JOKER (2019) Discussion Thread Starring Joaquin Phoenix (Update 9/12/19) Leaked Footage.. GOOD GAWD

[largebillsonlyplease]

HE went WAY left and I completely disagree with his premise that it is a NEGATIVE to make the villian sympathetic

that is absurd and patently BAD WRITING.

cause he OBVIOUSLY never seen THIS...



https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/05/revisiting-batman-animated-series-heart-ice/

HOWEVER...

I kinda sorta see the issue with making the Joker TOO GROUNDED.

He is an agent of chaos a god of disorder.

So yeah to kinda SIMPLY that to him JUST being "crazy" would be a little lazy.

But I STILL have not seen this film for myself.

But look
If this is an origin which it is
Then how can he not grow into joker?
Too grounded? He wasn't a finished product
He hadn't become joker yet
That's like saying I didn't like that Bruce Wayne didn't come out the gate with the bat suit and his training perfected from jump....in an origin movie

 

[playahaitian]

But look
If this is an origin which it is
Then how can he not grow into joker?
Too grounded? He wasn't a finished product
He hadn't become joker yet
That's like saying I didn't like that Bruce Wayne didn't come out the gate with the bat suit and his training perfected from jump....in an origin movie

I'm trying to make sense of what he saying, especially since I haven't actually seen the film for myself.

I COULD understand if the THIS version of the Joker is a TRULY mentally challenged person who was crying out for help and society's indifference drove him to this..

that is NOT the Joker from the comics

And even on film?

That is gonna be HARD to pull off and DOES deviate a LOT from the traditional Joker.

Of course its not to ignore the fact that Bruce Wayne is obviously also mentally challenged.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I'm trying to make sense of what he saying, especially since I haven't actually seen the film for myself.

I COULD understand if the THIS version of the Joker is a TRULY mentally challenged person who was crying out for help and society's indifference drove him to this..

that is NOT the Joker from the comics

And even on film?

That is gonna be HARD to pull off and DOES deviate a LOT from the traditional Joker.

Of course its not to ignore the fact that Bruce Wayne is obviously also mentally challenged.

Nothing drove him into anything

He was always mentally ill
And finally decided his illness wasn't an issue
He was free to do and be how he wanted to be
He even says when he is as the joker that he isn't political
He believes in nothing
He doesn't blame his condition


But again as I said before
In the damn comics he goes to the insane asylum for the criminally insane

So to be upset that they're showing him going insane seems crazy to me lol

He's not just an evil man
He's fucking insane a maniac
It's not blaming anything it's just existing

The joker has been fucking crazy lol

Lol @ he's just an evil man that likes to do evil things does that make sense?

Heath ledger joker wasn't an evil man
He was a fucking maniac

And if you want to say maniacs aren't crazy or mentally ill
Then cool you're wrong

 

[playahaitian]

Nothing drove him into anything

He was always mentally ill
And finally decided his illness wasn't an issue
He was free to do and be how he wanted to be
He even says when he is as the joker that he isn't political
He believes in nothing
He doesn't blame his condition


But again as I said before
In the damn comics he goes to the insane asylum for the criminally insane

So to be upset that they're showing him going insane seems crazy to me lol

He's not just an evil man
He's fucking insane a maniac
It's not blaming anything it's just existing

The joker has been fucking crazy lol

Lol @ he's just an evil man that likes to do evil things does that make sense?

Heath ledger joker wasn't an evil man
He was a fucking maniac

And if you want to say maniacs aren't crazy or mentally ill
Then cool you're wrong

Cuz I agree with you.

I'm trying to see what he saying...cause I think SOMEWHERE in there I can kinda understand his view.

I think its like he seeing the Joker as RIGHT NOW

In a climate and society where you can't even SAY CRAZY ANYMORE in polite company.

I think the this new PC society is OK with Jerome Veleska Gotham "crazy"

but to actually show how REAL mental disorder would work ?

As we have seen apparently makes people REAL uncomfortable...

I think because we got one in the white house and he is inciting damn near every 4 months another mass shooting

I GET it.

Again I feel a little silly cause I aint seen the movie.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Cuz I agree with you.

I'm trying to see what he saying...cause I think SOMEWHERE in there I can kinda understand his view.

I think its like he seeing the Joker as RIGHT NOW

In a climate and society where you can't even SAY CRAZY ANYMORE in polite company.

I think the this new PC society is OK with Jerome Veleska Gotham "crazy"

but to actually show how REAL mental disorder would work ?

As we have seen apparently makes people REAL uncomfortable...

I think because we got one in the white house and he is inciting damn near every 4 months another mass shooting

I GET it.

Again I feel a little silly cause I aint seen the movie.

So no origin in an origin movie

Got it

 

[playahaitian]

So no origin in an origin movie

Got it

It seems they only want an origin they feel COMFORTABLE with...

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

It seems they only want an origin they feel COMFORTABLE with...

which is stupid since the joker has no official origin.

 

[playahaitian]

which is stupid since the joker has no official origin.

again you RIGHT..

but especially with Heath's version..

that was part of his myth and god of chaos thing...

diehards loved that and honestly?

I never wanted a REAL origin of Joker either.

But that doesn't mean I am unable to appreciate good work.

that is the new "fan mentality" now

they think they OWN EVERYTHING.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

again you RIGHT..

but especially with Heath's version..

that was part of his myth and god of chaos thing...

diehards loved that and honestly?

I never wanted a REAL origin of Joker either.

But that doesn't mean I am unable to appreciate good work.

that is the new "fan mentality" now

they think they OWN EVERYTHING.

This movie captures that in it's essence
It just needed to finish it off with him in his final form an agent of chaos

It didn't do that but it did get him to Heath's beginning point imo

He didn't need to pull off a caper

We just needed to see that switch

 

[tallblacknyc]

Didn't like it.. Was pretty dumb and 1 of those movies where you got to believe a billion coincidences juss happen to go back to back

 

[Bawse Nigguh]

I think the problem most people are having is that they are trying to fit this Joker in with the larger batman mythos. People are trying their best to rationalize this Jokers place into any existing batman story. This is just another interpretation.

 

[Bawse Nigguh]

Didn't like it.. Was pretty dumb and 1 of those movies where you got to believe a billion coincidences juss happen to go back to back

As an unreliable narrator, perhaps none of it happened and Joker made it all up in his mind

 

[tallblacknyc]

As an unreliable narrator, perhaps none of it happened and Joker made it all up in his mind

Still forgettable... This should of been a Netflix movie at best... Something you watch on a bad weather day and prob never watch it again

 

[tallblacknyc]

I felt kinda fucked up laughing at all the midget jokes the movie had!

Best part of the movie

 

[HAR125LEM]

On a side note: this movie was also real nostalgic too. I’m thinking the time period was supposed to be the early to mid 80s.

Honestly,
I nearly cried when the film began with this...

 

[TimRock]

He's only saying this to get social media attention.

 

[playahaitian]

He's only saying this to get social media attention.

If thats true he is utterly pathetic.

 

[shamone]

Saw it tonight. They've finally delivered a cinematic take on the Joker that many of us comic heads already experienced in the pages. A tragic tale similar to "The Killing Joke".

My only worry is that Incels will see this and strike out violently on others by seeing themselves as Author.

i still laugh at non pussy getting dudes calling themselves incels

 

[shamone]

Question to those that watched the movie. What happened to Zazie??

nothing. dude imagined a relationship with her.

 

[TimRock]

nothing. dude imagined a relationship with her.

I think he's asking what happened after he left her apt.

 

[donwuan]

I think the problem most people are having is that they are trying to fit this Joker in with the larger batman mythos. People are trying their best to rationalize this Jokers place into any existing batman story. This is just another interpretation.

Then why bring Bruce Wayne into the movie?

 

["THE MAN"]

I think the problem most people are having is that they are trying to fit this Joker in with the larger batman mythos. People are trying their best to rationalize this Jokers place into any existing batman story. This is just another interpretation.

Thats the problem with DC trying to start a universe without a plan. Now shit is all over the place and everything going forward is just going to cause more confusion. In a span of 3 years they have now created 3 Batman movie universes. BvS, Joker and the Robert Pattinson Batman.

 

[Dannyblueyes]

What if got out of this movie was that this entire fiasco was a figment of Arthur's imagination. The Joke/twist was that the Joker fooled the audience into believing his world of chaos and destruction is something that would actually take place a movie/real life.

Had the audience known this was all a hallucination of Authur while he was chilling in the Arkham Insane asylum high on 7 meds the story loses its shock value.

The ironic humor I found is that it kind of shits on my all comic book movies for the stupid leaps of faith they make the average watcher believe in. Not to say there aren't crazy people in this world. There clearly are enough of those but the assumption of any plot like the Joker as well as any comic book movie on a belief system that only

While I was watching the movie, certain parts I thought to myself, you gotta be kind of off too believe some of this shit. Like the black chick be cool with being followed to work then being perfectly fine with this same due randomly knocking on her door and kissing her out of no where.

I got the same feeling with some of the mob violence and Arthur's mother's random blabbering about Thomas Wayne. The kind man she claimed Wayne was, wasn't shit like the guy they keep showing on screen. I got the feeling that alot of the characters weren't who they appeared to be.

It think when he walked in the black chicks house unannounced and she was shocked he was in her apartment was the start of his imaginary crashing around him. The dream within the dream was slowly withering away as the effects on his meds were kicking in or wearing off.

When he was hsck finally in the insane asylum alone with the last doctor I figured it was all dream of Arthur's. No doctor is going to be left alone with a psychotic mass killer like the Joker for "therapy" purposes.

The real Arthur you saw at the beginning was a punk ass wuss who wouldn't buss grape. That's the"real" Arthur Fleck but in his head he was the Joker just like his mother thought she was Thomas Wayne's lover. It really doesn't matter what took place in that movie because it was all a vision in a crazy dudes head.

If you want to take anything constructive out of that movie it would be it's commentary on mental health. It doesn't fit in the MCU because a lot of the "plot" was just BS in Fleck's head. If you bring him into the MCU then the entire universe would evovle around if this is "real' or something in the Joker's head.

It's best to view this as a stand alone. I would hope any Riddler movie could be done this way as well with as little of the Wayne family as possible. Thomas and Bruce served their purpose this film but in the future the focus will have to be on the "villian" or central character(s?) for it to be a good follow up to this. Catwoman could be done in a dark f too if done in the correct tone/light.

I won't get heavy into any social commentary because the essence of the story is about the delusions of a mentally ill person. But I give Hollywood credit for taking the King of Comedy (you see Deniro got his check, you ain't jacking his movie for free) and combining it with a comic book flick. The Gotham back ground was 70s 80s NYC grimey X2 which set for a somewhat believable decent into the hell that is the mind of Arthur. Can't complain considering it could have been a flop if they didn't do this right.

I don't think the story could have been in Arthur's head. Parts of it may have been, but the overall narrative was real.

In order to be fake Arthur would have had to conduct an extremely elaborate delusion filled with a made-up job, made up co-workers, a made up apartment, and information about his own birth that he couldn't possibly have pulled from a complete fantasy.

He would have had to imagine himself not only as a comedian, but as a bad comedian who is broke as shit, lives with his mom, has zero social skills, and gets his ass whooped by young teenagers. It would be the opposite of delusions of grandeur.

Not only that, but he would have had to have imagined things in such a way that it perfectly fit into Batman's origin story from the first movie. The movie also fits loosely with one of Joker's origin stories from one of the comic books as well.

With that said, some parts of the movie are clearly imaginary. His relationship with his neighbor for instance. the ending would have had to been fake for the simple fact that he's not wearing handcuffs in the hallway.

as a side note, it's also interesting that he performs at pogos comedy club. Serial killer John Wayne Gacy used to perform at kids parties under the guise of Pogo the Clown.

 

[futureshock]

To quote one of dem other Jokers...here we go.

Hills’ star Brandon Lee opens up about depression after seeing ‘Joker’
By Eileen Reslen

October 9, 2019 | 12:22pm

Brandon Lee and Joaquin Phoenix as "The Joker."Getty Images ; Warner Bros

“The Hills: New Beginnings” star Brandon Lee revealed he has struggled with depression and anxiety his “entire life,” and is now advocating for those with mental health issues.

“I’ve dealt with depression and anxiety my entire life and I’ve been lucky enough to be able to afford treatment for that,” the 23-year-old shared on Instagram Tuesday. “It’s not fun, and untreated…. It doesn’t get better.”

Lee described what he feels during those dark times, saying, “There is no light at the end of the tunnel. You feel alone, helpless, and like there is no way out. You feel like you are drowning. Those sort of feelings can push someone to do anything.”

The reality star, who is the son of Pamela Anderson and rocker Tommy Lee, said he was inspired to speak out after watching the new “Joker” film, starring Joaquin Phoenix.


Lee said the country cannot continue to “pill everyone up” and needs to “do better.”

“We deprive them of counsel, medication, and aid to pay for those,” he added. “We tease them in our schools , outcast them as adults, and we are SURPRISED when people lash out in extreme fashion?? We blame gun laws after mass shootings when we should be looking at the individual?? It’s all backwards.”

“Joker” has been criticized for possibly inciting violence.

Phoenix, who plays the lead character, said in response, “I think that we are capable as an audience to see both of those things simultaneously and experience them and value them.”

Director Todd Phillips added, “We’re making a movie about a fictional character in a fictional world, ultimately, and your hope is that people take it for what it is. You can’t blame movies for a world that is so f–ked up that anything can trigger it."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pagesi...s-up-about-depression-after-seeing-joker/amp/

 

[shamone]

I don’t think he harm her. She never treated him bad. I think went to the apt because in his mind she was there for him while his mother was in the hospital.

I think he's asking what happened after he left her apt.

 

[shamone]

Honestly,
I nearly cried when the film began with this...

I just chuckled and smiled when I saw that in the screen

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

It's disrespectful to people with mental illness to say all mental illness is the same.
ITS NOT
The Joker had SEVERAL DISORDERS
so to just be like oh it makes people with mental illness look bad no it doesn't

 

[tallblacknyc]

It's disrespectful to people with mental illness to say all mental illness is the same.
ITS NOT
The Joker had SEVERAL DISORDERS
so to just be like oh it makes people with mental illness look bad no it doesn't

He was abused, suffered head trauma, a foster kid, raised in a unloving home, lied to and manipulated, an outcast, lacked social kills, bullied, was a virgin, created fake realities in his head to get through his depressing life

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

He was abused, suffered head trauma, a foster kid, raised in a unloving home, lied to and manipulated, an outcast, lacked social kills, bullied, was a virgin, created fake realities in his head to get through his depressing life

And all of that isn't a broad stroke of "mental illness" that is a very specific string of events that lead him to this point
but AGAIN we don't know if his real parents had mental illness in their family as well
we just don't know too much about the Joker but we know the end result he was fucking INSANE
maniac's are mentally ill people
so all mental illness isn't the same and calling the joker mentally ill has nothing to do with the other people in the world who are.

 

[tallblacknyc]

And all of that isn't a broad stroke of "mental illness" that is a very specific string of events that lead him to this point
but AGAIN we don't know if his real parents had mental illness in their family as well
we just don't know too much about the Joker but we know the end result he was fucking INSANE
maniac's are mentally ill people
so all mental illness isn't the same and calling the joker mentally ill has nothing to do with the other people in the world who are.

I was juss pointing out his back story of all the shit he went through from physical damage to bad upbringing, to sad everyday existence.. All that played a role into his eventual turn around

 

[fonzerrillii]

I'm trying to make sense of what he saying, especially since I haven't actually seen the film for myself.

Hold up..

You haven't seen the movie yet.

 

[fonzerrillii]

It's disrespectful to people with mental illness to say all mental illness is the same.
ITS NOT
The Joker had SEVERAL DISORDERS
so to just be like oh it makes people with mental illness look bad no it doesn't

As a dude with a Mental Illness.. I completely agree with all of this..

Not all mental illnesses are the same.

 

[therealjondoe]

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I was juss pointing out his back story of all the shit he went through from physical damage to bad upbringing, to sad everyday existence.. All that played a role into his eventual turn around

The main thing is he has no origin story so this is all intepretation and how they wanted to portray how he ended up with his illnesses.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

As a dude with a Mental Illness.. I completely agree with all of this..

Not all mental illnesses are the same.

Exactly the broad stroke being used is trash to try and discredit the movie
discredit the movie because it was missing the mania
they went for is this real is he crazy is it made up
when actually we know the answers are that they are real simply because its the fucking joker from batman
we know how the story keeps going.

i needed more terror i wasn't frightened of him i even thought of a way to make his final performance even more frightening if yall want to hear it