Dude is such a beautiful fighting machine. Him and Crawford are the two fighters I will pay to see live right now
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If that's what u believe I hope it makes your day. As I said, I also know what motivates you so to me that completely invalidates any real position you take on these matters. You have your opinion and I have mine. You've also exposed yourself too, more than you know
Dude is widely discussed in boxing circles by people paid for their boxing expertise as in the discussion for P4P #1, but your opinion.... nevermind
Yea. Calling it like it is. I don't make up facts to validate my claims about fighters.
My claim had nothing to do with his record. You introduced that shit. My opinion still stands which is what initiated this discussion, Dude is an incredibly Beautifully skilled fighter, the most complete fighter currently boxing and possibly the most complete fighter ever. Records notwithstanding. And as I said, you claim I have a fantasy view of him, cool that's your Opinion.
The fact remains 95% of the most respected boxing minds agree with my assessment of him.
Bottom-line dude, the majority of the negativity about fighters here is race related. You guys go hard to invalidate performances by any boxer has not black. Check your profile, you don't work this hard about any fighter if they're not black whether it's this dude, triple G, any non black fighter.
I really just entertainws the discussion with you to humor myself but from minute one when you quotwd my initial post already knew what time it was. Check your post record and find me 1 black fighter who's been celebrated here that you've gone this far to try and invalidate
My view and opinion still is what it is, no matter what you type Bruh.
So when you quite my post, after your get whatever it is you get off of your chest, quote a series of your posts with the context I requested too....
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Actually you did. You rambled on about him doing 'what's never been done in any era' Never minding the influx of titles, and the boy is nearly 30 years old w/ 10 professional fights.
In what way(s) is he more complete than a Pretty Boy Floyd?
He's defeated 5 undefeated fighters? Yea, fantasy.
This same media belittles ATG's like S.O.G. and Mayweather (they're boring.)
I can agree w/ this. When I see a guy like Loma (who's fought basically no one) leapfrog guys like Bud, Ward, Canelo. Yea it bothers me because 9 times out of 10 their ranking ARE based on race/politics.
Likewise.
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I appreciate all of this, but that being said, I'm still waiting for the posts invalidating a black fighter in this thread or any other though. I actually requested that in my follow up to the posts you quoted. Didn't see it?
So, if you are telling me the scenarios you name are exclusively benefited by non black fighters, say that.
Also, if you are telling me that all of the other black fighters you've given big ups too here, have flawless unquestioned competition on their resume, and have earned by beating the best of the best, your respect and admiration, please say so...
If not, please quote for me your quotes based on the context I requested... I'm sure you've seen that post I made asking for that information so...
I appreciate all of this, but that being said, I'm still waiting for the posts invalidating a black fighter in this thread or any other though. I actually requested that in my follow up to the posts you quoted. Didn't see it?
So, if you are telling me the scenarios you name are exclusively benefited by non black fighters, say that.
Also, if you are telling me that all of the other black fighters you've given big ups too here, have flawless unquestioned competition on their resume, and have earned by beating the best of the best, your respect and admiration, please say so...
If not, please quote for me your quotes based on the context I requested... I'm sure you've seen that post I made asking for that information so...
I don't care what you've requested. You want something? You find it yourself.
As expected... Thanks
I respect Loma. Real talk. But the reality is that he is being crowned by his Promoter (who is a joke when it comes to touting his fighters) and the media (often trying to hype prospects to keep the sport alive) as the most complete fighter since Ali or possibly ever... based on what?
Can't be his pro career. He hasn't fought anyone to gauge his talents. It's based on his amateur career - which many respected experts say was one of the best ever. Is that enough?
I say let's see him against great or even really good fighters before we say that. He did beat Gary Russell's ass.
Floyd. Manny. Ward. Marquez all earned it at the pro level. We are rushing the process. Hell-Spence and Crawford have earned it more than Loma.
Can't be his pro career. He hasn't fought anyone to gauge his talents. It's based on his amateur career - which many respected experts say was one of the best ever. Is that enough?
I say let's see him against great or even really good fighters before we say that. He did beat Gary Russell's ass.
Floyd. Manny. Ward. Marquez all earned it at the pro level. We are rushing the process. Hell-Spence and Crawford have earned it more than Loma.
I'll simply say this. If Spence cleans out 147, he is P4P. If Loma fights Garcia and Crawford/Rigo, he can get it. Right now, Ward is it for fighting the best in two pro weight divisions, having a great amateur career, and going after the best.
No one is trying to say this dude isn't the shit. It's just a little crazy they are bringing up Ali (who whipped the baddest man on the planet planet at the time at 19/20) when no one can really point to a pro fight for him to hang his hat on.
No one is trying to say this dude isn't the shit. It's just a little crazy they are bringing up Ali (who whipped the baddest man on the planet planet at the time at 19/20) when no one can really point to a pro fight for him to hang his hat on.
Seriously. Clowns talking about he's the closest thing to perfection we have in the sport. FOH with that nonsense.
He's good. Probably great, but let the man prove himself in the ring before you crown him the king.
If asking that Loma goes through the same evaluation as Ward, Canelo, Spence, Marquez, Manny is wrong, then fine.
I'm simply asking for an objective process and the only one I know of: fighting great fighters and challenging oneself. I think Loma wants to fight these folks, but will his father and Arum let him? Hopefully they will. Say what you say about Oscar, but he put Canelo in with great fighters and risks.
I'm simply asking for an objective process and the only one I know of: fighting great fighters and challenging oneself. I think Loma wants to fight these folks, but will his father and Arum let him? Hopefully they will. Say what you say about Oscar, but he put Canelo in with great fighters and risks.
I laugh at people who obviously struggle with critical thinking and then get all tender because they are borderline stupid in their lack of the ability to think on more than one level.
I still think in terms of skill set Lomachenkos is the closest thing to a perfect fighter I've ever seen, his command of punches, ability to give angles, defense and footwork are amazing.
Now, does that mean I think he is unbeatable? NO. would I favor any fighters over him in a fight? Yes, Terrance Crawford for one. Just because someone is a complete fighter doesn't mean they are invincible and cant be beaten just like a fighter with less losses doesn't mean they are better.
Zab Judah lost to Baldomir, Mayorga knocked out Vernon Forrest... so does that mean they were more skilled than Judah and Forrest?!?!?
Difference with me I guess is I watch the fighter and don't get all caught up bitching in the racial dynamic. A lot of geniuses in here only turn to bitches when a non-black fighter is complimented and then reveal their own ignorance which I find hilarious!
Take amongst yourselves but if anyone can name a fighter who IN TERMS OF SKILL is more complete than Lomachenkos please name him and give clear intelligent unemotional reasons why.
I still think in terms of skill set Lomachenkos is the closest thing to a perfect fighter I've ever seen, his command of punches, ability to give angles, defense and footwork are amazing.
Now, does that mean I think he is unbeatable? NO. would I favor any fighters over him in a fight? Yes, Terrance Crawford for one. Just because someone is a complete fighter doesn't mean they are invincible and cant be beaten just like a fighter with less losses doesn't mean they are better.
Zab Judah lost to Baldomir, Mayorga knocked out Vernon Forrest... so does that mean they were more skilled than Judah and Forrest?!?!?
Difference with me I guess is I watch the fighter and don't get all caught up bitching in the racial dynamic. A lot of geniuses in here only turn to bitches when a non-black fighter is complimented and then reveal their own ignorance which I find hilarious!
Take amongst yourselves but if anyone can name a fighter who IN TERMS OF SKILL is more complete than Lomachenkos please name him and give clear intelligent unemotional reasons why.
Well Floyd Mayweather for one especially The Pretty Boy version. Better "command" of punches(statistically most accurate puncher ever), bettter defense(least hit), and hit you from everywhere and when he was at the weight Loma is now he was absolutely destroying people. He also punched harder.
I said nothing of my opinion of him as a fighter so stop being all extra and sensitive. You said he beat a top 10 PFP fighter which was false, you got called out for it and can't admit you're wrong. Reading the rest of this thread that seems to be a common issue with you tho, you gotta stop with all the extra bullshit.
No doubt I misspoke on that but my point is, whenever a non black fighter is complemented, you guys IMMEDIATELY quote that post and start in with your bullshit on some other time. The whole dynamic is racially motivated and the shit is hilariously transparent. There are black fighters who fought a series of bums or haven't beaten anyone of major substasnce and you guys cope pleas or ignore their limited resumes, but will argue for pages against a non black fighter with a similar dynamic.
I may have misspoke about Lomenchenkos resume, but the fact remains all that extra shit was brought up simply because I complemented a non black fighter. Is a lot of you who need to cut the bullshit as well.
That's why a fighter like Spence, who I LOVE, get sweated here with a VERY limited resume which was padded early with no uppers, but an amazingly gifted fighter like Lomenchenko who has been fighting championship fights from day one gets discredited. You guys are hypocritical as fuck really... I actually find it quite amusing because you try to portray it differently
That why I believe the word opinion is a part of the English language. Just because you see things differently than someone else doesn't mean either of you are wrong... I do understand the 'smartest guy in the room' syndrome tho. It's on an epiidemic level on here....
There you go again with "you , you..", please quote where I said any of this bullshit? Why are you so extra and sensitive fam?
Whose sensitive? We can't have a discussion now? Cool....
The number of fights is nice, but when taking his age into account (29) it puts things in perspective.
If Lomachenko were performing at this same level at the age of 18 or 19 it'd be more of a feat.
Same goes for Rigo and Shimming. They're all small on number of fights but huge on experience.
Loma has nothing that looks like this. Floyd also made people quit. He was making super bowl predictions in the middle of fights
I respect your opinion...
Also, Floyd was a defensive genius as primarily a counter puncher. Lomachenko is a defensive genius as a come forward aggressive fighter. Floyd primarily pot shotted and got out of the way. Lomachenko throws a higher punch volume and more combinations which to me is impressive and more entertaining to watch.
While I respect Floyd as the best defensive fighter I've seen with an argument for Whitaker, his punch output while being defensive a huge factor.
I enjoyed this video, but it was against a war torn Gatti who had been in A LOT of wars and was a no-hope coming in...
Who has Floyd made quit on their stool? Not having their corner stop it but the actual fighter quit?
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Amateur experience is different from pro experience. But I definitely see your point. It also impacts their maturity and ability to adapt in the ring so it may help them in some ways.
It is very different, but 9 times out of ten, a supremely talented amatuer will destroy a young pro short on experience.
This is why I believe Ortiz murders Wilder. Wilder has all the physical advantages aside from weight/strength but, he's still super raw.
All fine and dandy, but do you agree or disagree with the opinion of PBF being the more complete fighter?
True. You learn a lot of technique in the amateurs. That's why a lot of times fighters with longer amateur careers last longer as pros too. Once you athletic ability starts to Go, the instincts take over.
I really don't and I actually gave my reasons in my post to the other Dude. I have a tough time giving it to him based on the context of his defensive genius. Will Lomachenkos have the in ring success Floyd had? Doubtful, if for nothing else Dude is damn near 30 already.
I temper my view of Floyd overall due to his pot shotting counter punching tendencies. Lomachenko is a great defensive fighter all the while stalking, being aggressive and throwing combinations not just one or at most 2 punches at a time.
A lot of times Floyd goes into his defensive posture after 1-2 punches, Lomachenko is making you miss while throwing combinations, using spectacular footwork and angles.
Are we talking about Floyd at 28-32 or 38-40 Floyd? This is all subjective but c'mon man. He was a straight stalker/power puncher from 130-140 and early days of 147. Watch him vs. Sharmba Mitchell at 147.
No doubt. I still see Lomenchenko as more overall complete tho. Just my opinion good brother. Floyd in terms of skill and overall body of work is arguably the best ever, can't put Lomachenkos in that overall class after 10 fights, but in my opinion, Lomachenkos is the more complete fighter.
Floyd NEVER threw the volume of punches Lomachenkos does, even in his power punching prime.
All good brotha, it's all opinion and we happen to disagree. I want to see good fights and would love to see Lima vs Garcia and Rigo. He looks good - just need to see him showcase his skills against other great fighters.
Floyd has A LOT more power than Lomachenko, so he didn't need to. Floyd hit guys and they either fell down or the ref stopped it.