I might be wrong, but I don't think there is any source material for Jokers origin.
JOKER (2019) Discussion Thread Starring Joaquin Phoenix (Update 9/12/19) Leaked Footage.. GOOD GAWD
- Thread starter fonzerrillii
- Start date
It was a child.
I agree with Kotaku from what I've seen. If it wasn't for the face paint and the names you wouldn't know it was a comic book movie
You're not wrong Joker is one of the few characters that doesn't have an origin.
Don t talk about my Miracles
Oh, the pain.
He appeared in the first trailer
So its confirmed that the little kid is DEFINITELY Bruce?
Marvel is gonna be punching the wall if DC gets one first ...
Real talk, I'm still mad Black Panther aint win.
However i think as much as DC did dark violent kinda first Burton Batman and continued with Snyder-verse
Even though Blade is the granddaddy to all that?
I would argue Winter Solider was "first" grown folk superhero movie of the modern era.
Marvel SHOULD jave had the first female lead...
While Captain Marvel made more money and better received
In their heart of hearts they KNOW that was not the best they could deliver.
And Black Widow is going to be their REAL one.
Problem is looking the schedule?
I don't see a OBVIOUS Oscar award contender coming up.
8 minute standing ovation?
Damn.
Damn.
If you’ve ever watched The Master then you would know Joaquin will kill this role...Todd Phillips is the director too(Old School) he’s probably been waiting for years in the dark for this opportunity ..and it’s a rated R villian movie... this might be the perfect storm just how Blade was when it dropped.
Last edited:
The joker has an origin. Her was known as the red hood. Look it up.
Have two actors ever won Oscars for playing the same character?
The Master was a great flic. He and Hoffman were GREAT in that shit.
That's a good ass question
Didnt Brando and Deniro both win for playing Vito Corleone?
Google says you are correct sir. I did not know that.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...redicting-Oscar-stunning-Joaquin-Phoenix.html
JOKER: THE EARLY REVIEWS ARE IN
Phillips' vision of Gotham standing [is a] sharp relief [from] the same city portrayed by Christopher Nolan or Tim Burton
- Jim Vejvoda, IGN
This neo-noir psychological character study is arguably the best Batman-adjacent movie since The Dark Knight
– David Rooney, The Hollywood Reporter
Undeniable style and propulsive charge... a film that looms and leers with nasty inexorability
– Richard Lawson, Vanity Fair
The fact is, everyone is going to be stunned by what Phoenix accomplishes, because it's what many thought impossible — a portrayal that matches and potentially exceeds that of The Dark Knight's Clown Prince of Crime
– Mark Hughes, Forbes
Phoenix never lets us forget that a monster will soon emerge, but he's such a haunting figure that we lament when that transformation occurs. And although the actor skillfully illuminates Arthur's pre-Joker disintegration, he also proves to be a pretty terrific Joker during the film's final stretches
– Tim Grierson, Screen Daily
JOKER: THE EARLY REVIEWS ARE IN
Phillips' vision of Gotham standing [is a] sharp relief [from] the same city portrayed by Christopher Nolan or Tim Burton
- Jim Vejvoda, IGN
This neo-noir psychological character study is arguably the best Batman-adjacent movie since The Dark Knight
– David Rooney, The Hollywood Reporter
Undeniable style and propulsive charge... a film that looms and leers with nasty inexorability
– Richard Lawson, Vanity Fair
The fact is, everyone is going to be stunned by what Phoenix accomplishes, because it's what many thought impossible — a portrayal that matches and potentially exceeds that of The Dark Knight's Clown Prince of Crime
– Mark Hughes, Forbes
Phoenix never lets us forget that a monster will soon emerge, but he's such a haunting figure that we lament when that transformation occurs. And although the actor skillfully illuminates Arthur's pre-Joker disintegration, he also proves to be a pretty terrific Joker during the film's final stretches
– Tim Grierson, Screen Daily
High hopes: The film - which is directed by Todd Phillips and was developed originally by Martin Scorsese - has racked up an impressive 87 percent on Rotten Tomatoes, pre-release
+11
+11
+11
+11
Past Jokers: Cesar Romero, Jack Nicholson, Jared Leto and Heath Ledger (clockwise from top left) all embodied the part of The Joker in previous incarnations
After the Aurora Colorado shooting, where the shooter dressed up like Joker, Warner Bros did the trailer up with no violence.
@fonzerrillii
What Does Joker Mean for the Future of Comic-Book Movies?
By Jessica Kiang
It’s not just the R rating that sets Todd Phillips’s film apart. Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Remember how Jared Leto’s Joker had the word “damaged” tattooed on his forehead? Remember when Jack Nicholson’s Joker snickered “you can’t make an omelet … without breaking some eggs” and punctuated it by smashing Jerry Hall’s mask with his fist? Remember when Heath Ledger’s Joker gleefully made a pencil “disappear”? Yeah, well, nothing like that happens in Todd Phillips’s Joker.
Until the final act, that is, when Joaquin Phoenix’s take on the character fully emerges from the seriously screwed-up chrysalis of his everyday Arthur Fleck persona. Before that moment, there is nothing celebratory or calculated or even particularly absurd about his incremental acts of violence — something readers of the notorious leaked Joker script noted. “It’s so realistic!” went the excited refrain on Reddit threads dedicated to parsing the document, and while some aspects have changed from that draft of the screenplay, a grimy, grounded nature a million miles removed from capes or catwomen or vats of acid remains in the film that screened at Venice Film Festival. Unstable, unlovable, and antisocial as Fleck is, there is no preternatural evil inside of him, just frustrated longing and mental illness. It’s the world outside of Fleck’s mind that is malevolent — a world that, as Arthur says to his caseworker, “is getting worse.”
In the few short hours since Joker debuted — or should that be detonated — for audiences in Italy, approximately 1 billion words have been written about it, and about how Phoenix’s greasy, queasy, deeply uneasy performance stacks up against Jokers prior. The film is not only part of the extended Batman mythology, it is part of a comic-book genre of which Batman and its parent, DC Comics, are only subsets. But Joker doesn’t feel like any of the superhero movies that came before it. It drips with arthouse seriousness and unabashed provocation, packaged inside recognizable IP, meaning Joker will reach a much wider audience than a traditional indie title might.
It’s not just the R rating that sets Todd Phillips’s film apart. There have been R-rated comic-book films before — Blade, Kick-Ass, Deadpool — marked by excessive gore and sexual content and kids who use the C-word. Joker, on the other hand, possesses a murky morality that doesn’t fit with the good-evil binaries of usual superhero films. (In terms of violence, though, it earns that R instantly in a scene in which Arthur bludgeons a co-worker to death with his hands, a pair of scissors, and his squalid apartment’s skirting board.) The closest comparison in the genre is probably James Mangold’s R-rated Logan, an ode to a broken, aging Wolverine forced to go rogue, that similarly packed in references to classic cinema. But the crucial difference is that Wolverine, however grudgingly, is a hero. Arthur is absolutely not.
Joker borrows texture and tone from other bygone films, sucking movie history into its superhero form. It refers directly to Taxi Driver (Arthur mimes blowing out his brains with a finger gun) and The King of Comedy(Arthur wants to be a comedian and is obsessed with a talk-show host played by Robert De Niro). Those are difficult, provocative, grown-up films. In 2019, Joker is harkening back to the movies of the ’70s, the era of the anti-hero, when radical ideas, maverick talents, and distinctly countercultural sensibilities briefly ruled Hollywood, before blockbuster culture steamrolled over them.
And now the blockbuster is an all-conquering, multiplex-colonizing beast, and its most successful model has been the comic-book movie, bringing the story of Joker’s development looping back on itself. As convincing and effective as Joker is, that alone doesn’t justify its existence. Do we really need a comic-book supervillain remade as Travis Bickle, when we already have Travis Bickle? Are we so cornfed on superhero movies that we can only understand the tragic irony of a cautionary tale like The King of Comedy when it’s reworked to include a bit where Bruce Wayne’s parents get killed for the gazillionth time in a hail of gunfire and scattered pearls? Critics are already wondering whether or not superhero movies will ever be the same post-Joker, but perhaps we should be worrying about the rest of the cinema world, too.
What Does Joker Mean for the Future of Comic-Book Movies?
By Jessica Kiang
It’s not just the R rating that sets Todd Phillips’s film apart. Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Remember how Jared Leto’s Joker had the word “damaged” tattooed on his forehead? Remember when Jack Nicholson’s Joker snickered “you can’t make an omelet … without breaking some eggs” and punctuated it by smashing Jerry Hall’s mask with his fist? Remember when Heath Ledger’s Joker gleefully made a pencil “disappear”? Yeah, well, nothing like that happens in Todd Phillips’s Joker.
Until the final act, that is, when Joaquin Phoenix’s take on the character fully emerges from the seriously screwed-up chrysalis of his everyday Arthur Fleck persona. Before that moment, there is nothing celebratory or calculated or even particularly absurd about his incremental acts of violence — something readers of the notorious leaked Joker script noted. “It’s so realistic!” went the excited refrain on Reddit threads dedicated to parsing the document, and while some aspects have changed from that draft of the screenplay, a grimy, grounded nature a million miles removed from capes or catwomen or vats of acid remains in the film that screened at Venice Film Festival. Unstable, unlovable, and antisocial as Fleck is, there is no preternatural evil inside of him, just frustrated longing and mental illness. It’s the world outside of Fleck’s mind that is malevolent — a world that, as Arthur says to his caseworker, “is getting worse.”
In the few short hours since Joker debuted — or should that be detonated — for audiences in Italy, approximately 1 billion words have been written about it, and about how Phoenix’s greasy, queasy, deeply uneasy performance stacks up against Jokers prior. The film is not only part of the extended Batman mythology, it is part of a comic-book genre of which Batman and its parent, DC Comics, are only subsets. But Joker doesn’t feel like any of the superhero movies that came before it. It drips with arthouse seriousness and unabashed provocation, packaged inside recognizable IP, meaning Joker will reach a much wider audience than a traditional indie title might.
It’s not just the R rating that sets Todd Phillips’s film apart. There have been R-rated comic-book films before — Blade, Kick-Ass, Deadpool — marked by excessive gore and sexual content and kids who use the C-word. Joker, on the other hand, possesses a murky morality that doesn’t fit with the good-evil binaries of usual superhero films. (In terms of violence, though, it earns that R instantly in a scene in which Arthur bludgeons a co-worker to death with his hands, a pair of scissors, and his squalid apartment’s skirting board.) The closest comparison in the genre is probably James Mangold’s R-rated Logan, an ode to a broken, aging Wolverine forced to go rogue, that similarly packed in references to classic cinema. But the crucial difference is that Wolverine, however grudgingly, is a hero. Arthur is absolutely not.
Joker borrows texture and tone from other bygone films, sucking movie history into its superhero form. It refers directly to Taxi Driver (Arthur mimes blowing out his brains with a finger gun) and The King of Comedy(Arthur wants to be a comedian and is obsessed with a talk-show host played by Robert De Niro). Those are difficult, provocative, grown-up films. In 2019, Joker is harkening back to the movies of the ’70s, the era of the anti-hero, when radical ideas, maverick talents, and distinctly countercultural sensibilities briefly ruled Hollywood, before blockbuster culture steamrolled over them.
And now the blockbuster is an all-conquering, multiplex-colonizing beast, and its most successful model has been the comic-book movie, bringing the story of Joker’s development looping back on itself. As convincing and effective as Joker is, that alone doesn’t justify its existence. Do we really need a comic-book supervillain remade as Travis Bickle, when we already have Travis Bickle? Are we so cornfed on superhero movies that we can only understand the tragic irony of a cautionary tale like The King of Comedy when it’s reworked to include a bit where Bruce Wayne’s parents get killed for the gazillionth time in a hail of gunfire and scattered pearls? Critics are already wondering whether or not superhero movies will ever be the same post-Joker, but perhaps we should be worrying about the rest of the cinema world, too.
8 Things to Know About Joker, Before We’re Allowed to Say If It’s Good
By Jessica Kiang
At the Venice Film Festival, Todd Phillips said his movie is “certainly not a political film.” Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Update: the Venice press embargo has lifted, so you can read more about the film here.
Todd Phillips’ Joker, starring Joaquin Phoenix, premiered at Venice Film Festival on Saturday, but it won’t hit American theaters until October. Feeling overwhelmed with anticipation for what’s to come? (What, you haven’t read that leaked script yet?) Well, turn that frown upside down and put on a happy face: here are a few things we can share from the film’s press conference, and the general press reaction in Italy, in the meantime.
1. Both of the morning press screenings in Venice (the 8:30 a.m. showing in the 1,409-person Sala Darsena theater, and the 11:30 a.m. showing in the 1032-seater Sala Grande) were full to the point of turning people away. And 118 minutes later, each was greeted with by far the loudest and lustiest cheers so far heard in Venice, which you can interpret as either a very good sign, or a reminder that festival audiences are bonkers.
2. Director Todd Phillips told festival goers that he does not see Joker as much of a departure for him. (Todd Phillips previously made Old School and the Hangover movies, so…)
3. While Phillips did take some inspiration from existing storylines (in particular, his Joker is a failed stand-up comedian like the one in Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke) he says he and Phoenix, inspired by the way the character’s past has been referred to as “multiple choice,” felt free from the dogma of a set-in-stone origin story, and could shape Arthur Fleck as they wanted.
4. Phoenix, who will undoubtedly get a huge amount of attention for his performance as Arthur Fleck/Joker, started to find the character after rapid weight loss. “[It] affects your psychology, you really start to go mad when you lose that amount of weight in that amount of time” he explained at the press conference, gauntly.
5. The producer, Emma Tillinger Koskoff, has also produced all of Martin Scorsese’s films since The Departed, including the upcoming The Irishman, which stars Phoenix’s Joker co-star Robert De Niro. Her relationship with Scorsese, whose films Joker very clearly references, was useful not just for that context, but because, according to Phillips, she “knows all the best crew in New York and has the clout to lean on the MTA.”
6. According to the director, “I don’t think it was this Joker’s goal to ‘watch the world burn.’ This Joker is searching for identity. Really what he was looking for was adulation. His goal was to make people laugh and bring joy to the world. He … made a few bad decisions along the way.”
7. While the Taxi Driver, King Of Comedy, and Mean Streets influences are clear, the real genesis of the character for Phillips was a film that was very formative to the creation of the Joker in the comics: the 1928 silent movie The Man Who Laughs, directed by German Expressionist filmmaker Paul Leni.
8. As you can tell from the trailer, the film contains a lot of terrible joke-telling as part of Arthur’s stand-up ambitions, but none are as wacky as Phillips saying at the press conference that Joker “is certainly not a political film.” Now that’s comedy!
By Jessica Kiang
At the Venice Film Festival, Todd Phillips said his movie is “certainly not a political film.” Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Update: the Venice press embargo has lifted, so you can read more about the film here.
Todd Phillips’ Joker, starring Joaquin Phoenix, premiered at Venice Film Festival on Saturday, but it won’t hit American theaters until October. Feeling overwhelmed with anticipation for what’s to come? (What, you haven’t read that leaked script yet?) Well, turn that frown upside down and put on a happy face: here are a few things we can share from the film’s press conference, and the general press reaction in Italy, in the meantime.
1. Both of the morning press screenings in Venice (the 8:30 a.m. showing in the 1,409-person Sala Darsena theater, and the 11:30 a.m. showing in the 1032-seater Sala Grande) were full to the point of turning people away. And 118 minutes later, each was greeted with by far the loudest and lustiest cheers so far heard in Venice, which you can interpret as either a very good sign, or a reminder that festival audiences are bonkers.
2. Director Todd Phillips told festival goers that he does not see Joker as much of a departure for him. (Todd Phillips previously made Old School and the Hangover movies, so…)
3. While Phillips did take some inspiration from existing storylines (in particular, his Joker is a failed stand-up comedian like the one in Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke) he says he and Phoenix, inspired by the way the character’s past has been referred to as “multiple choice,” felt free from the dogma of a set-in-stone origin story, and could shape Arthur Fleck as they wanted.
4. Phoenix, who will undoubtedly get a huge amount of attention for his performance as Arthur Fleck/Joker, started to find the character after rapid weight loss. “[It] affects your psychology, you really start to go mad when you lose that amount of weight in that amount of time” he explained at the press conference, gauntly.
5. The producer, Emma Tillinger Koskoff, has also produced all of Martin Scorsese’s films since The Departed, including the upcoming The Irishman, which stars Phoenix’s Joker co-star Robert De Niro. Her relationship with Scorsese, whose films Joker very clearly references, was useful not just for that context, but because, according to Phillips, she “knows all the best crew in New York and has the clout to lean on the MTA.”
6. According to the director, “I don’t think it was this Joker’s goal to ‘watch the world burn.’ This Joker is searching for identity. Really what he was looking for was adulation. His goal was to make people laugh and bring joy to the world. He … made a few bad decisions along the way.”
7. While the Taxi Driver, King Of Comedy, and Mean Streets influences are clear, the real genesis of the character for Phillips was a film that was very formative to the creation of the Joker in the comics: the 1928 silent movie The Man Who Laughs, directed by German Expressionist filmmaker Paul Leni.
8. As you can tell from the trailer, the film contains a lot of terrible joke-telling as part of Arthur’s stand-up ambitions, but none are as wacky as Phillips saying at the press conference that Joker “is certainly not a political film.” Now that’s comedy!
Before You Get So Serious, Todd Phillips Warns Joker Doesn’t Use ‘Anything’ From Comic Books
By Halle Kiefer@hallekiefer
Photo: Warner Bros.
No, Todd Phillips does not want to know how you got those scars, or anything else about your canonical origins if you’re the Joker. According to his new interview inEmpire, the writer-director of the upcoming Joaquin Phoenix gritty clown drama didn’t draw from the traditional background of Batman’s greatest villain but instead thought up some other, newer stuff that might possibly make a regular Gotham guy act so very wackity-shmackity.
Explained Phillips, “We didn’t follow anything from the comic books, which people are gonna be mad about. We just wrote our own version of where a guy like Joker might come from. That’s what was interesting to me. We’re not even doing Joker but the story of becoming Joker. It’s about this man.” Ah, but will Joaquin’s version of the Joker still want to watch the world burn? Based on the whole “laughing maniacally while getting beat up on the subway” part of the trailer, it sure seems like it, but you’ll have to wait until October 4 to find out for sure.
By Halle Kiefer@hallekiefer
Photo: Warner Bros.
No, Todd Phillips does not want to know how you got those scars, or anything else about your canonical origins if you’re the Joker. According to his new interview inEmpire, the writer-director of the upcoming Joaquin Phoenix gritty clown drama didn’t draw from the traditional background of Batman’s greatest villain but instead thought up some other, newer stuff that might possibly make a regular Gotham guy act so very wackity-shmackity.
Explained Phillips, “We didn’t follow anything from the comic books, which people are gonna be mad about. We just wrote our own version of where a guy like Joker might come from. That’s what was interesting to me. We’re not even doing Joker but the story of becoming Joker. It’s about this man.” Ah, but will Joaquin’s version of the Joker still want to watch the world burn? Based on the whole “laughing maniacally while getting beat up on the subway” part of the trailer, it sure seems like it, but you’ll have to wait until October 4 to find out for sure.
Hmmm
There is literally no criticism of the film, it’s all 100% positive, and it doesn’t release for another month, any critics who haven’t seen it are going to be forced to give it a good review otherwise they’ll be shouted down, I think it’ll be good, but I want to see at least 1 non-fanboy balanced review
https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-backlash-reviews-explained/
Why Joker Is Facing Backlash Despite The Great Reviews
Todd Phillips' Joker movie is receiving great reviews, so why is it also facing a backlash? The DC movie, which stars Joaquin Phoenix as the Clown Prince of Crime, premiered at Venice Film Festival this weekend, and was also screened for critics elsewhere, and the early reviews for Joker have been very positive.
Phoenix stars in Joker as Arthur Fleck, a would-be stand-up comedian in Gotham City who, after a series of failures and setbacks, finds himself turning to a life of crime and becoming more deranged while he's at it, which sets him on the path to becoming the Joker. Directed and co-written by Phillips alongside Scott Silver, Joker has been on many most anticipated lists since its first trailer dropped, showcasing a very different kind of comic book movie.
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RELATED: Joker Final Trailer Breakdown: 13 Last Minute Story Reveals
As per the reviews, that's what Phillips, Phoenix et al have delivered with Joker, which received a standing ovation in Venice, and yet online the discourse about the movie has already started to sour, with multiple backlashes and controversies emerging before the film has even been properly released.
THE JOKER MOVIE BACKLASH EXPLAINED
Joker's backlash started before anyone had actually had a chance to see the movie, and instead came when the script leaked online. Despite the fact that this was just a script, and even if real not necessarily the most up-to-date version, it led to some general unhappiness and ill-feeling towards the film online from those who read it, because Joker isn't going to be a typical comic book movie.
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Many who read Joker's script weren't happy with the direction it was going in, which represented a shift away from the version(s) seen in the comics and previous DC movies. There was talk that it was going to make the character of Arthur Fleck too sympathetic; that its handling of more topical or political issues was way off; and other controversial elements that we'll not mention outright here for sake of spoilers, but needless to say made some big deviations from what's generally known or accepted about the Joker.
A lot of Joker's script, and the backlash to it, seems to be that it wasn't what people expected or wanted from the film. Of course, the script was an early one, and Phillips has since confirmed Joker's script changed, and it doesn't include the fact that direction, performances, and just about everything else can elevate a weak script into a good movie. What's on the page and what ends up on the screen are often very different things, but that didn't stop people being unhappy with Joker's script.
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RELATED: Film Festival 2019 Preview: 12 Biggest Movies With Oscar Chances
SOME PEOPLE ARE WORRIED JOKER MIGHT INCITE TERRORISM
Something that was noted by reactions to Joker's leaked script, but has definitely gained more traction now that critics have seen the film, is the idea of Joker being a dangerous movie. Joker is about a man who is rejected and deals with that in a very violent, aggressive way, and it has been suggested by various critics that the film could lead to people taking the wrong message from it: that it actually supports incel culture, and that it could lead to acts of terrorism. That's not to say that Joker openly encourages such acts, but that it could be interpreted that way by the wrong person.
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There is some historical precedent for this, in fairness. One of the biggest inspirations for Joker, and a film it's long been compared to, is Taxi Driver. When John Hinckley Jr. attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan in 1981, Taxi Driver formed part of his delusional fantasy that triggered the incident. Hinckley Jr stated that his actions were to impress Jodie Foster, whom he was obsessed with, and he had copied the hairstyle of Travis Bickle, while his attorney even played Taxi Driver in court as part of the defense.
In more modern times, and within the DC universe, there was a shooting that took place during a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises. At the Century 16 cinema in Aurora, Colorado, a gunman - James Eagen Holmes - opened fire on the theater during the movie, killing 12 people and injuring 58 others. According to initial reports, Holmes identified himself as the Joker at the time of his arrest. That was only seven years ago, and since then the political climate and numbers of mass shootings have only worsened, so it's understandable why there might be some concerns over Joker.
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JOKER BACKLASH IS A BIT OUT OF HAND
Joker was always going to be a controversial movie in some way. He's too big and popular a character, not to mention too disturbed, for there not to be people unhappy with how things turned out for one reason or another, whether it was Phillips' direction, Phoenix's performance, changes to the character, or something else entirely. DC movies have long been divisive, so it was fair to assume Joker might be too. But it's the reasons for the backlash to Joker that don't seem completely warranted.
RELATED: IT And Joker Can Save Warner Bros' Disappointing 2019
Firstly, it's harsh to judge any movie based solely on a draft script. As mentioned earlier, there are so many factors that go into a movie, on top of there being no guarantees it was the version of the script they shot, that it's impossible to say a movie will be bad simply by reading what's on the page. Joker is, according to most reactions, a good-to-great film, and it should be judged by people who have actually seen it; there's little point critiquing a work of art without knowing what it's like.
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The second point is a little more delicate. On the one hand, it isn't completely unfair to point out that a movie might have a serious negative impact on a person who is already vulnerable. Joker contains themes and images of violence, revenge, loneliness, anger, masculinity, and much more, all of which could be taken in the wrong way. But is that a reason to criticize, condemn, or "cancel" the movie itself? This risks taking things into murky territory with regards to censorship and who a film is "acceptable" for, calling to mind the BBFC banning The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which was deemed "all right for you middle-class cineastes...but what would happen if a factory worker in Manchester happened to see it?" It's also similar to the frequent backlashes to violent video games, despite research showing no link between video games and violence or aggression.
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In this sense, Joker does feel like Taxi Driver or Fight Club, where yes, there are people who will take the wrong message from it. But is that the fault of the creator? David Fincher made Fight Club as a satire of toxic masculinity that does not paint it in a favorable light, so is it a failing of his as a filmmaker that there are people who hold it up as a celebration of it instead? How much should Joker sacrifice its own story in order to hammer its point home? Going into the movie, the title along should be clear that this is about a character who is a bad guy, since the Joker is one of the most famous villains in pop-culture history, and one there's very little mistaking for a hero, anti-hero, or anything else to be potentially looked up to. It's sadly true that there will be people who'll take the wrong message from it, but then those people would also take the wrong message from reading comics, or some other work of art. Movies are open to different interpretations, and while filmmakers should be responsible with what they're making, that doesn't preclude the fact that there could always be someone who can take it the wrong way. What matters most to the director is making a great movie, and there are far greater issues to address when it comes to acts of terrorism or just the culture of toxic masculinity than Joker.
@fonzerrillii @ViCiouS @largebillsonlyplease @tallblacknyc
Why Joker Is Facing Backlash Despite The Great Reviews
- BY JAMES HUNT
- – ON SEP 04, 2019
- IN SR ORIGINALS
Todd Phillips' Joker movie is receiving great reviews, so why is it also facing a backlash? The DC movie, which stars Joaquin Phoenix as the Clown Prince of Crime, premiered at Venice Film Festival this weekend, and was also screened for critics elsewhere, and the early reviews for Joker have been very positive.
Phoenix stars in Joker as Arthur Fleck, a would-be stand-up comedian in Gotham City who, after a series of failures and setbacks, finds himself turning to a life of crime and becoming more deranged while he's at it, which sets him on the path to becoming the Joker. Directed and co-written by Phillips alongside Scott Silver, Joker has been on many most anticipated lists since its first trailer dropped, showcasing a very different kind of comic book movie.
Continue Scrolling To Keep ReadingClick the button below to start this article in quick view.
START NOW
ADVERTISING
RELATED: Joker Final Trailer Breakdown: 13 Last Minute Story Reveals
As per the reviews, that's what Phillips, Phoenix et al have delivered with Joker, which received a standing ovation in Venice, and yet online the discourse about the movie has already started to sour, with multiple backlashes and controversies emerging before the film has even been properly released.
THE JOKER MOVIE BACKLASH EXPLAINED
Joker's backlash started before anyone had actually had a chance to see the movie, and instead came when the script leaked online. Despite the fact that this was just a script, and even if real not necessarily the most up-to-date version, it led to some general unhappiness and ill-feeling towards the film online from those who read it, because Joker isn't going to be a typical comic book movie.
ADVERTISING
Many who read Joker's script weren't happy with the direction it was going in, which represented a shift away from the version(s) seen in the comics and previous DC movies. There was talk that it was going to make the character of Arthur Fleck too sympathetic; that its handling of more topical or political issues was way off; and other controversial elements that we'll not mention outright here for sake of spoilers, but needless to say made some big deviations from what's generally known or accepted about the Joker.
A lot of Joker's script, and the backlash to it, seems to be that it wasn't what people expected or wanted from the film. Of course, the script was an early one, and Phillips has since confirmed Joker's script changed, and it doesn't include the fact that direction, performances, and just about everything else can elevate a weak script into a good movie. What's on the page and what ends up on the screen are often very different things, but that didn't stop people being unhappy with Joker's script.
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RELATED: Film Festival 2019 Preview: 12 Biggest Movies With Oscar Chances
SOME PEOPLE ARE WORRIED JOKER MIGHT INCITE TERRORISM
Something that was noted by reactions to Joker's leaked script, but has definitely gained more traction now that critics have seen the film, is the idea of Joker being a dangerous movie. Joker is about a man who is rejected and deals with that in a very violent, aggressive way, and it has been suggested by various critics that the film could lead to people taking the wrong message from it: that it actually supports incel culture, and that it could lead to acts of terrorism. That's not to say that Joker openly encourages such acts, but that it could be interpreted that way by the wrong person.
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There is some historical precedent for this, in fairness. One of the biggest inspirations for Joker, and a film it's long been compared to, is Taxi Driver. When John Hinckley Jr. attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan in 1981, Taxi Driver formed part of his delusional fantasy that triggered the incident. Hinckley Jr stated that his actions were to impress Jodie Foster, whom he was obsessed with, and he had copied the hairstyle of Travis Bickle, while his attorney even played Taxi Driver in court as part of the defense.
In more modern times, and within the DC universe, there was a shooting that took place during a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises. At the Century 16 cinema in Aurora, Colorado, a gunman - James Eagen Holmes - opened fire on the theater during the movie, killing 12 people and injuring 58 others. According to initial reports, Holmes identified himself as the Joker at the time of his arrest. That was only seven years ago, and since then the political climate and numbers of mass shootings have only worsened, so it's understandable why there might be some concerns over Joker.
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JOKER BACKLASH IS A BIT OUT OF HAND
Joker was always going to be a controversial movie in some way. He's too big and popular a character, not to mention too disturbed, for there not to be people unhappy with how things turned out for one reason or another, whether it was Phillips' direction, Phoenix's performance, changes to the character, or something else entirely. DC movies have long been divisive, so it was fair to assume Joker might be too. But it's the reasons for the backlash to Joker that don't seem completely warranted.
RELATED: IT And Joker Can Save Warner Bros' Disappointing 2019
Firstly, it's harsh to judge any movie based solely on a draft script. As mentioned earlier, there are so many factors that go into a movie, on top of there being no guarantees it was the version of the script they shot, that it's impossible to say a movie will be bad simply by reading what's on the page. Joker is, according to most reactions, a good-to-great film, and it should be judged by people who have actually seen it; there's little point critiquing a work of art without knowing what it's like.
ADVERTISING
The second point is a little more delicate. On the one hand, it isn't completely unfair to point out that a movie might have a serious negative impact on a person who is already vulnerable. Joker contains themes and images of violence, revenge, loneliness, anger, masculinity, and much more, all of which could be taken in the wrong way. But is that a reason to criticize, condemn, or "cancel" the movie itself? This risks taking things into murky territory with regards to censorship and who a film is "acceptable" for, calling to mind the BBFC banning The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which was deemed "all right for you middle-class cineastes...but what would happen if a factory worker in Manchester happened to see it?" It's also similar to the frequent backlashes to violent video games, despite research showing no link between video games and violence or aggression.
ADVERTISING
In this sense, Joker does feel like Taxi Driver or Fight Club, where yes, there are people who will take the wrong message from it. But is that the fault of the creator? David Fincher made Fight Club as a satire of toxic masculinity that does not paint it in a favorable light, so is it a failing of his as a filmmaker that there are people who hold it up as a celebration of it instead? How much should Joker sacrifice its own story in order to hammer its point home? Going into the movie, the title along should be clear that this is about a character who is a bad guy, since the Joker is one of the most famous villains in pop-culture history, and one there's very little mistaking for a hero, anti-hero, or anything else to be potentially looked up to. It's sadly true that there will be people who'll take the wrong message from it, but then those people would also take the wrong message from reading comics, or some other work of art. Movies are open to different interpretations, and while filmmakers should be responsible with what they're making, that doesn't preclude the fact that there could always be someone who can take it the wrong way. What matters most to the director is making a great movie, and there are far greater issues to address when it comes to acts of terrorism or just the culture of toxic masculinity than Joker.
@fonzerrillii @ViCiouS @largebillsonlyplease @tallblacknyc
https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-backlash-reviews-explained/
Why Joker Is Facing Backlash Despite The Great Reviews
- BY JAMES HUNT
- – ON SEP 04, 2019
- IN SR ORIGINALS
Todd Phillips' Joker movie is receiving great reviews, so why is it also facing a backlash? The DC movie, which stars Joaquin Phoenix as the Clown Prince of Crime, premiered at Venice Film Festival this weekend, and was also screened for critics elsewhere, and the early reviews for Joker have been very positive.
Phoenix stars in Joker as Arthur Fleck, a would-be stand-up comedian in Gotham City who, after a series of failures and setbacks, finds himself turning to a life of crime and becoming more deranged while he's at it, which sets him on the path to becoming the Joker. Directed and co-written by Phillips alongside Scott Silver, Joker has been on many most anticipated lists since its first trailer dropped, showcasing a very different kind of comic book movie.
Continue Scrolling To Keep ReadingClick the button below to start this article in quick view.
START NOW
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RELATED: Joker Final Trailer Breakdown: 13 Last Minute Story Reveals
As per the reviews, that's what Phillips, Phoenix et al have delivered with Joker, which received a standing ovation in Venice, and yet online the discourse about the movie has already started to sour, with multiple backlashes and controversies emerging before the film has even been properly released.
THE JOKER MOVIE BACKLASH EXPLAINED
Joker's backlash started before anyone had actually had a chance to see the movie, and instead came when the script leaked online. Despite the fact that this was just a script, and even if real not necessarily the most up-to-date version, it led to some general unhappiness and ill-feeling towards the film online from those who read it, because Joker isn't going to be a typical comic book movie.
ADVERTISING
Many who read Joker's script weren't happy with the direction it was going in, which represented a shift away from the version(s) seen in the comics and previous DC movies. There was talk that it was going to make the character of Arthur Fleck too sympathetic; that its handling of more topical or political issues was way off; and other controversial elements that we'll not mention outright here for sake of spoilers, but needless to say made some big deviations from what's generally known or accepted about the Joker.
A lot of Joker's script, and the backlash to it, seems to be that it wasn't what people expected or wanted from the film. Of course, the script was an early one, and Phillips has since confirmed Joker's script changed, and it doesn't include the fact that direction, performances, and just about everything else can elevate a weak script into a good movie. What's on the page and what ends up on the screen are often very different things, but that didn't stop people being unhappy with Joker's script.
ADVERTISING
RELATED: Film Festival 2019 Preview: 12 Biggest Movies With Oscar Chances
SOME PEOPLE ARE WORRIED JOKER MIGHT INCITE TERRORISM
Something that was noted by reactions to Joker's leaked script, but has definitely gained more traction now that critics have seen the film, is the idea of Joker being a dangerous movie. Joker is about a man who is rejected and deals with that in a very violent, aggressive way, and it has been suggested by various critics that the film could lead to people taking the wrong message from it: that it actually supports incel culture, and that it could lead to acts of terrorism. That's not to say that Joker openly encourages such acts, but that it could be interpreted that way by the wrong person.
ADVERTISING
There is some historical precedent for this, in fairness. One of the biggest inspirations for Joker, and a film it's long been compared to, is Taxi Driver. When John Hinckley Jr. attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan in 1981, Taxi Driver formed part of his delusional fantasy that triggered the incident. Hinckley Jr stated that his actions were to impress Jodie Foster, whom he was obsessed with, and he had copied the hairstyle of Travis Bickle, while his attorney even played Taxi Driver in court as part of the defense.
In more modern times, and within the DC universe, there was a shooting that took place during a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises. At the Century 16 cinema in Aurora, Colorado, a gunman - James Eagen Holmes - opened fire on the theater during the movie, killing 12 people and injuring 58 others. According to initial reports, Holmes identified himself as the Joker at the time of his arrest. That was only seven years ago, and since then the political climate and numbers of mass shootings have only worsened, so it's understandable why there might be some concerns over Joker.
ADVERTISING
JOKER BACKLASH IS A BIT OUT OF HAND
Joker was always going to be a controversial movie in some way. He's too big and popular a character, not to mention too disturbed, for there not to be people unhappy with how things turned out for one reason or another, whether it was Phillips' direction, Phoenix's performance, changes to the character, or something else entirely. DC movies have long been divisive, so it was fair to assume Joker might be too. But it's the reasons for the backlash to Joker that don't seem completely warranted.
RELATED: IT And Joker Can Save Warner Bros' Disappointing 2019
Firstly, it's harsh to judge any movie based solely on a draft script. As mentioned earlier, there are so many factors that go into a movie, on top of there being no guarantees it was the version of the script they shot, that it's impossible to say a movie will be bad simply by reading what's on the page. Joker is, according to most reactions, a good-to-great film, and it should be judged by people who have actually seen it; there's little point critiquing a work of art without knowing what it's like.
ADVERTISING
The second point is a little more delicate. On the one hand, it isn't completely unfair to point out that a movie might have a serious negative impact on a person who is already vulnerable. Joker contains themes and images of violence, revenge, loneliness, anger, masculinity, and much more, all of which could be taken in the wrong way. But is that a reason to criticize, condemn, or "cancel" the movie itself? This risks taking things into murky territory with regards to censorship and who a film is "acceptable" for, calling to mind the BBFC banning The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which was deemed "all right for you middle-class cineastes...but what would happen if a factory worker in Manchester happened to see it?" It's also similar to the frequent backlashes to violent video games, despite research showing no link between video games and violence or aggression.
ADVERTISING
In this sense, Joker does feel like Taxi Driver or Fight Club, where yes, there are people who will take the wrong message from it. But is that the fault of the creator? David Fincher made Fight Club as a satire of toxic masculinity that does not paint it in a favorable light, so is it a failing of his as a filmmaker that there are people who hold it up as a celebration of it instead? How much should Joker sacrifice its own story in order to hammer its point home? Going into the movie, the title along should be clear that this is about a character who is a bad guy, since the Joker is one of the most famous villains in pop-culture history, and one there's very little mistaking for a hero, anti-hero, or anything else to be potentially looked up to. It's sadly true that there will be people who'll take the wrong message from it, but then those people would also take the wrong message from reading comics, or some other work of art. Movies are open to different interpretations, and while filmmakers should be responsible with what they're making, that doesn't preclude the fact that there could always be someone who can take it the wrong way. What matters most to the director is making a great movie, and there are far greater issues to address when it comes to acts of terrorism or just the culture of toxic masculinity than Joker.
@fonzerrillii @ViCiouS @largebillsonlyplease @tallblacknyc
we live in a culture of people making shit out of nothing
the joker character has been THE EXACT SAME CHARACTER SINCE THE BEGINNING
how can you hate this one but love heath ledger and jack
its the SAME FUCKING CHARACTER
the joker character has been THE EXACT SAME CHARACTER SINCE THE BEGINNING
how can you hate this one but love heath ledger and jack
its the SAME FUCKING CHARACTER
I think the only legit gripe might kinda maybe be a scrip attempting to make Joker sympathetic -(imo that would be just lazy)
other than that... fuck it
on the other hand I love how writer/directors will basically give interviews saying in various ways fuck genre fans and what they want - this is the story "we" wanted to tell...
yeah -its all good until opening weekend or post release promotions and the next comic con panel
But if there was a character to do this with it's the joker
He has no origin story
So you can literally do anything with him and they did
I personally am excited to see someone's vision of how he came to be
As opposed to waiting for ppl who read the comics talk about how true it was or not to the comic
It's to the point the movie don't even matter
Did you just do what we read or nah if not then fuck this movie even if the changes made made it better than the comic
But nobody would ever admit that
And it has happened more than once
Funny enough the last time that truly happened was when Batman TAS introed Harley and her and Joker's dynamic relationship-
I'll judge Joker when I see it...
Is it really someone else's vision of the character when festival viewers are claiming they saw direct cribbing from Fight Club and Taxi Driver? yeah yeah - I know - no idea is original... but at least take the leap and deliver a risky story/ plot with a terrifying protagonist (imagine Darlene on Ozark as a story protagonist)
There Will Be Blood was risky (oh shit - imagine Daniel Day Lewis as the Joker...) as was Taxi Driver and Fight Club - but only 1 of these had selectively charming but unsympathetic protagonist
I'm definitely not proclaiming
Just excited to see a movie you haven't read before entering
Judge it on good not panels
And it's the wrong joker anyway
Pope from animal kingdom is joker
https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-backlash-reviews-explained/
Why Joker Is Facing Backlash Despite The Great Reviews
- BY JAMES HUNT
- – ON SEP 04, 2019
- IN SR ORIGINALS
Todd Phillips' Joker movie is receiving great reviews, so why is it also facing a backlash? The DC movie, which stars Joaquin Phoenix as the Clown Prince of Crime, premiered at Venice Film Festival this weekend, and was also screened for critics elsewhere, and the early reviews for Joker have been very positive.
Phoenix stars in Joker as Arthur Fleck, a would-be stand-up comedian in Gotham City who, after a series of failures and setbacks, finds himself turning to a life of crime and becoming more deranged while he's at it, which sets him on the path to becoming the Joker. Directed and co-written by Phillips alongside Scott Silver, Joker has been on many most anticipated lists since its first trailer dropped, showcasing a very different kind of comic book movie.
Continue Scrolling To Keep ReadingClick the button below to start this article in quick view.
START NOW
ADVERTISING
RELATED: Joker Final Trailer Breakdown: 13 Last Minute Story Reveals
As per the reviews, that's what Phillips, Phoenix et al have delivered with Joker, which received a standing ovation in Venice, and yet online the discourse about the movie has already started to sour, with multiple backlashes and controversies emerging before the film has even been properly released.
THE JOKER MOVIE BACKLASH EXPLAINED
Joker's backlash started before anyone had actually had a chance to see the movie, and instead came when the script leaked online. Despite the fact that this was just a script, and even if real not necessarily the most up-to-date version, it led to some general unhappiness and ill-feeling towards the film online from those who read it, because Joker isn't going to be a typical comic book movie.
ADVERTISING
Many who read Joker's script weren't happy with the direction it was going in, which represented a shift away from the version(s) seen in the comics and previous DC movies. There was talk that it was going to make the character of Arthur Fleck too sympathetic; that its handling of more topical or political issues was way off; and other controversial elements that we'll not mention outright here for sake of spoilers, but needless to say made some big deviations from what's generally known or accepted about the Joker.
A lot of Joker's script, and the backlash to it, seems to be that it wasn't what people expected or wanted from the film. Of course, the script was an early one, and Phillips has since confirmed Joker's script changed, and it doesn't include the fact that direction, performances, and just about everything else can elevate a weak script into a good movie. What's on the page and what ends up on the screen are often very different things, but that didn't stop people being unhappy with Joker's script.
ADVERTISING
RELATED: Film Festival 2019 Preview: 12 Biggest Movies With Oscar Chances
SOME PEOPLE ARE WORRIED JOKER MIGHT INCITE TERRORISM
Something that was noted by reactions to Joker's leaked script, but has definitely gained more traction now that critics have seen the film, is the idea of Joker being a dangerous movie. Joker is about a man who is rejected and deals with that in a very violent, aggressive way, and it has been suggested by various critics that the film could lead to people taking the wrong message from it: that it actually supports incel culture, and that it could lead to acts of terrorism. That's not to say that Joker openly encourages such acts, but that it could be interpreted that way by the wrong person.
ADVERTISING
There is some historical precedent for this, in fairness. One of the biggest inspirations for Joker, and a film it's long been compared to, is Taxi Driver. When John Hinckley Jr. attempted to assassinate President Ronald Reagan in 1981, Taxi Driver formed part of his delusional fantasy that triggered the incident. Hinckley Jr stated that his actions were to impress Jodie Foster, whom he was obsessed with, and he had copied the hairstyle of Travis Bickle, while his attorney even played Taxi Driver in court as part of the defense.
In more modern times, and within the DC universe, there was a shooting that took place during a midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises. At the Century 16 cinema in Aurora, Colorado, a gunman - James Eagen Holmes - opened fire on the theater during the movie, killing 12 people and injuring 58 others. According to initial reports, Holmes identified himself as the Joker at the time of his arrest. That was only seven years ago, and since then the political climate and numbers of mass shootings have only worsened, so it's understandable why there might be some concerns over Joker.
ADVERTISING
JOKER BACKLASH IS A BIT OUT OF HAND
Joker was always going to be a controversial movie in some way. He's too big and popular a character, not to mention too disturbed, for there not to be people unhappy with how things turned out for one reason or another, whether it was Phillips' direction, Phoenix's performance, changes to the character, or something else entirely. DC movies have long been divisive, so it was fair to assume Joker might be too. But it's the reasons for the backlash to Joker that don't seem completely warranted.
RELATED: IT And Joker Can Save Warner Bros' Disappointing 2019
Firstly, it's harsh to judge any movie based solely on a draft script. As mentioned earlier, there are so many factors that go into a movie, on top of there being no guarantees it was the version of the script they shot, that it's impossible to say a movie will be bad simply by reading what's on the page. Joker is, according to most reactions, a good-to-great film, and it should be judged by people who have actually seen it; there's little point critiquing a work of art without knowing what it's like.
ADVERTISING
The second point is a little more delicate. On the one hand, it isn't completely unfair to point out that a movie might have a serious negative impact on a person who is already vulnerable. Joker contains themes and images of violence, revenge, loneliness, anger, masculinity, and much more, all of which could be taken in the wrong way. But is that a reason to criticize, condemn, or "cancel" the movie itself? This risks taking things into murky territory with regards to censorship and who a film is "acceptable" for, calling to mind the BBFC banning The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which was deemed "all right for you middle-class cineastes...but what would happen if a factory worker in Manchester happened to see it?" It's also similar to the frequent backlashes to violent video games, despite research showing no link between video games and violence or aggression.
ADVERTISING
In this sense, Joker does feel like Taxi Driver or Fight Club, where yes, there are people who will take the wrong message from it. But is that the fault of the creator? David Fincher made Fight Club as a satire of toxic masculinity that does not paint it in a favorable light, so is it a failing of his as a filmmaker that there are people who hold it up as a celebration of it instead? How much should Joker sacrifice its own story in order to hammer its point home? Going into the movie, the title along should be clear that this is about a character who is a bad guy, since the Joker is one of the most famous villains in pop-culture history, and one there's very little mistaking for a hero, anti-hero, or anything else to be potentially looked up to. It's sadly true that there will be people who'll take the wrong message from it, but then those people would also take the wrong message from reading comics, or some other work of art. Movies are open to different interpretations, and while filmmakers should be responsible with what they're making, that doesn't preclude the fact that there could always be someone who can take it the wrong way. What matters most to the director is making a great movie, and there are far greater issues to address when it comes to acts of terrorism or just the culture of toxic masculinity than Joker.
@fonzerrillii @ViCiouS @largebillsonlyplease @tallblacknyc
Fuck them..... 10/10