Money Debate: Is 400 K per year considered middle class income by today's standards?

mrcmd187

Controversy Creates Cash
BGOL Investor
you are above middle class but i wouldn't consider you rich. upper middle class to me is basic doctors or lawyers. 4ook is a successful businessman owner. i consider that high class just one notch over upper middle class. you can maximize your earnings with location.

bums 5k less
poor 6-25
working class 26-45
lower middle class 46-70
middle class 71-99
upper middle class 100-250
high class 251-1 mil
rich 1.1 - 10.5 mil
wealthy 10.6 +
Location is the key and the life style you lead. The Cac definition of what poor, middle class and rich is has change over the years more or less to fit their narrative. My grandfather working for Chrysler in Detroit back in the day made roughly 75k a year cost of living was way lower then but we weren't considered middle class cause of it being Detroit and labeled a poor city by the media in the 70s and 80s but truth be told it didn't really didn't happen till the 90s.
 
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VAiz4hustlaz

Proud ADOS and not afraid to step to da mic!
BGOL Investor
you are above middle class but i wouldn't consider you rich. upper middle class to me is basic doctors or lawyers. 4ook is a successful businessman owner. i consider that high class just one notch over upper middle class. you can maximize your earnings with location.

bums 5k less
poor 6-25
working class 26-45
lower middle class 46-70
middle class 71-99
upper middle class 100-250
high class 251-1 mil
rich 1.1 - 10.5 mil
wealthy 10.6 +

What are you basing your numbers and categories on?
 

tallblacknyc

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster



I'm gonna end this here. I hate liars and thieves. You have stolen our time with your lies.


There is no "we." You are basically the only person saying this. Lastly, you obviously do not understand what rich is. Being rich is relative. There is no quantifiable amount that determines this akin to the poverty line.

Again my G, you are not mentally ready for this discussion.

Aren’t you the same person that claimed I made 100s of threads about voting for Biden in another thread? That right there put you on the next level of lying..nigs been fig out you were a fraud.. remember you claimed you could find a shitload of apts for people only making $15 an hr.. it took you 3 days to post 6 apts in some shitty areas..remember you mr I know a bunch of cribs for $15 hr workers

Actually, you are the plant put here to persuade brothers and sisters that all is lost and that there is nothing they can do to make their lives better. You have hundreds of threads where you tell black folk to wait on the government particularly the democrats to save us. Remember you told everyone..."vote Biden!! He will make things better."
 
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Chills

International member
BGOL Investor
Location and ability to live within ones means is the difference maker imho. 400k in nyc/sf for a fam of 3 or 4 can look rich but more likely middle class but there are plenty variables like debt etc. In lower cost of living cities that's more likely rich.

Now if just a couple/single and gross 400k annually then cheers...that's not debatable.
 

jack walsh13

Jack Walsh 13
BGOL Investor
400k in NYC is not middle class at all. You're very well off.

The people that say that's middle class in NYC and other spots are the fools that think these cities are made up of only 4 or 5 neighborhoods they've heard of.
Yup. Your right

UJur1k.jpg
 

MistaPhantastic

Rising Star
Platinum Member
This thread is an example of how GREED has infected western culture and is part of the reason that the rest of the world hates us.
There are plenty of stats that show that America is the least happy industrialized nation in the world, has the least amount of vacation time among its citizens and has the worst work/life balance. Why? So we can buy more shit. Why? So corporations can sell us more shit and make the richest even richer.
Most people in other countries don't even have more than one television in their house. How many screens you got?
America in general suffers from affluenza. This thread is proof of that and most black folk in the U.S. are in the bottom earners compared to whites.
Still, mid six-figure incomes are mediocre. :rolleyes2:
People used to aspire to be millionaires...now its billionaires. That's just greed. Plain and simple. Greed is what keeps you grinding for the wealthiest in the country - the .001%ers who vacation for a living.
 

0utsyder

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
In San Fran I would think this is middle class. But in Michigan you're maybe middle upper class. It all depends on where you live
 

0utsyder

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Michigan? LOL you rich in Michigan with that money. The median home price in San Francisco is over a million dollars vs. $80,000 in Detroit

Homie, I am MidWest for life... Except for Illinois! These mothefcukers want to be East/West coast elite so bad!!! Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio and Michigan 400k will last you a lifetime! Illinois that shyt is gone in a year!!!
 

Tito_Jackson

Truth Teller
Registered
With all due respect, many of you should consider taking a course on finance. Many of do not have an inkling of an idea of how money works what is needed to survive or buy things.

For example:

For all of you who say that $400K isn't much in San Francisco, ask anyone in real estate, particularly those who understand mortgages, if a person has an annual income of $400K, $50K down, he or she can afford a home well over $1.5 million in the San Francisco area.

This is not a middle class home. $1.2M can be purchased by a person earning $400K.


Additionally, all homes in the area are not million dollar homes. More correctly, the homes you desire are million dollar homes. But, there are homes available.

Here is a great middle class home for $500K in the San Francisco area.


Again, my aim is not to be disrespectful. But, it must be said. There are those who are just observing and reading the comments wondering if they are failures or if they are losing in life because they are not living up to the fantasy BGOL millionaire dreams.

A person getting what they want does not mean that there is no availability.

FYI: The median income for a single person in San Francisco is $123K. This is well under $400K.
 
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A to Dah K

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
400k in NYC is not middle class at all. You're very well off.

The people that say that's middle class in NYC and other spots are the fools that think these cities are made up of only 4 or 5 neighborhoods they've heard of.
Them the people paying 7k a month for an 900 sq ft 2 bedroom apartment
 

0utsyder

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
With all due respect, many of you should consider taking a course on finance. Many of do not have an inkling of an idea of how money works what is needed to survive or buy things.

For example:

For all of you who say that $400K isn't much in San Francisco, ask anyone in real estate, particularly those who understand mortgages, if a person has an annual income of $400K, $50K down, he or she can afford a home well over $1.5 million in the San Francisco area.

This is not a middle class home. $1.2M can be purchased by a person earning $400K.


Additionally, all homes in the area are not million dollar homes. More correctly, the homes you desire are million dollar homes. But, there are homes available.

Here is a great middle class home for $500K in the San Francisco area.


Again, my aim is not to be disrespectful. But, it must be said. There are those who are just observing and reading the comments wondering if they are failures or if they are losing in life because they are not living up to the fantasy BGOL millionaire dreams.

A person getting what they want does not mean that there is no availability.

FYI: The median income for a single person is $123K. This is well under $400K.

I don't live in San Francisco, which is why I said; 'I would think". I am FROM Michigan and I still gave a "maybe" to my statement. I can only speak for myself but with all due respect my point still stands that the cost of living in one region is greater than the other.
 

A to Dah K

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
With all due respect, many of you should consider taking a course on finance. Many of do not have an inkling of an idea of how money works what is needed to survive or buy things.

For example:

For all of you who say that $400K isn't much in San Francisco, ask anyone in real estate, particularly those who understand mortgages, if a person has an annual income of $400K, $50K down, he or she can afford a home well over $1.5 million in the San Francisco area.

This is not a middle class home. $1.2M can be purchased by a person earning $400K.


Additionally, all homes in the area are not million dollar homes. More correctly, the homes you desire are million dollar homes. But, there are homes available.

Here is a great middle class home for $500K in the San Francisco area.


Again, my aim is not to be disrespectful. But, it must be said. There are those who are just observing and reading the comments wondering if they are failures or if they are losing in life because they are not living up to the fantasy BGOL millionaire dreams.

A person getting what they want does not mean that there is no availability.

FYI: The median income for a single person is $123K. This is well under $400K.
First crib is dope
You would need to put well over 50k down,but def affordable with a 400k/yr salary
 

A to Dah K

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
This thread is an example of how GREED has infected western culture and is part of the reason that the rest of the world hates us.
There are plenty of stats that show that America is the least happy industrialized nation in the world, has the least amount of vacation time among its citizens and has the worst work/life balance. Why? So we can buy more shit. Why? So corporations can sell us more shit and make the richest even richer.
Most people in other countries don't even have more than one television in their house. How many screens you got?
America in general suffers from affluenza. This thread is proof of that and most black folk in the U.S. are in the bottom earners compared to whites.
Still, mid six-figure incomes are mediocre. :rolleyes2:
People used to aspire to be millionaires...now its billionaires. That's just greed. Plain and simple. Greed is what keeps you grinding for the wealthiest in the country - the .001%ers who vacation for a living.
:groupwave:
 

sammyjax

Grand Puba of Science
Platinum Member
Well, you know BGOL isn't anywhere near a true representation of reality, especially for black America. It's some cats on here that I've seen with insane amounts of money. 8 figures and cool as shit. They don't even showoff or talk shit.

But yeah, outside of BGOL median black household networth is just 24k. For whites, it's 188k. And that's included homes. :eek: So yeah, BGOL ain't normal by a long shot. Most people work their entire lives and barely will have 400k for their retirements.

Nice to see the success around here, but it's far from normal.
yeah the demo here is tech savvy niggas in their 40s and up which I think would skew more financially successful.

Most Bgol niggas have been aghast of the game since the late 90s
A person can earn $50K a year and also be rich. In fact he or she can be richer than the person earning $400K or your $470K. But, you are not mentally ready to have that conversation.
This nigga here
 

VAiz4hustlaz

Proud ADOS and not afraid to step to da mic!
BGOL Investor
yeah the demo here is tech savvy niggas in their 40s and up which I think would skew more financially successful.

Gotta disagree here. While there are many tech savvy brothers on the board, as well as those savvy in other fields, the core demo is still basically brothers who like porn, hot bitches, etc! Let's not forget who we really are!

Most Bgol niggas have been aghast of the game since the late 90s

Aghast?

This nigga here

You disagree? Many truly wealthy people actually have little to no income; they generate money from dividends and via other means that aren't as taxable. But if your point is that the average $50k earner usually isn't richer than the average $400k earner, then I agree.
 

Tito_Jackson

Truth Teller
Registered
First crib is dope
You would need to put well over 50k down,but def affordable with a 400k/yr salary
Paying more down would be ideal. But, you'd be surprised how many lenders would offer a low down-payment on a conventional loan for a million dollar home. As we established, lenders look for low risk customers. A person earning $400K is in the top 1.8% and with decent credit would be considered very low risk. The lender would make it up with the interest rate and the interest payments.

Yeah, it is a dope crib tho.

But if your point is that the average $50k earner usually isn't richer than the average $400k earner, then I agree.
And this is true. Most $50K brothers and sisters are not richer than a $400K. My point to the other poster was that they can be, which denotes to a deeper understanding of the financial system as you began to point out.
 

black again

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
With all due respect, many of you should consider taking a course on finance. Many of do not have an inkling of an idea of how money works what is needed to survive or buy things.

For example:

For all of you who say that $400K isn't much in San Francisco, ask anyone in real estate, particularly those who understand mortgages, if a person has an annual income of $400K, $50K down, he or she can afford a home well over $1.5 million in the San Francisco area.

This is not a middle class home. $1.2M can be purchased by a person earning $400K.


Additionally, all homes in the area are not million dollar homes. More correctly, the homes you desire are million dollar homes. But, there are homes available.

Here is a great middle class home for $500K in the San Francisco area.


Again, my aim is not to be disrespectful. But, it must be said. There are those who are just observing and reading the comments wondering if they are failures or if they are losing in life because they are not living up to the fantasy BGOL millionaire dreams.

A person getting what they want does not mean that there is no availability.

FYI: The median income for a single person in San Francisco is $123K. This is well under $400K.
First crib is dope
You would need to put well over 50k down,but def affordable with a 400k/yr salary
Paying more down would be ideal. But, you'd be surprised how many lenders would offer a low down-payment on a conventional loan for a million dollar home. As we established, lenders look for low risk customers. A person earning $400K is in the top 1.8% and with decent credit would be considered very low risk. The lender would make it up with the interest rate and the interest payments.

Yeah, it is a dope crib tho.


And this is true. Most $50K brothers and sisters are not richer than a $400K. My point to the other poster was that they can be, which denotes to a deeper understanding of the financial system as you began to point out.

I always say, talk about what you know about..

Let's use this example for the crib in El Cerritos..

BTW, i did a few thousand residential mortgages, over several years, so I have a lil knowledge on this...

First of all, there's 3 main things to get your loan approved:

Credit
Debt ratios
And LTV (loan to value)

You gotta usually have 2 outta 3 in your favor to get approved.

If Tito thinks a 1.5 mil loan Is a conventional loan, then he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

That's a Jumbo loan. I believe the conventional limit is $548k..or thereabouts..

Jumbo loans have different LTV requirements. It's been a minute, since I did a loan, but you MIGHT be able to find a lender who'll do one with 5% down.

But more importantly, just cuz you make $400k don't mean SHIT, if your ratios are screwed up OR if you can't prove you make $400k.

Most smart business owners can write off a shit load of income. The problem is it bites you in the ass when you wanna apply for a loan .... cough, cough, trump cough.

You have NO IDEA how many times I tried to work a deal with a self-employed borrower, who made a grip, but couldn't show it.

It's not as cut and dry as dude tries to paint it, that your $400k salary is automatic for a million dollar loan.
 

babygwirl18

Rising Star
Registered
It depends on what is considered middle class. If lower class means struggling, middle class means comfortable but has to keep an eye on expenses, and upper class is live like a “rich” person, then $400k in NYC is middle class.

It sounds crazy, but in a city where houses in the hood cost more than $1 million you need more to be rich. If you make $400k a year (total family income) and you own your place then you probably either live check to check in Manhattan, or you live in the hood in BK or you live far out in the outer boroughs or suburbs. Your neighbors are probably plumbers, contractors, or the like.

Now if you made $400k a year for 10 years and saved well, you can be considered rich.
 

BKF

Rising Star
Registered
It depends on what is considered middle class. If lower class means struggling, middle class means comfortable but has to keep an eye on expenses, and upper class is live like a “rich” person, then $400k in NYC is middle class.

It sounds crazy, but in a city where houses in the hood cost more than $1 million you need more to be rich. If you make $400k a year (total family income) and you own your place then you probably either live check to check in Manhattan, or you live in the hood in BK or you live far out in the outer boroughs or suburbs. Your neighbors are probably plumbers, contractors, or the like.

Now if you made $400k a year for 10 years and saved well, you can be considered rich.
Wait...you think the top 1.8% is filled with contractors, plumbers and the like? In that bracket you are living next to doctors, lawyers, VP's, CEOs, business owners, top school administractors, etc....
 

MistaPhantastic

Rising Star
Platinum Member
Wait...you think the top 1.8% is filled with contractors, plumbers and the like? In that bracket you are living next to doctors, lawyers, VP's, CEOs, business owners, top school administractors, etc....
I think he was speaking specifically of NY.
That sounds about right, given the cost of living there.
In the case of Seattle, Seattle is a tech city. the people in that income bracket are software company managers, some of the higher up software engineers, as well as the average jobs everywhere else. Seattle is also a port city, so there are import/export jobs as well as Boeing. The rest of WA ain't living like the metro Seattle area and it costs a lot less in those places.
A lot of small business owners also fall in that income bracket.
In NY, you also have things like the fashion industry and more extensive financial jobs that have higher paying salaries that may not be applicable in other places.
Every place has its employment roster specific to that city, state or area. NY and CA are exceptionally high compared to many other places in the U.S.
 

BKF

Rising Star
Registered
I think he was speaking specifically of NY.
That sounds about right, given the cost of living there.
In the case of Seattle, Seattle is a tech city. the people in that income bracket are software company managers, some of the higher up software engineers, as well as the average jobs everywhere else. Seattle is also a port city, so there are import/export jobs as well as Boeing. The rest of WA ain't living like the metro Seattle area and it costs a lot less in those places.
A lot of small business owners also fall in that income bracket.
In NY, you also have things like the fashion industry and more extensive financial jobs that have higher paying salaries that may not be applicable in other places.
Every place has its employment roster specific to that city, state or area. NY and CA are exceptionally high compared to many other places in the U.S.
She said far out in the outer boroughs or the suburbs. Plumbers, contractors and the like make good money. They don't generally make 400k.
Scarsdale, NY is the wealthiest town in NY and happens to be the second wealthiest town in the country.

The median income for a household is $182,792, and the median income for a family was $291,542.

Median listing price for homes is 1.1 million.
 

Famous1

Rising Star
Platinum Member
Got a homie from OSU, just moved 90 minutes outside LA, 3k Sq ft crib sits on a whole acre paid just under 500K after flipping his first 3 cribs all for profits.....

Dude probably makes $100 - $150k
/yr....no kids....he's living good. And can travel to "the city" whenever he likes..... $400k is not rich in 2021 in any part of the USA....it is upper middle class, but depending on the city you can definitely live more comfortably than others.
There is a time component. 400k a year for 10 years or more makes you rich.
That's 7,600 dollars a week. That's 1520 dollars a day...fuck what yall talkin bout.... :lol:
 
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