** The HBO Series "The Wire" Question & Answer Thread **

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: "The Wire"

1) slim charles and fat face rick = a co op?

2) ah, because wikipedia, and not the show, told you so.

it's no wonder so many people are confused about THE WIRE when they are relying upon wikipedia and youtube for their understanding of the show instead of watching it.

cliff notes are never a good substitute.

WOW, so when Prop Joe met up with Vondas by himself, he wasn't there for the Co-op???

Dude, why are you changing the rules in the middle of the game?

The Greek and Vondas were low-key, they didn't meet up with and didn't want to know ANYONE else but their buyer.

How's this for you then, remember when Slim Charles shot Cheese, do you remember WHY they were all there?

That was ALL of the members of the Co-op, putting together the 10 million that Marlo had requested for the connect from ALL of them!

Slim Charles and Fat Face Rick met with Marlo when he was in prison, they brought the word out to the rest of the Co-op as to Marlo's price, so why wouldn't they be the ones to meet with Vondas and the Greek as well?

 

[Djmarkxr7]

extremes?

i'm working with YOUR example (oldsmobiles v. toyotas)

i'm working with stringer bell's example (ford tempos v. japanese/german cars)

in both of those examples, it doesn't matter how superior the product is (toyota, japanese automobiles, german automobiles), because all of the foreign manufacturers EXPORT their cars to the US for sale HERE. that's TERRITORY. their superior product wouldn't mean shit sitting in japan or germany.

i'm working with my own reference to mcdonalds - more corners (literally), better distribution. that's TERRITORY.

i'm working with YOUR example (blockbuster v. netflix) - equal product, better distribution for netflix. that's TERRITORY.

So saying that somebody who lives in New York should travel to California to buy a car isn't extreme?!?

Did Stringer give up both Towers and the Pit to Prop Joe and move the Barksdale organization to California?

Did Toyota start with 1,000 locations in the US?

No, they started with 1.

Toyota, as well as the other Japanese manufacturers blew up in the 70s due to 2 factors, dissatisfaction with American cars and the gas crisis.

They started with superior product and never looked back.

Stringer didn't want to go to Prop Joe, but when they started losing money he felt that he had no choice.

Which would YOU rather have 100 stores with 1 customer, or 1 store with 100 customers?

NO ONE suggested String give up ALL of their territory, and we keep pointing out that they made more money, you seem close-minded to these facts.

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: "The Wire"

"not hard enough"

"not smart enough"

"maybe you never were"




i already addressed this several posts ago.

avon's biggest blind spot was for stringer bell. they were boys.

by all means, YES, stringer bell was avon barksdale's biggest mistake.

Once again, all of this is AFTER season 1, what neither of us know is IF Avon would have been where he was WITHOUT Stringer, we DO know where he was WITH Stringer, refute that.

i've always agreed the product was bad. i've always understood how poor the product was.

so what?

bad product doesn't mean disobey the organization's leader after he tells you "i'm on it".

bad product doesn't mean countermand the organization's leader.

bad product doesn't mean you have the authority to venture out and unilaterally make moves on behalf of the organization.

most certainly, bad product should not encourage a nervous, panicky bitch to make deals that move the organization BACKWARD.

He was "on it" but they STILL had product that was worse than garbage!

He WAS in charge on the outside, he was the #2, what he said, went!

What did he have to be nervous or panicky about as far as drug sales?

HE WANTED TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!

Superior product brings you more sales, more sales brings you more people, more people moves you out into more territory, that's the way ALL businesses work!

You REALLY have not appreciated just how bad their product was, when people are literally addicted to your shit and they walk past you while you are right @ their front door, to buy it from someone else that's blocks away, you've got a serious problem!

All that said, in the BIG picture this was a fuckup, but this was no more than a plot device to move the story along and to take Stringer down.

You could not foresee this in season 1.

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: "The Wire"

this is the part of the reaction to THE WIRE that really disappoints me.

on BGOL, you have supposedly Black members creating a false dichotomy between avon barksdale and stringer bell: thug v. educated man. in truth, the respective polarity is between competent v. incompetent.

the avon barksdale and marlo characters were the BRAINS that made their organizations so successful. but here on BGOL their achievements (career choice notwithstanding) are cast in a poor light when compared to A LOSER like stringer bell.

only on BGOL.

Dude, when has ANYONE said anything comparing Stringer to Avon or Marlo but make the point that both of them were true leaders/sharks in the game?

I started this whole back and forth by stating that Stringer was a good advisor, but should never be left to his own devices to lead, you disputed even that assessment and that brings us to where we are today.

To cover a salient point with you:

Avon's description says that "Barksdale grew up in the Terrace high-rises and managed to avoid arrest, remaining a furtive but increasingly powerful force in the Westside drug trade".

See how no words are wasted?

He is who they say he is, he remained on the low while building his empire, "a furtive but increasingly powerful force!"

Stringer's bio says he is "A master of organization".

Since the show is about the police taking down the Barksdale organization, and he is the #2 man IN that organization, why would you dismiss this as "just a description"?

Quite frankly I was stuck for a while as to how you couldn't process this yet you question my reading comprehension.

You've continuously repeated the phrase but NEVER once answered the question.

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

Once again, all of this is AFTER season 1.

i'm starting to believe your inability to understand "master of organization" is not merely an aberration.

i'm wondering if english is your native language.

avon: "maybe you NEVER were" (emphasis mine)

DJM: "all of this AFTER season 1"

avon's "never were" expresses avon's doubt that stringer bell was EVER qualified.

why do you insist on trying to book-end my very straightforward comments and dialogue taken verbatim from the show?

 

[cranrab]

i saw the show...and marlo took over the connect, barksdale, prop joe and hungry man's territory.

more like you read some episode summaries or are another wikipedia follower.

if you watched the show, you'd know what he proceeded to do (with respect to territory) immediately after snatching the connect.

it's a great show. watch it someday. it's worth it.

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

Stringer's bio says he is "A master of organization".

Since the show is about the police taking down the Barksdale organization, and he is the #2 man IN that organization, why would you dismiss this as "just a description"?

Quite frankly I was stuck for a while as to how you couldn't process this yet you question my reading comprehension.

You've continuously repeated the phrase but NEVER once answered the question.

my suspicion has now been confirmed.

your inability to grasp the meaning of this descriptive choice of words proves that it was not some sort of odd, linguistic aberration.

you genuinely are unable to comprehend "master of organization"; your inability to correctly interpret the use of the word "organization" in these cases as incongruous is profound, troubling, but moreover crippling to your arguments.

as for why i've never answered the question? because you don't see that there is NO question.

no diss, brother. for real, you need to get someone who understands english properly to sit down with you and explain what "master of organization" means. and i mean that with NO condescencion.

 

[geechiedan]

more like you read some episode summaries or are another wikipedia follower.

if you watched the show, you'd know what he proceeded to do (with respect to territory) immediately after snatching the connect.

it's a great show. watch it someday. it's worth it.

now your talking out your ass..even more so than before..



the episodes are online and i watched the episodes where he took the connection and told the group he did it...if theres more you need to spit it out

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: "The Wire"

i'm starting to believe your inability to understand "master of organization" is not merely an aberration.

i'm wondering if english is your native language.

avon: "maybe you NEVER were" (emphasis mine)

DJM: "all of this AFTER season 1"

avon's "never were" expresses avon's doubt that stringer bell was EVER qualified.

why do you insist on trying to book-end my very straightforward comments and dialogue taken verbatim from the show?

May-be: possibly, perhaps

EVERYTHING Avon said in that discussion was prefaced with "these days".

Let's look @ the dialogue that the rest of us are apparently too slow to digest.

Stringer kicked it off by saying "Man you don't give this shit up, we're gonna turn everything we built to shit!"

Avon said verbatim, "I look @ you these days and I see a man without a country, not hard enough for this right here, and maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there."

Stringer: "Not hard enough for this right here?"

Avon:"You've got skills yeah, no doubt, but..."

Stringer: "But?" "What, cause I don't shoot up a block all indescriminate, I ain't hard enough, huh, because I think before I snatch a life I ain't in this bullshit?"

Here is where not only comprehension come in but context as well.

Avon was holding court, telling a story to Slim Charles and crew when Stringer walked in, when did we EVER see this in season 1?

Answer: NEVER.

From the moment their conversation started Avon was talking salty towards Stringer, did we ever see this in season 1?

Answer: NO.

Just when did this scene take place?

AFTER Avon got out of jail, EXACTLY what I've said all along, their relationship had changed, BOTH characters are now different in their ambitions AND in the way they treat each other.

Here's another piece of context for you, the series began on HBO in June of 2002.

Avon doesn't get out of prison until October 2004, this "talk" between the two doesn't happen until November 2004, almost a full 2.5 years later, this is a huge part as to why Stringer's character is romanticized from the outset, he didn't make his first fatal move (giving up territory to Prop Joe) until August 2003, so he had not shown any true flaws for almost 1.5 years!

Don't mistake this "romanticism" for peeps not knowing the String was a fuckup, we know that he was and he ended up like fuckups do, and the setting for his demise was poetic, it was his chase of that dream that caused him to make the blunders that he did to get killed.

The showing of the B&B condo sign after he was killed was his epitaph.

You're saying that Avon is questioning Stringer's competence yet Avon's exact word's are that "not hard enough for this right here!"

Hardness and competence are two different things bruh.

Eddy Curry hasn't shown recently that he's hard enough to play against the league's top centers but he is competent enough to play basketball in the NBA.

Sadly, this also takes us right back to the "master of organization" discussion again.

Avon clearly says "You have skills yeah, no doubt!"

I know that somehow, cranrab, you will gloss over that statement, saying somehow that it doesn't apply to String's competence but I placed it here to give you a lifeline.

Avon also clearly delineates the drug world and the business world:"Maybe, just maybe, not smart enough for them out there!"

Both of these statements tell us two things...

1.Avon acknowledges Stringer's "skills" in the game.

2.Avon himself actually acknowledges that Stringer is no match for Marlo, "Not hard enough for this right here!", "I bleed red, you bleed green!"

String loves/wants the money aspect of the game w/o the blood (mess) it takes to get it, hence his whole "going legit" theme.

Avon himself has said Stringer has the brains, but not the heart, how does this NOT fit in with what I and the show's writers have already said?

A master of organization describes Stringer as a thinker (since you've never answered the question) and even Avon has acknowledged this in his organization ("you've got skills yeah, no doubt!") which breaks down to a purely advisory role, but he shouldn't be left to his own devices because in the end, he was his own worst enemy.

He thought that he was smarter than everyone else which, we see in the end, he clearly wasn't.

 

[cranrab]

He worked DEA, so basically what he was doing was skimming off of seizures (like Carver and Herc) and/or possibly taking payoffs.

cedric daniels worked DEU out of the eastern, a city entity.

not to be mistaken with the DEA, a federal entity.

 

[cranrab]

In Season 1, the FBI agent that McNulty would consult with on occasion told him that "Daniels is dirty" and that he had more money in liquid assets than he should have had. Evidently Daniels had worked in a corrupt DEA district and had gotten is hands on some extra money he shouldn't have had, along with some other people.

see above about DEU.

it was a trip how that dossier on cedric daniels got passed around: FBI turns it over to ervin burrell who sits on it as an insurance policy, who turns it over to nerese campbell on his way out the door, who finally plays the wild card by turning it over to marla daniels.

 

[cranrab]

Man, I forgot how cold Levy was. That nigga was underrated. Made millions off the back of drug dealers. Made more money selling sealed court documents to dealers. Was willing to sell out his clients (he knew Herc gave the police Marlo's cell phone number and rewarded him). And got NO time.

i thought this too for the longest, but i could never reconcile that maurice levy would be OK with herc giving up his clients' phone number.

what maurice levy rewarded him for was semi-confirming that BPD had an illegal wiretap on his client, marlo stanfield (8:08 mark):

 

[cranrab]

Break out your Colin Powell because this is some academic shit:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/oct/14/life-wire/

here's another, for those so inclined:

http://www.radicalphilosophy.com/pdf/highlight_kraniauskas154.pdf

 

[cranrab]

It took some big shit for Bodie to say "fuck it". Look at Kima. She saw a lot of shit. It just took some big shit for her to snitch on her own people. Unlike Carver who was snitching from day one.

i've always had a real problem with what kima greggs did (informing on lester freamon and james mcnulty).

NOT because it wasn't the correct ethical choice.

but because she herself had participated in improper conduct to keep the case alive (duping her lieutenant into signing the subpoena requests without his knowledge).

this is NOT a comparison of wrongdoing in scope or scale, the point is that she had done dirt herself and yet was so quickly moved to inform against her partners.

hell, she even told ellis carver to coach his subordinates on how to word their statements when the shit eventually hit the fan! WTF is that?

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

May-be: possibly, perhaps

EVERYTHING Avon said in that discussion was prefaced with "these days".

Hardness and competence are two different things bruh.

you mention context but pick a single word out of an entire sentence?

say the whole thing over again as many times as necessary: "maybe you never were."

"maybe" points out avon's doubt as he openly questions whether stringer ever was "hard" enough or "smart" enough.

"never" - not ever; at no time in the past or future.

this is the english translation:

possibly you at no time in the past or future were hard or smart enough.



now i know how roland pryzbylewski must've felt in his classroom.

Here's another piece of context for you, the series began on HBO in June of 2002.

Avon doesn't get out of prison until October 2004, this "talk" between the two doesn't happen until November 2004, almost a full 2.5 years later, this is a huge part as to why Stringer's character is romanticized from the outset, he didn't make his first fatal move (giving up territory to Prop Joe) until August 2003, so he had not shown any true flaws for almost 1.5 years!

peace be to you, your posts are becoming a comedy of errors.

you're suggesting we apply our time (based on HBO broadcast scheduling!) and date to a television show.

Avon:"You've got skills yeah, no doubt, but..."

I know that somehow, cranrab, you will gloss over that statement, saying somehow that it doesn't apply to String's competence but I placed it here to give you a lifeline.

Avon himself has said Stringer has the brains, but not the heart, how does this NOT fit in with what I and the show's writers have already said?

wishful thinking. improper inference.

simply because YOU'D like to believe that a reference to vague "skills" = brains, that doesn't make it FACT, TRUTH, or REALITY for the rest of us.

FACT, TRUTH and REALITY shows us that avon was correct to doubt and question stringer's competence all along:

possibly you at no time in the past or future were hard or smart enough.

A master of organization describes Stringer as a thinker (since you've never answered the question)

wishful thinking. improper inference.

simply because YOU'D like to believe that a reference to vague "organization" = thinker, that doesn't make it FACT, TRUTH, or REALITY for the rest of us.

He thought that he was smarter than everyone else which, we see in the end, he clearly wasn't.

i disagree.

we don't have any indication from the show (or otherwise) that stringer bell considered himself smarter than "everyone else". that comes from audience members attributing their filter onto the character.

maybe stringer bell did feel that way about individuals. maybe he didn't. but there is no EVIDENCE or PROOF to suggest that he viewed "everyone else" in that manner.

what we can reasonably say without speculation or inference is that stringer bell (falsely) believed that his WAY, DIRECTION, PATH and METHODOLOGY were better than everyone else's.

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

Dude, when has ANYONE said anything comparing Stringer to Avon or Marlo but make the point that both of them were true leaders/sharks in the game?

I'll sum it up like this as far as Stringer Bell goes,He wasn't no slouche, but He was the rational,firm, conscious side of what Avon always wasn't.

I disagree ... stringer was the brain and avon was the heart

string was the #2 ... without the other they couldn't make it ... only reason avon was getting shine cause it was a street gang if they went corporate avon would have been the #2 and string would have been the #1 gangster

Stringer and Avon probably would have been more effective and enjoyed more "job" satisfaction in each others roles.

Stringer at the head primarily focused on the big picture and staying out of street level beef.

Avon as #2 running the day to day operation and staying closer to the streets. He was a soldier at heart and would have been good handling the soldiers/ muscle while String pushed them forward.

To go back to Stringer, he fucked up towards the end, but he wasn't a fuckup. He was the yin to Avon's yang.

Avon didn't go along with stringer on the real estate shit because he didn't understand it

I started this whole back and forth by stating that Stringer was a good advisor, but should never be left to his own devices to lead, you disputed even that assessment and that brings us to where we are today.

i entered THIS thread, talking about stringer bell almost 400 replies ago. LONG BEFORE you ever entered this thread.

i replied to bgque (dude who claimed knowledge of THE WIRE, but insisted that cheese's last name was flagstaff) and hussla's paradise.

 

[Mr. Met]

I got one:

From the very first season you learn Daniels did some dirt back in the day...did it ever come out exactly what that dirt was?

Daniels stole dirty money from drug raids.

Remember in the 1st season when McNulty's inside snitch dropped him hints about how Daniel's lifestyle doesn't jive with his salary to which McNulty guessed trips to Atlantic City.

It wasn't until the 5th season when the outgoing chief in his bitterness hinted to Daniels on what he remembered from those infamous drug busts.

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: "The Wire"

you mention context but pick a single word out of an entire sentence?

say the whole thing over again as many times as necessary: "maybe you never were."

"maybe" points out avon's doubt as he openly questions whether stringer ever was "hard" enough or "smart" enough.

"never" - not ever; at no time in the past or future.

this is the english translation:

possibly you at no time in the past or future were hard or smart enough.





now i know how roland pryzbylewski must've felt in his classroom.

I agree with you here, I thought that I had deleted that.

peace be to you, your posts are becoming a comedy of errors.

you're suggesting we apply our time (based on HBO broadcast scheduling!) and date to a television show.
wishful thinking. improper inference.

Reading comprehension boss, I'm NOT referring to the show's timeline, I'm referring to OUR timeline as the viewer as to why the Stringer Bell character is romanticized by some.

This is quite clear in my following statement, "Don't mistake this "romanticism" for peeps (us!)not knowing that String was a fuckup!"

We, the viewers, didn't see any real fuckups by Stringer for almost a year and a half.

simply because YOU'D like to believe that a reference to vague "skills" = brains, that doesn't make it FACT, TRUTH, or REALITY for the rest of us.

FACT, TRUTH and REALITY shows us that avon was correct to doubt and question stringer's competence all along:

possibly you at no time in the past or future were hard or smart enough.


wishful thinking. improper inference.

simply because YOU'D like to believe that a reference to vague "organization" = thinker, that doesn't make it FACT, TRUTH, or REALITY for the rest of us.

Throughout your WHOLE reply you left out the very frirst sentence in my reply: "EVERYTHING Avon said in that discussion was prefaced with "these days"."

Do I REALLY need to explain how those two words give you a timeline?

That whatever he thought before has now changed?

The term "these days" means in retrospect, he did not feel that way before.

Since apparently you didn't understand that Stringer's whole persona was one of someone who thought he was intelligent, more intelligent than everyone else, maybe you will believe David Simon's Bible on the show itself.

An excerpt from a brief summary on the Simon's Bible, you do understand of course that things change from the original script to what we saw onscreen:

Some of the characteristics of Barksdale and Bell were swapped around between outline and screen. It’s Barksdale who fancies himself as a property investor and is cultivating political contacts. Bell is a decade older than his boss – they no longer came up together – and he is less polished and more thuggish than Barksdale.

I think Simon was smart to change that. The tension between Barksdale and Bell, the latter smarter than his boss but not street-smart enough, is crucial to how the first three seasons unfold. That tension is compounded by the fact that the two are childhood friends, something that gives enormous resonance to the double betrayal at the end of series three.

The Wire Bible (original draft)
http://www.shanerichmond.net/?p=303

i disagree.

we don't have any indication from the show (or otherwise) that stringer bell considered himself smarter than "everyone else". that comes from audience members attributing their filter onto the character.

maybe stringer bell did feel that way about individuals. maybe he didn't. but there is no EVIDENCE or PROOF to suggest that he viewed "everyone else" in that manner.

what we can reasonably say without speculation or inference is that stringer bell (falsely) believed that his WAY, DIRECTION, PATH and METHODOLOGY were better than everyone else's.

Yes there is, read above.

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

Since apparently you didn't understand that Stringer's whole persona was one of someone who thought he was intelligent, more intelligent than everyone else, maybe you will believe David Simon's Bible on the show itself.

An excerpt from a brief summary on the Simon's Bible, you do understand of course that things change from the original script to what we saw onscreen:

Some of the characteristics of Barksdale and Bell were swapped around between outline and screen. It’s Barksdale who fancies himself as a property investor and is cultivating political contacts. Bell is a decade older than his boss – they no longer came up together – and he is less polished and more thuggish than Barksdale.

I think Simon was smart to change that. The tension between Barksdale and Bell, the latter smarter than his boss but not street-smart enough, is crucial to how the first three seasons unfold. That tension is compounded by the fact that the two are childhood friends, something that gives enormous resonance to the double betrayal at the end of series three.

The Wire Bible (original draft)
http://www.shanerichmond.net/?p=303

first and foremost, a sincere THANK YOU.

THANK YOU for posting the link for fans of the show.

i must say, however, that you posting this link has the desperate stench of blunt googling. the desperate ploy of someone so desperate for some sort of validation that they google a topic for any faint reference that might back their point.

i say this for 2 reasons:

1) this was a DRAFT. it wasn't CLOSE to what transpired on the show. so your observations and conclusions drawn from this are worthless. in fact, i will provide examples of the RADICAL differences so others will know how different it was: omar wasn't gay. slim charles killed kima greggs. avon barksdale and stringer bell didn't grow up together. d'angelo doesn't die, he testifies (and later moves to ATL) against avon, who gets 20 years.

2) the DRAFT was written by david simon. you attempting to pass off the "swapped" idea as coming from david simon is pathetic. or worse, a lie. the "summary" you excerpted is from UK blogger shane richmond, and the observations are his, not david simon's.

the TRUTH is that you added your biased slant to include remarks about "intelligence", when none were forthcoming from either david simon or shane richmond!



unfortunately for you, i can read english well, and i am not intimidated by 79 pages. i've read it. the whole thing. beginning to end.

if YOU had read it (or even a small portion of it), on PAGE NINE you would've been able to see FOR YOURSELF (instead of twisting a blogger's take) that there was NO comparison made between barksdale's and bell's INTELLIGENCE.

very SAD effort. have some dignity.

 

[geechiedan]

Re: "The Wire"

end the thread...its pointless cranrab has OPINION just like anyone else..
thats all it is...his opinion..

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

end the thread...its pointless cranrab has OPINION just like anyone else..
thats all it is...his opinion..

yes.

we all know that opinions are all equally valid 100% of the time. especially when some opinions are based on pretense, emotion and fiction and others are based solely on fact.

good job.

 

[geechiedan]

Re: "The Wire"

yes.

we all know that opinions are all equally valid 100% of the time. especially when some opinions are based on pretense, emotion and fiction and others are based solely on fact.

good job.

yeah...you have been very emotional about all this haven't you..

nigga please

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

yeah...you have been very emotional about all this haven't you

VERY emotional, if emotional = citing specific events from the show.

in this THE WIRE thread and the one i bumped earlier from 2.5 years ago, i've been making the same claim and citing evidence from the show EVERY time.

i haven't made inferences, manufactured fan fiction, or worse still, claimed to have watched the show but clearly did not.

in those 2 threads, i've seen 1 fraud after another make outrageous false claims based on extensive wikipedia "research":

proposition joe was equal to avon barksdale.



cheese's name was melvin flagstaff



marlo didn't take corners and wasn't concerned with territory after taking control of the connect





oh wait, i guess amused can count as an emotion too.

 

[Punch]

Did the series end without a follow up of muthafuckin bitch ass Rawls being in the cissy bar?

 

[Djmarkxr7]

Re: "The Wire"

VERY emotional, if emotional = citing specific events from the show.

in this THE WIRE thread and the one i bumped earlier from 2.5 years ago, i've been making the same claim and citing evidence from the show EVERY time.

i haven't made inferences, manufactured fan fiction, or worse still, claimed to have watched the show but clearly did not.

in those 2 threads, i've seen 1 fraud after another make outrageous false claims based on extensive wikipedia "research":

Interpretation is the key here, I have chosen to interpret the show different from you.

In quite a few instances you have clearly chosen to gloss over anything that doesn't support your opinion.

proposition joe was equal to avon barksdale.

The basketball game notwithstanding (East vs. West) once again I'll call upon HBOs character bios to show you where the writers positioned Prop Joe.

Proposition Joe
Working out of an unassuming appliance store front, narcotics kingpin Proposition Joe prefers peace to war and profit above all. When Avon Barksdale - his Westside rival - was imprisoned, Prop Joe managed to entice Stringer Bell - Barksdale's #2 - into an alliance. Bell opened up the lucrative Westside high rises in exchange for Prop Joe's better dope. Joe's drug connection was his greatest asset - Greek suppliers that come straight thru the Baltimore port, eluding the wiretap investigation of port corruption. It's also led to his greatest triumph: the New Day Co-op, a drug syndicate of Baltimore that puts product before territory by promoting peace and security for all the members, as well as access to Joe's cheap, and potent supply of raw heroin and cocaine.

Prop Joe was Avon's closest equivalent on the Eastside, his power was mostly derived from his connect, but Avon controlling the Towers did make him #1 overall.

marlo didn't take corners and wasn't concerned with territory after taking control of the connect

Marlo's highest concern was his corners and how much territory he had, just like Avon.

Territory = power.

However, I still understand the move Stringer made.

It still goes to who he was, money over power.

To use your analogy, if peeps walk past 3 McDonalds' to go to Burger King because McDonald's switched to selling only salads, you, as McDonald's, have to consider changing up your menu, no matter what the cost.

 

[Cock Head Jones]

Did the series end without a follow up of muthafuckin bitch ass Rawls being in the cissy bar?

yea, in an interview i read david simon said they were always writing shit into the script that they could choose to pick back up a later time or leave people hanging.

 

[RunawaySlave]

Re: "The Wire"

Prop Joe was Avon's closest equivalent on the Eastside, his power was mostly derived from his connect, but Avon controlling the Towers did make him #1 overall

You have a good point, but it still doesn't make Joe an equal to Avon. If that appliance story was anywhere but the "east" side it would not
have existed. Avon's disdain for anything east (except for Slim) is the only thing that kept him from completely taking over


and while I am on the subject of Joe, I have to say that his number 2 was kind of weak too. In fact, Avon is starting to look pretty damn
good as a number 2 guy if you compared him to Cheese or Shamrock

 

[Punch]

yea, in an interview i read david simon said they were always writing shit into the script that they could choose to pick back up a later time or leave people hanging.

Preciate that Main....also Im re-watching the entire Box...and in season 4...I cant quite put my finger on why but for some reason I find Ms. Duquette irrestible and fine as hell, maybe because she keeps her cool and grace.

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

Not a question, but that scene in Season 5 when Dukie tried to remind Mike of when they got jumped by the Terrace boys the year before and got ice cream later on that day and Mike said "I don't remember" because of all the fucked up shit that happened since then - man that line/scene was so cold

 

[cranrab]

Re: "The Wire"

and while I am on the subject of Joe, I have to say that his number 2 was kind of weak too. In fact, Avon is starting to look pretty damn
good as a number 2 guy if you compared him to Cheese or Shamrock

right? it's amazing how people always wanna see a "number 2".

marlo didn't have a number 2. it was him and chris was muscle.

prop joe didn't have a number 2. it was him and then everyone under him.

but avon barksdale had to have a "number 2" because what else were you gonna call his boy?

 

[cranrab]

Not a question, but that scene in Season 5 when Dukie tried to remind Mike of when they got jumped by the Terrace boys the year before and got ice cream later on that day and Mike said "I don't remember" because of all the fucked up shit that happened since then - man that line/scene was so cold

i took the long pause (and the looking down) to mean that michael DID remember, but at that moment knew that "you can never go home again".

almost as though it was too painful to acknowledge the loss of his innocence.

 

[cranrab]

I find Ms. Duquette irrestible and fine as hell

nothing wrong with that take. at all.

 

[geechiedan]

i took the long pause (and the looking down) to mean that michael DID remember, but at that moment knew that "you can never go home again".

almost as though it was too painful to acknowledge the loss of his innocence.

Thats funny I took the long pause to mean that Michael was really trying to remember and couldn't because `he'd changed so much..look at what he did in the time since:

Had his stepfather killed
participated in several killings himself
got his own apartment
became sexually active
separated from the only true family he ever knew (bug and dukie)
trying to survive being killed by his own crew

hell after all that I don't remember that incident either and I was just watching..

 

[cranrab]

Thats funny I took the long pause to mean that Michael was really trying to remember and couldn't because `he'd changed so much..look at what he did in the time since:

Had his stepfather killed
participated in several killings himself
got his own apartment
became sexually active
separated from the only true family he ever knew (bug and dukie)
trying to survive being killed by his own crew

hell after all that I don't remember that incident either and I was just watching..

this is a genuine instance of the topic being subject to the "interpretation" of the viewer because there is no other dialogue.

michael had to say goodbye to his brother by blood, bug, and now was having to part ways with the last remnant of his childhood, duquan.

duquan desperately went through every far fetched scenario to stay together, but michael knew this was the end and goodbye.

 

[cranrab]

here is the scene for those that need a refresh.

my take hinges a lot on michael's unwillingness to make eye contact with duquan after "the question". great scene.