** The HBO Series "The Wire" Question & Answer Thread **

[largebillsonlyplease]

stringer bell isn't stupid, just doesn't know the business rules of the game, which is why he is taking econ101 at community college.

that apple analogy is a false dichotomy.

the business rules of the game

that college class didn't help him in the drug game at all that shit got him killed trying to bring that shit in.

there will always be a disconnect between the two worlds because in the business world you fuck up you lose your job try and start again

as sringer learned you fuck up you lose your LIFE.

the only people that made it played the shit straight up.

Stringer playing all those games got murdered

and Joe trying to be Mr im smarter than everyone ima bring everyone together oh and cause marlo is so dangerous ima school him so that he could go ahead and be under my wing forever got his ass lit up and murdered AFTER he shared all of the game with marlo

comical shit.

 

[cranrab]

but in that game he just gave away way too much and got hustled way too easily

you hateful fuck.

those statements are just more proof of how shrewd and calculating stringer bell was when it came to handling his. or, i mean, avon's.

what did Avon tell him, he was playing at too many away games or some shit

why you pick just the quote that makes stringer look bad? why you don't quote the whole thing?

"not hard enough for this right here. and maybe not smart enough for them out there. no offense, i don't think you ever were." - avon barksdale

those words from the mouth of the character that knew stringer bell the longest. bitch.

hell Marlo only rose to power because of Stringers failures

you hating bitch.

you're just mad because stringer bell was so innovative that he was going to usher in a new era of peaceful illegal drug dealing. nobody in the history of the world had ever done that, but stringer bell could.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

quickly BGOL members, run out and purchase your copy today!

if you're seen in public with it, someone is bound to attribute intelligence to you!

order now!

Exactly

He was intelligent


The problem is stringer thought he was smarter than what he really was....

He was green but that ego didn't let him admit it.

The clay davis shit?

Avon went to 1 walk through when he first got home, the guy was explaining the shit to him...and Avon got real with the dude... saying all I'm hearing is how you haven't done your work and you keep digging in my pockets...

Stringer tried to say oh that's not how it works here and all of that shit but Avon saw through that shit it wasn't worth it to him.

Like i said his ego wouldn't let him concede
He lost how much money before he ever brought it to Levy? He thought he was so smart and knew the game and knew how the game was played cause he was taking classes at the cc and what did Levy do when he showed him? He laughed...then ran down every part of the game Clay ran on him, and then laughed at him again and then told him "I wish you would have run this by me sooner"

Why would he do that Levy? Stringer already knew it all!

 

[cranrab]

Stringer tried to say oh that's not how it works here and all of that shit but Avon saw through that shit it wasn't worth it to him.

that was stringer bell playing fredo corleone to avon's michael corleone.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

that was stringer bell playing fredo corleone to avon's michael corleone.

Stinger is charismatic I get that
And he embodies what almost every dude that doesn't sell drugs says when asked or pondering on doing it.

"I'd do it for a while, and then flip property and businesses and then get out of the game before the police even know who i am"

You can't get to the level he was on and then just leave,especially not the way he was going about doing it trying to convince Avon to do so too....

Remember on the rooftop their last convo it was said string wanted to open a store, and Avon was a wild terrorist?

String got caught up, he could've and should've done what Cutty did...

Avon I need this money to do this and this...and from jump was just about business and go for it like that...

you can't Dabble in the drug game on that level

You gotta be in it, and he learned that the hard way.

the only way it works out perfectly for you is by pure dumb luck.

they had marlo cold... COLD and because of Mcnulty's fuck up he was freed

he STARTED to do the right thing by selling the connect and all that shit but ended up back on the corners cause that's what he is built for.

He was doing the shit String was dreaming about doing and didn't want it
and the only reason he had it was because of pure luck.

 

[cranrab]

that college class didn't help him in the drug game at all that shit got him killed trying to bring that shit in.

it wasn't merely stringer bell's attempt to apply book learning to manage avon barksdale's illegal narcotics operation that doomed him. but it was hilarious to watch him front to those he considered his underlings, when in reality his knowledge was inferior to their own.

the examples are numerous and an endless source of amusement: robert's rules in the meeting, elastic v. inelastic product, and my favorite of all time - the worldcom example.



i always felt that this was a PRIME example of how the writers mocked the stringer bell character, but i'm sure it flew over the heads of much of the viewership. maybe too young to recall the events of a decade ago?

Another major factor driving this fraud was Bernie Ebbers' very apparent desire to build and protect his personal financial condition.

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/45542.html

stringer bell would have done himself a favor if he had taken the time and effort to learn about what happened with worldcom instead of name dropping.

 

[cranrab]

String got caught up, he could've and should've done what Cutty did.

dennis wise's story line was about redemption and the struggle it took to become a man in society. stringer bell did not have the heart, fortitude or courage of dennis wise.

He was doing the shit String was dreaming about doing and didn't want it

now that most of us have enjoyed the special features commentaries on the DVD set, we've seen this quote repeated and paraphrased ad nauseum.

the distinction is that marlo stanfield had the heart and the willingness to commit acts that neither the cowardly prop joe nor punk stringer bell could ever stomach.

additionally, marlo stanfield wasn't "doing" what stringer bell dreamed of, marlo stanfield "had" what stringer bell dreamed of. marlo stanfield didn't have fake grandiose visions of being someone that he wasn't.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

dennis wise's story line was about redemption and the struggle it took to become a man in society. stringer bell did not have the heart, fortitude or courage of dennis wise.



now that most of us have enjoyed the special features commentaries on the DVD set, we've seen this quote repeated and paraphrased ad nauseum.

the distinction is that marlo stanfield had the heart and the willingness to commit acts that neither the cowardly prop joe nor punk stringer bell could ever stomach.

additionally, marlo stanfield wasn't "doing" what stringer bell dreamed of, marlo stanfield "had" what stringer bell dreamed of. marlo stanfield didn't have fake grandiose visions of being someone that he wasn't.

Which speaks to my point of him going back to the corners because thats what he was built to do.

He had/doing same thing to me. He didn't want it ultimately that's what I took from it because its true. He had valued some of the same things that Avon did, mainly his name.

And it also speaks to my point of calling it luck, because that's what it was. He lucked into the situation, Stringer tried to plan for some shit that couldn't happen any other way than that.

Stringer was great in the sense that it showed all the people that thought they could do it, and get out without any consequences and just make money what time it really was for all of that bs

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Any thoughts on my Marlo the genius post?

We know he was a new cutthroat breed of dealer we respect his aggressiveness and his ruthless nature but we don't ever really put rhyme to reason with him i don't think.

Many times it just goes, oh marlo will kill you, or get chris and snoop to do it, no strategies behind anything loose cannon type of thing... when im finding it was way more than that

 

[cranrab]

He had/doing same thing to me.

it's a worthy distinction to make, IMO. they both (marlo stanfield and stringer bell) acquired assets, but by very different means.

marlo stanfield's methods proved ultimately (albeit fleetingly) successful and he was wise (despite his years) enough to avoid the siren song of levy and his co-horts.

stringer bell's methods were ill conceived, poorly executed, and a miserable failure. unlike marlo stanfield, stringer bell did not have the requisite intelligence (of even an "independent" kid) to reject the shiny lure of levy and his co-horts.

He didn't want it ultimately that's what I took from it because its true. He had valued some of the same things that Avon did, mainly his name.

to me, that is a racist slight on avon barksdale and marlo stanfield. in an effort to portray these characters as beasts, avon barksdale and marlo stanfield are regularly dismissed as nothing more than opportunistic street thugs. as opposed to the "scholarly" and "civilized" stringer bell.



there's just one HUGE problem with that racist view. it was avon barksdale and marlo stanfield (the supposed uneducated thugs) who were bright enough to openly recognize (and wholly reject) game: clay davis, prop joe, levy and co-horts.

stringer bell fans have a tough time swallowing that pill.

And it also speaks to my point of calling it luck, because that's what it was. He lucked into the situation, Stringer tried to plan for some shit that couldn't happen any other way than that.

building and maintaining an illegal narcotics operation requires a lot of discipline, hard work and some luck.

for example, look at how perilous and damaging the penchant for women was for avon's organization: deirdre, keesha, shardene. marlo stanfield sniffed out devonne in time.

any lack of discipline (including seeking out some strange) is amplified when running an illegal operation. those weaknesses are often the best targets.

 

[cranrab]

Any thoughts on my Marlo the genius post?

i don't think it's a fair claim to refer to marlo stanfield as a genius.

marlo stanfield was hungry, had no regard for the lives of others, a willing work force, and a blueprint for success pieced together from years of earners that came before him.

the closest thing to genius i would say marlo stanfield has was his temperament. marlo's decision to retreat from the corners during the "war" for example, was prudent.

 

[Djmarkxr7]

I STILL stand by what I said, Stringer took theblame for the money but once he burned it up that ended that problem, the one who fucked up was Little Man, Avon even said so,"When he saw the bitch in the car he should've changed it up, we could get Orlando anytime!"

Wee-bay took care of Little Man and Sorvino turned himself in.

Did Stringer go to jail for this?!?

No, when he had Bodie kill Wallace that kept him out of jail, whem he had D killed he insured his not going to jail.

Take a look back @ that Cheese/Prop Joe convo, Joe points out that he WILL NOT start anything with Brother, but then says "I know someone who will, but he won't take any money for it, he then picks up the phone and makes a call...

We next see him with Butchie, discussing the matter, saying that "Stringer contacted ME!"

Much the same way he lied to Marlo about the card game (remember, he set it up with Omar) he lied to Butchie as well, that's how Prop Joe did things, both he and Stringer got offed in the game because they BOTH were trying to apply Robert's Rules to the g

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

it's a worthy distinction to make, IMO. they both (marlo stanfield and stringer bell) acquired assets, but by very different means.

marlo stanfield's methods proved ultimately (albeit fleetingly) successful and he was wise (despite his years) enough to avoid the siren song of levy and his co-horts.

stringer bell's methods were ill conceived, poorly executed, and a miserable failure. unlike marlo stanfield, stringer bell did not have the requisite intelligence (of even an "independent" kid) to reject the shiny lure of levy and his co-horts.

The point is he had, and was doing the thing that Stringer wanted and was dreaming about. It doesn't mean that he went about it the same way, we know he didn't and it doesn't mean he necessarily wanted the same things, we know he didn't.

to me, that is a racist slight on avon barksdale and marlo stanfield. in an effort to portray these characters as beasts, avon barksdale and marlo stanfield are regularly dismissed as nothing more than opportunistic street thugs. as opposed to the "scholarly" and "civilized" stringer bell.

I don't get how you can get that from the importance of their name... I don't see it as portraying them as beasts how did you come to that conclusion? The name means respect, loyalty, your word, what you stand for, and who you are as a man. What does that have to do with being a thug or a beast? I use the name as a similarity because there were things Marlo would do that Avon wouldn't most in regard to the disposal of underlings and other things of that nature. And i mentioned those two without Stringer in mind.

there's just one HUGE problem with that racist view. it was avon barksdale and marlo stanfield (the supposed uneducated thugs) who were bright enough to openly recognize (and wholly reject) game: clay davis, prop joe, levy and co-horts.

see comment above

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

i don't think it's a fair claim to refer to marlo stanfield as a genius.

marlo stanfield was hungry, had no regard for the lives of others, a willing work force, and a blueprint for success pieced together from years of earners that came before him.

the closest thing to genius i would say marlo stanfield has was his temperament. marlo's decision to retreat from the corners during the "war" for example, was prudent.

His temperament allowed him to do everything he did. I consider him way smarter than people end to give him credit for. they only point to the muscle but don't point to everything else he did for his crew as well as how he played the game itself.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I STILL stand by what I said, Stringer took theblame for the money but once he burned it up that ended that problem, the one who fucked up was Little Man, Avon even said so,"When he saw the bitch in the car he should've changed it up, we could get Orlando anytime!"

Wee-bay took care of Little Man and Sorvino turned himself in.

No, that makes no sense. The whole thing wouldn't have went down without his OK.
Lil man wouldn't have been in a position to fuck up if Stringer didn't give the go ahead...

they came down harder on the entire crew because of the mess up that stringer ok'd into action...


like if they brought that shit to Avon they might have gotten caught at the end of the season but the whole Orlando Kima thing wouldn't have ever happened... ever. That was a colossal fuck up

 

[cranrab]

him going back to the corners because thats what he was built to do.

i would never presume to cap the potential of a young character (see dennis wise) by alleging inherent qualities ("built to do" something). this again, contributes to the racist approach in how people (BGOL?) differentiate between "animalistic" marlo stanfield and "civilized" stringer bell.

admiral kirk didn't want to be a desk jockey, he wanted to command the starship enterprise.

marlo stanfield didn't want to wear suits or drink tea with his pinky finger sticking out, he wanted to run shit.

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Any thoughts on my Marlo the genius post?

We know he was a new cutthroat breed of dealer we respect his aggressiveness and his ruthless nature but we don't ever really put rhyme to reason with him i don't think.

Many times it just goes, oh marlo will kill you, or get chris and snoop to do it, no strategies behind anything loose cannon type of thing... when im finding it was way more than that

Marlo was a psychopath.

You'd be surprised @ how many of our decisions are influenced by emotion, Marlo had none, that's a HUGE part of why he was so good @ the game.

Stringer's problem was that he was book smart, Avon on the other hand was people smart, it's why they cimplemented each other so well, and in the game you HAVE to be people smart, which is why Avon was where he was!

@ cranrab, everyone Fredo associated with dissed him, despite his name, because he was stupid, EVERYONE gave Stringer respect, from Prop Joe to Omar NOBODY questioned Stringer, in the drug game if you're soft you get dissed, just look @ Ziggy!

Stringer's stupidity did not rear its ugly head until Season 2, and further, the demise of the Barksdale organization was due to their NOT working together as they had in the past, and to the new knuckleheads (Shamrock) NOT following orders that Stringer laid out!

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

i would never presume to cap the potential of a young character (see dennis wise) by alleging inherent qualities ("built to do" something). this again, contributes to the racist approach in how people (BGOL?) differentiate between "animalistic" marlo stanfield and "civilized" stringer bell.

admiral kirk didn't want to be a desk jockey, he wanted to command the starship enterprise.

marlo stanfield didn't want to wear suits or drink tea with his pinky finger sticking out, he wanted to run shit.

what the hell are you talking about

you're the only one bringing animalistic talk into this. this isn't how i view him. i view him and built to run the corners and be in the game. how is that racist? this is what i think he wants to do and wants to be and he's good at it. who said anything about stringer being civilized? now you're just going at the wrong person with this one lol.

and again none of this has to do with stringer, i don't compare every character to stringer because to me stringer wasn't important enough to be a benchmark for comparison.

you see i compared marlo to avon because i think they're on the same level

stringer is below them in my book down there with prop joe.

dennis wise used to be for it, but he ended up being built to do something else and he did it.

you keep throwing thug and scholarly around at me and i don't understand why you're even throwing that into the mix when i have mentioned on more than 1 occasion how smart i felt marlo was and how much credit i think he deserves but doesn't get

 

[Djmarkxr7]

you hateful fuck.

those statements are just more proof of how shrewd and calculating stringer bell was when it came to handling his. or, i mean, avon's.



why you pick just the quote that makes stringer look bad? why you don't quote the whole thing?

"not hard enough for this right here. and maybe not smart enough for them out there. no offense, i don't think you ever were." - avon barksdale

those words from the mouth of the character that knew stringer bell the longest. bitch.



you hating bitch.

you're just mad because stringer bell was so innovative that he was going to usher in a new era of peaceful illegal drug dealing. nobody in the history of the world had ever done that, but stringer bell could.

While this statement is meaningful, I feel that YOU are giving it too much weight, remember that they were fighting @ the time, it's the same as a man's wife saying, "You can't fuck Mr. Small Dick!", while the statement may be true, wtf did you keep the person around the whole time?!?

Apparently they were doing enough right to keep around, and if dude was that stupid Avon would've removed him from his clear #2 position.

 

[cranrab]

I don't get how you can get that from the importance of their name... I don't see it as portraying them as beasts how did you come to that conclusion?

on BGOL and elsewhere, avon barksdale and marlo stanfield are lumped together (and dismissed) as the violent street hustler thug character. furthermore, avon barksdale and marlo stanfield are juxtaposed against the false standard of the new age stringer bell.

in pointing out that avon barksdale and marlo stanfield were warring over something ultimately inconsequential (their name, or infamy) it instantly diminishes and excludes the additional motives for their criminal actions: providing economic stewardship for others, obtaining economic independence, fiscal security.

so what you are left with is a filtered view of avon barksdale and marlo stanfield compared with the assumedly "refined" image of stringer bell, who aspires to conduct criminal conspiracies with the rules of british parliament, and may (or may not) read scottish economists. GTFOH! (not you personnally, but that whole racist take in general)

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

on BGOL and elsewhere, avon barksdale and marlo stanfield are lumped together (and dismissed) as the violent street hustler thug character. furthermore, avon barksdale and marlo stanfield are juxtaposed against the false standard of the new age stringer bell.

in pointing out that avon barksdale and marlo stanfield were warring over something ultimately inconsequential (their name, or infamy) it instantly diminishes and excludes the additional motives for their criminal actions: providing economic stewardship for others, obtaining economic independence, fiscal security.

so what you are left with is a filtered view of avon barksdale and marlo stanfield compared with the assumedly "refined" image of stringer bell, who aspires to conduct criminal conspiracies with the rules of british parliament, and may (or may not) read scottish economists. GTFOH! (not you personnally, but that whole racist take in general)

yea but when i carry my meaning behind it i thought in response to me it could be carried further than this sentiment strictly because of the fact you know my intent behind my words.

ive never dismissed them, and they were similar in the way they played the game, most of all the importance of their name.. which to me is the same as a corporation putting importance on their brand....

they needed their name (brand) to represent itself how they wanted it to be represented and corporations make decisions and do these types of things every day.

that's why i felt it was important to note how they understood the importance of brand

while stringer who was taking cc economic courses didn't really even grasp what he was learning because otherwise he wouldn't have dismissed the fight as "corner bullshit" when it was way more

the shit he was thinking made less business sense than the things that they were thinking and building their empire on.

 

[cranrab]

what the hell are you talking about

you're the only one bringing animalistic talk into this. this isn't how i view him. i view him and built to run the corners and be in the game. how is that racist? this is what i think he wants to do and wants to be and he's good at it. who said anything about stringer being civilized? now you're just going at the wrong person with this one lol.

and again none of this has to do with stringer, i don't compare every character to stringer because to me stringer wasn't important enough to be a benchmark for comparison.

you see i compared marlo to avon because i think they're on the same level

stringer is below them in my book down there with prop joe.

dennis wise used to be for it, but he ended up being built to do something else and he did it.

you keep throwing thug and scholarly around at me and i don't understand why you're even throwing that into the mix when i have mentioned on more than 1 occasion how smart i felt marlo was and how much credit i think he deserves but doesn't get

see my reply.

i'm not going at anyone (including you). i'm speaking directly on the characters as constructs and how people are choosing to perceive them.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

see my reply.

i'm not going at anyone (including you). i'm speaking directly on the characters as constructs and how people are choosing to perceive them.

yea but when i debate or discuss with you, disclaimer would be more appropriate because im responding to you to get an understanding from you

when you reach out into other notions not dealing with me, that's fine too but until noted i always think that its directed directly to me right or wrong lol

 

[cranrab]

while the statement may be true, wtf did you keep the person around the whole time?

if the statement is true, then i don't care about anything else.

we've addressed this before. avon barksdale was loyal to a fault where his incredibly incompetent childhood friend was concerned. we saw this when he pleaded with brother mouzone to spare his life. avon let sentiment where his childhood friend was concerned cloud his judgement. even when avon knew that stringer bell was just dead weight (no pun intended) he didn't officially remove stringer, he just promoted slim charles.

Apparently they were doing enough right to keep around, and if dude was that stupid Avon would've removed him from his clear #2 position.

more of your ego-centric speculation.

why didn't prop joe remove drac and cheese?

same shit. no mystery.

 

[Count23]

threads like these serve as a reminder as to how epic of a show the wire is

 

[keone]

threads like these serve as a reminder as to how epic of a show the wire is

please wackest show ever

 

[moblack]

show been off for years and ya'll still arguing over it

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

show been off for years and ya'll still arguing over it

hamlet was written how long ago?

 

[Count23]

please wackest show ever

troll much?

 

[Count23]

show been off for years and ya'll still arguing over it

hamlet was written how long ago?

sheeeiiit, what about homer's plays (helen of troy)?

 

[Djmarkxr7]

No, that makes no sense. The whole thing wouldn't have went down without his OK.
Lil man wouldn't have been in a position to fuck up if Stringer didn't give the go ahead...

they came down harder on the entire crew because of the mess up that stringer ok'd into action...


like if they brought that shit to Avon they might have gotten caught at the end of the season but the whole Orlando Kima thing wouldn't have ever happened... ever. That was a colossal fuck up

No bro, NOTHING happened in Season 1 w/o Avon's approval, when he and Stringer met @ the bar he already knew about the set-up, he DIDN'T know about the money, which is why Stringer took the blame, ALL of the moves the police made from that shooting was with info THEY ALREADY HAD, to show "dope on the table".

 

[ViCiouS]

yea but when i carry my meaning behind it i thought in response to me it could be carried further than this sentiment strictly because of the fact you know my intent behind my words.

ive never dismissed them, and they were similar in the way they played the game, most of all the importance of their name.. which to me is the same as a corporation putting importance on their brand....

they needed their name (brand) to represent itself how they wanted it to be represented and corporations make decisions and do these types of things every day.

that's why i felt it was important to note how they understood the importance of brand

while stringer who was taking cc economic courses didn't really even grasp what he was learning because otherwise he wouldn't have dismissed the fight as "corner bullshit" when it was way more

the shit he was thinking made less business sense than the things that they were thinking and building their empire on.

while Stringer didn't completly understand what he was learning in business school... he wasn't incompetitent - Avon was fighting to maintain a brand and presence in a market Stringer wanted to leave behind... Alot of corporates make the same mistake Stringer did, unfortunatly it is very hard to rebrand yourself in a new sector.
Most companies create spinoffs or subsidiaries now. But they usually do this only when the market is stable. Stringer couldn't "read" the market conditions accurately

Stringer wanted to become the street banker, and real estate developer, like many hustlers have done in the past.

 

[alexw]

Any thoughts on my Marlo the genius post?

We know he was a new cutthroat breed of dealer we respect his aggressiveness and his ruthless nature but we don't ever really put rhyme to reason with him i don't think.

Many times it just goes, oh marlo will kill you, or get chris and snoop to do it, no strategies behind anything loose cannon type of thing... when im finding it was way more than that

See I dont think Marlo was a genius

Marlo was extremely lucky and his ruthlessness brought fear

but he lost his battles to Omar

and he was extremely lucky when slim charles didnt get that call

but luck runs out

if the show wouldve continued, Marlo dies quickly

hell he couldnt adjust to life without the streets

 

[alexw]

hamlet was written how long ago?

excellent

 

[Djmarkxr7]

if the statement is true, then i don't care about anything else.

we've addressed this before. avon barksdale was loyal to a fault where his incredibly incompetent childhood friend was concerned. we saw this when he pleaded with brother mouzone to spare his life. avon let sentiment where his childhood friend was concerned cloud his judgement. even when avon knew that stringer bell was just dead weight (no pun intended) he didn't officially remove stringer, he just promoted slim charles.

So exactly why did he demote his own nephew to the low-rises after his f'up but kept another f'up as you say as the #2 in his organization?

more of your ego-centric speculation.

why didn't prop joe remove drac and cheese?

same shit. no mystery.

You seem to dismiss A LOT of what we saw from Season 1, the fact that no one spoke directly to Avon, EVERYTHING went thru Stringer, and this was BEFORE the attempt on Avon by Omar.

And what show were you watching to equate Cheese being to Prop Joe what Stringer was to Avon, Cheese neither advised Prop Joe nor made any decisions, Chris didn.t either with Marlo