Jaleel White on feeling left out in the legacy of Black entertainment, saying, “If it’s not a hood story, it’s not a Black story,”

tallblacknyc

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Yeah, that shit was AWFUL! :lol:

Ray Ray had that boy stealing radios for $20 with a fucked up bowl cut.

I always imagined it was these negroes that cut his hair. It made it funnier to me.

vlcsnap-00188.png
Nig got his asswhipped during that slapboxing session by the shorter kid..I always enjoyed that scene just off that alone.. like fuck up this corny ass Carlton banks thug wannabe..hell the kid in the hat or the kid with the bball played a more convincing role of potential young gang members..nobody in that director chair said you know what I think we need to go in a diff route 1 of these kids gonna be jayrock as for you Carlton banks you just gonna be in this scene getting smacked up and you have zero speaking parts.. Carlton banks almost single-handedly ruined that movie for me…not once could I take his character serious which threw the movie off
 

tallblacknyc

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I saw Leprechaun whatever number that was in the Hood with Ice T and Laz Alonzo a couple of months for the first time :smh:
The only leprechaun movie where this nig wins fuck that movie just off that alone.. I remember seeing that garbage yrsssss ago when it premiered on hbo.. hbo use to do this b movie push late night on fridays decades ago.. leprechaun in the hood was 1 of them.. for whatever reason I watched it and yeah it was bad
 

playahaitian

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Yeah, when did Independence Day come out?

I think that's what made Will a star and separated the two.

Yall forgetting what NBC prime time meant back then

And Will had hits already.

Girls ain't nothing but trouble was 86
Then parents don't understand
Grammy in 89
The show in 90
Summertime in 91
He had got critical acclaim for six degrees
THEN bad boys in 95

What yall talking about disrespecting Will? Will put ln SERIOUS work

And so did Martin with Def Jam, the concert and all the supporting roles

Martin was on FIRE too.

That's why the team up was perfect.

Martin had MORE film experience but saying he was BIGGER than Will is a stretch.

We ain't talking 'hood" (i see you Jaleel) we talking national
 
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tallblacknyc

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Yall forgetting what NBC prime time meant back then

And Will had hits already.

Girls ain't nothing but trouble was 86
Then parents don't understand
Grammy in 89
The show in 90
Summertime in 91
He had got critical acclaim for six degrees
THEN bad boys in 95

What yall talking about disrespecting Will? Will put ln SERIOUS work

And so did Martin with Def Jam, the concert and all the supporting roles

Martin was in FIRE too.

That's why the team up was perfect.

Martin had MORE film experience but saying he was BIGGER than Will is a stretch.

We ain't talking 'hood" (i see you Jaleel) we talking national
How dare you mention Martin and don’t bring up his role as bilah… the bad breath dj that got disrespect by chicks and taking advantage of by play.. foul moth funny nig.. house party legendary… than he ended up getting his 30 min one night stand on hbo( where he did his infamous the fly routine), than of course def jam
 

tallblacknyc

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How dare you mention Martin and don’t bring up his role as bilah… the bad breath dj that got disrespect by chicks and taking advantage of by play.. foul moth funny nig.. house party legendary… than he ended up getting his 30 min one night stand on hbo( where he did his infamous the fly routine), than of course def jam
 

playahaitian

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My daughter doesn’t watch movies or sitcoms. She prefer reality TV shows or some YouTube streamer.

I barely watch shows myself now of days. Basketball is about the only thing I have on and it’s background noise while I work.

^^^^
My kids don't consume media in a way I even understand so completely understand. I still don't get watching someone else play a video game.

I still listen to podcasts but I love movies and TV. That's my decompress
 

xxxbishopxxx

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Nah. Even the writer knows he over stating that. This pre internet Will was the guy and so was Martin.

Martin was in those movies but those were NOT HIS MOVIES. Fresh Prince was on prime time NBC. Rappers were jealous yeah but that was the no pop era. That don't mean Will didn't have a huge crossover audience with his music.

If he didn't? He wouldn't have been offered the show and then the movie.

Summertime and Fresh Prince out at the sometime.

And remember like the article said less than 2 years later Will become a super duper star.

if you want to say Martin for a brief moment was bigger than Will?

I guess I'm sure I can prove the opposite but it don't matter in the long run.

They were both on hit shows and stars.
To be clear, I'm not hating on Will. However, people seem to forget how quickly he fell off as a rapper, before he blew up in Hollywood. Black folk weren't feeling his pop friendly rap songs and weren't too happy about them being the first rap group to win a grammy. White folk were moving on to something new.

I'm old enough to remember when it was a major no-no for rap artist to have cross over appeal.. Lol.

The Hollywood blow up, totally revamped his career trajectory and actually revitalized his music career.
 

playahaitian

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To be clear, I'm not hating on Will. However, people seem to forget how quickly he fell off as a rapper, before he blew up in Hollywood. Black folk weren't feeling his pop friendly rap songs and weren't too happy about them being the first rap group to win a grammy. White folk were moving on to something new.

I'm old enough to remember when it was a major no-no for rap artist to have cross over appeal.. Lol.

The Hollywood blow up, totally revamped his career trajectory and actually revitalized his music career.

Agreed
 

HNIC

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Staff member
I get what he’s though and you’re right they weren’t hood shows, but in general what’s considered to be “Black” somehow has to be hood adjacent.
Been saying it for years, but most Black people are middle class, but hood culture somehow became the definition of Black. Lotta of that dumb shit we put on ourselves like “no snitching” culture. If you ain’t a criminal call the goddamn police. Shit got a lotta Black people thinking they got automatic squabble and ain’t been in a fight in they life only to find out they ain’t about it when it’s too late. And the part that we really don’t want to admit is hip-hop has supercharged that shit. I tell my oldest daughter don’t even try act hood. You grew up in the burbs with two supportive parents.
Bro you are right, most black folks I know are hard working folks who are trying to take care of their families.
The media and all of these clowns on social media try to make it seem that every black person needs a swat team to leave the house.

We have our challenges, but the majority of us are hard working decent people. JMHO
 

jawnswoop

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This revisionist generation will be the death of us.

Everyone acts like they had such high taste and culture back in the day.
I know I didn't, I watched what everyone else thought was cool back then. Because when you're young, you don't think the same when you're older becoming an adult and if people said they had the same mindset back then when they became an adult being older watching these shows then you know they're lying and can call their bluff.
 
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playahaitian

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Bro you are right, most black folks I know are hard working folks who are trying to take care of their families.
The media and all of these clowns on social media try to make it seem that every black person needs a swat team to leave the house.

We have our challenges, but the majority of us are hard working decent people. JMHO

That ain't opinion

That's facts
 

playahaitian

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I know I didn't, I watched what everyone else thought was cool back then. Because when you're young, you don't think the same when you're older becoming an adult and if people said they had the same mindset back then whey they became an adult being older watching these shows then you know they're lying and can call their bluff.

Honesty bars
 

phanatic

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I mentioned House of Payne which is the longest running black sitcom that surpassed Jeffersons. Black-ish and Grownish and Mixedish was also mentioned in video I posted.

The issue of more things being mentioned in the last decade isn't what he is talking about anyways because of the lack of shows compared to the past decades. He is speaking on legacy sitcoms and not being on top of lists.
Black-ish was a good show that focused on us being present in specialized careers and being surrounded by white people who only reference to us is watching us on television. I can relate to Dre's character, and he need to hold on to his blackness in a job where I'm around phony ass white people who say things like "I don't see color.".
 

respiration

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Rolle's and Amos's departures had nothing to do with their characters; it was due to the actors. Amos was fired because his constant bitching became more trouble than he was worth and Rolle quit because she felt Norman Lear wasn't taking her concerns seriously. They didn't get rid of them to give more spotlight to Walker. The entire time Rolle and Amos were on that show they were at the center of it.
That is exactly what the producers did.

WHAT was John Amos "bitching" about? It was about getting a realistic portrayal of a Black family as opposed to how Norman Lear and the white writers tried to portray them and about the clownish stereotypical way that JJ was being portrayed and about the intention of the white producers to focus the show more around him.

Esther Rolle fought to get a father figure (John Amos) on the show in the first place and also fought for more relevant themes and scripts. Lear wanted Good Times to be about a single Black mother raising kids. She and John both were both against the portrayal of J.J. She eventually left after a standoff with Norman Lear.

All of the above is documented.
 

BlackGoku

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Platinum Member
Yall forgetting what NBC prime time meant back then

And Will had hits already.

Girls ain't nothing but trouble was 86
Then parents don't understand
Grammy in 89
The show in 90
Summertime in 91
He had got critical acclaim for six degrees
THEN bad boys in 95

What yall talking about disrespecting Will? Will put ln SERIOUS work

And so did Martin with Def Jam, the concert and all the supporting roles

Martin was in FIRE too.

That's why the team up was perfect.

Martin had MORE film experience but saying he was BIGGER than Will is a stretch.

We ain't talking 'hood" (i see you Jaleel) we talking national
It's kinda hard for me because I was still a kid and didn't really watch a lot of martins content. But as far as the movie, I thought Martin had the better lines..like i still laugh my head off to this day on this scene from Bad Boys :lol:
 

playahaitian

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It's kinda hard for me because I was still a kid and didn't really watch a lot of martins content. But as far as the movie, I thought Martin had the better lines..like i still laugh my head off to this day on this scene from Bad Boys :lol:


Classic film

from 2 legends not even in their primes.

We need to celebrate them BOTH

anything else is useless and negative.
 

Ryokurin

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I think there is some truth to this, becuase I've read that NBC actually was thinking of cancelling the show twice but fans begged for it back and/or syndication proved lucrative.

It wasn't an outcry from fans, but the fact that the last 2-3 seasons, a group of NBC affiliates, and WB itself funded the show long enough to get it over the 100-episode threshold needed for widespread syndication. In exchange, WB cut NBC in on some of the profit from the sale. It's pretty common nowadays (for example, this is the main reason why the CW existed as long as it did) but Fresh Prince was one of the first shows to do it after rules were changed to allow it.
 

Ryokurin

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Fresh prince wasn't supposed to be comedy show at the time.

That's why you see a spin-off of it on peacock (bel-Air) which is the direction Fresh prince should've went back then.

It wouldn't have worked. At least not with Will.

The first year, he was the gimmick to watch the show and he had no acting credit. He did it because he owed the IRS back taxes. Will has even said on the record that he hates the first season because was so green he didn't realize he didn't have to learn everyone's lines, so if you watch him closely, you'll see him awkwardly trying to mouth them to keep up. This is where the contention comes up for when he was taken seriously as an actor.

He had a few parts in some movies before but the first one where he had a serious role was Six Degrees of Separation. That got him at least to be known in the industry to have some range. He got Bad Boys because Arsenio didn't want to do it. While he was good, it didn't get him Independence Day, he got that because the writers saw Six Degrees and thought he'd be perfect because they wanted someone Black to play his part. THIS is the point where he got his superstar status.
 

doug777

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BGOL Investor
That is exactly what the producers did. That's not true, Walker had been at the center of the show since the first season, they didn't need to fire Amos to expand Walker's JJ, they could have simply reduced Amos' role and expanded Walker's like would later be done on Family Matters to Jo Marie Payton. It wasn't always harmonious but they had a successeful show for three complete season with Rolle, Amos, and Walker at the center. The departure of Amos led to more lines for Thelma, Michael, and Willona, not JJ, Walker was already at the center of the show.

WHAT was John Amos "bitching" about? It was about getting a realistic portrayal of a Black family as opposed to how Norman Lear and the white writers tried to portray them and about the clownish stereotypical way that JJ was being portrayed and about the intention of the white producers to focus the show more around him. No one is disputing this.

Esther Rolle fought to get a father figure (John Amos) on the show in the first place and also fought for more relevant themes and scripts. Lear wanted Good Times to be about a single Black mother raising kids. She and John both were both against the portrayal of J.J. She eventually left after a standoff with Norman Lear. This is also true.
After three successful seasons, Amos was killed off the show in a move that shocked viewers. It seems the decision had been a long time coming, however, as Amos explained the struggles he had with the writers during his tenure.


"I felt like I knew more about what a Black family should be and how a Black father would act than our writers. None of whom were Black and their perception of what a Black family would be and Black father would be was totally different from mine," Amos told comedian Luenell in a 2020 interview for Vlad TV.

And while he and Lear had "a few emotional discussions," writers became a bit more open to taking notes and suggestions on how to make the show authentic and true-to-life. Still, Amos admitted his delivery of said notes perhaps wasn't always the best.


"I wasn't very tactful in my complaints about the script or script points," he said. "I wasn't the most diplomatic guy so very often it would end in me saying, 'Well, let's go outside,' and these were Hollywood writers, they weren't used to that," he recalled.


Ultimately, things got to the point where the writers of the show simply couldn't work with Amos anymore and he was let go ahead of season four.


Where does Amos claim he was fired to expand the role of JJ? Sounds like he was fired because they were tired of his bitching.
 

doug777

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BGOL Investor
Wrong again. The genesis of their grievances was an objection to the direction the show had taken. Both were concerned with the imagery of highlighting the antics of a buffoon and spotlighting him over the Black family.
No one is disputing this. Where we have a difference is the reason Amos was fired,

After three successful seasons, Amos was killed off the show in a move that shocked viewers. It seems the decision had been a long time coming, however, as Amos explained the struggles he had with the writers during his tenure.


"I felt like I knew more about what a Black family should be and how a Black father would act than our writers. None of whom were Black and their perception of what a Black family would be and Black father would be was totally different from mine," Amos told comedian Luenell in a 2020 interview for Vlad TV.

And while he and Lear had "a few emotional discussions," writers became a bit more open to taking notes and suggestions on how to make the show authentic and true-to-life. Still, Amos admitted his delivery of said notes perhaps wasn't always the best.


"I wasn't very tactful in my complaints about the script or script points," he said. "I wasn't the most diplomatic guy so very often it would end in me saying, 'Well, let's go outside,' and these were Hollywood writers, they weren't used to that," he recalled.


Ultimately, things got to the point where the writers of the show simply couldn't work with Amos anymore and he was let go ahead of season four.


Where does Amos claim he was fired to expand the role of JJ? Sounds like he was fired because they were tired of his bitching.
 

Complex

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BGOL Investor
I was never into Good Times like that. I watched it when others were watching it, which was still pretty often unfortunately.

It was too dark and serious for me, James dying, Penny being abused with the iron and them always being broke and eating lumpy ass oatmeal :smh:

From the 70's I always liked The Jeffersons and Sanford and Son better.
 

jawnswoop

It's A Philly Thing
BGOL Investor
I was never into Good Times like that. I watched it when others were watching it, which was still pretty often unfortunately.

It was too dark and serious for me, James dying, Penny being abused with the iron and them always being broke and eating lumpy ass oatmeal :smh:

From the 70's I always liked The Jeffersons and Sanford and Son better.
Yeah, the Jefferson's and Sanford son are the ones that keep you laughing all the time. Those will forever be timeless shows.
 

Mt. Yukon

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
We watched it but didn’t watch it. A few days ago someone quoted a Martin line. Martin has cultural relevance with less ratings. Why is that? They’re going to use the same rationale for Abott Elementary too.
Ratings for shows, especially back in those days is like when people look at record sales for music. Selling a bunch of records don't make you dope, just means you're popular. Black shows in particular with high ratings meansssssss... A buncha whitefolks watched it. When wholefoods get ahold of anything black they make it popular and then leave it for the next big thing. When it's organic it's a cult classic forever.
 

respiration

/ˌrespəˈrāSH(ə)n/
BGOL Patreon Investor
No one is disputing this. Where we have a difference is the reason Amos was fired,
Your argument sounds like when white people argue in favor of Confederate flags.

"It doesn't represent slavery. It represents states rights!"

Yes. The right of states to own slaves. :rolleyes2:

You keep saying he was "bitching" to the writers and producers and that's why he was fired, but each time you neglect to say what he was complaining about, which was that they not push black stereotypes..

Also, the term "bitching" implies he was being a bitch. Is that how you feel about his complaints?
 

respiration

/ˌrespəˈrāSH(ə)n/
BGOL Patreon Investor
After three successful seasons, Amos was killed off the show in a move that shocked viewers. It seems the decision had been a long time coming, however, as Amos explained the struggles he had with the writers during his tenure.


"I felt like I knew more about what a Black family should be and how a Black father would act than our writers. None of whom were Black and their perception of what a Black family would be and Black father would be was totally different from mine," Amos told comedian Luenell in a 2020 interview for Vlad TV.

And while he and Lear had "a few emotional discussions," writers became a bit more open to taking notes and suggestions on how to make the show authentic and true-to-life. Still, Amos admitted his delivery of said notes perhaps wasn't always the best.


"I wasn't very tactful in my complaints about the script or script points," he said. "I wasn't the most diplomatic guy so very often it would end in me saying, 'Well, let's go outside,' and these were Hollywood writers, they weren't used to that," he recalled.


Ultimately, things got to the point where the writers of the show simply couldn't work with Amos anymore and he was let go ahead of season four.


Where does Amos claim he was fired to expand the role of JJ? Sounds like he was fired because they were tired of his bitching.


...Yet it's no secret that Esther Rolle and John Amos (who played James Evans) left the series because Jimmie Walker's character, J.J. Evans, became the focal point. After they departed, in separate seasons, rumors in the media began swirling around that the actress wasn't fond of Walker.

In an interview with The Greenville News in 1978, Rolle set matters straight. "I have no gripes against Jimmie Walker," she began. "I have gripes against J.J., he's an idiot."

If you've never watched an episode of Good Times, you might consider "idiot" a harsh word to describe a character, but writers did get a little out of hand with J.J.'s phrases, attire and dance moves. At one point, the series went from being centered around the Evans family to the outrageous adventures of J.J.

"I dislike some of the foolishness of J.J., but Jimmie Walker is an ambitious young man whom I have respect for. I wouldn't go out with him socially, but we're just not the same type [of] people."


When Good Times premiered, the character of J.J. – the Evans’ oldest of three children – was initially meant to provide some comedic relief.

But the character became increasingly popular with audiences, in part because of his slapstick antics and signature catchphrase, “Dy-no-mite!” Over time, Walker’s character took up more and more screen time.

Both Amos and Rolle disapproved of the shift. They thought the character of J.J. lacked nuance and was irresponsible, perpetuating negative racial stereotypes and taking precious screen time away from more important, serious social issues that could be explored.

In a 2015 interview with the American Archive of Television (via The Root), Amos explained of his disapproval, “I felt too much emphasis was being put on J.J. and his chicken hat and saying ‘dy-no-mite’ every third page, when just as much emphasis and mileage could have been gotten out of my other two children.”

Rolle, too, was open about her disdain for the direction that J.J.’s character took. In particular, she criticized his shift into an increasingly absurd, over-the-top character across time.

“He’s 18 and he doesn’t work. He can’t read or write. He doesn’t think,” Rolle said of J.J.’s portrayal in a 1975 interview with Ebony. “The show didn’t start out to be that…Negative images have been slipped in on us through the character of the oldest child.”


Good Times was one of the first TV comedies centered on a Black nuclear family. It was meant to be in a similar vein as both Maude and All in the Family, with Florida and James wrestling with poverty, racism, and other social ills. Together, they provided a calm anchor in the tumultuous lives of their kids -- and for audience members dealing with their own struggles in an America not too far removed from the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Amos could deftly trade punchlines with his co-stars, particularly whenever James was expressing disapproval towards the lazy JJ (played by comedian Jimmie Walker). But to viewers who had grown up only seeing white actors get to play idealized sitcom dads, James' mere existence -- coupled with the warm strength with which Amos played him -- made him feel historic.


But it was JJ -- and his frequently-yelled catchphrase, "DYN-O-MITE!" -- that seemed to generate the loudest response, and soon the show began to reorient itself around him, leaving James and Florida as exasperated straight men in what was meant to be their story. Rolle and Amos both objected to this shift, frequently. Her complaints tended to be more public, while his tended to be more hostile. ("I wasn't the most diplomatic guy in those days," he would say years later, and his bosses "got tired of having their lives threatened over jokes.") Amos was fired after the third season, and the fourth season began with the Evans family being confronted with tragedy, when an off-camera James died in a car accident while pursuing a job opportunity in Mississippi. (Rolle quit after that season, and without either parent around to ground things, JJ suddenly seemed much less appealing; the ratings began to drop.)

As to your question, refer to my previous comment to you.
 

godofwine

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BGOL Investor
I didn't listen to the interview, but he's right. While Living Single wasn't a hood story, black people far too often have difficulty showing us as being more than just broke or poor or living in the hood.

Even worse than that, kids that grow up with parents who are married and live in the suburbs want to hang out "down the way" in the projects or in the hood because they beLIEve or have been told that they lost their "Black card" or they "ain't really Black."

Always remember there is a big lie smack dab in the middle of the word beLIEve.

Their parents put them in position to have success in their life and they want to hang out around people who have less of a chance and the only thing that they share with these people is their skin complexion. Not trying to say that the Haves of the Black population shouldn't hang out in the hood, but there are far more people in the hood that will be jealous of you (or worse, try to rob or hurt you) than people who are happy that you have a chance.

I may have told this story before, but I'll tell it again.

When I was in the Navy I tore up my knee and was home on convalescent leave. I went to a party with a friend of mine from high school and there was a group of about 10 or so people sitting around a table about two smoke a blunt. There was a guy at the table rolling the blunt, and to his left was the equivalent of a female Steve Urkel, let's call her Stella Urkel.

I asked my boy if I could hit the blunt because I didn't have to go back for 3 weeks and it should be out of my system by then and he said, "Naw, you don't want none of that."

I noticed that whenever Stella Urkel looked toward the guy rolling the blunt, someone on the other side would strike up a conversation with her about whatever.

My spidey senses were going crazy, but I couldn't figure out what the fuck was going on.

When he got done rolling the guy handed her the blunt and lit it. She took a hit and was about to pass it, but everybody waved her on urging her to hit it again.

She hit the blunt a second time and attempted to pass it, but again they urge her to hit it again. This happened at least two more times and the fourth time she started coughing uncontrollably and twitching, like spazzing out and EVERYONE in that room broke out laughing, like more than this is funny as hell, but a "Gotcha" laugh, including the guy I came to the party with.

The only ones who weren't laughing were me and her.

I didn't know her. I didn't know her name, I didn't know where she was from, I didn't know what school she went to or whatever. Worse off, I was on crutches and I couldn't save her if I wanted to.

I just left. The guy who I came with who actually came to pick me up, I left and caught the bus home.

I never saw that guy again. I think they laced the blunt with Angel dust or something. Anyone who does that to somebody who thinks they're getting regular weed is an asshole and I don't want to be around them.

I know stories like this isn't just happening in the hood, but those people were jealous of her. Those people, and their heads thought, "She thinks she's better than us," but we'll show her.

Black stories are black stories whether we grow up in the projects or the suburbs. Candice Owens, whether she likes it or not is black. Same for Kanye West and every other self-hating black person, but there is a strong belief that if a black person doesn't struggle or come from struggle then they ain't really black and that's bullshit
 

doug777

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
...Yet it's no secret that Esther Rolle and John Amos (who played James Evans) left the series because Jimmie Walker's character, J.J. Evans, became the focal point. After they departed, in separate seasons, rumors in the media began swirling around that the actress wasn't fond of Walker.

In an interview with The Greenville News in 1978, Rolle set matters straight. "I have no gripes against Jimmie Walker," she began. "I have gripes against J.J., he's an idiot."

If you've never watched an episode of Good Times, you might consider "idiot" a harsh word to describe a character, but writers did get a little out of hand with J.J.'s phrases, attire and dance moves. At one point, the series went from being centered around the Evans family to the outrageous adventures of J.J.

"I dislike some of the foolishness of J.J., but Jimmie Walker is an ambitious young man whom I have respect for. I wouldn't go out with him socially, but we're just not the same type [of] people."


When Good Times premiered, the character of J.J. – the Evans’ oldest of three children – was initially meant to provide some comedic relief.

But the character became increasingly popular with audiences, in part because of his slapstick antics and signature catchphrase, “Dy-no-mite!” Over time, Walker’s character took up more and more screen time.

Both Amos and Rolle disapproved of the shift. They thought the character of J.J. lacked nuance and was irresponsible, perpetuating negative racial stereotypes and taking precious screen time away from more important, serious social issues that could be explored.

In a 2015 interview with the American Archive of Television (via The Root), Amos explained of his disapproval, “I felt too much emphasis was being put on J.J. and his chicken hat and saying ‘dy-no-mite’ every third page, when just as much emphasis and mileage could have been gotten out of my other two children.”

Rolle, too, was open about her disdain for the direction that J.J.’s character took. In particular, she criticized his shift into an increasingly absurd, over-the-top character across time.

“He’s 18 and he doesn’t work. He can’t read or write. He doesn’t think,” Rolle said of J.J.’s portrayal in a 1975 interview with Ebony. “The show didn’t start out to be that…Negative images have been slipped in on us through the character of the oldest child.”


Good Times was one of the first TV comedies centered on a Black nuclear family. It was meant to be in a similar vein as both Maude and All in the Family, with Florida and James wrestling with poverty, racism, and other social ills. Together, they provided a calm anchor in the tumultuous lives of their kids -- and for audience members dealing with their own struggles in an America not too far removed from the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Amos could deftly trade punchlines with his co-stars, particularly whenever James was expressing disapproval towards the lazy JJ (played by comedian Jimmie Walker). But to viewers who had grown up only seeing white actors get to play idealized sitcom dads, James' mere existence -- coupled with the warm strength with which Amos played him -- made him feel historic.


But it was JJ -- and his frequently-yelled catchphrase, "DYN-O-MITE!" -- that seemed to generate the loudest response, and soon the show began to reorient itself around him, leaving James and Florida as exasperated straight men in what was meant to be their story. Rolle and Amos both objected to this shift, frequently. Her complaints tended to be more public, while his tended to be more hostile. ("I wasn't the most diplomatic guy in those days," he would say years later, and his bosses "got tired of having their lives threatened over jokes.") Amos was fired after the third season, and the fourth season began with the Evans family being confronted with tragedy, when an off-camera James died in a car accident while pursuing a job opportunity in Mississippi. (Rolle quit after that season, and without either parent around to ground things, JJ suddenly seemed much less appealing; the ratings began to drop.)

As to your question, refer to my previous comment to you.
Everything you posted proves what was never in dispute. I've said several times in this thread that no one disputes that Esther Rolle and John Amos had problems with the JJ Evans character. What we're disagreeing about is why Amos was fired, and nothing you posted says Amos was fired to expand JJ's role. You and I both posted Amos saying he threatened the writers of the show with physical violence. How long would you expect them to allow someone to threaten his colleagues before something is done, seems like about three years in Amos' case. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
 

doug777

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Your argument sounds like when white people argue in favor of Confederate flags.

"It doesn't represent slavery. It represents states rights!"

Yes. The right of states to own slaves. :rolleyes2:

You keep saying he was "bitching" to the writers and producers and that's why he was fired, but each time you neglect to say what he was complaining about, which was that they not push black stereotypes..

Also, the term "bitching" implies he was being a bitch. Is that how you feel about his complaints?
I didn't mention it because it's common knowledge why Rolle and Amos didn't like the JJ character. Come on dude, bitching is synonymous with complaining. I have no idea why you think my argument is analogous to white people and the confederate flag.
 
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wwetv100

Rising Star
BGOL Patreon Investor
Ratings for shows, especially back in those days is like when people look at record sales for music. Selling a bunch of records don't make you dope, just means you're popular. Black shows in particular with high ratings meansssssss... A buncha whitefolks watched it. When wholefoods get ahold of anything black they make it popular and then leave it for the next big thing. When it's organic it's a cult classic forever.

Yeah I made mention about time slots and networks backing shows or lack thereof. It doesn't tell the whole story and the example is the second longest running black sitcom ever. What makes their feat so amazing and different than House of Payne is how the network tried to screw with them, but they would still garner ratings worthy of staying on the air.

The network gave The Jeffersons 15 different time-slot changes in its 11 season run.
They never gave the show a proper ending and didn't even have the decency to tell the cast the show was ending.

Also I agree with having Marla Gibbs getting the Betty White treatment as well. She is a pioneer.



The show to some also lost some of its sting when they lessened the racism aspect of it, but could also mean why they switched up time slots so much too.



Another show that had big alterations in its run was Sanford and Son when Redd Foxx would get into disputes over pay and wanted to be equal to Archie Bunker because of bringing in the ratings. Imagine them removing Urkel from Family Matters in its prime and trying to bring in a replacement like they did with Grady only to go back to Urkel, yet the show survived strongly in ratings.
 
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