The Music Industry Generated $43 Billion in Sales Last Year. Artists Only Received 12% of That.

ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
labels lose bags of money each year giving stupid advances that don't recoup.

their job is to exploit the artists music and likeness by all means necessary, in order to turn a profit,

and then think about paying anyone else, ....maybe......birdman.
a label still makes money even on a failed artist.... They sign some artists knowing from the jump they just plan to put them on the shelf or an exec plans to steal the budget to use on another project or for a new Benz for xmas.

They give xyz a very small advance, inflate budgets- the label bills the artist for all employee time used on xyz project at a rate upto 10x actual employee salary, pad the budget on everything from catering to transport even temp housing.... write offs to reduce their profits on paper = millions saved on taxes
 

TEN

Tensei - Admin
Staff member
If a person walks away or they can’t recoupe the money the label will do what they can and sue the artist. Why do you think so many artist file bankruptcy to try to get away from the label? Labels don’t just chalk it up as a loss without trying to get some of that money back.
I see.

Anyway heres some Info for the fam, here's wikipedia's explanation of recoupment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoupment
Suppose that a music label gives a band a $250,000 advance to record an album. The label agrees to do so in return for 90% of the sales. In addition, the label will specify certain standards for production of the album, for example, which studios the band will engage. The label may even hold the advance and make all disbursements on the band's behalf, ensuring the funds are used exactly as agreed. In other words, the $250,000 advance is not simply pocketed by the band -- it is to be spent on album production and the band's reasonable expenses during production. The album is recorded, and sells 200,000* copies at $10 each, yielding $2m. The record company takes 90% of this as agreed, leaving the band with $200,000 of their own. This is the situation without recoupment.

With recoupment, the label advances the band $250,000 as before. As before, the band (or the label, on the band's behalf) spends substantially all of the advance to produce an album meeting the label's specifications. The album again sells 200,000 copies at $10 each, yielding $2m. The record company takes 100% of the first $250,000 in sales (recouping the $250,000 advance to the band), and 90% of all further sales, as agreed. The band's net is effectively reduced to 0% of the first $250,000 in sales and 10% of the further $1.75m, leaving them with a total of $175,000.

*Recoupment deals primarily involve new artists, or those without a proven sales history, so selling 200,000 copies would be fairly unusual. More typically, 10,000 or fewer copies are sold by a new artist. In this more typical case, the label recoups only $100,000 of the $250,000 advance, along with other non-recoupable expenses incurred in getting the album out into the world.
 

ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
Lol thAt term famous is very subjective ... Thanks to social media fame is easily more attainable... Also certain popular outlets like the breakfast club and other stations will invite certain indie acts due to their popularity or possible ability to even get bigger..also certain venues like governors ball will invite certain indie acts due to their cult followings.. It's all about promotion, product, consumer base as far as money generated and popularity
indys own the festival circuit and some are millionaires now because of events like the governors ball
its a bunch of indy millionaires with strong fan bases and lucrative tours that you haven't heard of.

A real indy gets on the Breakfast Club via relationships -1 in a 100 got there only by going viral
-most of the indy you've seen on club got there after a label or entertainment company is courting the artist or signed on a project with them.

By fame I'm talking people that never heard your music still heard of you.
Fame opens the door to A-list sponsors and endorsement deals, placement in arena and maybe stadium tours, access to the grammy awards, nominations even, your red carpet pics at the oscars or Met Gala, etc being seen across media ,
hosting SNL - guest roles and cameos in hollywood studio movies, access to party with politicians and billionaire CEOs

Without a label or other entertainment company backing - those doors don't open
 

tallblacknyc

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
indys own the festival circuit and some are millionaires now because of events like the governors ball
its a bunch of indy millionaires with strong fan bases and lucrative tours that you haven't heard of.

A real indy gets on the Breakfast Club via relationships -1 in a 100 got there only by going viral
-most of the indy you've seen on club got there after a label or entertainment company is courting the artist or signed on a project with them.

By fame I'm talking people that never heard your music still heard of you.
Fame opens the door to A-list sponsors and endorsement deals, placement in arena and maybe stadium tours, access to the grammy awards, nominations even, your red carpet pics at the oscars or Met Gala, etc being seen across media ,
hosting SNL - guest roles and cameos in hollywood studio movies, access to party with politicians and billionaire CEOs

Without a label or other entertainment company backing - those doors don't open
I guess

In the end you can be successful without them or you can deal with them......gift and curse with either choice
 

exiledking

Rising Star
OG Investor
when that song was written it was after the 1st album dropped - they made no money off it outside of merch and touring and their management and relationships had more to do with their marketing than Jive did
They your heavily based on their second and third albums. Those records were marketed by jive. They were paid for by jive. Shit don't think on the radio without being paid for. Street teams for paid for to get it further into the streets. Jive doesn't even exist no more. They do and they're touring. They won.
 

ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
The only way is through labels? ....in 1989, yeah, but not 2018, c'mon @ViCiouS niggas go viral everyday. It's just most are too uninformed on how to monetize virality. It just comes down to how smart the artist is now, including the intel they have on the industry. Yeah there are scammers, but if you go with reputable people you can win. Remember, I said "business savvy" artist. If an artist knows how to handle money well (ie, not pissing off all the money and instead pouring it back into the business), they can win.

I'm not saying it's a formula for most, I'm talking about the exceptional ones.
there aren't any exceptional ones... any famous artist that's "indy" - is really in partnership or even under contract to an entertainment company

monetizing social media even for someone that frequently generates viral content does not = fame
nor even infamy

in this discussion fame is having a lasting presence or impact on pop culture
the gatekeepers that demand payment in some form for that are the companies that own or control media
Hollywood, major labels, news media

I see.

Anyway heres some Info for the fam, here's wikipedia's explanation of recoupment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoupment
Suppose that a music label gives a band a $250,000 advance to record an album. The label agrees to do so in return for 90% of the sales. In addition, the label will specify certain standards for production of the album, for example, which studios the band will engage. The label may even hold the advance and make all disbursements on the band's behalf, ensuring the funds are used exactly as agreed. In other words, the $250,000 advance is not simply pocketed by the band -- it is to be spent on album production and the band's reasonable expenses during production. The album is recorded, and sells 200,000* copies at $10 each, yielding $2m. The record company takes 90% of this as agreed, leaving the band with $200,000 of their own. This is the situation without recoupment.

With recoupment, the label advances the band $250,000 as before. As before, the band (or the label, on the band's behalf) spends substantially all of the advance to produce an album meeting the label's specifications. The album again sells 200,000 copies at $10 each, yielding $2m. The record company takes 100% of the first $250,000 in sales (recouping the $250,000 advance to the band), and 90% of all further sales, as agreed. The band's net is effectively reduced to 0% of the first $250,000 in sales and 10% of the further $1.75m, leaving them with a total of $175,000.

*Recoupment deals primarily involve new artists, or those without a proven sales history, so selling 200,000 copies would be fairly unusual. More typically, 10,000 or fewer copies are sold by a new artist. In this more typical case, the label recoups only $100,000 of the $250,000 advance, along with other non-recoupable expenses incurred in getting the album out into the world.
everything is recoupable

they might shift the costs around - but the label will always recoup costs at a generous profit
 

ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
They your heavily based on their second and third albums. Those records were marketed by jive. They were paid for by jive. Shit don't think on the radio without being paid for. Street teams for paid for to get it further into the streets. Jive doesn't even exist no more. They do and they're touring. They won.
No that bar is from check the rhyme, it was the lead single on their 2nd album - shit Jive didn't give them real marketing until Midnight Marauders

Red Alert broke the Tribe singles from the 1st album.... he was mentoring Ali Q and Jungle Brothers for years at that point and helped walk them in to get deals. Jive didn't know how to brand or market Tribe - look at their first videos
-Bonita Applebum was the only single they fully got behind and got spins. The other singles got worked by Red Alert and pushed by other DJs -
 

cashwhisperer

My favorite key is E♭
BGOL Investor
there aren't any exceptional ones... any famous artist that's "indy" - is really in partnership or even under contract to an entertainment company

monetizing social media even for someone that frequently generates viral content does not = fame
nor even infamy

in this discussion fame is having a lasting presence or impact on pop culture
the gatekeepers that demand payment in some form for that are the companies that own or control media
Hollywood, major labels, news media

online translates to offline as well.

In a partnership, you ain't gettin 12%. It's all about what leverage you have.
 

cashwhisperer

My favorite key is E♭
BGOL Investor
indys own the festival circuit and some are millionaires now because of events like the governors ball
its a bunch of indy millionaires with strong fan bases and lucrative tours that you haven't heard of.

A real indy gets on the Breakfast Club via relationships -1 in a 100 got there only by going viral
-most of the indy you've seen on club got there after a label or entertainment company is courting the artist or signed on a project with them.

By fame I'm talking people that never heard your music still heard of you.
Fame opens the door to A-list sponsors and endorsement deals, placement in arena and maybe stadium tours, access to the grammy awards, nominations even, your red carpet pics at the oscars or Met Gala, etc being seen across media ,
hosting SNL - guest roles and cameos in hollywood studio movies, access to party with politicians and billionaire CEOs

Without a label or other entertainment company backing - those doors don't open

still, an artist can buy a media tour. It's how you play the game.
 

Day_Carver

Rising Star
Registered
Like I said most not all... Pimp/,hoe relationship pimp takes all to majority of money... Manager/talent relationship majority of the money goes to the talent and manager gets a percentage... There are business that get piece of the workers revenue while the worker keeps most of the percentage... The business survives due to having lots of workers.. Barbershops/beauty salons they charge a weekly fee for the chair and the barber keeps the rest of their money... Some conventions/events charge for booths and allow the vendor to keep the rest of their money...webcam , club tip ins, etc..quiet a few business work on that model
Lol bro come on. You playing semantics lol. America is a pimp hoe country, hell this world is lol. Music business no different....
 

Day_Carver

Rising Star
Registered
The key issue is you handing over your ip to a company vs. retaining your ip and keeping majority of the profit.

If I'm a coder at Google and I come up with a groundbreaking algorithm that leads to making the company billions, I have a choice of staying with Google and making millions (probably) OR creating my own company and potentially making billions. Both options have pros & cons. The future is always unclear and hindsight is 20/20.

There's really no right or wrong choice, you just have to decide if you're willing to pay the cost to be the boss.
No you don't have a choice. When you're a coder,for a company like Google, you sign over your rights just like an artist. You're Google property and bets believe they would sue u. Coder sign all types of crazy contracts with these companies....
 

Dr. Truth

보지를 먹어라
BGOL Investor
Who cares what the truth "sounds like"? The truth is you would change places with any of those artists "getting fucked" and theyre all richer than any of us. 95% of the world would, including some of the people they claim to
Be getting fucked by.
Ummm lmao wrong
 

cashwhisperer

My favorite key is E♭
BGOL Investor
No you don't have a choice. When you're a coder,for a company like Google, you sign over your rights just like an artist. You're Google property and bets believe they would sue u. Coder sign all types of crazy contracts with these companies....

That's not necessarily true. If Google can't prove you used company time and resources to develop your code, they don't have rights to your ip.
 

tallblacknyc

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
Lol bro come on. You playing semantics lol. America is a pimp hoe country, hell this world is lol. Music business no different....
Hey like I said most not all..various business I pointed out generate millions to billions of revenue each yr so it's not like it's something you can bat an eye at..there's various other business that work in similar fashion...certain entities could work on the same business model but they choose not to
 

Mrfreddygoodbud

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
and those stupid assholes wasted all that time and money worried about so called illegal downloads...

muthafuckas still sharing files, and they still makin record money....

they were so shook over napster... young heads dont know nothing bout napster..

lol
 

ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
still, an artist can buy a media tour. It's how you play the game.
you missed the point
artist or investor - they can buy media placement, get promoters to push singles and radio spins and even put together a successful social media / youtube campaign

They can make money on sales / streams build an audience eventually create their own sales / streaming platform - make a LOT of money touring.
(getting there requires expertise - and that too can be bought )
For me - that's extremely successful -

but there will be no benefits of fame - impact or presence in pop culture
no access to larger or premium venues or dominant mass media outlets -

In some places A LOT less forgiveness for the unexpected, no help to intervene for you or to get your team out of hot water or vouch for any perceived unreliability (In certain areas in the US not even god can help you if your team some how fucks up and crosses LiveNation or AEG)
------


Macklemore and others like him - indy and self promoted their show for years, were millionaires with faithful enthusiastic fans - he knew who his fans were and built and utilized tools to keep them informed - so they always came out for him . Over 10 years he built up to the point that he easily sold up to 200k albums in the first week
He could easily sell out arenas in his home markets.
but after a financially successful 10 year career he couldn't book an arena or get mass media access until he made a distribution deal with Universal
 

cashwhisperer

My favorite key is E♭
BGOL Investor
but there will be no benefits of fame - impact or presence in pop culture
no access to larger or premium venues or dominant mass media outlets -

And as I said, there are pros and cons either way. Cuz yeah you're doing an arena, but 12% of an arena. It's all about your goals. I prefer fortune over fame a bit more.
 

hardawayz16

Rising Star
Registered
If you get a big budget, drop an album and flop, what label is going to pick you up? I saw a lot of acts with big budgets utterly fail, often dragging down the A&R and execs that pushed that shit. Only established acts that had hit's get a second chance.

Only flop I can think of was The RZA and GZA who re-invented themselves in Wu-tang.

I can't speak on the budgets but 2 rappers off the top of the head are T.I. who got dropped by Arista after that first album flopped,

and we all know the 50 story....
 

exiledking

Rising Star
OG Investor
No that bar is from check the rhyme, it was the lead single on their 2nd album - shit Jive didn't give them real marketing until Midnight Marauders

Red Alert broke the Tribe singles from the 1st album.... he was mentoring Ali Q and Jungle Brothers for years at that point and helped walk them in to get deals. Jive didn't know how to brand or market Tribe - look at their first videos
-Bonita Applebum was the only single they fully got behind and got spins. The other singles got worked by Red Alert and pushed by other DJs -
Red alert may have broken it IN NEW YORK , But that's one damn city. Someone else has to take the momentum from New York and get it heard on radio in the REST OF TBE COUNTRY. You telling me they paid for their own videos, promo tour, out themselves on tour with fine young cannibals or whoever the fuck it was that put them in front of crossover audiences, that made them bigger than most rap groups at the time? Nah. Great line, some truth, but artists are shady too. Actually we saw how they called EACH OTHER shady in their own documentary, as well as the director of said doc. It's business. Shit happens. You're not gonna be happy at every turn. Bottom line, it worked out
 

ViCiouS

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
Red alert may have broken it IN NEW YORK , But that's one damn city. Someone else has to take the momentum from New York and get it heard on radio in the REST OF TBE COUNTRY. You telling me they paid for their own videos, promo tour, out themselves on tour with fine young cannibals or whoever the fuck it was that put them in front of crossover audiences, that made them bigger than most rap groups at the time? Nah. Great line, some truth, but artists are shady too. Actually we saw how they called EACH OTHER shady in their own documentary, as well as the director of said doc. It's business. Shit happens. You're not gonna be happy at every turn. Bottom line, it worked out
1. Red 's crew pretty much broke Tribe records from VA to Toronto- underground, nightlife to college radio ... the only national promo for Tribe on the first album was Bonita Applebum single, there was no real promo for the album

2.The tour you are thinking of was after album 2 - the touring they did before low end theory was label showcases, and spot dates

3. Tribe crossed over with LET not People's Instinctive Travels... college kids etc went back and found People because of LET

4. them calling each other shady after +25 years of various solo music and business ventures that often conflicted - is to be expected
 

exiledking

Rising Star
OG Investor
1. Red 's crew pretty much broke Tribe records from VA to Toronto- underground, nightlife to college radio ... the only national promo for Tribe on the first album was Bonita Applebum single, there was no real promo for the album

2.The tour you are thinking of was after album 2 - the touring they did before low end theory was label showcases, and spot dates

3. Tribe crossed over with LET not People's Instinctive Travels... college kids etc went back and found People because of LET

4. them calling each other shady after +25 years of various solo music and business ventures that often conflicted - is to be expected
1. Let's say I accepted your speculation about red breaking it from NYC to Toronto as fact lol. That still ain't shit. BET played it. MTV played it. I guess red alert did all that too.

2. I'm only talkingthe second album on. The first record didn't really do shit, and there's only one or two joints on that anyway. The 2nd and 3rd were classics. Now if the label had failed to expose those two, we might be having a discussion. But then again we wouldn't because we wouldn't know about em. And even after their crossover success because of those tours , it was the cool shit to say back then that they didn't want hip-hop to go pop, so them and de la purposefully stunted their own growth.

3.yes I agree. I don't even count the first album. I mean I like a few on there that still play but mostly the album was not nearly as good as LET and MM.

4. And yes, it is to be expected for people who work together to have problems. That also applies to the label they were working with, the label that helped launch them into being the legends they still are, and who helped promote them to be a group who can still sell out tours 30 years later when that label doesn't even exist anymore.
 

Helico-pterFunk

Rising Star
BGOL Legend
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/arts/music/popcast-merch-fashion.html



http://podbay.fm/show/120315823/e/1533939928?autostart=1



https://www.nytimes.com/podcasts/music-popcast



http://podbay.fm/show/120315823










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