Should All Student Debt Be Cancelled?

[fles]

In principle, You should pay what you owe, I agree, I believe people should pay their mortgages, car loans, personal loans.

BUT

I'm sorry, an education should not hinge on loans.

In regards to colleges, the educational institutions and banks preyed upon young men and women who were programmed to believe that a college education was THE only way to get anywhere in life. Kids are shamed into believing that going to community or state college was not the smart way to go about it (that trend is changing) and that they had to go to the USC's & NYU's to be acknowledged after graduating. You cannot fault a kid for getting an engineering degree from a top school only to find out it that it's got a lot more to do with who you know (in many cases) than what school you went to or what GPA you had. When I hire kids, I don't give a FUCK about what school they went too nor do I put a major emphasis on GPA (don't get me wrong, don't like to see below a 2.75); it's about their character and how hungry they are because they will be learning all over again when it comes to the professional environment. While others, unfortunately ,hire on personal preference, references, etc.

This needs to be resolved and Universities & Banks need to be checked in the future. Tuitions should not be inflated and be kept in check. Loans should not be accruing interest during a students tenure, loans should not have exorbitant interest rates, and Private loan payments need to be flexible when it comes to a young adult's income fresh out of school ( don't expect a kid to pay 1,200 a month when they make 50,000 living in or near cities)

IMHO, This situation with Student Debt is 100% on the Education Institutions & Banks; as well as the Government for not checking on the greed of the former.

 

[COINTELPRO]

Many parents rush to pay the college tuition of their kids and they get a worthless degree. Rather than rushing to pay their tuition, they should set up some sort of trust for the hundred thousand or so dollars that they will be spending. College loans are one of the most flexible debt instruments on the planet, it is nearly impossible to default. A mortgage can default quite easily within a couple months and lead to foreclosure decimating your credit.

It is counterintuitive to what we naturally think is right but it makes logical sense. Access to college financing is a social benefit that we should be exploiting rather than shunning. The financial crisis could have been caused by this common practice that makes no sense.

 

[fles]

Many parents rush to pay the college tuition of their kids and they get a worthless degree. Rather than rushing to pay their tuition, they should set up some sort of trust for the hundred thousand or so dollars that they will be spending. College loans are one of the most flexible debt instruments on the planet, it is nearly impossible to default. A mortgage can default quite easily within a couple months and lead to foreclosure decimating your credit.

But what's going to happen 18 years from now. In regards to saving, How can parents keep up with the rate of tuition inflation? These schools need to be held in check. The cost of education is falling beyond the average American's reach IMO

 

[Heist]

so would you be alright if they gave everybody that has a student loan another loan at the same interest rates that the banks got with TARP?

It already exist. It’s called a loan modification program.
And then there’s loan refinancing.
And then of course there’s temporary forbearance.

 

[Famous1]

It already exist. It’s called a loan modification program.
And then there’s loan refinancing.
And then of course there’s temporary forbearance.

Tarp loans were at or near zero percent interest loans. Which one of the above programs fits that criteria for student loans? I'll ask again., Would you be opposed to a program in which the government relieves the student debtors of thier troubled assets?

 

[Famous1]

It already exist. It’s called a loan modification program.
And then there’s loan refinancing.
And then of course there’s temporary forbearance.

And a bigger question.
Why are you caping for these motherfugga's. What percieved benefit do you think you're getting by advocating for the U.S. govt to beat its citizenry out of as much cash as possible?

 

[Heist]

And a bigger question.
Why are you caping for these motherfugga's. What percieved benefit do you think you're getting by advocating for the U.S. govt to beat its citizenry out of as much cash as possible?

Because I understand how the capital investment and finance markets function, and what you propose is ultra-liberal ludicrous hairbrainery (not you, just the proposed plan).

A government sanctioned, private mass debt default because it’s Wednesday and the Price is Right is on at 11a.

Did that reason make any sense? So does allowing everyone to default their loans because they irresponsibility took out too much debt and don’t want to pay it back.

I’ve already outlined the dire ramifications.


At best I would endorse a PARTIAL debt forgiveness program on a basis that examines several factors, but never a full program.

 

[Drayonis]

Then business loans should be free, if you opt out of college and decide to start a business.

 

[Heist]

Tarp loans were at or near zero percent interest loans.

No zero interest for TARP. Low interest though. Rightful so. There were trillions in assets and collateral backing the loans. Physical assets and receivables that could liquidated if a default occurred.

What asset or collateral is backing a student loan? It’s unsecured debt. Unsecured debt always commands a higher interest rate - as it should.


Also law of large numbers. TARP made ~$16 billion for the government if I recall correctly.

Which one of the above programs fits that criteria for student loans?

All three programs I mentioned earlier are available to those with student loans.
There are more too. Teach for America pays off part of your loan. Certain towns and cities will pay off loans if you provide a service they need in their jurisdiction. There are certain hardship programs that will award a portion of debt forgiveness.

But of course the most direct answer: Don’t borrow what you cannot afford to pay back. Calculate the risk reward, benefit and payout.

I'll ask again., Would you be opposed to a program in which the government relieves the student debtors of thier troubled assets?

Does banana chair the road sink?
Impossible to answer, yes?

As is your question. What asset is there for the government to relieve a student debtor of?

What is the physical asset, security, good or service that can be stored, liquidated or transferred?

 

[Heist]

Then business loans should be free, if you opt out if college and decide to start a business.

Who is providing the capital for all these free private business loans?

 

[Famous1]

No zero interest for TARP. Low interest though. Rightful so. There were trillions in assets and collateral backing the loans. Physical assets and receivables that could liquidated if a default occurred.

What asset or collateral is backing a student loan? It’s unsecured debt. Unsecured debt always commands a higher interest rate - as it should.


Also law of large numbers. TARP made ~$16 billion for the government if I recall correctly.


All three programs I mentioned earlier are available to those with student loans.
There are more too. Teach for America pays off part of your loan. Certain and cities will pay off loans if you provide a service they need in their jurisdiction. There are certain hardship programs that will award a portion of debt forgiveness.

But of course the most direct answer: Don’t borrow what you cannot afford to pay back. Calculate the risk reward, benefit and payout.





Does banana chair the road sink?
Impossible to answer, yes?

As is your question. What asset is there for the government to relieve a student debtor of?

What is the physical asset, security, good or service that can be stored, liquidated or transferred?

Assets...lol... such as?
Would you agree to giving a "low" (zero) percent loan to everyone that is saddled with student loan debt? And why the Cape for wall street and the U.S. treasury?

 

[Drayonis]

Who is providing the capital for all these free private business loans?

The banks generate capital in a few ways. Interest and bank fees to start

 

[HeavyArmz]

I haven't read up on the plans for this, so someone may have spelled it out already....but what would happen after the loan debt was erased? Like, I mean lets say in 2020, all of the debt is forgiven...then fast forward to 2022... do the plans assume free college after the debt forgiveness or are 2022, etc students going back to taking loans?

 

[Heist]

The banks generate capital in a few ways. Interest and bank fees to start

Not enough to support giving out free, no interest business loans.
The banks money is not even their money - it’s investors and depositors money.

I don’t think you’d want the banks to start giving your money away interest free to private venture where you in turn see no percentage of the profit or dividends.

You’re not a charity.

 

[Heist]

Assets...lol... such as?
Would you agree to giving a "low" (zero) percent loan to everyone that is saddled with student loan debt? And why the Cape for wall street and the U.S. treasury?

Low or Zero? You’re waffling.

Put it like this, hell no to zero. Zero is essentially causing the investor to lose although having done nothing wrong while letting the debtor win twice.
It is just another case of moral hazard and adverse risk.

Low, low would have to be a rate no less than 100 basis points above the nominal rate of inflation for the previous year.

If one is saddled with debt because they overborrowed or over estimated their earning potential, well, welcome to adult life.

As for “caping for Wall St.” It is not caping, I’m merely explaining how financial markets work.

You seem to understand this but yet then try to drive a narrative that student debt erasure is the same as a TARP loan - which is baffling to me.

 

[totto]

I think it should but only because you have schools called "for profit" that gave poor education for the cost and the government doesn't recognize this so I think it should.

I went to a scam school 20 years ago and got loans and they straight up straighten up in the latter years and my loans aren't discharged even with the proof of the poor education rates.

 

[totto]

anyone know how I can get in on this?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/betsy-devos-suit-for-profit-schools-loans_n_5d128d43e4b0aa375f54e243

 

[hardawayz16]

But by all means let’s follow your plan. You’ll only succeed in:
• Willfully trigger the next Economic panic collapse

• Drying up investor capital as they flight to less risky assets and reserves

• Making student loan interest rates explode 3-4x fold to double digits

• Causing the qualification rate to plummet because qualifying for a student loan will now be extremely difficult

• Investors, domestic and foreign will sue the federal government enmasse, to claw back a government endorsed mass debt wipeout from lenders who had the means to pay their loans but “didn’t want to no mo’.”


Sounds like the brilliant plan of typical ultra-liberal nutters. “We’ll fix it by placating but making things extraordinary worse!”

Thank you for the breakdown. These types of plans are always propped up by liberals with moral arguments without any consideration for the long term problems they will cause.

Also, there is no mention anywhere of how they will address the issues that caused the runaway tuition inflation. No one care about that, because they are only concerned about themselves and their own loans being forgiven.

 

[Famous1]

Low or Zero? You’re waffling.

Put it like this, hell no to zero. Zero is essentially causing the investor to lose although having done nothing wrong while letting the debtor win twice.
It is just another case of moral hazard and adverse risk.

Low, low would have to be a rate no less than 100 basis points above the nominal rate of inflation for the previous year.

If one is saddled with debt because they overborrowed or over estimated their earning potential, well, welcome to adult life.

As for “caping for Wall St.” It is not caping, I’m merely explaining how financial markets work.

You seem to understand this but yet then try to drive a narrative that student debt erasure is the same as a TARP loan - which is baffling to me.

It's the same in principal...don't be baffled.

Thank you for the breakdown. These types of plans are always propped up by liberals with moral arguments without any consideration for the long term problems they will cause.

Also, there is no mention anywhere of how they will address the issues that caused the runaway tuition inflation. No one care about that, because they are only concerned about themselves and their own loans being forgiven.

What caused it?
Our loans have been repaid and we are paying for our children out of pocket.
It's the future that I'm concerned about. Student loan debt is becoming a drag on the economy just like out of control health care costs

 

[Nzinga]

The Gop has shrewdly recast this narrative
So that the reprieve of a big corporation
From taxation is seen as a public good
But the provision of college education
Is seen a personal benefit
In fact the opposite is true.

 

[Drayonis]

Not enough to support giving out free, no interest business loans.
The banks money is not even their money - it’s investors and depositors money.

I don’t think you’d want the banks to start giving your money away interest free to private venture where you in turn see no percentage of the profit or dividends.

You’re not a charity.

I don't know what gave you the idea that I was for giving out anything free or forgiving established debts.

 

[Amajorfucup]

I’ve already outlined the dire ramifications.

Dire ramifications..

What a drama queen.

 

[Dannyblueyes]

No zero interest for TARP. Low interest though. Rightful so. There were trillions in assets and collateral backing the loans. Physical assets and receivables that could liquidated if a default occurred.

What asset or collateral is backing a student loan? It’s unsecured debt. Unsecured debt always commands a higher interest rate - as it should.


Also law of large numbers. TARP made ~$16 billion for the government if I recall correctly.


All three programs I mentioned earlier are available to those with student loans.
There are more too. Teach for America pays off part of your loan. Certain towns and cities will pay off loans if you provide a service they need in their jurisdiction. There are certain hardship programs that will award a portion of debt forgiveness.

But of course the most direct answer: Don’t borrow what you cannot afford to pay back. Calculate the risk reward, benefit and payout.





Does banana chair the road sink?
Impossible to answer, yes?

As is your question. What asset is there for the government to relieve a student debtor of?

What is the physical asset, security, good or service that can be stored, liquidated or transferred?

Except that the government has been using its own agents (aka guidance counselors) to hammer into students that a college degree is the only key to financial success. They neglected to teach these teenagers proper job or economic forecasting. Most high school graduates don't even understand how compound interest works.

Yet these same teenagers are expected to calculate the risk and reward of a 5 figure college loan? Even though in many cases both the high school and the college flat out lied to them about their chances of success?

IMO student loans issued up to 2019 should be forgiven. From that point on the requirements for getting a student loan should be similar as they are for a business loan, except without the collateral. If, for instance, they want to be an architect they should prove to the lender's satisfaction that

1) There is a demand for architects in the community they plan on living in after graduation
2) The firms they plan to work for are solvent and have a history of hiring graduates from the school and program they are hoping to attend
3) The graduate's starting salary will likely be high enough to cover living expenses and loan repayments
4) The applicant has first applied for all possible grants and scholarships to defray tuition costs
5) The school applied to is the most cost effective route to achieving their employment goals. If it isn't the applicant should be able to explain the tangible benefit of a more expensive education
6) If approved, the loan contract must be reviewed by a private lawyer who will verify that the applicant fully understands and accepts the terms of the agreement.

I would also add that dropping out of school or changing majors would be considered an automatic default unless the applicant can prove undue hardship.

 

[totto]

I filed today, I'm trying to get mine cancelled...

 

[Amajorfucup]

I filed today, I'm trying to get mine cancelled...

Filed what exactly?

 

[ORIGINAL NATION]

When Cliven Bundy did not pay the government if I had a grant I was suppose to pay back I would not have paid it back if they can get away with not paying.

 

[blackman80]

Please do!!..Me and alot of people in the US need it to be cancelled!!..

 

[totto]

Filed what exactly?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/betsy-devos-suit-for-profit-schools-loans_n_5d128d43e4b0aa375f54e243

Unfortunately I went to a for profit school.

 

[Heist]

Dire ramifications..

What a drama queen.

When a government endorses a wholesale default of private debt for no legitimate reason totaling in the hundreds of billions, investors leave your markets, the markets the capital markets dry up, interest rates on borrowing skyrocket and of course, foreign investors don’t trust your government or market any longer.

 

[Amajorfucup]

When a government endorses a wholesale default of private debt for no legitimate reason totaling in the hundreds of billions, investors leave your markets, the markets the capital markets dry up, interest rates on borrowing skyrocket and of course, foreign investors don’t trust your government or market any longer.

What wholesale default are you talking about? Over 90% of student debt is owned by DOE.. The less than 9% private debt would be PAID by the government and the remainder would be offset and accounted for in the form of a tax. Its essentially an assignment of a sub 1.5 trillion debt.

Trump tax cuts cost the economy More than 2 trillion.. And you didnt seem to blink an eye at that.

Your entire doom and gloom scenario is largely nonsense my man... and this coming from someone who thinks the entire idea of total loan forgiveness is ridiculous.

 

[Heist]

What wholesale default are you talking about? Over 90% of student debt is owned by DOE..

Sallie-Mae is the biggest student lender in America. Sallie-Mae, although having a close relationship with the DOE, is not a government agency. No more than the Federal Reserve is a government agency. Both are PRIVATE BANKS.

So, your claim that 90% of student loan debt is owned by the DOE hardly rings true.

The more you write, the more it’s apparent you don’t understand the mechanics of financial markets.

A student loan may have been originated by one institution, but the paper is owned by another firm, the guaranteed on the loan is under yet another institution and it’s very possible the loan package is service by another agency.

And when you have a direct government loan, guess who’s backstopping the loan? The Easter Bunny? Unicorns? Magic Pixies?

No, the loans are back by government BONDS. When trillions go into default, the government cannot make the coupon rate payments on the bonds and the investor gets left with worthless paper.

Would you buy any more bonds if you knew the default rate is >50%? Rhetorical question. I know you won’t - so why would you expect other investors to do the same? Not without attaching an stratospheric interest rate to account for the risk.

would be PAID by the government
and the remainder would be offset and accounted for in the form of a tax. Its essentially an assignment of a sub 1.5 trillion debt.

It always surprises when people will say “the government will pay for it”.
Over $1 trillion in debt being defaulted on-I cannot begin to imagine how much taxes will go up to to recover the outflow, or, they’ll just issue bonds like toilet paper which is simply just going to yield overly taxing this and future generations.


But why should EVERY American be made to bear someone who flippant feels like defaulting on their loans because they don’t feel like paying it back anymore?

No one has deliver a cogent and viable explanation for this.

Trump tax cuts cost the economy More than 2 trillion.. And you didnt seem to blink an eye at that.

Partial story - Trump’s tax cuts were co-aligned with a net reduction in government spending totalling over $1.9 Trillion.

However, actual spending levels are controlled by Congress. Guess who controls Congress?

So while the President said I’m cutting taxes and here’s the offsetting budget cuts, Dems kept right on spending, thus creating ... well what happens when you spend more than you make?

Your entire doom and gloom scenario is largely nonsense my man... and this coming from someone who thinks the entire idea of total loan forgiveness is ridiculous.

We shall see. I still think it’s a recipe for a cascading series of unintended consequences.

 

[Rembrandt Brown]

Good video:

 

[Amajorfucup]

Sallie-Mae is the biggest student lender in America. Sallie-Mae, although having a close relationship with the DOE, is not a government agency. No more than the Federal Reserve is a government agency. Both are PRIVATE BANKS.

So, your claim that 90% of student loan debt is owned by the DOE hardly rings true..

Would you feel better had i said over 90% of student debt was owned OR backed and guaranteed by the federal government? Bottomline remains the same.

The more you write, the more it’s apparent you don’t understand the mechanics of financial markets.

Hilarious coming from the guy who doesnt understand what a fucking default is. And who insists on categorizing proposed government backed, taxpayer paid forgiveness as such. STFU.

And when you have a direct government loan, guess who’s backstopping the loan? The Easter Bunny? Unicorns? Magic Pixies?

No, the loans are back by government BONDS. When trillions go into default, the government cannot make the coupon rate payments on the bonds and the investor gets left with worthless paper.

Would you buy any more bonds if you knew the default rate is >50%? Rhetorical question. I know you won’t - so why would you expect other investors to do the same? Not without attaching an stratospheric interest rate to account for the risk.

This is immaterial word soup bullshit.. Guess who foots the loans and provides the initial capital!?? The easter bunny?? No, .... Taxpayers! And stop force feeding the word "default" you clown. Its a term of art... No one is proposing to send loans into default. The cost and burden will be shifted in the form transactions and tax hikes (in theory)..

And again i ask, where was all this doom and gloom bullshit during Trumps 2 trillion tax break, paying for the never ending war in iraq, and the bailouts for auto and banking industry..

It always surprises when people will say “the government will pay for it”.
Over $1 trillion in debt being defaulted on-I cannot begin to imagine how much taxes will go up to to recover the outflow, or, they’ll just issue bonds like toilet paper which is simply just going to yield overly taxing this and future generations.

Why would it surprise you? Thats kinda how this capitalistic democracy thing works.. And you dont have to "imagine" the mechanisms if you go read their proposals and actually see how they theorize paying for the programs.

We shall see. I still think it’s a recipe for a cascading series of unintended consequences.

Yea.. the sky is falling.

 

[Rembrandt Brown]

 

[Rembrandt Brown]

Now they want to cancel student debt after i paid my debt off