JOKER (2019) Discussion Thread Starring Joaquin Phoenix (Update 9/12/19) Leaked Footage.. GOOD GAWD
- Thread starter fonzerrillii
- Start date
What made it good?
There was nothing about this movie that stood out to me. It just was a plain Jane regular ass movie that had been done over and over in movies. I mean honestly you could say Michael Douglas' falling down was the JOKER origin movie. This shit was weak. Everybody talked about Phoenix and his performance, but damn what was good about it besides a fuckin laugh?
And how did a stand up set go viral in the 80's or whenever the hell this movie was set? They referenced it more than once that "everybody has saw this by now..."
HOW SWAY? HOW?
Honestly this movie could be broken down in a few scenes:
Finding out about his mother
The interaction with young Bruce
First kill
Kill on TV
That's the origin story. The end.
C'mon man this movie wasn't that good.
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What Joker Gets Right About Stand-Up Comedy
By Dan Reilly
Joaquin Phoenix during the open-mic scene in Joker. Photo: Warner Bros.
Joker is many things to many people — a misguided commentary on mental illness and sociopolitical rage, a glorification of incels, an antidote to “woke” culture, etc. etc. — but everyone can agree that, feelings aside, it tells the story of an aspiring stand-up comedian. And even though it’s not a funny movie, unless your sense of humor is beyond warped, it employs several bona fide comics: Marc Maron, Saturday Night Live’s Chris Redd, Late Night With Seth Meyers writer Ben Warheit (as one of the subway victims), and stand-ups Gary Gulman and Sam Morril playing themselves, performing snippets of their real-life acts at Gotham City club Pogo’s, where Arthur Fleck disastrously goes onstage at an open mic.
Given that director Todd Phillips strove to tell Joker’s origin story with gritty realism, it made sense that he chose real-life stand-ups for Arthur to emulate. Morril landed his role by getting a call from Phillips himself, while Gulman was suggested by a casting staffer. “It was out of the blue. I’m assuming that they couldn’t go with somebody too famous, because it would take you out of the scene,” Gulman tells Vulture. “I had no lines, but Todd and I went over what I wanted to do for jokes, and he said it needed to be something that wouldn’t flag what time period they were in.”
They ultimately went with Gulman’s bit about role-playing with his wife, while Morril did different segments from his act, with one about sex and cars making the final cut. “I was like, ‘If I’m at an open mic, do you want me to bomb?’” Morril recalls asking Phillips. “And he said, ‘No, do whatever.’ I said, ‘Good,’ because I don’t want to bomb with my own jokes. That’d be pretty weird: ‘Here’s my jokes not hitting in the biggest movie in the country.’” (Both comics also declined to tell friends they were in the movie, thinking their scenes might be cut.)
To give it the early-’80s feel, Phillips chose Dangerfield’s, Rodney Dangerfield’s longtime New York City club, as the filming location. “It’s a dated club, so they probably didn’t have to do that much to make it work,” says Gulman. “There were matchbooks that said Pogo’s on it, and the people in the audience were dressed in period outfits with their hair done, smoking cigarettes.” Though the extras for Morril’s set were welcoming — “I think they were expecting me to suck,” he says — Gulman had a harder time with the crowd at first.
“The first five or six takes, I was irritated because there was an extra laughing too loud. I was thinking, Are they trying to get a bigger part? They’re ruining my timing. Then I realized it was the Joker,” he recalls. “I didn’t think Joaquin Phoenix would be in my shot. I figured they’d have his stand-in. Once I calmed down from feeling like an idiot for not realizing who it was, it was really smooth.”
The scene may seem fairly insignificant, with Phoenix enjoying Gulman’s set and jotting down notes about eye contact and making jokes about sex, but the details are actually pivotal to Arthur’s attempts at comedy. “They made me a time-period suit. Phillips said, ‘Arthur would be learning from you and taking notes and he would try to dress like you.’ He even slicked his hair back like me,” Gulman recalls, noting that the point of his role-playing bit, in which he pretends to be a very strict professor, is that it’s not sexy at all. “He’s completely misinterpreting it. The other thing was that it was sad, because it was all couples at the show and he was by himself.”
Gary Gulman performs stand-up in Joker. Photo: Warner Bros.
It’s these mistakes that ultimately lead to Arthur’s embarrassing open-mic set, where he involuntarily cracks up and hallucinates both his success and the presence of his love interest. Morril got to watch Phoenix filming that scene and was blown away by how realistic it was. “It’s almost like you have PTSD from all the open mics you have to do to get good at this,” he says. “To their credit, that’s what an open mic is. You’re supposed to experiment and take risks, and that’s where you’re supposed to fail. But that’s why I really hated mics — I didn’t mind bombing, it was the sitting through all the bad comedy that made me really just hate life.”
By “bad comedy,” Morril means the kind of set like Arthur’s, where the comedian isn’t just not funny, they’re obviously not fully tethered to reality. What makes his take on Phoenix’s performance even more interesting is that, during filming, he didn’t know any of the context about the plot and, when he spoke with Vulture, he had yet to see the movie.
“There’s people who do comedy and don’t have any self-awareness. He’s a loner, right? Usually, when you have friends, they give you hints of what’s funny about you. That felt like a character who didn’t have friends guide him and tell him what was good. It felt like a very lost person. He tells that old, bad street joke, ‘I told them I want to be a comedian and everyone laughed at me, but no one’s laughing now!’ When you open with a joke that’s not yours, to me that shows fear that you’re not a good comic. He did that a few different ways, and each way made me uncomfortable. It was pretty hard to watch.”
According to an interview with Phillips, Phoenix was often so intense on the set that he’d walk off in the middle of takes to gather his thoughts. Neither Gulman or Morril saw anything as over the top as that, but both had interesting interactions with the star. “When I saw him in the makeup trailer, it seemed like he was like in character because he didn’t really make eye contact,” says Gulman. “He was friendly in that he smiled and nodded his head, but also maybe he just doesn’t feel comfortable around strangers. It’s hard to say, but he is really handsome.”
Morril’s was much different. “He chatted with me for a while and he was not what I expected,” Morril says. “I was scared to talk to him because I didn’t know if he’s the type of actor that stays in character in between takes. He said, ‘I really like your act because it’s just funny. Sometimes stand-up can feel desperate, and I don’t get that feeling from you at all.’ Maybe he was being nice to me as the Joker.”
Both also have visceral reactions to the plot point where Arthur’s set is filmed and goes viral, thanks to late-show host Murray Franklin, played by Robert De Niro. “[An open mic] is supposed to be a place where you risk absolute vulnerability,” says Morril. “Filming at a comedy club is terrible for a professional, but to do it to someone at their absolute worst is pretty cruel. But you know how that goes — it’s in people’s nature to be happy to see you in pain. It’s such an ugly quality.”
“The way that scene plays out, it’s just so uncomfortable. I could relate to that because probably early on in my career, you’re so desperate you would allow yourself to lose your dignity to get that. It was his dream,” Gulman says of Joker’s fateful appearance on Franklin’s show. “He was right about telling that guy off for embarrassing him. It was really cruel. At first, I thought, He got this break to go on the show, and if he had just not murdered anybody, maybe it could’ve helped him out — that it’s just that his timing was off. I felt so bad for him, and then, like all supervillains, he took it too far. You should never, never murder the host during the show for America to see. It’s just bad form.”
Robert De Niro and Joaquin Phoenix in Joker. Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Gulman, who shares his struggles with depression and anxiety in his new HBO special The Great Depresh, is ultimately sympathetic to Arthur/Joker, relating to the experience of needing mental health treatment but not being able to access it. The connection was formed well before the movie, when Gulman read the 1988 graphic novel Batman: The Killing Joke, which first gave Joker the backstory of being a failed comedian and partly inspired Phillips’s movie. “I was struggling with comedy when I read that because I was so new and it was so frustrating,” Gulman says. “I remember thinking, Only a failed comedian could have the frustration to go out there and become a supervillain, because it’s so humbling and you want to be good so bad. That origin story made more sense to me than falling in a vat of chemicals.”
It’s that, combined with Arthur’s horrifically excruciating open mic performance, that made Joker’s stand-up plotline ring true to Gulman. “You need that kind of delusion of, I’m going to be really great at this,” he says. “At first, you’re horrible and just flailing around. I don’t know how you can do it without confidence, but at the same time, you deserve no confidence because you’re so bad. So, it makes sense that you would have a bit of delusion. But then there’s this next level where people go on and tell very personal stories, and it makes me very uncomfortable watching.
“Some people, you could see This person has funny ideas. Other people, it was sad, and you hoped they would find their way at some point, but you would never see them do comedy again. They would just disappear from the scene. I never saw anybody as out there [like] Arthur, but there were people who you thought, Wow, this person is ill. I thought it was really accurate.”
Morril agrees with Gulman, but while he found the open-mic scene painful to watch on set, he loves knowing he got the experience to kill in Joker — in the good way of getting the most laughs. “I thought, Man, this is so uncomfortable, but also, I just went onstage, opened, and buried Joaquin Phoenix,” he says. “Like, how funny is that?”
By Dan Reilly
Joaquin Phoenix during the open-mic scene in Joker. Photo: Warner Bros.
Joker is many things to many people — a misguided commentary on mental illness and sociopolitical rage, a glorification of incels, an antidote to “woke” culture, etc. etc. — but everyone can agree that, feelings aside, it tells the story of an aspiring stand-up comedian. And even though it’s not a funny movie, unless your sense of humor is beyond warped, it employs several bona fide comics: Marc Maron, Saturday Night Live’s Chris Redd, Late Night With Seth Meyers writer Ben Warheit (as one of the subway victims), and stand-ups Gary Gulman and Sam Morril playing themselves, performing snippets of their real-life acts at Gotham City club Pogo’s, where Arthur Fleck disastrously goes onstage at an open mic.
Given that director Todd Phillips strove to tell Joker’s origin story with gritty realism, it made sense that he chose real-life stand-ups for Arthur to emulate. Morril landed his role by getting a call from Phillips himself, while Gulman was suggested by a casting staffer. “It was out of the blue. I’m assuming that they couldn’t go with somebody too famous, because it would take you out of the scene,” Gulman tells Vulture. “I had no lines, but Todd and I went over what I wanted to do for jokes, and he said it needed to be something that wouldn’t flag what time period they were in.”
They ultimately went with Gulman’s bit about role-playing with his wife, while Morril did different segments from his act, with one about sex and cars making the final cut. “I was like, ‘If I’m at an open mic, do you want me to bomb?’” Morril recalls asking Phillips. “And he said, ‘No, do whatever.’ I said, ‘Good,’ because I don’t want to bomb with my own jokes. That’d be pretty weird: ‘Here’s my jokes not hitting in the biggest movie in the country.’” (Both comics also declined to tell friends they were in the movie, thinking their scenes might be cut.)
To give it the early-’80s feel, Phillips chose Dangerfield’s, Rodney Dangerfield’s longtime New York City club, as the filming location. “It’s a dated club, so they probably didn’t have to do that much to make it work,” says Gulman. “There were matchbooks that said Pogo’s on it, and the people in the audience were dressed in period outfits with their hair done, smoking cigarettes.” Though the extras for Morril’s set were welcoming — “I think they were expecting me to suck,” he says — Gulman had a harder time with the crowd at first.
“The first five or six takes, I was irritated because there was an extra laughing too loud. I was thinking, Are they trying to get a bigger part? They’re ruining my timing. Then I realized it was the Joker,” he recalls. “I didn’t think Joaquin Phoenix would be in my shot. I figured they’d have his stand-in. Once I calmed down from feeling like an idiot for not realizing who it was, it was really smooth.”
The scene may seem fairly insignificant, with Phoenix enjoying Gulman’s set and jotting down notes about eye contact and making jokes about sex, but the details are actually pivotal to Arthur’s attempts at comedy. “They made me a time-period suit. Phillips said, ‘Arthur would be learning from you and taking notes and he would try to dress like you.’ He even slicked his hair back like me,” Gulman recalls, noting that the point of his role-playing bit, in which he pretends to be a very strict professor, is that it’s not sexy at all. “He’s completely misinterpreting it. The other thing was that it was sad, because it was all couples at the show and he was by himself.”
Gary Gulman performs stand-up in Joker. Photo: Warner Bros.
It’s these mistakes that ultimately lead to Arthur’s embarrassing open-mic set, where he involuntarily cracks up and hallucinates both his success and the presence of his love interest. Morril got to watch Phoenix filming that scene and was blown away by how realistic it was. “It’s almost like you have PTSD from all the open mics you have to do to get good at this,” he says. “To their credit, that’s what an open mic is. You’re supposed to experiment and take risks, and that’s where you’re supposed to fail. But that’s why I really hated mics — I didn’t mind bombing, it was the sitting through all the bad comedy that made me really just hate life.”
By “bad comedy,” Morril means the kind of set like Arthur’s, where the comedian isn’t just not funny, they’re obviously not fully tethered to reality. What makes his take on Phoenix’s performance even more interesting is that, during filming, he didn’t know any of the context about the plot and, when he spoke with Vulture, he had yet to see the movie.
“There’s people who do comedy and don’t have any self-awareness. He’s a loner, right? Usually, when you have friends, they give you hints of what’s funny about you. That felt like a character who didn’t have friends guide him and tell him what was good. It felt like a very lost person. He tells that old, bad street joke, ‘I told them I want to be a comedian and everyone laughed at me, but no one’s laughing now!’ When you open with a joke that’s not yours, to me that shows fear that you’re not a good comic. He did that a few different ways, and each way made me uncomfortable. It was pretty hard to watch.”
According to an interview with Phillips, Phoenix was often so intense on the set that he’d walk off in the middle of takes to gather his thoughts. Neither Gulman or Morril saw anything as over the top as that, but both had interesting interactions with the star. “When I saw him in the makeup trailer, it seemed like he was like in character because he didn’t really make eye contact,” says Gulman. “He was friendly in that he smiled and nodded his head, but also maybe he just doesn’t feel comfortable around strangers. It’s hard to say, but he is really handsome.”
Morril’s was much different. “He chatted with me for a while and he was not what I expected,” Morril says. “I was scared to talk to him because I didn’t know if he’s the type of actor that stays in character in between takes. He said, ‘I really like your act because it’s just funny. Sometimes stand-up can feel desperate, and I don’t get that feeling from you at all.’ Maybe he was being nice to me as the Joker.”
Both also have visceral reactions to the plot point where Arthur’s set is filmed and goes viral, thanks to late-show host Murray Franklin, played by Robert De Niro. “[An open mic] is supposed to be a place where you risk absolute vulnerability,” says Morril. “Filming at a comedy club is terrible for a professional, but to do it to someone at their absolute worst is pretty cruel. But you know how that goes — it’s in people’s nature to be happy to see you in pain. It’s such an ugly quality.”
“The way that scene plays out, it’s just so uncomfortable. I could relate to that because probably early on in my career, you’re so desperate you would allow yourself to lose your dignity to get that. It was his dream,” Gulman says of Joker’s fateful appearance on Franklin’s show. “He was right about telling that guy off for embarrassing him. It was really cruel. At first, I thought, He got this break to go on the show, and if he had just not murdered anybody, maybe it could’ve helped him out — that it’s just that his timing was off. I felt so bad for him, and then, like all supervillains, he took it too far. You should never, never murder the host during the show for America to see. It’s just bad form.”
Robert De Niro and Joaquin Phoenix in Joker. Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Gulman, who shares his struggles with depression and anxiety in his new HBO special The Great Depresh, is ultimately sympathetic to Arthur/Joker, relating to the experience of needing mental health treatment but not being able to access it. The connection was formed well before the movie, when Gulman read the 1988 graphic novel Batman: The Killing Joke, which first gave Joker the backstory of being a failed comedian and partly inspired Phillips’s movie. “I was struggling with comedy when I read that because I was so new and it was so frustrating,” Gulman says. “I remember thinking, Only a failed comedian could have the frustration to go out there and become a supervillain, because it’s so humbling and you want to be good so bad. That origin story made more sense to me than falling in a vat of chemicals.”
It’s that, combined with Arthur’s horrifically excruciating open mic performance, that made Joker’s stand-up plotline ring true to Gulman. “You need that kind of delusion of, I’m going to be really great at this,” he says. “At first, you’re horrible and just flailing around. I don’t know how you can do it without confidence, but at the same time, you deserve no confidence because you’re so bad. So, it makes sense that you would have a bit of delusion. But then there’s this next level where people go on and tell very personal stories, and it makes me very uncomfortable watching.
“Some people, you could see This person has funny ideas. Other people, it was sad, and you hoped they would find their way at some point, but you would never see them do comedy again. They would just disappear from the scene. I never saw anybody as out there [like] Arthur, but there were people who you thought, Wow, this person is ill. I thought it was really accurate.”
Morril agrees with Gulman, but while he found the open-mic scene painful to watch on set, he loves knowing he got the experience to kill in Joker — in the good way of getting the most laughs. “I thought, Man, this is so uncomfortable, but also, I just went onstage, opened, and buried Joaquin Phoenix,” he says. “Like, how funny is that?”
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Yeah I can see Falling down as a comparison for the Joker. Underrated flick
Dude. You are so on point. This movie took from Falling Down.
I think the "One Bad Day" storyline definitely took from Falling Down and this movie took from that.
I think the "One Bad Day" storyline definitely took from Falling Down and this movie took from that.
There is no 'real' joker origin story, even in the comics. Which is why you can have a million different origins which range from vague to vastly different specifically, and they can all work depending on the execution of the storytelling. It's not like Batman where the variances of his origin end with him having to witness his parents being killed in an alley outside the movies.
ID10T Episode 1022 – Joaquin Phoenix
Joaquin Phoenix chats all about Joker on the ID10T podcast!
id10t.com
Joaquin Phoenix
Joaquin Phoenix chats with Chris about preparing for his role in Joker, what it was like playing such an emotional character and working with director Todd Phillips. They also talk about how angry spoilers make people, Joaquin talks about the one time he played video games and how he navigates...
art19.com
/Filmcast Ep. 537 - Joker (GUEST: Bob Chipman From Escapist Magazine)
David, Devindra, and Jeff are joined by Bob Chipman (aka MovieBob), film critic from escapistmagazine.com, moviebobcentral.com, and creator of The Big Picture, to review Joker. Find out whether the latest movie by director Todd Phillips starring Joaquin Phoenix helped them put on a happy face...
www.slashfilm.com
Features - SlashFilm
Longform lists, rankings, and explainers, these are the articles that set out to challenge, provoke, inform, and generally give you a full meal to enjoy.
www.slashfilm.com
David, Devindra, and Jeff are joined by Bob Chipman (aka MovieBob), film critic from escapistmagazine.com, moviebobcentral.com, and creator of The Big Picture, to review Joker. Find out whether the latest movie by director Todd Phillips starring Joaquin Phoenix helped them put on a happy face.
Read MovieBob’s review of Joker here. Read New Yorker’s Richard Brody review of Joker here. Watch David’s Youtube video on how filmmakers Zeek Earl and Matt Acosta designed the space helmets of the film Prospect here. And listen to the /Film Daily review of Joker here.
You can always e-mail us at slashfilmcast(AT)gmail(DOT)com, or call and leave a voicemail at 781-583-1993. Also, follow us on Twitter or like us on Facebook.
“You’ve Got to Stop This”: Jared Leto Fumed Over New ‘Joker’ Movie
Jared Leto, who played the character in 'Suicide Squad,' felt "alienated and upset" when Warner Bros. greenlit Todd Phillips' 'Joker' movie with Joaquin Phoenix.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Jared Leto was 'tried to get the new Joker film killed'
The Oscar winner actor played the villain in the 2016 DC Comics adaptation, left. Warner Bros.' Joker starring Joaquin Phoenix, right, has been a hit with critics and audiences alike.
Box Office: ‘Joker’ to Become Top-Grossing R-Rated Pic of All Time
'Joker' is well on its way to becoming the top-grossing R-rated film of all time at the global box office, not adjusted for inflation.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Joker
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Jared Leto Was Reportedly Hell-Bent on Preventing Joker From Being Made
By Devon Ivie@devonsaysrelax
Photo: Clay Enos/Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
He’s a joker, he’s a smoker, he’s a midnight toker, and he’s reportedly also a petty li’l thespian who thinks he owns the trademark for the clown prince of crime. Per some juicy intel over at THR, Jared Leto, who portrayed the Joker in 2016’s much-reviled Suicide Squad, was so pissed off that Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix’s standalone Joker origin drama was green-lit at Warner Bros. that he tried to get the studio to “kill” the film. Leto’s “alienated and upset” behavior, THR explains, stemmed from the actor wanting his own standalone Joker film, which was being teased as a possibility as recently as last year. (Now, the likelihood of his own Harlequin of Hate movie is slim to none, and he feels he was unfairly “strung along.”) Leto’s behind-the-scenes behavior while filming Suicide Squad — which included sending castmates disgusting “gifts” such as dead rats, anal beads, and semen-soaked magazines — also apparently didn’t win him any favors with the studio. But it was on-brand!
@ViCiouS @fonzerrillii @largebillsonlyplease
By Devon Ivie@devonsaysrelax
Photo: Clay Enos/Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
He’s a joker, he’s a smoker, he’s a midnight toker, and he’s reportedly also a petty li’l thespian who thinks he owns the trademark for the clown prince of crime. Per some juicy intel over at THR, Jared Leto, who portrayed the Joker in 2016’s much-reviled Suicide Squad, was so pissed off that Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix’s standalone Joker origin drama was green-lit at Warner Bros. that he tried to get the studio to “kill” the film. Leto’s “alienated and upset” behavior, THR explains, stemmed from the actor wanting his own standalone Joker film, which was being teased as a possibility as recently as last year. (Now, the likelihood of his own Harlequin of Hate movie is slim to none, and he feels he was unfairly “strung along.”) Leto’s behind-the-scenes behavior while filming Suicide Squad — which included sending castmates disgusting “gifts” such as dead rats, anal beads, and semen-soaked magazines — also apparently didn’t win him any favors with the studio. But it was on-brand!
@ViCiouS @fonzerrillii @largebillsonlyplease
"You've Got to Stop This": Jared Leto Fumed Over New 'Joker' Movie
OCTOBER 19, 2019 7:45AM by Kim Masters
Jared Leto in 'Suicide Squad' (2016) | Courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures
The actor, who played the character in 'Suicide Squad,' felt "alienated and upset" when Warner Bros. greenlit Todd Phillips' version with Joaquin Phoenix instead.
Just how unhappy was Jared Leto over Joker? As Todd Phillips’ dark take on the villain looks likely to gross more than $700 million worldwide, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that Leto’s frustration that Warner Bros. was moving ahead with the Phillips project was so great early on that he tried to throttle the rival Joker in its cradle.
According to sources familiar with Leto’s behavior, when the Oscar-winning actor learned of the Phillips project, he not only complained bitterly to his agents at CAA, who also represent Phillips, but asked his music manager, Irving Azoff, to call the leader of Warners parent company (it’s unclear whether it was Time Warner’s Jeff Bewkes or AT&T’s Randall Stephenson, depending on the timing). The idea was to get Warners to kill the Phillips film
A source in Leto’s camp denies that the actor made this request, and Azoff declined to comment. Azoff and Leto have since parted ways.
THR previously reported that the 47-year-old star, who played the grinning crime lord in 2016's Suicide Squad, thought Warners had strung him along with promises of his own Joker stand-alone film, only to greenlight the Phillips' version with Joaquin Phoenix instead. Ironically, Warners thought the Phillips project would be a small movie and, nervous about its dark tone, greenlit the pic reluctantly with a small budget that some at the studio were hoping would discourage Phillips from making it.
Warners declined to comment.
Leto had put a lot of effort into his Suicide Squad version of the DC villain, with rotting teeth, bloodshot eyes and slicked-back neon green hair. He spent months getting into character and terrifying his castmates with “gifts” such as a live rat to Harley Quinn actress Margot Robbie, bullets to Deadshot actor Will Smith and a dead pig to the entire cast during rehearsal.
It turns out that the studio wasn’t thrilled with these efforts, says a source with knowledge of the situation. And it seems the director wasn’t that pleased with the resulting performance: In the final cut of David Ayer’s ensemble antihero movie, Leto’s Joker got only about 10 minutes of screen time. While promoting the project, Leto — who had been billed as a lead character — spoke to media about how much footage of his Joker had been cut.
“In his defense, it was never really his movie, but his attempt to 'invent' a place for himself in it backfired,” says a source involved in the situation.
Leto's representative says the actor is still happily working with Warner Bros. and notes that he's currently shooting John Lee Hancock’s Little Things, starring alongside Rami Malek and Denzel Washington, there.
Meanwhile, Leto’s unhappiness over the Phillips project seems to have helped end an already strained relationship between Leto and CAA. Sources say the actor felt his agents should have told him about the Phillips project earlier and fought harder for his version of Joker. Sources say Leto told his agents that they should stop the rival project, arguing that he wasn’t being treated properly as an Oscar winner (for Dallas Buyers Club). But a person with first-hand knowledge of the situation contends that by then, Leto had burned through four different teams of agents at CAA and there was little love for the actor there.
Leto left CAA for rival WME over the summer. A source in Leto’s camp says the rocker-actor had been looking to make a switch and denies that the competing Joker movies factored into his decision.
At this point, sources say Leto’s days as the Joker likely are over. He will not reprise the role for Warners' upcoming DC movies Birds of Prey (a spinoff centered on Robbie's Harley Quinn) or in James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, due out in 2021. Says one person involved in the situation: "How do you play the Joker you established following [Phoenix]? It kind of ends his Joker run.”
OCTOBER 19, 2019 7:45AM by Kim Masters
Jared Leto in 'Suicide Squad' (2016) | Courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures
The actor, who played the character in 'Suicide Squad,' felt "alienated and upset" when Warner Bros. greenlit Todd Phillips' version with Joaquin Phoenix instead.
Just how unhappy was Jared Leto over Joker? As Todd Phillips’ dark take on the villain looks likely to gross more than $700 million worldwide, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that Leto’s frustration that Warner Bros. was moving ahead with the Phillips project was so great early on that he tried to throttle the rival Joker in its cradle.
According to sources familiar with Leto’s behavior, when the Oscar-winning actor learned of the Phillips project, he not only complained bitterly to his agents at CAA, who also represent Phillips, but asked his music manager, Irving Azoff, to call the leader of Warners parent company (it’s unclear whether it was Time Warner’s Jeff Bewkes or AT&T’s Randall Stephenson, depending on the timing). The idea was to get Warners to kill the Phillips film
A source in Leto’s camp denies that the actor made this request, and Azoff declined to comment. Azoff and Leto have since parted ways.
THR previously reported that the 47-year-old star, who played the grinning crime lord in 2016's Suicide Squad, thought Warners had strung him along with promises of his own Joker stand-alone film, only to greenlight the Phillips' version with Joaquin Phoenix instead. Ironically, Warners thought the Phillips project would be a small movie and, nervous about its dark tone, greenlit the pic reluctantly with a small budget that some at the studio were hoping would discourage Phillips from making it.
Warners declined to comment.
Leto had put a lot of effort into his Suicide Squad version of the DC villain, with rotting teeth, bloodshot eyes and slicked-back neon green hair. He spent months getting into character and terrifying his castmates with “gifts” such as a live rat to Harley Quinn actress Margot Robbie, bullets to Deadshot actor Will Smith and a dead pig to the entire cast during rehearsal.
It turns out that the studio wasn’t thrilled with these efforts, says a source with knowledge of the situation. And it seems the director wasn’t that pleased with the resulting performance: In the final cut of David Ayer’s ensemble antihero movie, Leto’s Joker got only about 10 minutes of screen time. While promoting the project, Leto — who had been billed as a lead character — spoke to media about how much footage of his Joker had been cut.
“In his defense, it was never really his movie, but his attempt to 'invent' a place for himself in it backfired,” says a source involved in the situation.
Leto's representative says the actor is still happily working with Warner Bros. and notes that he's currently shooting John Lee Hancock’s Little Things, starring alongside Rami Malek and Denzel Washington, there.
Meanwhile, Leto’s unhappiness over the Phillips project seems to have helped end an already strained relationship between Leto and CAA. Sources say the actor felt his agents should have told him about the Phillips project earlier and fought harder for his version of Joker. Sources say Leto told his agents that they should stop the rival project, arguing that he wasn’t being treated properly as an Oscar winner (for Dallas Buyers Club). But a person with first-hand knowledge of the situation contends that by then, Leto had burned through four different teams of agents at CAA and there was little love for the actor there.
Leto left CAA for rival WME over the summer. A source in Leto’s camp says the rocker-actor had been looking to make a switch and denies that the competing Joker movies factored into his decision.
At this point, sources say Leto’s days as the Joker likely are over. He will not reprise the role for Warners' upcoming DC movies Birds of Prey (a spinoff centered on Robbie's Harley Quinn) or in James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, due out in 2021. Says one person involved in the situation: "How do you play the Joker you established following [Phoenix]? It kind of ends his Joker run.”
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Jared Leto Was Reportedly Hell-Bent on Preventing Joker From Being Made
By Devon Ivie@devonsaysrelax
Photo: Clay Enos/Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
He’s a joker, he’s a smoker, he’s a midnight toker, and he’s reportedly also a petty li’l thespian who thinks he owns the trademark for the clown prince of crime. Per some juicy intel over at THR, Jared Leto, who portrayed the Joker in 2016’s much-reviled Suicide Squad, was so pissed off that Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix’s standalone Joker origin drama was green-lit at Warner Bros. that he tried to get the studio to “kill” the film. Leto’s “alienated and upset” behavior, THR explains, stemmed from the actor wanting his own standalone Joker film, which was being teased as a possibility as recently as last year. (Now, the likelihood of his own Harlequin of Hate movie is slim to none, and he feels he was unfairly “strung along.”) Leto’s behind-the-scenes behavior while filming Suicide Squad — which included sending castmates disgusting “gifts” such as dead rats, anal beads, and semen-soaked magazines — also apparently didn’t win him any favors with the studio. But it was on-brand!
@ViCiouS @fonzerrillii @largebillsonlyplease
Well we see how much pull he has
that man is SERIOUSLY deranged...
Jared Leto Put His Blood, Sweat, and Tears Into the Role of the Joker — Oh Yes, and Also His Semen
By Nate Jones
A stroke of genius. Photo: Todd Williamson/Getty Images
Good morning! Are you ready to learn about more terrible things Jared Leto did to the Suicide Squad cast? No? Too bad! You clicked this post, which was your choice, and now you have to hear about it. I know, I’m not proud of my part in this either, but I do want to stress that most of the blame lies with you. Anyway. As Leto told E! News, as part of his efforts to “to create an element of surprise, a spontaneity and to really break down any kind of walls that may be there,” he took to sending his co-stars random disgusting little gifts, as if he was the worst grandmother in the world. Yes, yes, you’ve already heard about Margot Robbie’s rat, and the pig carcass, but as Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje told E!, the method actor also sent him “sticky Playboy magazines.” That wasn’t the only semen-themed gift: Leto also revealed that he sent the cast anal beads and a used condom. What’s the protocol there? Is it better to send your co-stars a condom full of your own semen, or someone else’s? Either way, it’s probably an OSHA violation, to be honest.
The 19 Most Twisted Things Joker Does in Joker, Ranked
By Nate Jones@kn8
He’s a real wild and crazy guy. Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Ever since Joker premiered at the Venice Film Festival, both supporters and detractors have painted the film as a searing portrait of depravity. The Guardian dubbed it “a tale that’s almost as twisted as the man at its centre, bulging with ideas and pitching towards anarchy.” Indiewire called it “one of the most transgressive studio blockbusters of the 21st Century.” In the weeks since, the movie’s marketing has been all too happy to spread that message, with many fans, and even some police departments, now convinced that Joker is the second coming of Cannibal Holocaust. But is that true? In order to provide moviegoers with as much information as possible before they decide whether or not to see Joker, here is a comprehensive list of the deviant acts that Joker performs in Joker, ranked from least to most evil.
Warning: This list contains light spoilers.
Tier I: A Little Strange
19. Visits a comedy club, but laughs at the setups.
18. Regularly bathes his elderly mother.
17. Gives people a creepy smile.
16. Makes his therapist read his “joke journal.”
15. Dances shirtless with a gun in the privacy of his own home.
14. Shows up at a young boy’s house and gives him an impromptu magic show.
Tier II: Microaggressions
13. Says the word “telly” to a British person.
12. Dances to “Rock and Roll Part 2” even though Gary Glitter has been canceled.
11. Calls Brian Tyree Henry “brother.”
10. Kisses an old woman on live TV.
Tier III: Truly Mad
9. Honks a horn to interrupt those who displease him.
8. When confronted with someone else’s misfortune, he actually laughs.
7. Walks in through an “out” door.
6. Claims, “I don’t believe in anything.”
5. Climbs into a fridge even though there’s no nuke around.
4. Crosses out a sign that says, “Don’t Forget to Laugh” so that it becomes “Don’t Laugh.”
Tier IV: High Crimes and Misdemeanors
3. Murder.
2. Strikes up a conversation with a stranger in a movie-theater bathroom.
1. Continues an interaction with his neighbor after they get off an elevator together.
Wow. I have nothing else to say except that’s chilling. Will you be able to handle it?
By Nate Jones@kn8
He’s a real wild and crazy guy. Photo: Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros.
Ever since Joker premiered at the Venice Film Festival, both supporters and detractors have painted the film as a searing portrait of depravity. The Guardian dubbed it “a tale that’s almost as twisted as the man at its centre, bulging with ideas and pitching towards anarchy.” Indiewire called it “one of the most transgressive studio blockbusters of the 21st Century.” In the weeks since, the movie’s marketing has been all too happy to spread that message, with many fans, and even some police departments, now convinced that Joker is the second coming of Cannibal Holocaust. But is that true? In order to provide moviegoers with as much information as possible before they decide whether or not to see Joker, here is a comprehensive list of the deviant acts that Joker performs in Joker, ranked from least to most evil.
Warning: This list contains light spoilers.
Tier I: A Little Strange
19. Visits a comedy club, but laughs at the setups.
18. Regularly bathes his elderly mother.
17. Gives people a creepy smile.
16. Makes his therapist read his “joke journal.”
15. Dances shirtless with a gun in the privacy of his own home.
14. Shows up at a young boy’s house and gives him an impromptu magic show.
Tier II: Microaggressions
13. Says the word “telly” to a British person.
12. Dances to “Rock and Roll Part 2” even though Gary Glitter has been canceled.
11. Calls Brian Tyree Henry “brother.”
10. Kisses an old woman on live TV.
Tier III: Truly Mad
9. Honks a horn to interrupt those who displease him.
8. When confronted with someone else’s misfortune, he actually laughs.
7. Walks in through an “out” door.
6. Claims, “I don’t believe in anything.”
5. Climbs into a fridge even though there’s no nuke around.
4. Crosses out a sign that says, “Don’t Forget to Laugh” so that it becomes “Don’t Laugh.”
Tier IV: High Crimes and Misdemeanors
3. Murder.
2. Strikes up a conversation with a stranger in a movie-theater bathroom.
1. Continues an interaction with his neighbor after they get off an elevator together.
Wow. I have nothing else to say except that’s chilling. Will you be able to handle it?
That's why his character was bad lol
A method actor choosing the wrong method showed through and through.
Joker Wildly High-Kicking Its Way to the Biggest R-Rated Worldwide Box Office Ever
By Halle Kiefer@hallekiefer
Photo: Warner Bros.
Well, looks like the joke’s on… well, no one. Warner Bros. was clearly betting hard on Todd Phillips’ dive into the DC Universe and everyone and the academy already knew Joaquin Phoenix is no slouch as a leading man. Still, it’s pretty impressive to watch as Joker continues to sprint wild-eyed and loose-limbed toward a potential $900 million* box office (or greater!), on track to become the highest grossing R-rated film of all time.
Over the weekend, the film’s third, Joker earned $107 million, bringing the movie’s worldwide box office to over $737 million and climbing, and, as Deadline points out, that’s all without premiering in China. Now Joker need only surpass Deadpool’s $783 million at the box office. (Deadpool 2 earned $785 million, but that included the earnings of Deadpool 2’s PG-13 holiday re-release). Of course, since this is the story of Arthur Fleck, a story which teaches us that the world is…unfair? Complicated? A stage?, Joker may rake in the highest dollar amount, but that amount is not adjusted for inflation.
By Halle Kiefer@hallekiefer
Photo: Warner Bros.
Well, looks like the joke’s on… well, no one. Warner Bros. was clearly betting hard on Todd Phillips’ dive into the DC Universe and everyone and the academy already knew Joaquin Phoenix is no slouch as a leading man. Still, it’s pretty impressive to watch as Joker continues to sprint wild-eyed and loose-limbed toward a potential $900 million* box office (or greater!), on track to become the highest grossing R-rated film of all time.
Over the weekend, the film’s third, Joker earned $107 million, bringing the movie’s worldwide box office to over $737 million and climbing, and, as Deadline points out, that’s all without premiering in China. Now Joker need only surpass Deadpool’s $783 million at the box office. (Deadpool 2 earned $785 million, but that included the earnings of Deadpool 2’s PG-13 holiday re-release). Of course, since this is the story of Arthur Fleck, a story which teaches us that the world is…unfair? Complicated? A stage?, Joker may rake in the highest dollar amount, but that amount is not adjusted for inflation.
Movie marketing isn't that smart. Twitter's and facebooks assumptions and fear-mongering are what got the ball rolling.
The Batman shooting theater said announced they wasn't going to show it, which lead to the victim's response, which started the media response and then all the rumors started.
It's going to happen again when the next film comes out.
Loki, Thanos and Doctor Strange. That's it. All the other characters are lame AF.
Direction was good
Phoenix was good - but no one was doubting that
We didn't need the 'flashback' scene at the end showing the hospital, comedy club, etc...(I ain't sure if we doing spoilers)
Still trying to figure out if the end is a dream or was everything before the end a dream
Super rats. I saw the Super rats.
The writing I thought was going to be worse, but it was decent. Some things were very cliche, but I was still entertained.
The big kicker is we feel bad for Fleck. And we shouldn't because he kills people. But it's not entirely his fault...I wish I could watch and type at the same time.
Phoenix was good - but no one was doubting that
We didn't need the 'flashback' scene at the end showing the hospital, comedy club, etc...(I ain't sure if we doing spoilers)
Still trying to figure out if the end is a dream or was everything before the end a dream
Super rats. I saw the Super rats.
The writing I thought was going to be worse, but it was decent. Some things were very cliche, but I was still entertained.
The big kicker is we feel bad for Fleck. And we shouldn't because he kills people. But it's not entirely his fault...I wish I could watch and type at the same time.
I didn't feel bad for him. He didn't face any real crazy hardship just real life stuff.
He was crazy from the beginning and then acted it out.
you would love it even more if you got to see what would happen if they stayed out there after sun set without a constant police presence ...
That's why I love it.
I want people to get the authentic experience
Go there at night.
Bring valuables and cash
Go as late as possible, preferably after 11 pm
Box Office: How ‘Joker’ Became Insanely Profitable
Warner Bros.' "Joker" has become one of the most profitable superhero movies of all time.
variety.com
Box Office: Villains Face Off Again as ‘Joker’ and ‘Maleficent’ Battle for First Place
Domestic box office charts look to be dominated by holdovers Warner Bros.' "Joker" and Disney's "Maleficent: Mistress of Evil"
variety.com
Joker
variety.com