Discussion: Falcon and The Winter Soldier UPDATE: Captain America 4 Brave New World NEW TRAILER!!!
- Thread starter playahaitian
- Start date
Gotta say I like Zemo's character alot more then I thought I would.
My bet is on the bearded cac who convinced Falcon to give up the shield.
Zemo's my runner up.
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THIS is going to be my next Fuckin' Winter Coat.
DAMN, ZEMO!!!
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Thank You for sharing!
Her story here was deep and sadly made me think of @Notorious P.I.M.P.
5:40 mark she talks about dealing with Air Force therapist.
Thread by @GeeDee215 on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App
A quick thing about Isaiah on The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
About a decade ago, I interviewed Robert Morales, who invented that character for Marvel in 2001. The result was "Truth: Red, White, And Black" which recast the story of Captain America's origins as part of a Tuskegee Syphillis Study-like plot.
In Robert's story, the US rounded up hundreds of Black GIs in a segregated battalion during WWII to use as guinea pigs. The US is trying to re-create the procedure used to turn Steve Rogers into Cap.
They get it wrong — a lot. Almost all of the Black men they round up die.
Only five of the 300 Black men subjected to the super-soldier experiments survive the process; of that five, Isaiah is the only Black super-soldier who survives the war, and he is thrown in prison for decades.
"It was so depressing I didn't think they would approve it," Robert told me. ""But it was depressingly realistic. And *likely.*"
Robert died in 2013. But his revision of the Cap story was part of a wider on-page reckoning w/ the whiteness of the stories in the mainline MCU/DCU.
The Kents of Smallville, as one example, were reimagined as radical abolitionists — Free-Staters who settled in Kansas to oppose the state from becoming a slave state. Clark Kent, then, would be directly downstream from the principles of his forebears.
It's a very liberal inclination — positioning the Kents on the side of justice for a century-plus before the space-ship landed on their farm.
but it skips over some bigger, more important question about race and power: like how is it that whiteness was literally so universal that both a Kansan *and* a Kryptonian might possess it?
Black mainline comics writers kept playing with these premises. The legendary Dwayne McDuffie, wrote his Black superman analogue Icon as having become Black upon imprinting on the enslaved Black woman in the American south who found and adopted it.*
*why this character was still -male- is...yeah.
anyway, a lot of mainstream superheroes, in their reimaginings, have to nod to the oppression in this country. (There was an aside in one of the Nolan Batman jawns that positioned the Batcave as originally a hideout the Waynes used for fugitives on the Underground Railroad.)
And i think that speaks to how deeply embedded the whiteness of these characters is.
The Green Lantern's power ring had to scan the earth for the bravest person in a world of billions of people and...decided that its rightful bearer was a white fighter pilot from the Midwest?
anyway, more later!
okay, so young Kal-El rocketed across the cosmos as a baby in a spaceship before crash-landing in a field in Kansas. He was Kryptonian but also, somehow, a white boy. Which brings us back to this question upthread: whiteness could literally span the cosmos?
in those Silver Age days, that's literally how they explained it: he could be a white American because there were white Kryptonians.
This was underscored by the fact that they created distinctly *Black* Kryptonians — who lived in a place called Vathlo Island.
Vathlo Island "retained its independence throughout history and did not join the planetary federation, though good relations were maintained."
Kryptonian Wakanda, I guess.
(Yes, I know i'm mixing universes to make that metaphor work. calm down, nerds.)
Not long after that first (and one of the only) references to Vathlo Island in 1971, Neal Adams, a white artist at DC, asked his editor a q: what happens if Hal Jordan — the Green Lantern — dies? The editor told him that there would then be a backup Lantern.
The backup Green Lantern they had in mind was a white gym teacher who used to play Big 10 football.
Again: the bravest person in the world was a white USian dude.
Adams eventually pushed back, and along w/ Dennis O'Neil, created a Black character to take over the GL mantle: an ex-Marine named John Stewart.
(Adams told me his editor originally wanted to name the character Lincoln Washington, but he talked him out of it. Phew.)
Again, y'all see the problems here — the bravest person in the world is still a male, a USian and a member of the US, military? — but as representation went, Stewart was better than a lot of the other Black superheroes that DC tried their hands at.
In the 70s, DC created Black Lightning (who was black and electrical), Black Goliath (black and a giant), and Nubia ( black...and Wonder Woman). And at Marvel there was Luke Cage, who, in his earliest pre-dab incarnations, was a jive-talking powerhouse in butterfly collars.
Anyway, the upshot here is that John Stewart taking over the Green Lantern mantle...stuck with Dwayne McDuffie, who created the Milestone comics imprint under DC in the 1990s, featuring all characters of color.
(Milestone's Superman analogue, Icon, mentioned upthread, became a way to embody and critique a certain kind of ascendent respectability politics; he was, after all, essentially a Black cop. Milestone was already playing with chewier ideas around race than mainline DC.)
McDuffie would eventually become a the principal player in the DC Animated Universe. When they were creating the Justice League animated series, underlined that there way that the show could have a team in which everyone — even the aliens Kal-El and Hawkgirl! — were white.
so instead of Hal Jordan, the original Green Lantern, taking his traditional place as at the Justice League table , the animated series launched with John Stewart in that role.
The show debuted in 2001 and became a huge hit. McDuffie often pointed out that, as a result, a generation of younger fans who were introduced to the character through the animated series had only ever known a Black Green Lantern.
(There were a lot of reasons the 2011 Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie failed, and the "who tf is THIS guy?" factor probably played some role in it.)
There's a lot more, obviously. But some of these IPs — Batman and Superman and Captain America, in particular — are 80+ years old. They're holdovers from a pre-Civil Rights Act America, a pre-Stonewall America, etc. They represent a bunch of stuff that is ever harder to update.
And it will be interesting to watch how that chafes against the the fact that they are more valuable and popular than they've ever been. Could a critique of the premises of the Cap origin story, like Robert Morales', even happen today?
*well, Martian Manhunter wasn't white. he was green. But they woulda had a green Martian before they had a brown earthling.
All them ninjas was living for free in ultra plush apartments. You tell me sam couldn't do no book tour or guest vocals on a track?
But them ninjas used to get stipends. You see Rhodey aint in no soup line. Everybody on Caps side went broke. Even Banner kept getting paid.
Black Widow, Vision all them got broke off. Spiderman too.
I guess Wanda took a rental car to Westview. Though I wonder if her parents had life insurance she and Pietro got when they came of age.
FIRE!
Plus that Cameo at the end! MCU building this shit.
I was so jacked when I saw that ending!!!!! I have been waiting for them to involve that character...That character to me has such a presence....I am so giddy right now.......
LOL... Looks like I wasn't the only one that thought this
‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier': Could Sharon Carter Be the Power Broker?
It’s a distinct possibility
(This article contains spoilers for the Marvel Disney+ series “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” through the third episode)
It was interesting to realize that at the end of the third episode “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier,” it’s still extremely unclear what the overall plot is. That’s not a bad thing — Sam and Bucky have a mystery they’re trying to solve. And that mystery has expanded greatly with the introduction of a new player: The Power Broker.
The gist of the main story thread thus far on “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” is that there’s an anarchist-style group called the Flag Smashers who are up to no good — they want to return the world to the way it was after Thanos snapped half the universe out of existence. How they mean to accomplish that is unknown, but it will presumably involve mass murder.
The Flag Smashers are also full of folks who have taken the super soldier serum and can beat up just about anyone. And they’ve got somebody else on their tale as well: Somebody they call the Power Broker, whose identity is unknown as of now.
This is an interesting dynamic, particularly with regards to the Power Broker since we have no idea if this person is good or bad. We really just know one thing about them, in fact — that they are the source of the Flag Smasher’s powers.
So in the Marvel Comics, the Power Broker is a guy named Curtiss Jackson, and he’s a dude who basically sells superpowers to people. That trait is by far his most relevant to “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.” This week, in the third episode, it was confirmed that the Power Broker is the one responsible for the creation of this new super soldier serum that was derived from Isaiah Bradley’s blood. But who could this be?
There’s really no reason to assume that the Power Broker is going to be the same person on “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” that he is in the comics. This is a pretty obscure character, and he’s actually been dead in the comics for a while and hasn’t had a meaningful role to play in any stories in decades. So the Power Broker could be anyone, and not necessarily Curtiss Jackson.
Beyond the comics, there aren’t many clues to go on. The name first comes up at the end of episode 2 as the Flag Smashers are loading their latest haul of medical supplies onto a small plane — and one of them gets a call that the Power Broker’s people are there. They scramble to load up as much as they can but are forced to leave some behind as they take off, barely escaping.
Though one of them doesn’t, with the Power Broker’s men shooting him as he stalled for time. But they didn’t shoot until this superpowered terrorist charged at them. So the Power Broker may not be feeling overtly murderous.
In any case, the Power Broker is mad at the Flag Smashers because they stole the serum, and he or she wants it back.
So there aren’t a lot of good candidates. Zemo would have been the most obvious candidate, just because he’s an existing villain. But that doesn’t really jive with his whole deal. Back in “Civil War” he wanted to learn about the other Winter Soldiers — others who had been subjected to some version of the serum — just so he could kill them. Zemo doesn’t like super-powered people, and now he’s helping out our heroes specifically because he wants to destroy this new serum.
Plus, he’s been locked up since the last time we saw him, so he’s got an alibi.
So with him out of the way, there are two main candidates as I see it.
The first, and less likely I think, is Batroc the Leaper. He’s the guy who was leading the crew that Sam fought on the airplane in the opening sequence of “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” premiere, and a returning minor character from “Captain America: The Winter Soldier.” His whole deal in that aerial mission last week is still unclear, so he’s a prime candidate for the Power Broker.
But I think it’s more likely that he just works for the Power Broker. I think the real Power Broker is somebody we know better than we know Batroc, and who only just showed up on “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” this week: Sharon Carter.
While there is definitely a bit of a villainous air when people say that title aloud, it’s important to remember that it was the Flag Smashers — clear antagonists after they blew up a building this week — who were afraid of them. The Power Broker is definitely an independent third party, and might not actually be a bad guy — and I certainly don’t think Sharon will be a bad guy.
Sharon as the Power Broker makes sense to me in light of, well, everything we’ve learned about what happened with her since we saw her last in “Civil War.” She was branded a traitor like everyone else on #TeamCap, but I guess nobody ever thought to check up on her after the Avengers reunited in “Infinity War.”
“Avengers: Endgame” showed us that the Avengers at least believed that Sharon was snapped away — she was one of the faces on the screens at Avengers HQ listing off the missing folks — which would mean she’s accomplished a lot in the months since the Hulk snapped everybody back into existence. So if she can build up some kind of black market art organization, then she’s probably capable of plenty more.
That enterprise, and her massive home, and her armed guards are all potential clues — it wouldn’t be shocking for somebody who has “broker” in their name to have an illicit art business. And you absolutely would expect a crime boss to have an extremely nice house with a bunch of guards.
If it’s not Sharon, then surely it would have to be a character we know already either from earlier in this series or a previous MCU movie. At this stage it would be strange to introduce somebody completely new, since we’ve only got three episodes of “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” left to go.
'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier': Could Sharon Carter Be the Power Broker?
It's a distinct possibility
www.thewrap.com
Everybody talking about Zemo is the Power Broker, Sharon Carter is the Power Broker, General Ross is the Power Broker. My money is on Patch!!!
Thank You for sharing!
Her story here was deep and sadly made me think of @Notorious P.I.M.P.
5:40 mark she talks about dealing with Air Force therapist.
Thread by @GeeDee215 on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App
A quick thing about Isaiah on The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.
About a decade ago, I interviewed Robert Morales, who invented that character for Marvel in 2001. The result was "Truth: Red, White, And Black" which recast the story of Captain America's origins as part of a Tuskegee Syphillis Study-like plot.
In Robert's story, the US rounded up hundreds of Black GIs in a segregated battalion during WWII to use as guinea pigs. The US is trying to re-create the procedure used to turn Steve Rogers into Cap.
They get it wrong — a lot. Almost all of the Black men they round up die.
Only five of the 300 Black men subjected to the super-soldier experiments survive the process; of that five, Isaiah is the only Black super-soldier who survives the war, and he is thrown in prison for decades.
"It was so depressing I didn't think they would approve it," Robert told me. ""But it was depressingly realistic. And *likely.*"
Robert died in 2013. But his revision of the Cap story was part of a wider on-page reckoning w/ the whiteness of the stories in the mainline MCU/DCU.
The Kents of Smallville, as one example, were reimagined as radical abolitionists — Free-Staters who settled in Kansas to oppose the state from becoming a slave state. Clark Kent, then, would be directly downstream from the principles of his forebears.
It's a very liberal inclination — positioning the Kents on the side of justice for a century-plus before the space-ship landed on their farm.
but it skips over some bigger, more important question about race and power: like how is it that whiteness was literally so universal that both a Kansan *and* a Kryptonian might possess it?
Black mainline comics writers kept playing with these premises. The legendary Dwayne McDuffie, wrote his Black superman analogue Icon as having become Black upon imprinting on the enslaved Black woman in the American south who found and adopted it.*
*why this character was still -male- is...yeah.
anyway, a lot of mainstream superheroes, in their reimaginings, have to nod to the oppression in this country. (There was an aside in one of the Nolan Batman jawns that positioned the Batcave as originally a hideout the Waynes used for fugitives on the Underground Railroad.)
And i think that speaks to how deeply embedded the whiteness of these characters is.
The Green Lantern's power ring had to scan the earth for the bravest person in a world of billions of people and...decided that its rightful bearer was a white fighter pilot from the Midwest?
anyway, more later!
okay, so young Kal-El rocketed across the cosmos as a baby in a spaceship before crash-landing in a field in Kansas. He was Kryptonian but also, somehow, a white boy. Which brings us back to this question upthread: whiteness could literally span the cosmos?
in those Silver Age days, that's literally how they explained it: he could be a white American because there were white Kryptonians.
This was underscored by the fact that they created distinctly *Black* Kryptonians — who lived in a place called Vathlo Island.
Vathlo Island "retained its independence throughout history and did not join the planetary federation, though good relations were maintained."
Kryptonian Wakanda, I guess.
(Yes, I know i'm mixing universes to make that metaphor work. calm down, nerds.)
Not long after that first (and one of the only) references to Vathlo Island in 1971, Neal Adams, a white artist at DC, asked his editor a q: what happens if Hal Jordan — the Green Lantern — dies? The editor told him that there would then be a backup Lantern.
The backup Green Lantern they had in mind was a white gym teacher who used to play Big 10 football.
Again: the bravest person in the world was a white USian dude.
Adams eventually pushed back, and along w/ Dennis O'Neil, created a Black character to take over the GL mantle: an ex-Marine named John Stewart.
(Adams told me his editor originally wanted to name the character Lincoln Washington, but he talked him out of it. Phew.)
Again, y'all see the problems here — the bravest person in the world is still a male, a USian and a member of the US, military? — but as representation went, Stewart was better than a lot of the other Black superheroes that DC tried their hands at.
In the 70s, DC created Black Lightning (who was black and electrical), Black Goliath (black and a giant), and Nubia ( black...and Wonder Woman). And at Marvel there was Luke Cage, who, in his earliest pre-dab incarnations, was a jive-talking powerhouse in butterfly collars.
Anyway, the upshot here is that John Stewart taking over the Green Lantern mantle...stuck with Dwayne McDuffie, who created the Milestone comics imprint under DC in the 1990s, featuring all characters of color.
(Milestone's Superman analogue, Icon, mentioned upthread, became a way to embody and critique a certain kind of ascendent respectability politics; he was, after all, essentially a Black cop. Milestone was already playing with chewier ideas around race than mainline DC.)
McDuffie would eventually become a the principal player in the DC Animated Universe. When they were creating the Justice League animated series, underlined that there way that the show could have a team in which everyone — even the aliens Kal-El and Hawkgirl! — were white.
so instead of Hal Jordan, the original Green Lantern, taking his traditional place as at the Justice League table , the animated series launched with John Stewart in that role.
The show debuted in 2001 and became a huge hit. McDuffie often pointed out that, as a result, a generation of younger fans who were introduced to the character through the animated series had only ever known a Black Green Lantern.
(There were a lot of reasons the 2011 Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie failed, and the "who tf is THIS guy?" factor probably played some role in it.)
There's a lot more, obviously. But some of these IPs — Batman and Superman and Captain America, in particular — are 80+ years old. They're holdovers from a pre-Civil Rights Act America, a pre-Stonewall America, etc. They represent a bunch of stuff that is ever harder to update.
And it will be interesting to watch how that chafes against the the fact that they are more valuable and popular than they've ever been. Could a critique of the premises of the Cap origin story, like Robert Morales', even happen today?
*well, Martian Manhunter wasn't white. he was green. But they woulda had a green Martian before they had a brown earthling.
This is why I love this board. You got people like @darth frosty who do things like this because it needs to be done
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How was Zemo able to hid his loot from the world governments? Wouldn't his assets be frozen if it was public knowledge he was rich? It explains how he was able to afford the anti-Avengers op and the EMP. Funny that with his wealth, he actually chose to geg his hands dirty in the Sokovian military doing wet works.
Ive re-watch all of the MCU movies and I find myself picking up clues or hints or subtle shit all the time. In Civil War, Natasha says to Bucky "you could at least recognize me" during their fight scene. I could never figure out why she said that; and Marvel does subtle shit like this all the time. Nothing is random with them. Now I know why she said it. Marvel are fucking geniuses and nothing can touch them at this point!!In the comics the Black Widow OPS and the Winter Solider: Project were part of the Department X, Soviet's Super Solider Program...
MCU changed Bucky origins to Hydra making him a Super Solider...
The MCU never touched on the Super Solider aspect of Black Widow... Maybe the Black Widow will...
Natasha was biochemically enhanced through the Black Widow Ops Program when she was an infant. She received the Red Room's version of the Super-Soldier Serum[121] that was created by Dr. Lyudmila Kudrin to enhance her immune system, bodily condition, and longevity.
Department X (Earth-616)
9 appearance(s) of Department X (Earth-616) 7 minor appearance(s) of Department X (Earth-616) 10 mention(s) of Department X (Earth-616) 1 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Department X (Earth-616) 1 image(s) of Department X (Earth-616) 3 member(s) of Department X (Earth-616)marvel.fandom.com
Natalia Romanova (Earth-616)
Natalia Alianovna Romanova (English: Natasha Romanoff; Russian: Наталья "Наташа" Альяновна Романова) a.k.a. the Black Widow (Russian: Чёрная вдова) was a former Russian KGB agent.[28] She was trained by the "Red Room" as part of the Black Widow Ops Program to be the ultimate "Super-Spy".[29] She...
List of World Government's Super Soldier Programs
Super-Soldier Programs
'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' breaks Disney+ viewing record
'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' has broken the previously held viewing records on Disney+ on its opening weekend from March 19-22www.nme.com
‘The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’ breaks Disney+ viewing record
Although no viewing figures were released
ByElla Kemp
23rd March 2021
'The Falcon and The Winter Soldier' CREDIT: Marvel/Disney
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier has become the most-watched series premiere on Disney+, the streaming platform has confirmed.
Revealing data from the Marvel show’s opening weekend (March 19-22), Disney+ confirmed Falcon has joined WandaVision and The Mandalorian as the three most-watched Disney+ Original series on opening weekends.
The streamer kept specific viewing figures under wraps across all three shows.
SambaTV, who collect data from terrestrial TVs, have said that 1.7million households watched The Falcon and The Winter Soldier last weekend, versus 1.6million viewers who tuned in to the premiere of WandaVision on opening weekend, per Deadline.
Will Sam Wilson take up the Captain America mantle? CREDIT: Marvel Studios
Meanwhile, one of the show’s stars Sebastian Stan, who plays Bucky Barnes/The Winter Soldier, recently revealed he struggled to pay rent after his first Marvel appearance in Captain America: The First Avenger.
“In 2011, after the first Captain America came out, about a month later I had a call from my business manager telling me I had a month left to figure out how I was going to pay my rent,” he said.
“So, perception is always interesting, isn’t it? Nobody ever knows what the fuck is really happening.”
In a four-star first-look review of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, NME wrote: “Sharp, funny, and packing some awesome action scenes with a whole lot of character potential, The Falcon And The Winter Soldier is off to a flying start.”
Disney+ will be releasing another Marvel series in a few months time, as Loki is set to premiere on June 11. Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel will follow later in 2021.
Disney plus is probably the best thing that has happened for the MCU; and therefore its the best thing that has happened for us!! (As comic heads and movie or entertainment enthusiasts)...
The guy playing Isiah needs to play every angry old black man from now on in every movie lol
Dude NAILED that shit!!!
He is that Uncle/cousin/father/Grandpa/neighbor on the block that we all knew.
Word is he done been thru some thangs and as long as you dont bring those thangs up (modern day phrase triggers) its all good.
Isiah (Carl Lumbly) and Danny Glover are good friends and both had their feature film debut in the 1979 Escape from Alcatraz with Clint Eastwood
Glover was the first one Eastwood tried to give a book to once he left the library, and Lumbly was introduced at the 25:00 mark when Eastwood tried to go up the stairs to sit with English (Paul Benjamin)
She mentioned in that same movie that she was assigned to protect a scientist who was on Hydra, thus Winter Soldier's hit list. Bucky shot Nat. That's why she said she can't wear two piece bathing suits.
This morherfucker got less powers than Batman, but we better stay the hell out of his way
I hate to be this guy, but are 20 potential super-soldiers still a threat when you have a Hulk(gimp armed and all), War Machine/Iron Patriot , and Spider-Man? 2 out of those 3 could mop up the floor with them. I left out the magic weilders, New Asgardian and Wakanda defenders, and Ant-Man and the Wasp.