Official Discussion: Loki on Disney+ June 11 2021 UPDATE: Season 2 - Oct. 6
- Thread starter playahaitian
- Start date
Alternate times not the same as alternate universes/dimension/realities. That shit can make you go mad.
Fellas, I just had a thought......You know how when non-black folks mock the original "woke"/hotep brothers with the " We Wuz KANGS"?
They picked Jonathan Majors to play, well, Kang. In Loki, He that Remains (aka Immortus) says the various names folks have called him..
Is
- is Marvel trolling the Conscious community
?
A few things...
Stop calling He That Remains Kang. The statue at the end, that's Kang. He That Remains is better known as Immortus.
He basically explained who he was in the show, so I won't go into it.
However, y'all got timelines, universes & what's going on here mixed up.
The timeline doesn't create new universes, it creates divergent timelines from the point of the branch. The Nexus events are the changes from diverging from the main timeline. It may seem a different universe but it is not, it's just a different timeline.
If the main timeline is a straight line & divergent timelines are like branches, reality would be like the bark on the tree, a cover to block your perception of the alternate timelines.
For example: Cap was frozen, ya ya ya, y'all know the story. Now, how about if Kang jumped in time & killed Dr. Erskine before he recruited Cap. That would create a Nexus event that fractures the main timeline & now you might have a Nazi-ruled America in 2020. It's still the same Earth as ours, just different because of the changes.
The "Kangs" from the different timelines of Earth (which each "Kang" would consider his main universe) in the 31st century found a way, bit by bit, to traverse time. This caused a Nexus event, each time, causing rampant destruction. The Citadel is probably the site of the Multiversal War & is probably a limbo space not affected by space/time. This is what drove him "insane" & made him Immortus-a keeper of time, as opposed to Kang, who is basically the conqueror version he spoke about. He That Remains basically fought & defeated/killed off any "Kang" that came from a divergent timeline (i.e. variants) for eons before he probably realizes exactly what was going on with the timeline.
The main timeline continued to branch due to him being there in the past from the future. He is the first variant in the main timeline & his very existence makes the timeline diverge. So, to prevent further excursions, he created the TVA to prune the timeline, using abducted variants. By staying in the Citadel/Limbo space, he doesn't cause Nexus events.
This also explains why Cap was able to do what he did in Endgame. He jumped back to the divergent timelines (more than likely with the stones' help), lived a life in one of the divergent Earths with Peggy, then returned to main timeline Earth with no consequences, being that he was from the main timeline. It would also explain why Scarlet Witch heard her kids at the end of WandaVision. She is a walking, breathing Nexus event, and ruptures reality (scrapes away the bark) with every use of her powers.
At least, that's what I get from it.
Stop calling He That Remains Kang. The statue at the end, that's Kang. He That Remains is better known as Immortus.
He basically explained who he was in the show, so I won't go into it.
However, y'all got timelines, universes & what's going on here mixed up.
The timeline doesn't create new universes, it creates divergent timelines from the point of the branch. The Nexus events are the changes from diverging from the main timeline. It may seem a different universe but it is not, it's just a different timeline.
If the main timeline is a straight line & divergent timelines are like branches, reality would be like the bark on the tree, a cover to block your perception of the alternate timelines.
For example: Cap was frozen, ya ya ya, y'all know the story. Now, how about if Kang jumped in time & killed Dr. Erskine before he recruited Cap. That would create a Nexus event that fractures the main timeline & now you might have a Nazi-ruled America in 2020. It's still the same Earth as ours, just different because of the changes.
The "Kangs" from the different timelines of Earth (which each "Kang" would consider his main universe) in the 31st century found a way, bit by bit, to traverse time. This caused a Nexus event, each time, causing rampant destruction. The Citadel is probably the site of the Multiversal War & is probably a limbo space not affected by space/time. This is what drove him "insane" & made him Immortus-a keeper of time, as opposed to Kang, who is basically the conqueror version he spoke about. He That Remains basically fought & defeated/killed off any "Kang" that came from a divergent timeline (i.e. variants) for eons before he probably realizes exactly what was going on with the timeline.
The main timeline continued to branch due to him being there in the past from the future. He is the first variant in the main timeline & his very existence makes the timeline diverge. So, to prevent further excursions, he created the TVA to prune the timeline, using abducted variants. By staying in the Citadel/Limbo space, he doesn't cause Nexus events.
This also explains why Cap was able to do what he did in Endgame. He jumped back to the divergent timelines (more than likely with the stones' help), lived a life in one of the divergent Earths with Peggy, then returned to main timeline Earth with no consequences, being that he was from the main timeline. It would also explain why Scarlet Witch heard her kids at the end of WandaVision. She is a walking, breathing Nexus event, and ruptures reality (scrapes away the bark) with every use of her powers.
At least, that's what I get from it.
Although it doesn't make much sense. FONZ explains it how they intend it to be. Different time lines are indeed different universes
Love it!!!!
Haven't participated but I've been watching.
Immortus
Kang
Karen
Multiverse!!!
We officially have the perfect actor for the villain in the next phase
I mean NOBODY could pull off variants of themselves better than Johnathan Majors PERIOD
We are so fucking lucky and in for a treat.
Season was good. blah blah
Haven't participated but I've been watching.
Immortus
Kang
Karen
Multiverse!!!
We officially have the perfect actor for the villain in the next phase
I mean NOBODY could pull off variants of themselves better than Johnathan Majors PERIOD
We are so fucking lucky and in for a treat.
Season was good. blah blah
It wasn't branches that had him shook also he wasn't shook
He knew everything up until the barrier he said they crossed. He didn't know what decision they'd make
That's all
Black man, I found it, I fixed it, some kind of peace
cac, no it’s war time
Jonathan Majors did a great job in his portrayal of this version of Kang. I loved how he displayed and talked about his origin and purpose. Can't wait to see the "true" Kang. I also loved the religious undertones. The beautiful branching of the multiverse.Loki seeing the statue of Kang was like Taylor seeing the Statue of Liberty on the beach in Planet of The Apes. Yes there was a ton of exposition and the after credits scene was like well ok..... but at least with this and Falcon & The Winter Soldier you felt there was great movement in the Marvel Universe. WandaVision had its moments but not like the 2 aforementioned shows.
You know how when non-black folks mock the original "woke"/hotep brothers with the " We Wuz KANGS"?
They picked Jonathan Majors to play, well, Kang. In Loki, He that Remains (aka Immortus) says the various names folks have called him..
Is
But seriously I see it as correcting an issue I had with Kang since he ruled in ancient Egypt. Never liked it being a white man who took over.
From a relativistic perspective, you are both actually correct.... but it is irrelevant.
The way that @fonzerrillii is explaining it is that time is not to be perceived so much as a tree, but as a rope, and that each nexus event causes a string to come loose from that rope and go in a different direction. Then a later nexus event can cause smaller strings to come loose within that string and so on and so forth. Look at the picture below:
In this analogy, time is moving from right to left, instead of left to right. The thickest part of the braided rope is the earliest part of time. You see, it's not one string, but many strings that are going in the same direction. Each time a nexus event occurs, a new string is added to the ENTIRE rope, but the part of the string before the nexus event is virtually identical to the other strings (the new string is considered a separate universe in Many Worlds Theory). Only after the nexus event does it branch out. Rob explained it on the Comics Explained video that was posted. He said that, hypothetically, if there was a universe where Peter Parker didn't get bitten by the spider, then both universes actually still exist simultaneously before that point, but they are virtually identical.
What @TENT is referring to sounds a lot like either superstring theory or M-theory, which are different schools of basic string theory. In string theory, our one universe has more than the four dimensions that we as humans are able to perceive (length, width, height, and time). From the fifth dimension onward, time does indeed branch out from different points based on the initial conditions at that point being different, and keeps branching so on and so forth. Here is decent video explaining M-theory's 11 dimensions.
In string theory, all these dimensions of time, causality, etc., exist in the same one universe (Interstellar is an example of a movie that uses String Theory. They traveled through different timelines within the same universe using a wormhole that was created by higher-dimensional beings).
However, even in string theory, the dimensions can only be calculated back to the earliest initial condition, which is the Big Bang. If you were to change anything prior to the Big Bang, then you would indeed be dealing with a separate universe. So that makes the Big Bang a what? You guessed it...... a NEXUS EVENT!
The comics actually do deal with events before the Big Bang, that's why their timeline is so complex, convoluted, and makes no damn sense and always has to get retconned. What the MCU wants to do is keep it as simple as possible so as not to confuse people. Many Worlds Theory, IMO, is a bit simpler to comprehend, which is why I think they went in that direction.
Like I said, though, relatively speaking, you are both correct, but it is irrelevant. We as humans have no idea what a universe, timeline, or dimension really is entirely. We only know crude math based on what our limited minds can perceive. We can't even agree on whether we actually exist or not, so it really doesn't matter if these words are synonymous or not, because it makes no functional difference as far as we are concerned. MCU calls them universes, fuck it. Whatever.
Sorry to tell you they have him listed as Kang the Conqueror in the upcoming Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania
Check out how Michael Waldron explains things, MCU ain't playing around
Shit been planned since Endgame
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OMG they have literally talked a hole in my damn head. Struggling to stay awake for a FORTY MINUTE episode is not my idea of entertainment
Sorry to tell you they have him listed as Kang the Conqueror in the upcoming Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania
Check out how Michael Waldron explains things, MCU ain't playing around
Which means they are probably already writing Secret Wars part 1, if they haven't finished already.
Yeah I’m trying to see why this is so hard to see
Yep. This introduction was the chill Immortus version of the character. I can't wait to see how he plays the Conqueror version of himself.
From a relativistic perspective, you are both actually correct.... but it is irrelevant.
The way that @fonzerrillii is explaining it is that time is not to be perceived so much as a tree, but as a rope, and that each nexus event causes a string to come loose from that rope and go in a different direction. Then a later nexus event can cause smaller strings to come loose within that string and so on and so forth. Look at the picture below:
In this analogy, time is moving from right to left, instead of left to right. The thickest part of the braided rope is the earliest part of time. You see, it's not one string, but many strings that are going in the same direction. Each time a nexus event occurs, a new string is added to the ENTIRE rope, but the part of the string before the nexus event is virtually identical to the other strings (the new string is considered a separate universe in Many Worlds Theory). Only after the nexus event does it branch out. Rob explained it on the Comics Explained video that was posted. He said that, hypothetically, if there was a universe where Peter Parker didn't get bitten by the spider, then both universes actually still exist simultaneously before that point, but they are virtually identical.
What @TENT is referring to sounds a lot like either superstring theory or M-theory, which are different schools of basic string theory. In string theory, our one universe has more than the four dimensions that we as humans are able to perceive (length, width, height, and time). From the fifth dimension onward, time does indeed branch out from different points based on the initial conditions at that point being different, and keeps branching so on and so forth. Here is decent video explaining M-theory's 11 dimensions.
In string theory, all these dimensions of time, causality, etc., exist in the same one universe (Interstellar is an example of a movie that uses String Theory. They traveled through different timelines within the same universe using a wormhole that was created by higher-dimensional beings).
However, even in string theory, the dimensions can only be calculated back to the earliest initial condition, which is the Big Bang. If you were to change anything prior to the Big Bang, then you would indeed be dealing with a separate universe. So that makes the Big Bang a what? You guessed it...... a NEXUS EVENT!
The comics actually do deal with events before the Big Bang, that's why their timeline is so complex, convoluted, and makes no damn sense and always has to get retconned. What the MCU wants to do is keep it as simple as possible so as not to confuse people. Many Worlds Theory, IMO, is a bit simpler to comprehend, which is why I think they went in that direction.
Like I said, though, relatively speaking, you are both correct, but it is irrelevant. We as humans have no idea what a universe, timeline, or dimension really is entirely. We only know crude math based on what our limited minds can perceive. We can't even agree on whether we actually exist or not, so it really doesn't matter if these words are synonymous or not, because it makes no functional difference as far as we are concerned. MCU calls them universes, fuck it. Whatever.
“Mcu call them universes”
My man gets it....
Did I miss them talking about the "barrier" then?
When Karen made her mind up to kill him shit changed. He even said how he would die. Go back and watch it again. I watched the last 20 minutes like 5x lol.
He used the word "threshold" if that helps.
Here is my question...
When will we have someone call him Nathanial ....
Cause if they do that...
Black Reed Richards is likely about to happen and White people minds are going to Flip....
Yeah that is not how things work.
I have a white great great grandfather.
I might have a white great great grandson.
I have a white great great grandfather.
I might have a white great great grandson.
Oh we about to go into deep nerd comic book lore......ok I'm down.
It would be interesting if they make the connection that he's in the Reed Richards family but I think that might get confusing. That's a lot of deep explination to do but with visuals it might be easier than I think. It would be a good way to mention the Richards and name drop one of the FF for later.
Dammit FU Fonz for making me let the deep comic nerd out!!!
Hoe started a war cause she is a selfish piece of shit lol
Why doesn't she deserve to die? She was the villain the entire time
Pretty much.
Might have it was swift
He paused then said it and said he knew everything up to 7 seconds ago
Oh we about to go into deep nerd comic book lore......ok I'm down.
It would be interesting if they make the connection that he's in the Reed Richards family but I think that might get confusing. That's a lot of deep explination to do but with visuals it might be easier than I think. It would be a good way to mention the Richards and name drop one of the FF for later.
Dammit FU Fonz for making me let the deep comic nerd out!!!
I'm not a deep comic head i just dabble but this was one of the things about Kang that Fascinated me.
You know how when non-black folks mock the original "woke"/hotep brothers with the " We Wuz KANGS"?
They picked Jonathan Majors to play, well, Kang. In Loki, He that Remains (aka Immortus) says the various names folks have called him..
Is
Who's your weed man? Can I get his number???
That's a guarantee.
Reed Richards will be black
Susan will be black
It's going to be some upset crocodiles in the mentions