools weren't an option and NYC public ed sucked- unless you got into one of the elite schools. Most teachers were overwhelmed but the faculty was diverse but students in our district was +90% black

We are NYers and definitely grew up deeply immersed in hip hop culture, 80's kids in our hood were living hip hop history every year. But IMO Envy's first real immersion in unapologetic blackness was when he went to Hampton U

And you can tell by how Mike and Envy was discussing at how different they are.

That where I think Envy was failing to see where Mike was coming from. However, Mike was failing to see that his upbringing was very black and Afro centric, so his perspective couldn’t be applied to me.

Similar to Envy, I didn’t get my unapologetic blackness until I went to an HBCU. And that was a huge culture shock.

The issues you and many other had to deal with in public NYC schools is nothing I had to deal with. So I see where Envy was coming from when trying to explain to mike the benefit of private schools versus public.

 

[Naha-Nago]

There are more tied in to this but I would end up quoting this entire page.

The problem is arguments, discourse and debate in our present social times, have degraded to negative connotations.

They have been reduced to their base binary meanings: yes no, on off, right wrong.

Nuance, subtleties and personal interpretation are gone.

The quote above is a 2 fucking edged sword!!!

I like to think many of us on the board come to engage in discussions about shared interest.

But the other edge of sword is idiots and troll fucktards who have the same longing.

Attention whoring may be a better description of of their debate skills, but they too seek out others with a larger but shared vision.

This is why Trump is so successful!

A lot of discussion, topics and grand ideas and themes have already been presented here, each damn near deserving of its own thread.

Simpleton troll folk like trumps base, instead of seeing and appreciating the subtle and varied topics brought up, reduce the discussion to its least common denominator.

Yep.

*two cents*

 

[playahaitian]

Envy and Mike grew up in VERY different cultures

I grew up on the same block as Envy - I'm maybe 3 or 4 years older
Envy grew up on a beautiful tree lined street - solid middle class hood with pockets of "hood" areas
Some of his childhood friends are solid citizens and business owners - some others grew up to be killers - his best friend was the first person I ever saw get a neck tatt -(funny thing - with in a year of getting the tat boy got locked up and sent upstate)

IMO much of Envy's insecurity is because of his pops - a cop - and a strong believer in image politics, most parents that were about anything around here was on the same page.

Anyway back then charter schools weren't an option and NYC public ed sucked- unless you got into one of the elite schools. Most teachers were overwhelmed but the faculty was diverse but students in our district was +90% black

We are NYers and definitely grew up deeply immersed in hip hop culture, 80's kids in our hood were living hip hop history every year. But IMO Envy's first real immersion in unapologetic blackness was when he went to Hampton U

And you can tell by how Mike and Envy was discussing at how different they are.

That where I think Envy was failing to see where Mike was coming from. However, Mike was failing to see that his upbringing was very black and Afro centric, so his perspective couldn’t be applied to me.

Similar to Envy, I didn’t get my unapologetic blackness until I went to an HBCU. And that was a huge culture shock.

The issues you and many other had to deal with in public NYC schools is nothing I had to deal with. So I see where Envy was coming from when trying to explain to mike the benefit of private schools versus public.

One of the best things I ever did was start this thread

you 2 gentlemen (and many other contributors here) have been a wealth of knowledge

and have helped me think and grew and be a better individual father husband and citizen of the world.

My world view is deeper and more detailed and I have been encouraged to share it.

appreciate ya'll.

I'm gonna go update some threads about women with extremely large posteriors sitting suggestively on various forms of furniture now.

 

[Naha-Nago]

Oh this shit happens all the time. Some of y'all know I work in advertising....I can't tell you how many times I've had people at Super bowl parties question me on shit. I've had dudes tell me to my face how one product really didn't want to be in the superbowl but had to be from public pressure not realizing I FUCKING NEGOTIATED THE DEAL!

Yeah everyone wants to be an expert.

I ALWAYS correct them. I have a very hard time letting stupid slide.

It happens at least once every other year cause during Superbowl someone always brings up the commercials.

The best was when I was at a Superbowl party with work friends and we all started talking about which clients we hated the most. That shit was hilarious.

Lol.

I sometimes find myself observing how much further will they carry their stupid. It be endless too

Tell me about it. I work in the construction industry. People TRY to tell me how to do my job every other day.

One day a client got me in an 'off' moment and I got trill with his ass. That 85% of the business that grudgingly toll out to us 'greedy contractors' is just pure negligence and he wouldn't feel the need to explain our ridiculous fees to us if he was just competent.

"You know how much that new Air Handler Unit REALLY COSTED YOU? You NOT changing out the filters once every 3 months like the owner manuals says. Guess you're to smart for the obvious. 85% of my job is based off you not doing yours."

Last time we ever had a conversation on how much he knew and I didn't.

*two cents*

 

[playahaitian]

exhibit A...

see this white man's word salad I feel wouldn't even be UNDERSTOOD by his REAL target audience (POOR WHITE FOLK)

But his APPEARANCE and DELIVERY would fool many of "good" white folk

 

[phanatic]

That is ANOTHER thing..

people using terms they do NOT fully comprehend...

like

FREE THINKER.

And frustrating cause they could EASILY google that.

But then that opens ANOTHER issue

I don't think we should take the first page of a google search as gospel.

The dumb people are labeling new rhetoric repeaters as free thinkers. Free thinkers offer something fresh and new, and are often shunned by agenda driven outlets because they are going against the status quo.

 

[playahaitian]

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[playahaitian]

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[playahaitian]

​

 

[playahaitian]

I think we can place the James Holzhauer Jeopardy discussion in here...

@ViCiouS @4 Dimensional @largebillsonlyplease @fonzerrillii @woodchuck

So is this man a "genius" because he is destroying Jeopardy systematically?

What he is doing to that game is ridiculous

I actually spoke to a doctor, teachers a programmer and a financial analyst at my daughter school the other day

And got into a huge discussion on this.

Is he "smart"?

How do you define smart?

How many hours of pure STUDY would it take to come up with that strategy.

Why does even the most avid fan not understand how the buzzer actually works?

Notice he doesn't wait for Alex to finish reading?

Does memorization equate to intelligence?

Isn't memorization critical in education?

How can educators use this as a tool for students?

Again he aint a genius...

(even though i think at some point we can have a serious debate on that)

but what he has been able to do when he focused his brain power on this specific thing is amazing.

 

[playahaitian]

some on board asked that he should TELL US how he does it...

If i was him?

I aint telling.

Jennings hasn't ever revealed his secret.

And i think all of us have had an episode of Jeopardy where we happened to just dominate.

I think MOST knowledgeable people ?

Especially the curious, the good students, the big readers, travelers, listeners, etc...

We have most of this trivia in our minds somewhere

Its the ability to create that mind palace and ACCESS that info immediately that is the key.

I've known baseball heads who remember every batting average

Pro Football players who can remember EVERY offensive play from a college game

What makes this dude particularly insane is the variety of info and speed he has to access it.

Also remember the questions do "repeat" in a way.

Not specifically but the wording and structure.

But his OBVIOUS work ethic may be the real key.

To have the focus and discipline FIRST

cause its not just knowing the "trick"

But actually being able to implement it

Consistently

 

[darth frosty]

I think we can place the James Holzhauer Jeopardy discussion in here...

Is he "smart"?

How do you define smart?

How many hours of pure STUDY would it take to come up with that strategy.

Why does even the most avid fan not understand how the buzzer actually works?

Notice he doesn't wait for Alex to finish reading?

Does memorization equate to intelligence?

Isn't memorization critical in education?

How can educators use this as a tool for students?

Again he aint a genius...

(even though i think at some point we can have a serious debate on that)

but what he has been able to do when he focused his brain power on this specific thing is amazing.

I think he is a genius just different type not idiot savant type but non-sequitur


Check out his Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Holzhauer

As a child, he was known as Jamie. In 1989, when he was 4, his teacher was astounded by his arithmetic abilities and developed advanced classwork just for him. At age 7, he was moved up to a fifth-grade math class, and at his mother’s urging he skipped second grade. He consistently got A’s on math tests and competed on the Naperville North High School math team. Despite high marks on individual tests, he was a C student overall, as he often skipped class and homework on the grounds that he could use the time more productively, such as playing online poker.

I propose he benefit from 2 major life development/education events.

1st a teacher who recognized early on his talent in mathematics and who nurtured and strengthen said talent.

2nd he willfully decided his own path.

Most are forced to balance out schooling even though your true talent (and perhaps life path) has already manifested.

 

[playahaitian]

I think he is a genius just different type not idiot savant type but non-sequitur


Check out his Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Holzhauer



I propose he benefit from 2 major life development/education events.

1st a teacher who recognized early on his talent in mathematics and who nurtured and strengthen said talent.

2nd he willfully decided his own path.

Most are forced to balance out schooling even though your true talent (and perhaps life path) has already manifested.

Good post.

Wow a C student.

I wonder what SHOULD have been done for him academically?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I think we can place the James Holzhauer Jeopardy discussion in here...

@ViCiouS @4 Dimensional @largebillsonlyplease @fonzerrillii @woodchuck

So is this man a "genius" because he is destroying Jeopardy systematically?

What he is doing to that game is ridiculous

I actually spoke to a doctor, teachers a programmer and a financial analyst at my daughter school the other day

And got into a huge discussion on this.

Is he "smart"?

How do you define smart?

How many hours of pure STUDY would it take to come up with that strategy.

Why does even the most avid fan not understand how the buzzer actually works?

Notice he doesn't wait for Alex to finish reading?

Does memorization equate to intelligence?

Isn't memorization critical in education?

How can educators use this as a tool for students?

Again he aint a genius...

(even though i think at some point we can have a serious debate on that)

but what he has been able to do when he focused his brain power on this specific thing is amazing.

Smarts just a word
Applied to overall when it should be to more specific thing

No matter how he does it when it comes to jeopardy he's a genius

 

[playahaitian]

Smarts just a word
Applied to overall when it should be to more specific thing

No matter how he does it when it comes to jeopardy he's a genius

Are surprised that many are trying dismiss his jeopardy "genius"?

And do you think what he is doing to the game can be applied and used in academics?

My oldest loves to watch hom play but unfortunately he answers so damn fast?

She finds it difficult to keep up. I gotta find a website with all the questions and answers we can play at home.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Are surprised that many are trying dismiss his jeopardy "genius"?

And do you think what he is doing to the game can be applied and used in academics?

My oldest loves to watch hom play but unfortunately he answers so damn fast?

She finds it difficult to keep up. I gotta find a website with all the questions and answers we can play at home.

Applied in academics? Sure if you know all those answers then you can apply them anywhere lol


Also ppl try to downplay it but they can't even answer the questions lol

That's what it comes down to

Do you know the answer
Can you answer it quicker than other ppl?


That kind of information on a wide range of topics on tap?