Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?

Who would you taake at quarterback?

  • Tom Brady?

    Votes: 76 58.0%
  • Peyton Manning?

    Votes: 55 42.0%

  • Total voters
    131

El Guapo

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What in the fuck does a pick 6 have to do with Peyton Manning failing time and time again in the playoffs? Do you want me to go by his playoff games slowly one by one with you so you can see? The Colts averaged 27 ppg in those 6 seasons where Peyton failed in the playoffs yet averaged 11 ppg in those playoff defeats.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MannPe00.htm

look for yourself.

The Colts failed in the playoffs. Not Peyton Manning alone. They would have won those playoff losses 11-0 if the defense had prevented the other teams from scoring. Who in the heck looks at a game and says "oh the defense played well, they only allowed so many points, but the offense just didn't score enough to win? :hmm: That's absurd reasoning, unless its a low scoring single digit game (like the one last Monday night). Either the Colts lost as a team, or the defense choked. The only way you can hang a loss on a QB is if that QB is directly responsible for it, i.e. by throwing a pick six.
 

King Lloyd

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Did Peyton Manning play well last postseason? No. His defense, WRs, Clark, and RBs carried his ass to a Super Bowl ring.
 

Blunt

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He also never threw more than 28 tds (before this season), ...

And never more than 14 INTs. Consistent 2-1 TD/INT ratio. Currently the best in NFL history. Never had a need to be a GUNNER, and never had the weapons anyway.

... while manning has had seasons of 33, 29, 49, and 31.

While throwing over 530 passes a year 7 times, to Brady's 1.


Yes, Brady is "consistent", consistently mediocre.

Nothing "mediocre" about a 63% passer with a 93.0 career Passer Rating and a 188-82 TD/INT ratio, to go with an 80% overall Winning Pct., who's never had an off-year. It doesn't get any better than that. Brady has won with consistent, team play, not with GAUDY individual numbers (though he has proven he can do it that way too).

(Brady's lost just 26 games, including playoffs, in 7 years. Less than 4 a year on average. Unheard of.)
 
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FingersXG

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And never more than 14 INTs. Consistent 2-1 TD/INT ratio. Currently the best in NFL history.

oh..Manning's 1.9 to 1 is far below?

Never had a need to be a GUNNER, and never had the weapons anyway.

While throwing over 530 passes a year 7 times, to Brady's 1.

Manning never had the defenses that Brady had either.


Nothing "mediocre" about a 63% passer with a 93.0 career Passer Rating and a 188-82 TD/INT ratio,

Actually its 186-88, while Manning is a 64% passer with a 294-151 td/int ratio

who's never had an off-year.
:confused:18 tds 12 ints in 2001?

Brady has won with consistent, team play, not with GAUDY individual numbers
Hit the nail on the head, Brady has had better overall teams, that's why he has a better winning percentage.

Brady's lost just 26 games, including playoffs, in 7 years. Less than 4 a year on average. Unheard of
I mean, if your coach is stealing the other teams defensive calls, makes it pretty easy to win.
 

Yogi Bear

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Man, that TO vs Moss topic really got me thinking on some other stuff. One of the biggest debates lately has been who is the better quarterback, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning? I personally think Brady. Brady has had average receivers for most of his career and now that he finally has quality players, he is putting up number never seen before. Brady has always been more clutch and is a much better post season player. Manning has great receivers and has been good his whole career as well evidenced by his record breaking numbers. But in my opinion, Brady has always done more with less and has 2 more rings than Manning. I respect Peyton Manning a lot, don't get me wrong. But Brady is the best quarterback of this generation.

They kicked field goals to win their playoff and super bowl games. I will agree that Brady has done more with less but coaching has had alot to do with that. The way they changed the way they run their offense when Brady got in was pure genius. He also had a shut down defense on his side that has shut down the best offenses in the biggest games.

Bottom line is TEAMS win rings. Not the best QB.
 

Yogi Bear

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In the 2001 playoffs, during a blizzard against the Oakland Raiders in the final game at Foxboro Stadium, Vinatieri kicked a 45-yard field goal (that just barely made it over the crossbar) to tie the game 13-13 and send it into overtime. The Patriots then won the game on another field goal of 23 yards by Vinatieri. That 45-yard kick into the wind during a driving snowstorm is regarded as one of the greatest clutch plays (and the greatest kick) in NFL history.

In Super Bowl XXXVI he kicked a 48-yard field goal on the final play to give the New England Patriots their first Super Bowl victory, a 20-17 win over the St. Louis Rams. Two years later, and in an almost identical situation, he kicked a 41-yard field goal with 4 seconds left in Super Bowl XXXVIII to boost the Patriots to another championship (after missing one field goal and having another attempt blocked in the first half). This time, the Patriots defeated the Carolina Panthers, 32-29, making Vinatieri the first player ever to be the deciding factor in two Super Bowl games (Vinatieri kept the balls used on both those kicks).

You edited your post, Blunt

40+ yard field goals is not getting him in safe distances to make the kicks. It is more like we're close enough and there isn't much time, let him kick it. Bray did get him that close.
 

dh86

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They kicked field goals to win their playoff and super bowl games. I will agree that Brady has done more with less but coaching has had alot to do with that. The way they changed the way they run their offense when Brady got in was pure genius. He also had a shut down defense on his side that has shut down the best offenses in the biggest games.

Bottom line is TEAMS win rings. Not the best QB.

Manning supporters are seriously reaching for straws at this point if you are pointing out " Patriots kicked field goals to win super bowls". As if this is rugby and Adam kicked the football up and down the field all game to move the ball on offense. Sure Belichick is the best coach of his era. Peyton Manning got to play his entire career with Harrison. You have to play with the hands you are dealt. Joe Montana was blessed with the best front office and coaching staff in his era. Michael Jordan had the same thing with the Bulls. The New England Patriots are doing something in this salary cap era that is unprecedented. Instead of lying to yourselves trying to discredit them, have some popcorn and enjoy the ride. :)
 

dh86

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oh..Manning's 1.9 to 1 is far below?



Manning never had the defenses that Brady had either.




Actually its 186-88, while Manning is a 64% passer with a 294-151 td/int ratio


:confused:18 tds 12 ints in 2001?


Hit the nail on the head, Brady has had better overall teams, that's why he has a better winning percentage.


I mean, if your coach is stealing the other teams defensive calls, makes it pretty easy to win.

How is 18 tds and 12 int considered an off year, when its his first year as a starter,went 14-3 as a starter ,and won the super bowl???? Are you even reading the bullshit you are writing?
 

dh86

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oh..Manning's 1.9 to 1 is far below?



Manning never had the defenses that Brady had either.




Actually its 186-88, while Manning is a 64% passer with a 294-151 td/int ratio


:confused:18 tds 12 ints in 2001?


Hit the nail on the head, Brady has had better overall teams, that's why he has a better winning percentage.


I mean, if your coach is stealing the other teams defensive calls, makes it pretty easy to win.

A. Again,which playoff game did Peyton play well and the Colts defense let him down?
B.Patriots tape was confiscated in the first quarter of the first game. Colts offensive line coach is known as the best sign stealer in the league. I guess it doesn't make it as easy to win as it seems. But hey, who needs facts when you dig false info out of your ass.
 

Blunt

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40+ yard field goals is not getting him in safe distances to make the kicks. It is more like we're close enough and there isn't much time, let him kick it. Bray did get him that close.

WTF are you talking about?? Brady's clutch last second drives put them into position for those 40-yard field goals. Did you watch the games? God bless Vinatieri for coming through, but he wouldn't have had the opportunity without Brady at the helm, obviously.
 

Blunt

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oh..Manning's 1.9 to 1 is far below?

Who said it was far below? It's just that Brady's 2.3/1 is the best ever, and he's supposedly the "mediocre" QB.

Manning never had the defenses that Brady had either.

I guess that's as good an excuse as any for his choking in the playoffs until last year. Those 4 INTs against the Pats in the '03 Championship Game really weren't his fault. :rolleyes:

Actually its 186-88, while Manning is a 64% passer with a 294-151 td/int ratio.

No, it's 186-82 (an alltime best 2.3/1) and their other lifetime stats (averages) are virtually identical. How can that be if Brady is so "mediocre." Of course, he also is the far SUPERIOR WINNER too at 77% (81-24) regular season and 86% (12-2) Playoffs.

18 tds 12 ints in 2001?

What's wrong with that for a virtual Rookie who played a bit more than 2/3 of the season? There's also the 64% Completion Percentage and something like a 10-game win streak straight through to the Super Bowl. Manning threw 28 (!!) INTs his rookie year and completed just 57% of his passes. Needless to say, he didn't lead the Colts to the Super Bowl.

Hit the nail on the head, Brady has had better overall teams, that's why he has a better winning percentage.

Brady made them "better" overall teams, though the Colts have been highly-rated (if not higher-rated) throughout his tenure.

I mean, if your coach is stealing the other teams defensive calls, makes it pretty easy to win.

Yeah, I guess that's gotta be it. When all else fails ... play the "stealing card" (even if no such thing ever occured).
 
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lac

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Tom Brady is a better qb. He can do more with less talent. The colts in the past couldn't win superbowls because they had to surround Peyton with 1st round talent. Marvin Harrison, Tarik Glenn(before he retired),Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne were all 1st round draft picks. That's why the defense was never good in the past.
Before we had Reggie Wayne they also had receivers like Qadry Ismail, Sean Dawkins and others. But Peyton couldn't do nothing with them.
 

Makkonnen

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Tom Brady is a better qb. He can do more with less talent. The colts in the past couldn't win superbowls because they had to surround Peyton with 1st round talent. Marvin Harrison, Tarik Glenn(before he retired),Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne were all 1st round draft picks. That's why the defense was never good in the past.
Before we had Reggie Wayne they also had receivers like Qadry Ismail, Sean Dawkins and others. But Peyton couldn't do nothing with them.
But Brady won way more games with his team's DEFENSE. The Colts D hasn't had the success over the years that the Pats' D has. I dig Brady's confidence and ability to stick to the game plan but I don't think he's as adept at reading defenses or being the field general as Peyton is.

I still think Brady gets rattled less but he also has way less pressure on him because of the Oline he has and the Defense his team has.
 

MrMotivator

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Tom Brady is a better qb. He can do more with less talent. The colts in the past couldn't win superbowls because they had to surround Peyton with 1st round talent. Marvin Harrison, Tarik Glenn(before he retired),Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne were all 1st round draft picks. That's why the defense was never good in the past.
Before we had Reggie Wayne they also had receivers like Qadry Ismail, Sean Dawkins and others. But Peyton couldn't do nothing with them.

what pipe are you smoking this less talent nonsense is rubbish Brady has an extremely talented offensive line that makes him have all day to stand in the pocket that is the difference maker. Go check the stats this year how many times has he been rushed or sacked the numbers are real low it wasn't until the cowboys game that anybody had ever put any pressure on him all year. Everybody is yapping about the receivers but football is a team sport and Brady benefits from having an amazing line. If you don't think it is a more important factor than having pro bowl receivers then you don't know shit about football.

The other factor for why his receivers aren't pro-bowlers is the fact that he spreads the ball around dinking and dunking it wasn't until he got moss this year that he started airing it out on a consistent basis.
 

MrMotivator

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But Brady won way more games with his team's DEFENSE. The Colts D hasn't had the success over the years that the Pats' D has. I dig Brady's confidence and ability to stick to the game plan but I don't think he's as adept at reading defenses or being the field general as Peyton is.

I still think Brady gets rattled less but he also has way less pressure on him because of the Oline he has and the Defense his team has.

why did it take 87 posts before somebody else had some common sense up in here? :smh:

you don't have to force the ball in there if you know i don't have to win in a shootout, the interceptions come from having to do more. You can take the check down let your defense get a 3 and out and try again when you always have a top 10 defense. Think about that shit for a second when has Brady ever had as bad a defense as Manning? EVER?
Add to the fact that MOST of Brady's game winning drives were always to kick a field goal never to score 7 or more points.


Also the year the colts "got" a defense was the year Manning won a superbowl if you don't think the two are equally important you are either a fucking retard or don't know shit about football.:rolleyes:

football is a team sport the "who got more rings" is a dumb ass argument, don't even bother with the stats crap either. For years manning has had to win shootouts while Brady just had to score 14 points and get in range for 1-2 field goals and that was more than enough. I go with manning simply because of last years divisional game when he came back down 21-3 at the half and commanded the game Brady has never been in that situation before to me that is real pressure.
 

FingersXG

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A. Again,which playoff game did Peyton play well and the Colts defense let him down?

Which playoff game did Brady have to sling the ball to win the game, and the defense didn't keep them in it?

B.Patriots tape was confiscated in the first quarter of the first game.

Oh that's right, when you get caught doing something, that was probably the first time you've done it. :rolleyes:

Colts offensive line coach is known as the best sign stealer in the league. I guess it doesn't make it as easy to win as it seems. But hey, who needs facts when you dig false info out of your ass

Really, and where did you obtain that good information?:rolleyes:
 

FingersXG

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I guess that's as good an excuse as any for his choking in the playoffs until last year. Those 4 INTs against the Pats in the '03 Championship Game really weren't his fault. :rolleyes:

Oh, that's right the Colts defense was so good that Manning was passing because he liked having to throw it that much. :rolleyes:

No, it's 186-82 (an alltime best 2.3/1) and their other lifetime stats (averages) are virtually identical. How can that be if Brady is so "mediocre." Of course, he also is the far SUPERIOR WINNER too at 77% (81-24) regular season and 86% (12-2) Playoffs.

If you're saying Manning's 64% completions is virtually identical to Brady's 63, then the 1.9 to 2.3 is virtually identical as well.

As far as the winning, that goes back to the team concept. (BTW, if Brady is such a winner, how come he didn't even get them into the playoffs in 2002? :confused:)


What's wrong with that for a virtual Rookie who played a bit more than 2/3 of the season? There's also the 64% Completion Percentage and something like a 10-game win streak straight through to the Super Bowl. Manning threw 28 (!!) INTs his rookie year and completed just 57% of his passes. Needless to say, he didn't lead the Colts to the Super Bowl.

15 games is 2/3? :confused:
Manning also threw 26 tds his rookie year; an NFL record, he also has the nfl record most attempts and completions by a rookie QB.


Brady made them "better" overall teams, though the Colts have been highly-rated (if not higher-rated) throughout his tenure.
Brady made them better?

2000 pats:
Bledsoe 3291 yds 59% completions 17 tds 31 ints

2001 pats:
Brady 2843 yds 64% completions 18 tds 12 ints

That's why they went from 5-11 to 11-5?? :confused:

Yeah, I guess that's gotta be it. When all else fails ... play the "stealing card" (even if no such thing ever occured)

Oh, that's right the NFL only fined the team, Belichik, and took away their 1st rd draft pick for an event that never occurred. :rolleyes:
 

dh86

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Which playoff game did Brady have to sling the ball to win the game, and the defense didn't keep them in it?



Oh that's right, when you get caught doing something, that was probably the first time you've done it. :rolleyes:



Really, and where did you obtain that good information?:rolleyes:

A. I appreciate you not answering my question, but in both the super bowl against the Panthers and last years playoff game against the Chargers, Tom Brady had to sling the ball down the field. Half of Peyton's playoff losses were within a touchdown but hey, whos counting here?
B.Maybe.
C.Jimmy Johnson, Fox NFL Sunday Week 2.
 

dh86

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Oh, that's right the Colts defense was so good that Manning was passing because he liked having to throw it that much. :rolleyes:



If you're saying Manning's 64% completions is virtually identical to Brady's 63, then the 1.9 to 2.3 is virtually identical as well.

As far as the winning, that goes back to the team concept. (BTW, if Brady is such a winner, how come he didn't even get them into the playoffs in 2002? :confused:)




15 games is 2/3? :confused:
Manning also threw 26 tds his rookie year; an NFL record, he also has the nfl record most attempts and completions by a rookie QB.



Brady made them better?

2000 pats:
Bledsoe 3291 yds 59% completions 17 tds 31 ints

2001 pats:
Brady 2843 yds 64% completions 18 tds 12 ints

That's why they went from 5-11 to 11-5?? :confused:



Oh, that's right the NFL only fined the team, Belichik, and took away their 1st rd draft pick for an event that never occurred. :rolleyes:

Besides replacing Bledsoe with Brady, what other changes did the New England Patriots make between the 2000 and 2001 seasons? The Colts lost that AFC championship game by 10 with the Colts defense giving up 1 touchdown and Peyton Manning throwing 4 ints constantly giving the Pats great field position. Give the real facts about the games,sir. Great you bring up the 2002 season, yeah he didnt make the playoffs, but he still had a winning record and nearly a third of his career losses were in that one season. The three (soon to be four) championships, the 21 game winning streak (soon to be surpassed), 81-24 career record, 12-2 playoff record,etc tells me Tom Brady is a winner. Tom has now 26 4th quarter comebacks in his career in 7 years. Joe Montana has 31 in 14 seasons. Peyton Manning has nearly half of Brady's total. That is the mark of a winner. This is too easy.
 

dh86

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why did it take 87 posts before somebody else had some common sense up in here? :smh:

you don't have to force the ball in there if you know i don't have to win in a shootout, the interceptions come from having to do more. You can take the check down let your defense get a 3 and out and try again when you always have a top 10 defense. Think about that shit for a second when has Brady ever had as bad a defense as Manning? EVER?
Add to the fact that MOST of Brady's game winning drives were always to kick a field goal never to score 7 or more points.


Also the year the colts "got" a defense was the year Manning won a superbowl if you don't think the two are equally important you are either a fucking retard or don't know shit about football.:rolleyes:

football is a team sport the "who got more rings" is a dumb ass argument, don't even bother with the stats crap either. For years manning has had to win shootouts while Brady just had to score 14 points and get in range for 1-2 field goals and that was more than enough. I go with manning simply because of last years divisional game when he came back down 21-3 at the half and commanded the game Brady has never been in that situation before to me that is real pressure.

They drove for a field goal because the ball games were tied. Are you that fucking stupid? None of Peyton's playoff losses were shootouts. In the one playoff game where the Colts defense was torched, Peyton went 14-31 and 2 ints along with Indy scoring zero points. Maybe im missing a shootout, let me know sir.
 

Makkonnen

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They drove for a field goal because the ball games were tied. Are you that fucking stupid? None of Peyton's playoff losses were shootouts. In the one playoff game where the Colts defense was torched, Peyton went 14-31 and 2 ints along with Indy scoring zero points. Maybe im missing a shootout, let me know sir.
Who was the opponent in the game youre talking about?
NE?
Who was that holding him to 14-31 and 2 int? NE Defense?
 

MrMotivator

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They drove for a field goal because the ball games were tied. Are you that fucking stupid? None of Peyton's playoff losses were shootouts. In the one playoff game where the Colts defense was torched, Peyton went 14-31 and 2 ints along with Indy scoring zero points. Maybe im missing a shootout, let me know sir.

did you know that Manning and Brady play 16 games during the year before the playoffs? Your replys sound like you didn't know that your whole theory seems to rest on a few play off games. :smh:

i'll spell it out for you and try not to insult you or your intelligence

1) Brady has always been in manageable games due to his offensive line and defense period end of discussion. This is very important because it means Brady isn't asked to do too much except manage the game keep getting first downs or drive 40 yards to kick a field goal instead of score TDs to catch up. You know who helps somebody do that??? DEFENSE/SPECIAL TEAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <- the pats are/were in the top 5-10 every year from the day Brady took over for the team.
2) playoff loses should not be the only benchmark for a persons entire career. <- i can't even believe i have to say that shit
3) for christ sake football is a team sport. Meaning both brady and Manning are unstoppable when their offensive line holds and their receivers catch the ball.

you want me to send you a fax or write in braille? :confused::confused::confused:
 

MrMotivator

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Who was the opponent in the game youre talking about?
NE?
Who was that holding him to 14-31 and 2 int? NE Defense?

:lol:naw brady caught those interceptions dude New England's defense is garbage Brady catches passes too and runs the ball :smh:

i saw brady kick two fieldgoals in the superbowl :lol::lol::lol:
 

Makkonnen

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:lol:naw brady caught those interceptions dude New England's defense is garbage Brady catches passes too and runs the ball :smh:

i saw brady kick two fieldgoals in the superbowl :lol::lol::lol:
seriously just swap out brady to the colts and peyton to the pats and think about how well they'd do

I know Brady would win less games and I know Peyton wouldn't

I still think Brady is a great QB. Seriously I hate the pats but I think Brady is a great player. Dude took less money to keep a teammate and mgmt fucked him and he didnt bitch and moan. Him leaving ends that whole empire

dont even mention field goals

man i think every vinitierri miss is on purpose

fuckin vanderjack :smh:

man you know the colts are fucked even worse now that there biggest defensive stopper is gone- Brady could have a picnic in the pocket, cook steaks fuck some supermodels, watch em give birth then throw a 20yd pass to welker(sp?)
 

lac

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what pipe are you smoking this less talent nonsense is rubbish Brady has an extremely talented offensive line that makes him have all day to stand in the pocket that is the difference maker. Go check the stats this year how many times has he been rushed or sacked the numbers are real low it wasn't until the cowboys game that anybody had ever put any pressure on him all year. Everybody is yapping about the receivers but football is a team sport and Brady benefits from having an amazing line. If you don't think it is a more important factor than having pro bowl receivers then you don't know shit about football.

The other factor for why his receivers aren't pro-bowlers is the fact that he spreads the ball around dinking and dunking it wasn't until he got moss this year that he started airing it out on a consistent basis.

You go and check the stats to see how many times the colts offensive line has led the league in fewest sacks. Then check the stats to see how many teams have used their first round picks on drafting receivers and tight ends. I was born and raised in Indy and love the colts, but if Peyton wouldn't crumble under a pass rush then the colts would have won the superbowl in 2005 also. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-09-21-979939062_x.htm

Look how Brady handled the Eagles pass rush, then look how he handled the colts pass rush in the first half of the game this year. Then look how Peyton handled the NE pass rush in the 4th quarter and the san diego game this year when he threw 6 ints.
 

cranrab

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i'm only a casual fan of football, but i'd pick manning over brady.

and neither of those 2 over montana.
 

MrMotivator

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You go and check the stats to see how many times the colts offensive line has led the league in fewest sacks. Then check the stats to see how many teams have used their first round picks on drafting receivers and tight ends. I was born and raised in Indy and love the colts, but if Peyton wouldn't crumble under a pass rush then the colts would have won the superbowl in 2005 also. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-09-21-979939062_x.htm

Look how Brady handled the Eagles pass rush, then look how he handled the colts pass rush in the first half of the game this year. Then look how Peyton handled the NE pass rush in the 4th quarter and the san diego game this year when he threw 6 ints.

ok two things one Manning doesn't have two starting linemen Tony Ugo and the other dude on the other side i forgot his name. I've watched every colts game this year manning has zero time in the pocket so far this season, because of this loss of personal. The colts are so beat up they had to pull people off the practice squad and sign them two days before the game if you have any concept of the game of football losing 2 O linemen and having to replace 2 receivers during your season will fuck up any QB even brady.

Second dude your using regular season stats in a playoffs argument :smh:

the games the pats played the colts and won Brady wasn't sacked at all or very little while manning's line didn't hold for most of the game.

again using the playoffs argument the one time that Manning's line held for 3 quarters he stormed back from 21-3 to win the game. You shouldn't have to be a rocket scientist to see the connection, come on buddy you are smarter than that.
 
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