She is a national treasure.
To quote myself from last year:
OMG You've been missing out. She's awesome. Here is a dkos diary she did where she told a lil about herself:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/25/1572889/-Becoming-Propane-Jane
Poor whites who vote GOP ARE NOT voting against their own interests
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She is a national treasure.
To quote myself from last year:
OMG You've been missing out. She's awesome. Here is a dkos diary she did where she told a lil about herself:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/9/25/1572889/-Becoming-Propane-Jane
Canonized, Lionized, Simonized, all I know is these white folks ain't shit
But yeah lol she's a beast for this one
good looking! thx ^^
White supremacy is killing white males at epidemic levels. It is responsible for their inability to reproduce at replacement levels. White supremacy is BAD for most white people. White supremacy is against most white people's best interest, regardless of their value of it.
They clearly don't mind sacrificing themselves. White supremacy is bad for all non-whites. That's good enough for them.
easily my favorite follow on twitter
Best interest is defined as a benefit or an advantage. An opinion towards it has no effect on it as a qualifier.
The fact that you like something detrimental does not change the nature of it, making it beneficial for or advantageous to you.
Your liking sugar does not mean it won't give you diabetes, therefore eating it in mass quantities is against your best interest.
Regardless of the popularity of white supremacy it is not good for most white people.
The opioid epidemic is a direct result of white supremacist policies unchecked.
White supremacy is against the best interests of most white people.
False premise. White supremacy is GREAT for white people..not just all of them. And they're fine with that as long as some white people get the benefit. It's not hard man. Don't overcomplicate it.
They want white people to have the whole $1. It doesn't matter if it's equally distributed amongst the whites. As long as white people have the $1. It can be one white person with it and they don't have a penny. They're fine with it. They've said as much when discussing the tax scam.
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This is the thought pattern of those who support Trump: "We all live in the house but Trump's going to pour gasoline all over the house and we're going to vote for him to light the match."
Dumb fuckers would rather burn and take credit knowing the voted for helping to light the match.
That Sir, is against their best interests, even if they don't know what their best interests are.
Dumb fuckers would rather burn and take credit knowing the voted for helping to light the match.
That Sir, is against their best interests, even if they don't know what their best interests are.
It's not hard to understand if you group them with a collective thought process based on their actions considering their voting history.
But through a perspective of poor white people on an individual level, they very well complain and bitch about what they ain't getting. They will even blame the very government they elected for their plights, but their group mentality says otherwise.
So for me, I get both points. White Supremacy benefits their interest as a whole, but it does not benefit poor whites on an individual level. And they know as individuals how fucked they are in many cases.
Propane Jane gets to the root of that. That it does not benefit them on an individual level (financially) is why people make the mistake of saying "they are voting against their interest". We know those poor ass, rural whites aren't benefiting from the GOP. If anyone should want a stronger social net, it should be them. What she does it look through it and explain why poor whites continuously support the GOP despite the fact they aren't gaining from it financially. It's because they value white supremacy MORE than their bank accounts.
They're not concerned with making their lives better. They're concerned with making your life worse.
This sums it up perfectly. The poor white people are voting on this illusion that they're better than people of color...even someone of color who is of a higher "class". But when they stay in their shitty position, they always will have someone to blame. It's hard to take a good look in the mirror, because many will not like what they see.
Classic Jedi mind trick.
I get that on a group level, but the conflict comes at an individual level for them. I tend not to associate the two mainly because some are remorseful of their decisions to vote GOP.
Yes, their actions says they value white supremacy more than our own financial interest. And action does speak louder than words.
I just can't assert they are trying to make our lives worse when worse for us ended in 1865. So they are trying to achieve a high they'll never get again.
White supremacy is like the GOP being a drug dealer and the poor whites are hooked on that drug. Yeah, the GOP is going to make sure they get high on that drug because they'll keep coming back as long as the supply is there. They trust them. Even if they raise prices, taxes, cut benefits and what not. They still come even though that drug is killing them slowly.
Yeah, best interest for their habits, but not for their health.
And trying to make it worse for us it fairly pointless considering our history.
it is not a false premise, as i continued to quantify it.
i continued to say it is not in the best interest of MOST WHITE PEOPLE.
this isnt even debatable, as the numbers completely reflect it.
Why education is such an important health indicator is difficult to untangle, Case added. “But when you think about what happens when industries pull out of towns, the tax base implodes, schools [are] not well funded, and the death spiral continues.”
In the past, people with low levels of education could get a job in a factory and work their way up the chain of command. “You could graduate high school, work at Bethlehem Steel, get more money every year as you get more experienced,” Deaton said, “and turn yourself into one of the famed blue-collar aristocrats of the 1970s.” Now, he added, “There’s a feeling that life has gone, and remainders of that life are getting less and less for each generation.”
By Race, White Children Make Up the Biggest Percentage of America’s Poor
New York City — A fact sheet released today by the National Center for Children in Poverty (NCCP) shows that, contrary to some common stereotypes about America’s poor, at least one-third of the 13 million children living in poverty are white.
“Poverty affects children of all colors, contrary to stereotypes. The notion held by many Americans that poverty is not a white problem is simply false,” says Jane Knitzer, EdD, director of NCCP, a research center at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health. “The sooner all Americans realize these facts about poverty, the better chance we have of eradicating it.”
http://www.nccp.org/media/releases/release_34.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-original-underclass/492731/
https://www.npr.org/sections/health...g-middle-aged-white-peoples-deaths-of-despair
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36116166
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/it-s-not-just-chris-cornell-suicide-rates-highest-among-n762221
https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea...ddle-class-dying-faster-explained-case-deaton
white supremacy is FAILING these people.
this DOES NOT MATTER.
something being "in your best interest" is quantifiable. it has NOTHING to do with your feelings, opinions or attitudes toward something.
white supremacy has NEVER been in the best interest of MOST white people.
White people think we get free health care that jobs we get are because of affirmative action that we don't pay for school that we get everything we get from the government
that's how they grow up believing and thinking and that's what the politicians tell them in code
to get tough on drugs tough on crime tough on welfare and healthcare
all of that is stuff they believe that we either do solely or that we benefit from solely its in their fibers.
they dont care about their health you keep trying to make it make logical sense it does not. that is why racism is a sickness and a delusion
you have to be psycho and crazy to believe in it and white supremacy and you see how the leaders of these movements are?
dumb as a bag of rocks from top to bottom from rural white guy to the president
all of them
dumb
as
fuck
and
catshit
crazy.
I don't think you said anything different that what I stated. I'm only pointing out that their benefit of white supremacy as a whole and and the non benefit they receive on a individual level both exist simultaneously.
And logical sense exist is multiple forms. You rational is just as logical as mine. Your speaking about them as a group. I'm not disputing that point. But the very thing that makes them delusional is the lie they tell themselves individually or what they believe to be true.
Yeah they crazy. But we definitely ain't talking much different. They may not care as a whole but many on a individual level do even against their own gain.
I don't know why you keep letting this go over your head.
It does not matter if that white person gets a penny if their value system is predicated on white people collectively having the penny. As long as your black ass doesn't get the penny, they are happy with their vote. You're ranting about stuff that everyone already knows. We already know poor whites suffer under the GOP. We aren't arguing that shit. She's explaining WHY they keep voting GOP.
How many articles do you think I've posted over the years related to the ones you've posted?
You're indirectly making her point. You're posting all these articles supporting that white individually suffer under GOP policies, but they keep voting for them! Propane is telling you WHY and you keep coming back "they are suffering!". No shit! We know that! lol
It's no conflict. I think what yall are struggling with is that people could sacrifice their personal well-being for white supremacy. Yes my man.. they hate your black ass that much that they're willing to live in poverty as long as they can keep the black community (collectively) impoverished. Poor whites been doing that for a long ass time my man.
Have yall ever read polls on poor whites thoughts on social nets? They support them unless they think non-whites benefit from them. They'll vote away social nets (even if they'll suffer)... i.e. the dumb ass whites who want to kill Obamacare but can't afford healthcare without it. They've been sold that it's an entitlement that's helping lazy americans (and also illegal immigrants) who should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". Why do you think those lazy people are?
Funny now that gop trying to take it away these cacs now realizing the Obamacare they thought negros was benefitting from is actually the AHCA that they been on saving their worthless lives and now they are pissing a bitch and raising hell not to take it away lmaooo
9 mill more cacs signed up
Obama is a fuckin genius.. That healthcare bill was a Trojan horse to have benefit for the people and fuck the GOP to shit once they tried and repeal it
I'm not disagreeing. I just understand it differently. What actions I observe and see from them is different from what I hear when I speak to them individually is all I'm saying. Poor white voting for white supremacy is for their best interest as a whole race and against the interest individually on the lower class which represents the majority of them.
I'm not unaware of the level of dislike they have for blacks. Even to the point they would sacrifice themselves to make it worse for us.
And maybe I'm speaking from my experience as an educator and the demographic of some of the students I teach are the very ones we are talking about right now. And even growing up around poor whites. So I'm more than familiar with their antics on a environments level.
They want the same things they vote against and the amount of rationality they come up with of why they didn't vote 'for their interest' is more than I can keep track of.
OMG!
Her argument is the ideology of white supremacy and it's perceived benefits rank above the social benefits that could come from voting DEM.
Come on man. If they buy in to white supremacy and they value it over social benefits from voting for another party, it's in their best interests.
Fuck. You're trying to logically argue why it's not. You don't have an argument with me. Go argue with those dumb muthafuckas. Anyone with half a brain knows they are being stupid. But they value white supremacy THAT much.
If you were behind closed doors with them and white they would tell you why they keep doing that shit
You're trying to argue that white supremacy is not in their best interest. They'll telling you it is regardless of what factual argument you make. Have you read what some of these dumb CACs have said about the new tax cuts? Literally, the Trump voters are saying they're fine with the 1% keeping more of their money because they've "earned it". They asked some of them about CHIP being cut and they shrugged.
You can't tell people what they value. That's a personal decision. If the dumb ass CACs value white supremacy over their own financial situation, it's their decision. Some people have destructive "interests". It's still theirs.
Buk. You trying to make it make sense. That's the whole point of this. It doesn't make any sense. That's why Propane also argues that the DEMs need to stop chasing those white voters because they obviously can't be reasoned with.
I personally agree with you that it's not in their real best interests. But they aren't reasonable people. Some people value smoking crack over all other things. Some people value things (that are destructive) over all other things. There are all kinds of reasons why they do it, but they do.
If you were behind closed doors with them and white they would tell you why they keep doing that shit
Lol. VERY true.
However, I'm fairly abrasive with them. Race is a discussion I will pull in with a quickness and have many of them admit their bigotry, but many are incapable of connecting their bigotry and how it affects them.
I actually don't disagree with you and Buk (from a logical perspective). I think what Propane is saying is you have to pull yourself out of the world of reason to truly understand why someone would do something that you think it's in their best interest. It is... it's just that their value system is fucked up.
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Her premise is logically flawed and poorly presented.
This is my point.
If voting for the GOP hurts you, it is not in your best interest.
That's it. Period.
Saying that their base is fucking crazy is fine.
But she is saying that it IS in their best interest.
Or is she not?
I'm not trying to get you to agree bruh. At least I don't believe that is my intention. I'm just hoping you can see my perspective on this particular discussion on ideology.
I acknockledged I understand what Propane was getting at and I agree with most her points. But I also have my understanding of this same topic as well. If my perspective is something you don't agree with or see the way I do, then that is cool. And I'm honest enough with myself to say if I don't understand, this is not one of those cases.
If you are saying to me i have to pull myself out of the world of reason to understand a thing then that is contradictory of trying to understand anything. An understanding of something without reason is chaotic. That comes off contradictory to me since I look for reasons when there may be none. But that's a totally different discussion. Philosophical at that.
You're just wrong there. You just disagree with it. You think people can't be driven to make decisions that serve to them "a higher purpose" beyond their individual gain. Ironic, for you.
I actually meant I don't "disagree".
In regards to this: Yes. Human decisions are mostly driven by non-logical constructs so you need to go beyond what would be "reasonable" to get to a conclusion. The common conclusion (which might seem reasonable) is these people are voting against their interest. They aren't. And many of them will directly tell you such. Lots of trumpsters blatantly stated such. They value white supremacy more than financial gains. It's the same way that women said the value paternalistic ideology over feminism so Trump being a blatant sexist is irrelevant to them.
Are these women voting against their interests? No. Not if they value white supremacy more than gender equality.
It is if you value white supremacy above all else. And it's kind idiotic to argue that people can't vote in a tribalistic manner even if as an individual tribe member they won't get the direct benefit, financially. Do you individually get anything for supporting a sports' team? No. But do people feel good when "their" team wins? Come on, this is basic shit about human dynamics. These people feel like "their team" won when, for instance, Trump won. And there are tons of "benefits" that come with white supremacy beyond a direct financial uptick in your bank account... i.e. the benefit of that said system supporting you as not a direct threat to society and you get the benefit of the doubt dealing with law enforcement.
no, i dont believe her premise or her conclusion.
it is factually flawed and intellectually dishonest.
some things are concrete, easily understood and factually based.
her article aint one of those things.