Sir, I do not know. That's why I directed my question to FJP...
I did a little checking and Motown (or whoever owns Motown now) might own the rights to "Got to Give It Up". Thicke's attorney might be onto something.
What's wrong with this white boy? Robin Thicke Sues Marvin Gaye's Family.
- Thread starter kefta
- Start date
I did a little checking and Motown (or whoever owns Motown now) might own the rights to "Got to Give It Up". Thicke's attorney might be onto something.
Okay, it looks like Thicke, Pharrell AND Clifford Harris are suing... for the benefit of those who are only seeing race here.
And Marvin Gaye's family was threatening to sue, along with the owners of the Funkadelic song, "Sexy Ways". I guess this would have gone unnoticed if it wasn't making money. I guess if Marvin Gaye's family really doesn't own the music, they will most likely sign whatever they have to in order to get out of this lawsuit just to avoid the legal fees.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-16/robin-thicke-is-really-sorry-to-sue-marvin-gayes-heirs
And Marvin Gaye's family was threatening to sue, along with the owners of the Funkadelic song, "Sexy Ways". I guess this would have gone unnoticed if it wasn't making money. I guess if Marvin Gaye's family really doesn't own the music, they will most likely sign whatever they have to in order to get out of this lawsuit just to avoid the legal fees.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-16/robin-thicke-is-really-sorry-to-sue-marvin-gayes-heirs
Word!
Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Posted on August 16, 2013
Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. This is where sample culture goes wrong and morphs into entitlement culture. I don’t know how the “composers” of Blurred Lines are even suing Gaye’s estate and insisting they didn’t do an exact rip of Marvin’s tune. I’m down with writing a piece that is influenced by another cat’s style, changing certain key elements and ultimately making it your own, but this is just wrong.
And their whole defense that the song is in tribute to an era or genre, not a specific song, is wack. First off, Gaye’s Got To Give It Up doesn’t really sound like anything else from that era. It contains a certain musical artifact that is uniquely its own—which is why it’s such an iconic sound. The song is an era within itself. Not even Marvin created anything exactly like it again. It’s elements are a cultural interpolation of blues, funk, good disco, cha-cha-cha and other Caribbean elements.
Let’s break it down in specific musical terms:
1.) The sparse square wave sounding bass line is almost identical in its function to both songs. The motif is that the bass line drops beat 1 of each bar or every other bar, leaves some space, then ad libs a little bit. This is a recurring theme throughout. Blurred Lines does exactly that, except they change a couple of the chords. Maybe that’s what they mean by “Blurred Lines.”
2.) The use of the cowbell is also a central part of both songs. The only difference in the songs—and in general—is whereas Gaye’s piece is more fluid and less pattern-based, Thicke’s interpretation is rhythmically static and doesn’t really go anywhere.
3.) They didn’t even try to change the keyboard. The upbeat chord stabs that give the song a slight Reggae feel (or should I say, ReGaye) is central to the character of the tune.
4.) They even codified that background chatter atmosphere Gaye frequently employed in his songs during this period of his work. How you gon’ turn organic party sounds into a cliché?
5.) The drums are the same: 4-on-the-floor with a snare backbeat on 2 and 4 with the occasional accent on a half-closed sock cymbal.
In short, they dumbed down the hipness of the original and turned Gaye’s classic opus into a fake, Macarena-esque, line dance, limbo party type club anthem.
How low can you go?
This is symptomatic of the lack of respect younger cats have for The Masters. The nerve of this even having to be an argument is ridiculous.
The funny part to me is that Gaye had to foresight to call it Got To Give It Up, almost like he knew 35-some-odd-years ago that some young punks would try to steal his shit.
Dudes: Give it up to the master—and most importantly—give up them royalties to Gaye’s estate.
ARTISTS: (if I can even call you that) Please write some original material. I’m tired of turning on the radio and thinking I’m about to hear Marvin Gaye’s Got To Give It Up, The Commodores’ Night Shift, or Mtume’s Juicy Fruit, and hearing your thievin’ behinds.
It’s tantamount to getting your tastebuds ready for some Kool-Aid and opening the fridge to find out somebody’s selfish ass done almost drank it all and ain’t left but a swallow!
#BAM
- Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/thicke-and-co-got-to-give-it-up-to-marvin/
Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Posted on August 16, 2013
Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. This is where sample culture goes wrong and morphs into entitlement culture. I don’t know how the “composers” of Blurred Lines are even suing Gaye’s estate and insisting they didn’t do an exact rip of Marvin’s tune. I’m down with writing a piece that is influenced by another cat’s style, changing certain key elements and ultimately making it your own, but this is just wrong.
And their whole defense that the song is in tribute to an era or genre, not a specific song, is wack. First off, Gaye’s Got To Give It Up doesn’t really sound like anything else from that era. It contains a certain musical artifact that is uniquely its own—which is why it’s such an iconic sound. The song is an era within itself. Not even Marvin created anything exactly like it again. It’s elements are a cultural interpolation of blues, funk, good disco, cha-cha-cha and other Caribbean elements.
Let’s break it down in specific musical terms:
1.) The sparse square wave sounding bass line is almost identical in its function to both songs. The motif is that the bass line drops beat 1 of each bar or every other bar, leaves some space, then ad libs a little bit. This is a recurring theme throughout. Blurred Lines does exactly that, except they change a couple of the chords. Maybe that’s what they mean by “Blurred Lines.”
2.) The use of the cowbell is also a central part of both songs. The only difference in the songs—and in general—is whereas Gaye’s piece is more fluid and less pattern-based, Thicke’s interpretation is rhythmically static and doesn’t really go anywhere.
3.) They didn’t even try to change the keyboard. The upbeat chord stabs that give the song a slight Reggae feel (or should I say, ReGaye) is central to the character of the tune.
4.) They even codified that background chatter atmosphere Gaye frequently employed in his songs during this period of his work. How you gon’ turn organic party sounds into a cliché?
5.) The drums are the same: 4-on-the-floor with a snare backbeat on 2 and 4 with the occasional accent on a half-closed sock cymbal.
In short, they dumbed down the hipness of the original and turned Gaye’s classic opus into a fake, Macarena-esque, line dance, limbo party type club anthem.
How low can you go?
This is symptomatic of the lack of respect younger cats have for The Masters. The nerve of this even having to be an argument is ridiculous.
The funny part to me is that Gaye had to foresight to call it Got To Give It Up, almost like he knew 35-some-odd-years ago that some young punks would try to steal his shit.
Dudes: Give it up to the master—and most importantly—give up them royalties to Gaye’s estate.
ARTISTS: (if I can even call you that) Please write some original material. I’m tired of turning on the radio and thinking I’m about to hear Marvin Gaye’s Got To Give It Up, The Commodores’ Night Shift, or Mtume’s Juicy Fruit, and hearing your thievin’ behinds.
It’s tantamount to getting your tastebuds ready for some Kool-Aid and opening the fridge to find out somebody’s selfish ass done almost drank it all and ain’t left but a swallow!
#BAM
- Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/thicke-and-co-got-to-give-it-up-to-marvin/
Wikipedia said:
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Colin Warning!!!
Thicke’s Got To Give It Up (Pt. 2)
Posted on August 17, 2013
Since Gaye’s Got To Give It Up is in two parts, I thought it would be fitting to make my post in two parts.
I knew that a lot of folks would be pissed off at the first line of my previous piece being, “Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music.” And that would color the way some folks would read and interpret the rest of the piece, but, when I think about what’s so fucked up about it, the White part is it.
Let me explain why . . .
To this point, Robin Thicke has built his celebrity around Black music, and the core of his fan base is Black people—Black women in particular. I recall seeing an interview of Thicke on TV One years ago where he said explicitly that Marvin Gaye was his favorite vocalist. That really resonated with me, as anyone who knows me, knows that Marvin is my fave, as well. And after Miles Davis, he is my favorite musician, period.
It is incredulous to me that someone who owes a tremendous debt of gratitude for his success to the Black community, and who has a Black wife, and biracial kids, could be as callous to sue Marvin Gaye’s estate as a preemptive strike against his blatant theft of Gaye’s material. All respect due to Funkadelic, but I hear no resemblance to their song Sexy Mama, as some suggest.
The “White Man stealing Black music” is cliché, really, but we never should become so desensitized to wrongdoings that we simply let it pass by unacknowledged. To those who say Pharrell was complicit in the plagiarist act, I say, yes, but it’s ultimately Thicke’s record and the onus is on him to do what is right. Besides, Black men have typically sold out their brothers and ancestors for a piece of silver. Just this year alone, Russell Simmons publicly disrespected Harriet Tubman, and Lil’ Wayne, Emmett Till. Two iconic, Black ancestors exploited and used for laughs and shock value. But that’s where we are with it today; everything’s a meme, and no one is above being a target.
And the whole argument that Pharrell’s participation makes it less racially offensive, is very similar to when Whites pull out the “Well, Zimmerman’s not White,” card or the “Well, the Black community doesn’t get as upset about Black-on-Black crime as they have the Trayvon Martin case?”
Racism is not about an individual act; it’s a collective system that hands out rewards and privileges to Robin Thicke that Marvin Gaye never got to enjoy.
“Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it.”
— Robin Thicke
So, Mr. Thicke, how do you go from knowing you “composed” a song something like Marvin’s, to suing his estate to protect your ass? See the problem is that he knows—legally—he didn’t steal any copyrightable elements. Since groove, chord progressions, rhythms, blues and vibe are not legally copyrightable, he technically didn’t steal the song. In other words, of all the things that are indicative of Black music, the most important elements are not able to be copyrighted. Another example of African ideals being seen as invalid through the Western/European lens.
Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. George Zimmerman was found not guilty of murder, but that doesn’t mean his act wasn’t morally wrong. The problem with the American justice system is that any act is both legal and illegal. What side of the law you might find yourself all depends on who you are, who you know, and how much money you have.
Robin Thicke is the George Zimmerman of copyright infringement. By suing the Gaye estate, he evoked the musical equivalent of Stand Your Ground.
I think what needs to happen here is a rewriting of copyright law. But then again, even when someone directly samples your recorded work—as in the case of flautist James Newton vs. the Beastie Boys—you still might come up short. Because Newton is a Black man who played music imbued with the Black aesthetic, the judge ruled that the 3 notes, albeit important in Mr. Newton’s composition, were not enough to constitute a song. Not only did James Newton lose his case, but I think the Beastie Boys wound up suing him. Sound familiar?
This all plays into the narrative that when you’re Black in America, there is not value to your life or your creations. Not only do your possessions not belong to you, but you don’t belong to you. You don’t own anything. You are a slave.
“We tried to do everything that was taboo. Bestiality, drug injections, and everything that is completely derogatory towards women. Because all three of us are happily married with children, we were like, ‘We’re the perfect guys to make fun of this.’ People say, ‘Hey, do you think this is degrading to women?’ I’m like, ‘Of course it is. What a pleasure it is to degrade a woman. I’ve never gotten to do that before. I’ve always respected women.’ ”
— Robin Thicke
I also think it’s interesting that he openly admitted to degrading women in the video and had this summer’s biggest hit, whereas Rick Ross lost endorsements and became the whipping boy of feminists for glorifying rape culture by talking about putting a molly in a girl’s drink unbeknownst to her and having his way, as a result. It’s cute when a White matinee idol does it, but let a big Black guy do it, and everybody’s in a tizzy.
What’s also quite revealing here is that the song, in which Mr. Thicke committed a cultural crime against Marvin Gaye, has been his entrée and acceptance into the Pop world. He went from being a fairly popular Urban artist to a mainstream sensation, overnight. He may take this as encouragement to continue in this fashion. Why not? His shenanigans have done nothing but made him an even bigger star.
As a White man, I know Thicke is not personally responsible for what his ancestors did, nor should he necessarily feel guilty by virtue of being labeled “White,” but when he turns around and steals from a Black artist whom he purports to admire, he’s no better than his White predecessors. He’s following in the footsteps of all the other White cats who stole Black music and their money.
Don’t just pay tribute; pay royalties.
— Nicholas Payton
In business, the way you show respect is through financial support.
So, I know many of you are tired of hearing it, but many of us are tired of it happening. So, to you White folks, who get upset every time a Black person calls out racism—just pause—and imagine how we must feel.
On the heels of Marvin’s song, Thicke has broken the record for the highest radio listeners ever recorded—ever—and reached No. 1 in 102 countries. He’s got the greatest radio ratings ever, and not only does he refuse to give a portion to the Gaye estate, but he sues. Wow.
He’s missing a golden opportunity to pay back an artist he’s indebted to. Instead, he’s decided to just rip him off.
I ain’t mad, nor am I surprised, but I am disappointed. Thicke should know better. And unless he apologizes, and pays a percentage to the family, Blacks should stop financing his career.
#BAM
— Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/thickes-got-to-give-it-up-pt-2/
Colin Warning!!!
Thicke’s Got To Give It Up (Pt. 2)
Posted on August 17, 2013
Since Gaye’s Got To Give It Up is in two parts, I thought it would be fitting to make my post in two parts.
I knew that a lot of folks would be pissed off at the first line of my previous piece being, “Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music.” And that would color the way some folks would read and interpret the rest of the piece, but, when I think about what’s so fucked up about it, the White part is it.
Let me explain why . . .
To this point, Robin Thicke has built his celebrity around Black music, and the core of his fan base is Black people—Black women in particular. I recall seeing an interview of Thicke on TV One years ago where he said explicitly that Marvin Gaye was his favorite vocalist. That really resonated with me, as anyone who knows me, knows that Marvin is my fave, as well. And after Miles Davis, he is my favorite musician, period.
It is incredulous to me that someone who owes a tremendous debt of gratitude for his success to the Black community, and who has a Black wife, and biracial kids, could be as callous to sue Marvin Gaye’s estate as a preemptive strike against his blatant theft of Gaye’s material. All respect due to Funkadelic, but I hear no resemblance to their song Sexy Mama, as some suggest.
The “White Man stealing Black music” is cliché, really, but we never should become so desensitized to wrongdoings that we simply let it pass by unacknowledged. To those who say Pharrell was complicit in the plagiarist act, I say, yes, but it’s ultimately Thicke’s record and the onus is on him to do what is right. Besides, Black men have typically sold out their brothers and ancestors for a piece of silver. Just this year alone, Russell Simmons publicly disrespected Harriet Tubman, and Lil’ Wayne, Emmett Till. Two iconic, Black ancestors exploited and used for laughs and shock value. But that’s where we are with it today; everything’s a meme, and no one is above being a target.
And the whole argument that Pharrell’s participation makes it less racially offensive, is very similar to when Whites pull out the “Well, Zimmerman’s not White,” card or the “Well, the Black community doesn’t get as upset about Black-on-Black crime as they have the Trayvon Martin case?”
Racism is not about an individual act; it’s a collective system that hands out rewards and privileges to Robin Thicke that Marvin Gaye never got to enjoy.
“Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it.”
— Robin Thicke
So, Mr. Thicke, how do you go from knowing you “composed” a song something like Marvin’s, to suing his estate to protect your ass? See the problem is that he knows—legally—he didn’t steal any copyrightable elements. Since groove, chord progressions, rhythms, blues and vibe are not legally copyrightable, he technically didn’t steal the song. In other words, of all the things that are indicative of Black music, the most important elements are not able to be copyrighted. Another example of African ideals being seen as invalid through the Western/European lens.
Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. George Zimmerman was found not guilty of murder, but that doesn’t mean his act wasn’t morally wrong. The problem with the American justice system is that any act is both legal and illegal. What side of the law you might find yourself all depends on who you are, who you know, and how much money you have.
Robin Thicke is the George Zimmerman of copyright infringement. By suing the Gaye estate, he evoked the musical equivalent of Stand Your Ground.
I think what needs to happen here is a rewriting of copyright law. But then again, even when someone directly samples your recorded work—as in the case of flautist James Newton vs. the Beastie Boys—you still might come up short. Because Newton is a Black man who played music imbued with the Black aesthetic, the judge ruled that the 3 notes, albeit important in Mr. Newton’s composition, were not enough to constitute a song. Not only did James Newton lose his case, but I think the Beastie Boys wound up suing him. Sound familiar?
This all plays into the narrative that when you’re Black in America, there is not value to your life or your creations. Not only do your possessions not belong to you, but you don’t belong to you. You don’t own anything. You are a slave.
“We tried to do everything that was taboo. Bestiality, drug injections, and everything that is completely derogatory towards women. Because all three of us are happily married with children, we were like, ‘We’re the perfect guys to make fun of this.’ People say, ‘Hey, do you think this is degrading to women?’ I’m like, ‘Of course it is. What a pleasure it is to degrade a woman. I’ve never gotten to do that before. I’ve always respected women.’ ”
— Robin Thicke
I also think it’s interesting that he openly admitted to degrading women in the video and had this summer’s biggest hit, whereas Rick Ross lost endorsements and became the whipping boy of feminists for glorifying rape culture by talking about putting a molly in a girl’s drink unbeknownst to her and having his way, as a result. It’s cute when a White matinee idol does it, but let a big Black guy do it, and everybody’s in a tizzy.
What’s also quite revealing here is that the song, in which Mr. Thicke committed a cultural crime against Marvin Gaye, has been his entrée and acceptance into the Pop world. He went from being a fairly popular Urban artist to a mainstream sensation, overnight. He may take this as encouragement to continue in this fashion. Why not? His shenanigans have done nothing but made him an even bigger star.
As a White man, I know Thicke is not personally responsible for what his ancestors did, nor should he necessarily feel guilty by virtue of being labeled “White,” but when he turns around and steals from a Black artist whom he purports to admire, he’s no better than his White predecessors. He’s following in the footsteps of all the other White cats who stole Black music and their money.
Don’t just pay tribute; pay royalties.
— Nicholas Payton
In business, the way you show respect is through financial support.
So, I know many of you are tired of hearing it, but many of us are tired of it happening. So, to you White folks, who get upset every time a Black person calls out racism—just pause—and imagine how we must feel.
On the heels of Marvin’s song, Thicke has broken the record for the highest radio listeners ever recorded—ever—and reached No. 1 in 102 countries. He’s got the greatest radio ratings ever, and not only does he refuse to give a portion to the Gaye estate, but he sues. Wow.
He’s missing a golden opportunity to pay back an artist he’s indebted to. Instead, he’s decided to just rip him off.
I ain’t mad, nor am I surprised, but I am disappointed. Thicke should know better. And unless he apologizes, and pays a percentage to the family, Blacks should stop financing his career.
#BAM
— Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/thickes-got-to-give-it-up-pt-2/
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Non reading-ass one star bandit strikes again.
Could have at least left a comment pro or con, you ashy lipped 3 rotten teeth having bastard.
Non reading-ass one star bandit strikes again.
Could have at least left a comment pro or con, you ashy lipped 3 rotten teeth having bastard.
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
na it's been discussed more or less in like 2-3 diff threads
Non reading-ass one star bandit strikes again.
Could have at least left a comment pro or con, you ashy lipped 3 rotten teeth having bastard.
na it's been discussed more or less in like 2-3 diff threads
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
post that shit in the original thread fam.
Non reading-ass one star bandit strikes again.
Could have at least left a comment pro or con, you ashy lipped 3 rotten teeth having bastard.
post that shit in the original thread fam.
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Right on cue.
Not these particular blog posts. Felt like they needed their own.
Good suggest. I might just do that as well.
Man that fucking essay
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4
Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Posted on August 16, 2013
Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. This is where sample culture goes wrong and morphs into entitlement culture. I don’t know how the “composers” of Blurred Lines are even suing Gaye’s estate and insisting they didn’t do an exact rip of Marvin’s tune. I’m down with writing a piece that is influenced by another cat’s style, changing certain key elements and ultimately making it your own, but this is just wrong.
And their whole defense that the song is in tribute to an era or genre, not a specific song, is wack. First off, Gaye’s Got To Give It Up doesn’t really sound like anything else from that era. It contains a certain musical artifact that is uniquely its own—which is why it’s such an iconic sound. The song is an era within itself. Not even Marvin created anything exactly like it again. It’s elements are a cultural interpolation of blues, funk, good disco, cha-cha-cha and other Caribbean elements.
Let’s break it down in specific musical terms:
1.) The sparse square wave sounding bass line is almost identical in its function to both songs. The motif is that the bass line drops beat 1 of each bar or every other bar, leaves some space, then ad libs a little bit. This is a recurring theme throughout. Blurred Lines does exactly that, except they change a couple of the chords. Maybe that’s what they mean by “Blurred Lines.”
2.) The use of the cowbell is also a central part of both songs. The only difference in the songs—and in general—is whereas Gaye’s piece is more fluid and less pattern-based, Thicke’s interpretation is rhythmically static and doesn’t really go anywhere.
3.) They didn’t even try to change the keyboard. The upbeat chord stabs that give the song a slight Reggae feel (or should I say, ReGaye) is central to the character of the tune.
4.) They even codified that background chatter atmosphere Gaye frequently employed in his songs during this period of his work. How you gon’ turn organic party sounds into a cliché?
5.) The drums are the same: 4-on-the-floor with a snare backbeat on 2 and 4 with the occasional accent on a half-closed sock cymbal.
In short, they dumbed down the hipness of the original and turned Gaye’s classic opus into a fake, Macarena-esque, line dance, limbo party type club anthem.
How low can you go?
This is symptomatic of the lack of respect younger cats have for The Masters. The nerve of this even having to be an argument is ridiculous.
The funny part to me is that Gaye had to foresight to call it Got To Give It Up, almost like he knew 35-some-odd-years ago that some young punks would try to steal his shit.
Dudes: Give it up to the master—and most importantly—give up them royalties to Gaye’s estate.
ARTISTS: (if I can even call you that) Please write some original material. I’m tired of turning on the radio and thinking I’m about to hear Marvin Gaye’s Got To Give It Up, The Commodores’ Night Shift, or Mtume’s Juicy Fruit, and hearing your thievin’ behinds.
It’s tantamount to getting your tastebuds ready for some Kool-Aid and opening the fridge to find out somebody’s selfish ass done almost drank it all and ain’t left but a swallow!
#BAM
- Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/thicke-and-co-got-to-give-it-up-to-marvin/
Posted on August 16, 2013
Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. This is where sample culture goes wrong and morphs into entitlement culture. I don’t know how the “composers” of Blurred Lines are even suing Gaye’s estate and insisting they didn’t do an exact rip of Marvin’s tune. I’m down with writing a piece that is influenced by another cat’s style, changing certain key elements and ultimately making it your own, but this is just wrong.
And their whole defense that the song is in tribute to an era or genre, not a specific song, is wack. First off, Gaye’s Got To Give It Up doesn’t really sound like anything else from that era. It contains a certain musical artifact that is uniquely its own—which is why it’s such an iconic sound. The song is an era within itself. Not even Marvin created anything exactly like it again. It’s elements are a cultural interpolation of blues, funk, good disco, cha-cha-cha and other Caribbean elements.
Let’s break it down in specific musical terms:
1.) The sparse square wave sounding bass line is almost identical in its function to both songs. The motif is that the bass line drops beat 1 of each bar or every other bar, leaves some space, then ad libs a little bit. This is a recurring theme throughout. Blurred Lines does exactly that, except they change a couple of the chords. Maybe that’s what they mean by “Blurred Lines.”
2.) The use of the cowbell is also a central part of both songs. The only difference in the songs—and in general—is whereas Gaye’s piece is more fluid and less pattern-based, Thicke’s interpretation is rhythmically static and doesn’t really go anywhere.
3.) They didn’t even try to change the keyboard. The upbeat chord stabs that give the song a slight Reggae feel (or should I say, ReGaye) is central to the character of the tune.
4.) They even codified that background chatter atmosphere Gaye frequently employed in his songs during this period of his work. How you gon’ turn organic party sounds into a cliché?
5.) The drums are the same: 4-on-the-floor with a snare backbeat on 2 and 4 with the occasional accent on a half-closed sock cymbal.
In short, they dumbed down the hipness of the original and turned Gaye’s classic opus into a fake, Macarena-esque, line dance, limbo party type club anthem.
How low can you go?
This is symptomatic of the lack of respect younger cats have for The Masters. The nerve of this even having to be an argument is ridiculous.
The funny part to me is that Gaye had to foresight to call it Got To Give It Up, almost like he knew 35-some-odd-years ago that some young punks would try to steal his shit.
Dudes: Give it up to the master—and most importantly—give up them royalties to Gaye’s estate.
ARTISTS: (if I can even call you that) Please write some original material. I’m tired of turning on the radio and thinking I’m about to hear Marvin Gaye’s Got To Give It Up, The Commodores’ Night Shift, or Mtume’s Juicy Fruit, and hearing your thievin’ behinds.
It’s tantamount to getting your tastebuds ready for some Kool-Aid and opening the fridge to find out somebody’s selfish ass done almost drank it all and ain’t left but a swallow!
#BAM
- Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/16/thicke-and-co-got-to-give-it-up-to-marvin/
Thicke’s Got To Give It Up (Pt. 2)
Posted on August 17, 2013
Since Gaye’s Got To Give It Up is in two parts, I thought it would be fitting to make my post in two parts.
I knew that a lot of folks would be pissed off at the first line of my previous piece being, “Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music.” And that would color the way some folks would read and interpret the rest of the piece, but, when I think about what’s so fucked up about it, the White part is it.
Let me explain why . . .
To this point, Robin Thicke has built his celebrity around Black music, and the core of his fan base is Black people—Black women in particular. I recall seeing an interview of Thicke on TV One years ago where he said explicitly that Marvin Gaye was his favorite vocalist. That really resonated with me, as anyone who knows me, knows that Marvin is my fave, as well. And after Miles Davis, he is my favorite musician, period.
It is incredulous to me that someone who owes a tremendous debt of gratitude for his success to the Black community, and who has a Black wife, and biracial kids, could be as callous to sue Marvin Gaye’s estate as a preemptive strike against his blatant theft of Gaye’s material. All respect due to Funkadelic, but I hear no resemblance to their song Sexy Mama, as some suggest.
The “White Man stealing Black music” is cliché, really, but we never should become so desensitized to wrongdoings that we simply let it pass by unacknowledged. To those who say Pharrell was complicit in the plagiarist act, I say, yes, but it’s ultimately Thicke’s record and the onus is on him to do what is right. Besides, Black men have typically sold out their brothers and ancestors for a piece of silver. Just this year alone, Russell Simmons publicly disrespected Harriet Tubman, and Lil’ Wayne, Emmett Till. Two iconic, Black ancestors exploited and used for laughs and shock value. But that’s where we are with it today; everything’s a meme, and no one is above being a target.
And the whole argument that Pharrell’s participation makes it less racially offensive, is very similar to when Whites pull out the “Well, Zimmerman’s not White,” card or the “Well, the Black community doesn’t get as upset about Black-on-Black crime as they have the Trayvon Martin case?”
Racism is not about an individual act; it’s a collective system that hands out rewards and privileges to Robin Thicke that Marvin Gaye never got to enjoy.
“Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it.”
— Robin Thicke
So, Mr. Thicke, how do you go from knowing you “composed” a song something like Marvin’s, to suing his estate to protect your ass? See the problem is that he knows—legally—he didn’t steal any copyrightable elements. Since groove, chord progressions, rhythms, blues and vibe are not legally copyrightable, he technically didn’t steal the song. In other words, of all the things that are indicative of Black music, the most important elements are not able to be copyrighted. Another example of African ideals being seen as invalid through the Western/European lens.
Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. George Zimmerman was found not guilty of murder, but that doesn’t mean his act wasn’t morally wrong. The problem with the American justice system is that any act is both legal and illegal. What side of the law you might find yourself all depends on who you are, who you know, and how much money you have.
Robin Thicke is the George Zimmerman of copyright infringement. By suing the Gaye estate, he evoked the musical equivalent of Stand Your Ground.
I think what needs to happen here is a rewriting of copyright law. But then again, even when someone directly samples your recorded work—as in the case of flautist James Newton vs. the Beastie Boys—you still might come up short. Because Newton is a Black man who played music imbued with the Black aesthetic, the judge ruled that the 3 notes, albeit important in Mr. Newton’s composition, were not enough to constitute a song. Not only did James Newton lose his case, but I think the Beastie Boys wound up suing him. Sound familiar?
This all plays into the narrative that when you’re Black in America, there is not value to your life or your creations. Not only do your possessions not belong to you, but you don’t belong to you. You don’t own anything. You are a slave.
“We tried to do everything that was taboo. Bestiality, drug injections, and everything that is completely derogatory towards women. Because all three of us are happily married with children, we were like, ‘We’re the perfect guys to make fun of this.’ People say, ‘Hey, do you think this is degrading to women?’ I’m like, ‘Of course it is. What a pleasure it is to degrade a woman. I’ve never gotten to do that before. I’ve always respected women.’ ”
— Robin Thicke
I also think it’s interesting that he openly admitted to degrading women in the video and had this summer’s biggest hit, whereas Rick Ross lost endorsements and became the whipping boy of feminists for glorifying rape culture by talking about putting a molly in a girl’s drink unbeknownst to her and having his way, as a result. It’s cute when a White matinee idol does it, but let a big Black guy do it, and everybody’s in a tizzy.
What’s also quite revealing here is that the song, in which Mr. Thicke committed a cultural crime against Marvin Gaye, has been his entrée and acceptance into the Pop world. He went from being a fairly popular Urban artist to a mainstream sensation, overnight. He may take this as encouragement to continue in this fashion. Why not? His shenanigans have done nothing but made him an even bigger star.
As a White man, I know Thicke is not personally responsible for what his ancestors did, nor should he necessarily feel guilty by virtue of being labeled “White,” but when he turns around and steals from a Black artist whom he purports to admire, he’s no better than his White predecessors. He’s following in the footsteps of all the other White cats who stole Black music and their money.
Don’t just pay tribute; pay royalties.
— Nicholas Payton
In business, the way you show respect is through financial support.
So, I know many of you are tired of hearing it, but many of us are tired of it happening. So, to you White folks, who get upset every time a Black person calls out racism—just pause—and imagine how we must feel.
On the heels of Marvin’s song, Thicke has broken the record for the highest radio listeners ever recorded—ever—and reached No. 1 in 102 countries. He’s got the greatest radio ratings ever, and not only does he refuse to give a portion to the Gaye estate, but he sues. Wow.
He’s missing a golden opportunity to pay back an artist he’s indebted to. Instead, he’s decided to just rip him off.
I ain’t mad, nor am I surprised, but I am disappointed. Thicke should know better. And unless he apologizes, and pays a percentage to the family, Blacks should stop financing his career.
#BAM
— Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/thickes-got-to-give-it-up-pt-2/
Posted on August 17, 2013
Since Gaye’s Got To Give It Up is in two parts, I thought it would be fitting to make my post in two parts.
I knew that a lot of folks would be pissed off at the first line of my previous piece being, “Wow, another case of a White dude stealing Black music.” And that would color the way some folks would read and interpret the rest of the piece, but, when I think about what’s so fucked up about it, the White part is it.
Let me explain why . . .
To this point, Robin Thicke has built his celebrity around Black music, and the core of his fan base is Black people—Black women in particular. I recall seeing an interview of Thicke on TV One years ago where he said explicitly that Marvin Gaye was his favorite vocalist. That really resonated with me, as anyone who knows me, knows that Marvin is my fave, as well. And after Miles Davis, he is my favorite musician, period.
It is incredulous to me that someone who owes a tremendous debt of gratitude for his success to the Black community, and who has a Black wife, and biracial kids, could be as callous to sue Marvin Gaye’s estate as a preemptive strike against his blatant theft of Gaye’s material. All respect due to Funkadelic, but I hear no resemblance to their song Sexy Mama, as some suggest.
The “White Man stealing Black music” is cliché, really, but we never should become so desensitized to wrongdoings that we simply let it pass by unacknowledged. To those who say Pharrell was complicit in the plagiarist act, I say, yes, but it’s ultimately Thicke’s record and the onus is on him to do what is right. Besides, Black men have typically sold out their brothers and ancestors for a piece of silver. Just this year alone, Russell Simmons publicly disrespected Harriet Tubman, and Lil’ Wayne, Emmett Till. Two iconic, Black ancestors exploited and used for laughs and shock value. But that’s where we are with it today; everything’s a meme, and no one is above being a target.
And the whole argument that Pharrell’s participation makes it less racially offensive, is very similar to when Whites pull out the “Well, Zimmerman’s not White,” card or the “Well, the Black community doesn’t get as upset about Black-on-Black crime as they have the Trayvon Martin case?”
Racism is not about an individual act; it’s a collective system that hands out rewards and privileges to Robin Thicke that Marvin Gaye never got to enjoy.
“Pharrell and I were in the studio and I told him that one of my favorite songs of all time was Marvin Gaye’s ‘Got to Give It Up.’ I was like, ‘Damn, we should make something like that, something with that groove.’ Then he started playing a little something and we literally wrote the song in about a half hour and recorded it.”
— Robin Thicke
So, Mr. Thicke, how do you go from knowing you “composed” a song something like Marvin’s, to suing his estate to protect your ass? See the problem is that he knows—legally—he didn’t steal any copyrightable elements. Since groove, chord progressions, rhythms, blues and vibe are not legally copyrightable, he technically didn’t steal the song. In other words, of all the things that are indicative of Black music, the most important elements are not able to be copyrighted. Another example of African ideals being seen as invalid through the Western/European lens.
Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. George Zimmerman was found not guilty of murder, but that doesn’t mean his act wasn’t morally wrong. The problem with the American justice system is that any act is both legal and illegal. What side of the law you might find yourself all depends on who you are, who you know, and how much money you have.
Robin Thicke is the George Zimmerman of copyright infringement. By suing the Gaye estate, he evoked the musical equivalent of Stand Your Ground.
I think what needs to happen here is a rewriting of copyright law. But then again, even when someone directly samples your recorded work—as in the case of flautist James Newton vs. the Beastie Boys—you still might come up short. Because Newton is a Black man who played music imbued with the Black aesthetic, the judge ruled that the 3 notes, albeit important in Mr. Newton’s composition, were not enough to constitute a song. Not only did James Newton lose his case, but I think the Beastie Boys wound up suing him. Sound familiar?
This all plays into the narrative that when you’re Black in America, there is not value to your life or your creations. Not only do your possessions not belong to you, but you don’t belong to you. You don’t own anything. You are a slave.
“We tried to do everything that was taboo. Bestiality, drug injections, and everything that is completely derogatory towards women. Because all three of us are happily married with children, we were like, ‘We’re the perfect guys to make fun of this.’ People say, ‘Hey, do you think this is degrading to women?’ I’m like, ‘Of course it is. What a pleasure it is to degrade a woman. I’ve never gotten to do that before. I’ve always respected women.’ ”
— Robin Thicke
I also think it’s interesting that he openly admitted to degrading women in the video and had this summer’s biggest hit, whereas Rick Ross lost endorsements and became the whipping boy of feminists for glorifying rape culture by talking about putting a molly in a girl’s drink unbeknownst to her and having his way, as a result. It’s cute when a White matinee idol does it, but let a big Black guy do it, and everybody’s in a tizzy.
What’s also quite revealing here is that the song, in which Mr. Thicke committed a cultural crime against Marvin Gaye, has been his entrée and acceptance into the Pop world. He went from being a fairly popular Urban artist to a mainstream sensation, overnight. He may take this as encouragement to continue in this fashion. Why not? His shenanigans have done nothing but made him an even bigger star.
As a White man, I know Thicke is not personally responsible for what his ancestors did, nor should he necessarily feel guilty by virtue of being labeled “White,” but when he turns around and steals from a Black artist whom he purports to admire, he’s no better than his White predecessors. He’s following in the footsteps of all the other White cats who stole Black music and their money.
Don’t just pay tribute; pay royalties.
— Nicholas Payton
In business, the way you show respect is through financial support.
So, I know many of you are tired of hearing it, but many of us are tired of it happening. So, to you White folks, who get upset every time a Black person calls out racism—just pause—and imagine how we must feel.
On the heels of Marvin’s song, Thicke has broken the record for the highest radio listeners ever recorded—ever—and reached No. 1 in 102 countries. He’s got the greatest radio ratings ever, and not only does he refuse to give a portion to the Gaye estate, but he sues. Wow.
He’s missing a golden opportunity to pay back an artist he’s indebted to. Instead, he’s decided to just rip him off.
I ain’t mad, nor am I surprised, but I am disappointed. Thicke should know better. And unless he apologizes, and pays a percentage to the family, Blacks should stop financing his career.
#BAM
— Nicholas Payton aka The Savior of Archaic Pop
http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2013/08/17/thickes-got-to-give-it-up-pt-2/
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
DAMN, I almost pissed my pants when I saw this!!! damn..man that shit was the funniest thing that I have seen in the past week.
damn, yall wasting yall talents!!!
DAMN, I almost pissed my pants when I saw this!!!
damn..man that shit was the funniest thing that I have seen in the past week.damn, yall wasting yall talents!!!
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
It seems like most who've felt otherwise are under a certain age and/or are not familiar with the song.
No question about it.
It seems like most who've felt otherwise are under a certain age and/or are not familiar with the song.
*Sorry, I couldn't hear or read that long ass post of nothing due to the deafening fact of lack of ownership from the Gaye camp.*
The writer doesn't even know the correct name of the Funkadelic song! And the last shred of possible credibility was lost when that blowhard started comparing Robin Thicke to George Zimmerman. OP should be ashamed to keep reposting that bullshit on this board!
Marvin Gaye's family does not own any copyrights - they are shilling for the (white) corporate entity trying to shakedown Robin (AND Pharrell AND T.I.). George Clinton does not have a legal dog in this fight, either and this is what he had to say:
https://twitter.com/george_clinton/status/368210216828932096
@george_clinton
No sample of #Funkadelic's 'Sexy Ways' in @RobinThicke's 'Blurred Lines' - yet Armen Boladian thinks so? We support @RobinThicke @Pharrell!
8:18 PM - 15 Aug 13
Illiteracy is the in thing these days, so yay you.
The last shred of possily credibility was lost when they started comparing Robin Thicke to George Zimmerman. OP should be ashamed to keep reposting that bullshit on this board!
Marvin Gaye's family does not own any copyrights - they are shilling for the (white) corporate entity trying to shakedown Robin (AND Pharrell AND T.I.). George Clinton does not have a legal dog in this fight, either and this is what he had to say:
https://twitter.com/george_clinton/status/368210216828932096
@george_clinton
No sample of #Funkadelic's 'Sexy Ways' in @RobinThicke's 'Blurred Lines' - yet Armen Boladian thinks so? We support @RobinThicke @Pharrell!
8:18 PM - 15 Aug 13
Story getting more interesting now that we're getting past the "fuck that cac" part of the discussion.
LOl @ George giving no support for T.I.
I'm going to count but maybe he was out of character space.
Try as you may, but in the end all you haters will not prosper.
I'm a good sport though, here's some complimentary drinks, I know your parched from all that hard work
It happens so often, black people just say "You hear this bullshit?" to each other and move on. If I coulda filed a lawsuit on Marvin's behalf, I would!
LOL.Try as you may, but in the end all you haters will not prosper.
I'm a good sport though, here's some complimentary drinks, I know your parched from all that hard work
"Hater" at anything one doesn't agree with is the ultimate cliche.
Rather than this little "tit for tat", as amusing as it may be, I'd rather engage with you and others either on the blog posts or specific points in this thread relating to the topic.
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
We needed another thread on this subject.....crazy shit is there's like 2 other posts on it on the 1st page.
We needed another thread on this subject.....crazy shit is there's like 2 other posts on it on the 1st page.
Re: Thicke and Co., Got To Give It Up To Marvin
Basically, it means that someone could jack a good deal of someone else's song, but just make sure to change one note in every 7 notes. Nicholas Payton speaks on this discrepancy in the second blog post.
This kind of thing isn't new to Pharrell though. From 5 years ago:
Such cases that have gone to court, have often leaned toward the "7 consecutive(melodic) note rule". So, I somewhat see you. I don't agree with that "rule" though.
Basically, it means that someone could jack a good deal of someone else's song, but just make sure to change one note in every 7 notes. Nicholas Payton speaks on this discrepancy in the second blog post.
This kind of thing isn't new to Pharrell though. From 5 years ago:
More proof this is nothing more than a bullshit shakedown. TMZ asked MG3 point blank numerous times if there was a legal case forthcoming and there never was a Yes/No answer. All he wanted to talk about was his kidneys and his "new album".
Implying that Robin is a racist exploiter while clinging to his white wife makes MG3 a modern day "Kalinga". And who the hell hires an apparently mute spokesperson named "D'Extra"? This shakedown is a MEGAFAIL!
Implying that Robin is a racist exploiter while clinging to his white wife makes MG3 a modern day "Kalinga". And who the hell hires an apparently mute spokesperson named "D'Extra"? This shakedown is a MEGAFAIL!
Billboard has learned that Robin Thicke's team offered a six-figure sum to members of Marvin Gaye's family in order to preempt a copyright infringement showdown, but the family turned it down.
We asked Ron Sadoff, a professor at New York University's Steinhardt School and director of programs in scoring for film and multimedia and songwriting at Steinhardt's Department of Music and Performing Arts Professions, for his opinion.
"Thicke's 'Blurred Lines' may have been inspired by Marvin Gaye's 'Got to Give It Up,' but the songs' respective 'touch and feel,' as well as their use of structural musical materials, are common to many popular songs," Sadoff said. "From a musicological perspective, the songs share even less similarities in terms of their use of structural materials such as melody and harmony. 'Blurred Lines' is composed squarely within the major mode, while 'Got to Give It Up' revolves around the blues scale. In this key area of melodic content, there doesn't appear to be evidence that would suggest plagiarism on the part of Robin Thicke."
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/blurred-lines-legal-battle-marvin-613551
I think the gaye family overplayed their hand and got greedy..
We asked Ron Sadoff, a professor at New York University's Steinhardt School and director of programs in scoring for film and multimedia and songwriting at Steinhardt's Department of Music and Performing Arts Professions, for his opinion.
"Thicke's 'Blurred Lines' may have been inspired by Marvin Gaye's 'Got to Give It Up,' but the songs' respective 'touch and feel,' as well as their use of structural musical materials, are common to many popular songs," Sadoff said. "From a musicological perspective, the songs share even less similarities in terms of their use of structural materials such as melody and harmony. 'Blurred Lines' is composed squarely within the major mode, while 'Got to Give It Up' revolves around the blues scale. In this key area of melodic content, there doesn't appear to be evidence that would suggest plagiarism on the part of Robin Thicke."
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/blurred-lines-legal-battle-marvin-613551
I think the gaye family overplayed their hand and got greedy..
Disagree. This guy is speaking of melody and harmony - leaving out orchestration and rhythm. The rhythm section is what drives both songs.
That is more specific and also accurate.Nicholas Payton said:
the question people especially black people should be asking is.....will this destroy any credibility he has in the black community? he's not justin timberlake. he can't run to do tv or movies. he's not really a r&b pop singer like usher or rihanna. so if he doesn't apologize, dump the lawsuit and move on, his career is basically done.