Why are Latinos and others groups trying to say they created Hip-Hop when it was really Black people?

[DJCandle]

Correction. It started with the dancers (who later became known as B-Boys). The B-Boys only danced on the break part of the record. Thus the reason Kool Herc began focusing on just the break.

This is correct. Early B-boys like Cholly Rock we’re doing the Puerto Rican locking and uprocking that dates back to the 60’s. The DJ’s gave B-boys the extended breaks like Apache and Give It Up and Turn It Loose. Together, the B-boys and DJ’s dominated the earliest of hip hop scenes.

 

[DJCandle]

Naw Fat Joe with that Harvard comment is pigeonholing black folk.
As far as Nore being excluded from being Latin Kings. Look at how there are both Latin gangs and white gangs that excluded blacks from joining. Yet both Latin/white gangs either allow each other or allow collaboration their groups.

That’s what gang-prison culture was all about. It was about creating your own cliques and facets and rocking with each other to kill off the competition but we see how that story usually plays out. That leaked out into the streets but with the birth of hip hop, in many ways, was the direct contradiction to that. It unified and brought those impoverished and lesser fortunate factions together to uplift.

 

[footloose]

Being that one of the biggest hits in reggae back in the days was a fba hell. We helped create reggae. I think we should start doing reggae music too.

 

[DJCandle]

 

[November 17]

Nores story is an all too familiar one. Those lines are always blurred when you got two or more backgrounds or even lineage that you can trace back to someplace which more people today are wakening up to. Just something to deal with.

Fat Joe’s story is what I was touching on earlier in my rant. That division is really a west coast/Midwest/southern thing. Or an outside the east coast thing I should say. I remember the first time I ever went out west and landed in Oakland. I could literally feel the racism and division in the air, it was that strong. And me being an east coast dude and not being used to that kinda division threw me for a loop.

As for Joe’s Harvard comments, I get what he’s saying. I don’t think he means any disrespect by it and if you speak the language of the street, you know what he’s saying. There’s not much between the lines to be read there.

"I'm blacker than you" - Fat Joe
Ironically, my oldest brother moved to Tinton Avenue around 1965, which is a block or 2 away from the Forest Houses where Joseph Antonio Cartagena grew up.
I grew up in East Harlem or some people might refer to as "Spanish Harlem," but would it be fair for me to say that I know what it is to be hispanic? And, I'm quite sure if I took his position and had this conversation with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor (who lived in the Bronxdale Houses during the time the Black Spades were emerging), she would be offended.
Trust me, I know my fair share of people that were and are involved in criminal activities, but "street cred" has a very limited value when it comes to wielding true power in this society (although there are a few at the very top, but do you really want to live that lifestyle).
I apologize for the rant (which would be directed to Fat Joe), but being black in this society is something you will never fully understand nor will you ever be.

 

[November 17]

#receipts

Day One, Crazy Legs, really?


A.J. Stein
@AJStein
·
Follow
Crazy Legs (Richard Colon) was born in 1966. If they are saying Hip Hop was created in 1972, how could Crazy Legs had been part of the SO CALLED 50/50 creation of Hip Hop between Latinos and Blacks when he was a 6 year old kindergartner #B1 #FBA #HipHopEd

 

[BKF]

That’s what gang-prison culture was all about. It was about creating your own cliques and facets and rocking with each other to kill off the competition but we see how that story usually plays out. That leaked out into the streets but with the birth of hip hop, in many ways, was the direct contradiction to that. It unified and brought those impoverished and lesser fortunate factions together to uplift.

I'm not talking about prison culture. I'm talking the gang culture on the streets right now.
Latino are either a part of white racist gangs and white racist are a part of Latino racist gangs.

 

[November 17]

Joseph Anthony Hernandez, professionally known as Tony Touch, is an American hip hop break dancer, rapper, record producer and DJ of Puerto Rican descent. Wikipedia
Born: July 2, 1969 (age 53 years), Brooklyn, New York, NY

In 1972, Tony Touch was 3 years old.

 

[Megatron X]

Receipts. Fat Joe is your typical run-of-the-mill anti-black racist Latinx POS...

I remember when this was posted on here these stupid niggaz gave him a pass. That spic can come in and get rich off of black culture and then be against any justice for you too. I’ve this dude don’t respect black people. This is what happens when when you just let any outsiders in your culture.

 

[Megatron X]

The funny thing to me is this is nothing new. Hispanics have always let niggaz know they didn’t like them. For some reason niggaz never saw it or wanted to accept it.

Even as blatant as Latinos were with their anti black racism you niggaz still talked that black brown unity shit and claim them being a part of hip hop.

 

[Megatron X]

Receipts. Fat Joe is your typical run-of-the-mill anti-black racist Latinx POS...

I see DJ Khalid in the background. That’s another thing. You see how black folk talk the people or color or minorities thing? I’ve caught on to these non whites. They want to unite as one but at the same time keep niggaz out and erase them. If they can get shit going while pushing blacks out of the scene they’re with it. That’s the actual plan.

 

[ugk]

I don't really give a shit about the diaspora wars, but lmaoooooooooo

 

[DJCandle]

"I'm blacker than you" - Fat Joe
Ironically, my oldest brother moved to Tinton Avenue around 1965, which is a block or 2 away from the Forest Houses where Joseph Antonio Cartagena grew up.
I grew up in East Harlem or some people might refer to as "Spanish Harlem," but would it be fair for me to say that I know what it is to be hispanic? And, I'm quite sure if I took his position and had this conversation with Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor (who lived on the Bronxdale Houses during the time the Black Spades were emerging), she would be offended.
Trust me, I know my fair share of people that were and are involved in criminal activities, but "street cred" has a very limited value when it comes to wielding true power in this society (although there are a few at the very top, but do you really want to live that lifestyle).
I apologize for the rant (which would be directed to Fat Joe), but being black in this society is something you will never fully understand nor will you ever be.

I respect your take on it.

 

[DJCandle]

I'm not talking about prison culture. I'm talking the gang culture on the streets right now.
Latino are either a part of white racist gangs and white racist are a part of Latino racist gangs.

I see. I was referring to gang prison life back in reference to how hip hop came about

 

[footloose]

I don't really give a shit about the diaspora wars, but lmaoooooooooo

He never denied that. He’s saying the overall culture is fba not Jamaican. Busta claimed it came from Jamaica.

 

[footloose]

Well according to the facts the inception of HIP-HOP was around 78 (unless you can provide evidence that shows mcs and rappers around before) but there is a variable that contributed to HIP HOP that dates as early as the forties.
The problem is folks are going back to the 40s and that contribution and mistaking it for the actual creation of HIP HOP that requires an MC and rapping. Now do you see the problem?

Unless you saying herc threw a back to school party at 28 years old you got your years wrong. That rapping was goin on in 73

 

[footloose]

Here we go. Italians claiming they started it too

 

[FLoss]

The funny thing to me is this is nothing new. Hispanics have always let niggaz know they didn’t like them. For some reason niggaz never saw it or wanted to accept it.

Even as blatant as Latinos were with their anti black racism you niggaz still talked that black brown unity shit and claim them being a part of hip hop.

At this point, any “negro” going along with this shit has to be either a straight up coon and/or from Caribbean/Latinx lineage. Remember, that sambo nigga Busta identifies more with port of reekins more than he does with Black Americans.

 

[Megatron X]

At this point, any “negro” going along with this shit has to be either a straight up coon and/or from Caribbean/Latinx lineage. Remember, that sambo nigga Busta identifies more with port of reekins more than he does with Black Americans.

Busta and many of these other black immigrants were sleeper cells amongst black Americans. They were just waiting for the right time. And this thing about identifying with Latinos is hilarious. Hispanics despise those black immigrants. Look at DR and how they treat Haitians.

 

[34real]

Here we go. Italians claiming they started it too

-They were there also but IT'S STILL BLACK CULTURE THAT STARTED IT AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST OTHER'S AND A FEW NEGRO'S HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SAYING "BLACK",BLACK ANYTHING SO THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO ADD ANY AND EVERTHING TO THE POT BUT THE TRUTH WHICH IS "BLACK" ,BLACK CULTURE.

-Busta Rhymes saying black have no culture is if that was the truth he wouldn't have no fucking job and he wouldn't be Busta Rhymes,say no to drugs.

-This topic about it comes from prison culture well BLACKS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE MAJORITY IN PRISON SO WHATEVER LEAKED TO THE STREETS WAS BLACK,THEM WAVE CAPS,THEM PUSHUP'S,THEM DIPS,THE TURNING MUSLIM 5% ALL OF THAT IS BLACK,BLACK CULTURE....

-Fat Joe saying "I'm blacker than most blacks" is true and that's how I look at most of those Island nigga and all of that there are white Islanders,spanards, and taino indians which most native indians died off in the americas but they lived multiplied and made it on the islands?what since does that make?it doesn't cause them Europeans coughed and they were one of the first ones to go bye bye but them BLACK SLAVES MADE IT AND IF IT WASN'T FOR THEM MOST OF THEM MOTHERFUCKERS WOULDN'T BE HERE AND I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT'S JUST ONE DROP,1%.

AND AGAIN NO ONE IS HONORING THE FOLKS EARLY ON WHO HARDLY GET MENTIONED IN HIPHIP BEFORE IT BECAUSE COMMERCIAL BUT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT LATINO'S,JAFAICANS,I-TIALIANS STARTING OR BEING CREATURES OF SOMETHING?BUT WON'T EVEN MENTION KOOL HERC UNLESS THEIR TRYING TO MAKE A POINTLESS POINT ABOUT HIM HAVING ROOTS IN JAMIACA .....BIG HIM UP,CASH APP HIM,TELL JOE,PUFFY,50,DRE,M&M TO HONOR THAT MAN IF NOT FUCK YOUR OPINION AND MAY BLACK CULTURE CONTINUE TO LIVE ON.....

 

[footloose]

Crazy legs. Grandmaster caz big daddy Kane joe casta debate on hip hop

 

[footloose]

-They were there also but IT'S STILL BLACK CULTURE THAT STARTED IT AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST OTHER'S AND A FEW NEGRO'S HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SAYING "BLACK",BLACK ANYTHING SO THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO ADD ANY AND EVERTHING TO THE POT BUT THE TRUTH WHICH IS "BLACK" ,BLACK CULTURE.

-Busta Rhymes saying black have no culture is if that was the truth he wouldn't have no fucking job and he wouldn't be Busta Rhymes,say no to drugs.

-This topic about it comes from prison culture well BLACKS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE MAJORITY IN PRISON SO WHATEVER LEAKED TO THE STREETS WAS BLACK,THEM WAVE CAPS,THEM PUSHUP'S,THEM DIPS,THE TURNING MUSLIM 5% ALL OF THAT IS BLACK,BLACK CULTURE....

-Fat Joe saying "I'm blacker than most blacks" is true and that's how I look at most of those Island nigga and all of that there are white Islanders,spanards, and taino indians which most native indians died off in the americas but they lived multiplied and made it on the islands?what since does that make?it doesn't cause them Europeans coughed and they were one of the first ones to go bye bye but them BLACK SLAVES MADE IT AND IF IT WASN'T FOR THEM MOST OF THEM MOTHERFUCKERS WOULDN'T BE HERE AND I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT'S JUST ONE DROP,1%.

AND AGAIN NO ONE IS HONORING THE FOLKS EARLY ON WHO HARDLY GET MENTIONED IN HIPHIP BEFORE IT BECAUSE COMMERCIAL BUT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT LATINO'S,JAFAICANS,I-TIALIANS STARTING OR BEING CREATURES OF SOMETHING?BUT WON'T EVEN MENTION KOOL HERC UNLESS THEIR TRYING TO MAKE A POINTLESS POINT ABOUT HIM HAVING ROOTS IN JAMIACA .....BIG HIM UP,CASH APP HIM,TELL JOE,PUFFY,50,DRE,M&M TO HONOR THAT MAN IF NOT FUCK YOUR OPINION AND MAY BLACK CULTURE CONTINUE TO LIVE ON.....

There where. . They bombed the trains. But was they at events

 

[BKF]

Crazy legs. Grandmaster caz big daddy Kane joe casta debate on hip hop

The context of this conversation is all twisted and of course you have black folk that want to accommodate others over their own people.
As I've said before. Black folk are the true Americans because we believe in and practice multiculturalism. Whiles others pretend to believe in and practice it. Instead they actually believe in and practice monoculture.
Black folk setting the record straight is considered divisive but others trying to write us out of our own history is not??

 

[footloose]

The context of this conversation is all twisted and of course you have black folk that want accommodate others over their own people.
As I've said before. Black folk are the true Americans because we believe and practice multiculturalism. Whiles other pretend to believe in and practice it. Instead they actually believe in and practice monoculture.
Black folk setting the record straight is considered divisive but others trying to write us out of out own history is not??

Kane kept it 100 at the 42:00

 

[November 17]

Kane kept it 100 at the 42:00

I appreciate what Big Daddy Kane stated at 48:45, and he addressed the fact that the essential elements of hip-hop/rap existed well before any of the members on that panel were involved in that musical genre. This is a point that I have been trying to expound on throughout this thread by providing videos of individuals who were present from the beginnings dated back to the early 1970's (perhaps 1971).

51. Charlie Chase of the Cold Crush Brothers at Norman Thomas High School

https://digital.library.cornell.edu...age=6&q=norman+thomas&search_field=all_fields



This photo was taken by Joseph Conzo, Jr. in 1981 at Norman Thomas High School and I provided a link to his page (his photos are in a digital library at Cornell University).

I attended Norman Thomas High School from September 1977 - June 1980 (I had also featured this photograph in an early thread and provided a
photo of the "Treacherous Three," whose members included "Special K," "LA Sunshine," and "Kool Moe Dee."



This is a photo of my yearbook. I only posted it to provide some proof, but what I am trying to point out (and this is what Big Daddy Kane was saying) is that although I was around at the time there are a few things that should be taken into consideration. I was too young to participate or go to any of the parties back in 1971 (I did attend some outdoor parties maybe around 1975, 1976, but that was obviously later on). Furthermore, none of the members of this panel were able to attend any parties (indoor or maybe a little outdoor until it got dark outside) at that time either.

 

[November 17]

The context of this conversation is all twisted and of course you have black folk that want accommodate others over their own people.
As I've said before. Black folk are the true Americans because we believe and practice multiculturalism. Whiles other pretend to believe in and practice it. Instead they actually believe in and practice monoculture.
Black folk setting the record straight is considered divisive but others trying to write us out of out own history is not??

I watched portions of this video, and one thing I found interesting is that Richard Colon (born January 1, 1966) aka "Crazy Legs," as well as Joseph Conzo, Jr. (not sure of his age, but they did state on a website that he graduated from High School in 1980, that would make him around 59 or 60 years old) expressed their dismay over the topic being divisive. Apparently, they don't realize that the topic came up because Joseph Antonio Cartagena (born August 19, 1970) and Eric Fernando Narciandi (born May 28, 1975) aka DJ EFN decided to broach the topic during a filming of "Drink Champs." In addition, Joseph Anthony Hernandez (born July 2, 1969) aka "Tony Touch" had a video posted from an interview he did with TMZ, where he stated that the "Rock Steady Crew," and other where involved in hip-hop/rap from "Day One."

However, the problem comes into play when you provide testimonals that support your position, and refute their arguments. This is slightly off topic, but you'll get what I am saying. I don't know if you watch NBA basketball, but the Golden State Warriors won the NBA title in June 2022. Now the media made a big deal of Juan Toscano-Anderson being the first player of Mexican descent to win an NBA championship. However , in 1989 the Detroit Piston won the NBA Championship and Mark Aguirre was a member of that team. Mark Aguirre is actually the 1st Mexican-American basketball player to win an NBA title.

https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19920322&slug=1482372

https://showbizcorner.com/is-mark-aguirre-mexican-ethnicity-of-american-former-basketball-player

Did mainstream media ever bother to correct this error? They didn't, they just continued on with the lie (sound familiar).


Oh, Curtis Brown (born April 18, 1961) aka "Grandmaster Kaz," and James Whipper II (dob unknown) aka "Prince Whipper Whip." "Prince Whipper Whip" was a member of Grandwizard Theodore & the Fantastic Five, but their active years started in 1979?
I included their dates of birth because if hip-hop/rap started in the early 1970's, every member on that panel was too young to participate. Grandmaster Kaz appears to be one of the oldest, but would he be at a club or outside playing music in the park in 1971 or 1972? He would only be 10 or 11 at the time. So could we really call any of this panel... Pioneers?

Oh, in reference to Joe Conzo, Jr., I will give him credit for taking some great photographs, but he admits that he didn't start taking photos until around 1978 and most of his photos of parties are from 1981 and up.



link to his collection:

norman thomas / Collection: Joe Conzo Jr. Archive - Cornell University Library Digital Collections Search Results

Digitized content from the collections of Cornell University Library

digital.library.cornell.edu

 

[November 17]

Kane kept it 100 at the 42:00

 

[footloose]

That’s old. Kane the elder was responding to that remark.

 

[Bad Andy]

I appreciate what Big Daddy Kane stated at 48:45, and he addressed the fact that the essential elements of hip-hop/rap existed well before any of the members on that panel were involved in that musical genre. This is a point that I have been trying to expound on throughout this thread by providing videos of individuals who were present from the beginnings dated back to the early 1970's (perhaps 1971).

51. Charlie Chase of the Cold Crush Brothers at Norman Thomas High School

https://digital.library.cornell.edu...age=6&q=norman+thomas&search_field=all_fields



This photo was taken by Joseph Conzo, Jr. in 1981 at Norman Thomas High School and I provided a link to his page (his photos are in a digital library at Cornell University).

I attended Norman Thomas High School from September 1977 - June 1980 (I had also featured this photograph in an early thread and provided a
photo of the "Treacherous Three," whose members included "Special K," "LA Sunshine," and "Kool Moe Dee."



This is a photo of my yearbook. I only posted it to provide some proof, but what I am trying to point out (and this is what Big Daddy Kane was saying) is that although I was around at the time there are a few things that should be taken into consideration. I was too young to participate or go to any of the parties back in 1971 (I did attend some outdoor parties maybe around 1975, 1976, but that was obviously later on). Furthermore, none of the members of this panel were able to attend any parties (indoor or maybe a little outdoor until it got dark outside) at that time either.

You mention KMD and Treacherous 3 another cat down with them was DJ Easy Lee. I know DJ Easy Lee and in conversation he considers himself 1st Generation Hip Hop. He was telling me about an incident when he recently ran into MC Shan and referred to him as second Generation Hip Hop. I was born in 72 so I wasn’t outside till the Run DMC Rockbox era which DJ Easy Lee would consider to be second generation. I was still too young to go to clubs but I did go to park parties. I never attended the Budweiser Superfest and stuff like that.

You and @DJCandle give the best narrative as to who was outside and what you saw in the streets growing up. Most cats posting in here just talking just to talk. Fat Joe and DJ EFN over embellished their conversation and contributions because they are still in the culture. I tell DJ Easy Lee all the time to run a YouTube channel to keep his history and legacy alive. He has moved on from Hip Hop. He is a Sound and video engineer for most of these 80’s artists. The on us is on them to tell the stories, like GMF said he could only give you 1/3 of the story. Him, Bam and Herc could give the whole story.

 

[footloose]

 

[footloose]

I appreciate what Big Daddy Kane stated at 48:45, and he addressed the fact that the essential elements of hip-hop/rap existed well before any of the members on that panel were involved in that musical genre. This is a point that I have been trying to expound on throughout this thread by providing videos of individuals who were present from the beginnings dated back to the early 1970's (perhaps 1971).

51. Charlie Chase of the Cold Crush Brothers at Norman Thomas High School

https://digital.library.cornell.edu...age=6&q=norman+thomas&search_field=all_fields



This photo was taken by Joseph Conzo, Jr. in 1981 at Norman Thomas High School and I provided a link to his page (his photos are in a digital library at Cornell University).

I attended Norman Thomas High School from September 1977 - June 1980 (I had also featured this photograph in an early thread and provided a
photo of the "Treacherous Three," whose members included "Special K," "LA Sunshine," and "Kool Moe Dee."



This is a photo of my yearbook. I only posted it to provide some proof, but what I am trying to point out (and this is what Big Daddy Kane was saying) is that although I was around at the time there are a few things that should be taken into consideration. I was too young to participate or go to any of the parties back in 1971 (I did attend some outdoor parties maybe around 1975, 1976, but that was obviously later on). Furthermore, none of the members of this panel were able to attend any parties (indoor or maybe a little outdoor until it got dark outside) at that time either.

They contributed. Not created.

 

[footloose]

 

[older version]

Posting editorials ain't proving shit breh
I need them receipts son

This post ended this thread. FBAs rapped in the 1940s maybe 1930s.
Too many people believe KRS one, but his style is a branch of hip hop, not the foundation

 

[BKF]

Kane kept it 100 at the 42:00

Kane didn't keep it a hundred because he didn't flatly put it out their that PRs were not there from the beginning as Caz first said (even though he's back pedaling now).

 

[BKF]

I appreciate what Big Daddy Kane stated at 48:45, and he addressed the fact that the essential elements of hip-hop/rap existed well before any of the members on that panel were involved in that musical genre. This is a point that I have been trying to expound on throughout this thread by providing videos of individuals who were present from the beginnings dated back to the early 1970's (perhaps 1971).

51. Charlie Chase of the Cold Crush Brothers at Norman Thomas High School

https://digital.library.cornell.edu...age=6&q=norman+thomas&search_field=all_fields



This photo was taken by Joseph Conzo, Jr. in 1981 at Norman Thomas High School and I provided a link to his page (his photos are in a digital library at Cornell University).

I attended Norman Thomas High School from September 1977 - June 1980 (I had also featured this photograph in an early thread and provided a
photo of the "Treacherous Three," whose members included "Special K," "LA Sunshine," and "Kool Moe Dee."



This is a photo of my yearbook. I only posted it to provide some proof, but what I am trying to point out (and this is what Big Daddy Kane was saying) is that although I was around at the time there are a few things that should be taken into consideration. I was too young to participate or go to any of the parties back in 1971 (I did attend some outdoor parties maybe around 1975, 1976, but that was obviously later on). Furthermore, none of the members of this panel were able to attend any parties (indoor or maybe a little outdoor until it got dark outside) at that time either.

That's the whole problem. They're talking about the very late 70's going into the 80's. As has been said by those that were the actual creators of Hip Hop. Hip Hop did not start in 1979.


Also what those PRs on the panel fail to mention is that there have been plenty if people making the claim that Carribeans (JJamaicans, Barbadian, etc...) and Puerto Ricans created Hip Hop.