which is why i think is was a set upthe biggest fuck up was how he found out where she was...
he clearly said dont tell me where she is going then comes back 2 hrs later ...."where is Iris ? " "oh she`s on Earth 2 "..really...?
The Official Flash Thread Discussion
- Thread starter ansatsusha_gouki
- Start date
DEAN BUSCHER /THE CW
Warning: This story contains spoilers from Tuesday’s episode ofThe Flash. Read at your own risk!
After months of trying to prevent the inevitable, Iris West apparently died during Tuesday’s episode of The Flash, stabbed through the back by Savitar — or was she?
Earlier in the hour, Barry Allen (Grant Gustin) pretended to be Lyla Michaels (Audrey Marie Anderson) by using the light refraction technology that HR Wells (Tom Cavanagh) brought over from his Earth. The tech hadn’t been seen on the show in a while, but its use was a good reminder that it does exist — and could be a hint as to what really happened in the ultimate showdown with Savitar.
Roll with us here for a second: What if HR somehow traded places with Iris (Candice Patton) before her death? Unlike what’s happened in the glimpse of the future we’ve revisited many times over the season, Savitar left Iris’ side to ostensibly avoid the Speed Bazooka. What if, during that time, HR switched places with Iris and used the technology to take her place?
Here’s why it could be possible: In Barry’s first glimpse of the future, he was alone on Infantino Street. But when Cisco (Carlos Valdes) vibed him to the future in the midseason premiere, Barry spotted HR with a futuristic gun.
However, during the showdown, HR was nowhere to be seen. Where was he? Also suspect: Moments prior, HR revered Savitar’s broken talon back at S.T.A.R. Labs. Maybe that’s when he made the ultimate decision. For now, this is just a theory, but we’ll find out what really happened in next week’s season finale. Until then, sound off in the comments
Roll with us here for a second: What if HR somehow traded places with Iris (Candice Patton) before her death? Unlike what’s happened in the glimpse of the future we’ve revisited many times over the season, Savitar left Iris’ side to ostensibly avoid the Speed Bazooka. What if, during that time, HR switched places with Iris and used the technology to take her place?
Here’s why it could be possible: In Barry’s first glimpse of the future, he was alone on Infantino Street. But when Cisco (Carlos Valdes) vibed him to the future in the midseason premiere, Barry spotted HR with a futuristic gun.
However, during the showdown, HR was nowhere to be seen. Where was he? Also suspect: Moments prior, HR revered Savitar’s broken talon back at S.T.A.R. Labs. Maybe that’s when he made the ultimate decision. For now, this is just a theory, but we’ll find out what really happened in next week’s season finale. Until then, sound off in the comments
I'm with everyone,I think it's a setup...I think Iris and HR set the whole thing up.
It makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. HR just wanted to feel useful, and what greater purpose could he serve by giving his life for the team
I try not to think ahead like that. The show is really good and I just let the show come to me. The light reflector Tech is a good theory though. I had forgotten all about it. I can't fucking wait until next week
And where in the hell was Julian this whole time? i think he may play a big part in the finale,presumbly trying to convince Catlin to come back to the good side again
Usually Captain Cold and his voice is a little annoying
But it worked perfectly.
They got a weird chemistry that just works.
But it worked perfectly.
They got a weird chemistry that just works.
Iris is one hell of a good looking woman.
Murder Song...Aurora
That song is raw. If ever looking for a song in the future on any TV show or movie www.tunefind.com
Interesting...
In the commercial for the season finale HR is on roof looking down....
In the commercial for the season finale HR is on roof looking down....
I thought it was Fiest at first...same voice beat cadence.
This was like nerd City. I got my flash and my Animal Planet moment. From what I've researched and not all of what they said about great whites is true. It is true that great whites are warm blooded unlike most sharks, but I didn't find any information to support that we going into stasis from being in temperature lower than 55 degrees.
Still a great show though
Joe's acting>>>>>>>>>>
Aww man. Go put on a clinic with tears in his eyes and it's face was shaking.
That boy's got TALENT!
link i found about this show most of this i agree with
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...ruining-the-flashs-best-moments/#1f8b3791f8b3
Last night's episode of The Flash was brutal, tragic and deeply touching. The death of Iris West was treated with the sort of emotional gravitas a big death like that deserves, which is not always the case in the CW's DC Comics shows.
Unfortunately, the lead-up to this death has been pocked and marred by such a multitude of plot holes it's become harder than ever to suspend disbelief.
Here's a (non-exhaustive) sampling of Season 3's Swiss Cheese narrative:
Plot holes like this are detrimental to a show, and it doesn't matter if it's a show about superheroes. A superhero show still needs to have characters that make sensible decisions and stories that follow an internal logic. Just because there are super powers doesn't mean that all rules go out the window. Plot holes hurt the show by making a moment like Iris's death, which should be incredibly poignant, laughably implausible.
Soft Magic
Fantasy author Brandon Sanderson has written several "laws" of magic. His first law is this: "An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."
I believe this applies equally to TV and movie writing. Without clear rules that audiences can understand, magic becomes a sneaky way for writers to get themselves out of sticky situations. Super powers can be used to simply wave away plot holes. The Speed Force can be used to fill in any sort of gap, and diehard fans will always come to the show's rescue with "It's just a superhero show" or "it's just a zombie show" or what have you. But I disagree.
As Sanderson writes in that same essay, "If we simply let ourselves develop new rules every time our characters are in danger, we will end up creating fiction that is not only unfulfilling and unexciting, but just plain bad."
Indeed.
Only Mostly Dead?
Add to this the fact that death on the CW rarely sticks (even Laurel is back on Arrow as an evil version of herself, and there's dozens of other Earths that Iris lives on) and you get a show with such massive plot holes and low stakes that none of it feels the way it should.
We should be devastated by Iris's death. It was a powerful scene. Sadly, it was a powerful scene mired in a season that's so riddled with issues that I can't take it seriously even though I want to.
I'm sure I'm actually leaving some plot holes out of this summary, but there's enough here to illustrate just how problematic this season has been. It's a shame, too, because The Flash got off to such a great start and has been sliding downhill ever since.
That was a powerful ending to last night's episode. I'm worried about Cisco, too. I'm not sure if Iris will be revived somehow. I'm curious to find out and I'm rooting for the show to make a comeback in Season 4.
As a critic, I'm not the enemy of the show or its fans. I'm a fan, too, but it's my job to point out these flaws and try to help make the shows I write about as strong as they can be. Keep that in mind before you tell me to "just stop watching." That's the last thing any show needs.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...ruining-the-flashs-best-moments/#1f8b3791f8b3
Last night's episode of The Flash was brutal, tragic and deeply touching. The death of Iris West was treated with the sort of emotional gravitas a big death like that deserves, which is not always the case in the CW's DC Comics shows.
Unfortunately, the lead-up to this death has been pocked and marred by such a multitude of plot holes it's become harder than ever to suspend disbelief.
Here's a (non-exhaustive) sampling of Season 3's Swiss Cheese narrative:
- Savitar is a time remnant version of Barry created by Barry in the future to ultimately trap Savitar in the Speed Force. Savitar tells Barry this, so it should be pretty simple for Barry in the future to simply not create time remnants of himself. No more Savitar. Iris is saved.
- The entire premise of this season is that Barry can't change the future to save Iris. But he's been unable to avoid changing the future every time he goes back into the past. The entire "Flashpoint" thing was him changing the future/present by going back and changing the past. Wouldn't it stand to reason that he could find numerous ways to change the future, then, simply by changing the past? Sure, he might screw up the timeline more, but this particular outcome would shift. Basically it makes no sense to say "We can't change the future" and "Every time Barry goes back in time he changes the future" in the same breath, but that's what The Flash wants us to accept.
- Caitlin Snow become Killer Frost because of her powers, but no other meta becomes evil because of their powers and this is never explained, leaving us all to accept it just because. It makes no sense.
- Once they figured out that Barry and Savitar had the same memories, why did they involve Barry on any of the planning? If they'd compartmentalized information they could have kept Iris's location a secret. For instance, why did H.R. and the other team members on Earth 1 even know where Joe was taking Iris on Earth 2?
- Why not reach out to Kara (Supergirl) for help? Or even Oliver Queen?
- How is that Barry can go back in time to get Captain Cold to come back to the future to help with his problem and this doesn't screw with time in huge ways?
- Why aren't Time Wraiths everywhere this season?
- Iris cut off her engagement from Barry even though he was trying to save her life by changing the future and loved her and she loved him and there was never any question that it was a "pity" engagement, even if her impending death spurred his decision. Who acts this way? Characters are constantly acting out of character to further silly plot decisions.
- The Speed Force bazooka was stymied by the Philosopher's Stone which, it so happens, is "calcified" Speed Force because if there's something that needs to be explained, this show just throws Speed Force at it to make it go away. That may be less of a plot hole and more of a deus ex machina. (At least when it's used as Savitar used it last night.)
- Barry never uses his power in fights. He's constantly showing up and talking to the bad guys and getting beat up because of it, even though he's the fastest man alive. He also keeps jumping in front of people to stop attacks from metas like Killer Frost, whose frost attack would be slow as molasses compared to Barry. He could just move people, or take out Frost, or bat the ice out of the air. He's an awfully slow Flash.
- A reader notes that ARGUS would have been the perfect safe-house given that it has tech that mutes a meta's powers. This is less of a plot hole and more of an "Oh that's an obvious solution." Star Labs should borrow the tech and use it on their notoriously lousy security.
Plot holes like this are detrimental to a show, and it doesn't matter if it's a show about superheroes. A superhero show still needs to have characters that make sensible decisions and stories that follow an internal logic. Just because there are super powers doesn't mean that all rules go out the window. Plot holes hurt the show by making a moment like Iris's death, which should be incredibly poignant, laughably implausible.
Soft Magic
Fantasy author Brandon Sanderson has written several "laws" of magic. His first law is this: "An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."
I believe this applies equally to TV and movie writing. Without clear rules that audiences can understand, magic becomes a sneaky way for writers to get themselves out of sticky situations. Super powers can be used to simply wave away plot holes. The Speed Force can be used to fill in any sort of gap, and diehard fans will always come to the show's rescue with "It's just a superhero show" or "it's just a zombie show" or what have you. But I disagree.
As Sanderson writes in that same essay, "If we simply let ourselves develop new rules every time our characters are in danger, we will end up creating fiction that is not only unfulfilling and unexciting, but just plain bad."
Indeed.
Only Mostly Dead?
Add to this the fact that death on the CW rarely sticks (even Laurel is back on Arrow as an evil version of herself, and there's dozens of other Earths that Iris lives on) and you get a show with such massive plot holes and low stakes that none of it feels the way it should.
We should be devastated by Iris's death. It was a powerful scene. Sadly, it was a powerful scene mired in a season that's so riddled with issues that I can't take it seriously even though I want to.
I'm sure I'm actually leaving some plot holes out of this summary, but there's enough here to illustrate just how problematic this season has been. It's a shame, too, because The Flash got off to such a great start and has been sliding downhill ever since.
That was a powerful ending to last night's episode. I'm worried about Cisco, too. I'm not sure if Iris will be revived somehow. I'm curious to find out and I'm rooting for the show to make a comeback in Season 4.
As a critic, I'm not the enemy of the show or its fans. I'm a fan, too, but it's my job to point out these flaws and try to help make the shows I write about as strong as they can be. Keep that in mind before you tell me to "just stop watching." That's the last thing any show needs.
that was funny...the biggest fuck up was how he found out where she was...
he clearly said dont tell me where she is going then comes back 2 hrs later ...."where is Iris ? " "oh she`s on Earth 2 "..really...?
You know once savitar realized the trick he couldve came back and killed iris again it wouldve taken like a minute....
Anyone notice how much weaker savitar was than the first time they met him? He was doing some superspeed teleportation shit where he was taking barry all over the city. Now he just runs like every other speedster.
Anyone notice how much weaker savitar was than the first time they met him? He was doing some superspeed teleportation shit where he was taking barry all over the city. Now he just runs like every other speedster.
you're right. wtf happened to that?
agree. both can never be good at the same time.
Yeah cause arrow dropped the relationship stuff and had a really good villian and all flash did was ramp up the relationship stuff and the only interesting thing about savitar was he might kill iris. Plus we all knew iris wasnt gonna die cause shes the finest girl on the show.