Tonights Raw was ehh....However the Morrison vs. Sheamus match was the best of the night
. Morrison will be Shawn Micheals huge real soon.
. Morrison will be Shawn Micheals huge real soon.
THE WRESTLING THREAD: HELL HAS FROZE OVER JOHN CENA HAS GONE FULL HEEL
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Hell naw.... Orton owned the match tonight man... How you reverse an AA in mid-air to the RKO that move was hot though
Tonights Raw was ehh....However the Morrison vs. Sheamus match was the best of the night
i was
at morrison backstage doing like he auditioning for the next District B13 movieMaryse dancing to ted dibiase's singing
R-Truth's new"single"
I think the problem is that in the case of Cena he's the only one doing his merchandising numbers so there's no replacement. The other guys had others around to pick up the slack if their merchandise numbers fell. It's probably why they're pushing Orton so hard right now as well.
pump morrison to be a babyface.. dude is like shawn micheals but better.. right now if they do it right its like he would be living in micheals shadow.... tehy can do the old rock n roll express angle and morrison knocks out rtruth... and there we have a setup for a champion
Put the pipe down. Look, I recognize he a phenomenal athlete. The high-spots that he's able to pull off without much effort are very sharp. But Michaels was a lot more well-rounded when he was Morrison's age (I'm assuming you're comparing him to Shawn Michaels at the same age. Because he's REALLY behind Shawn Michaels if you're comparing him to Michaels in his later years). Morrison still cuts weak promos, and doesn't have psychology down like a young Michaels did in the ring. Will he in another 4 or 5 years? I wouldn't bet against it. Next year? Highly doubtful.
That's the WWE's fault. They've plenty of opportunities to push new babyfaces like Mark Henry, MVP, and it looks like they're going to try again with John Morrison but they always cut the legs out from under them and make them meaningless. Each of those guys came to Raw with a ton of momentum and they all became midcard jobbers.
Thanks. Morrison better than Michaels?? Michaels had Marty Jannety and "Playboy" Buddy Rose and "Pretty Boy" Doug Somers schooling him and years of working territories before he set foot
in the WWF and worked tag for years after that before he got a singles run. Morrison is on a good track but comparing him to Michaels now only makes him look bad.
The best match of the sorry ass Raw was Sheamus vs Morrison but that was ruined by yet another run it.
I read Ezekiel Jackson worked the dark match last night. That's good but what are they going to do with him? He beat Zach Ryder so they might lean him face. I hope they put him on Smackdown where he can be in the hands of a good booker like Michael Hayes and can continue to develop.
The WWE doesn't want to push Mark Henry as a big time babyface though they have had no issue pushing him as a heel. The way he came to Raw pinning Orton with absolutely no follow up is proof of that. As a heel they have had him matched up with Taker,Batista,Benoit,etc and given him a title run(though it was ECW).And MVP had his legs cut off on Smackdown with the losing streak angle that turned him face when it looked like he was about to get main event status. And then when they didn't push him as they were telling him real story about his imprisonment it was the final straw as to where they view him.
Kofi is a better example of a babyface push that got hindered and Dibiase looked like he was about to get over as well before they changed their mind.
C/S i mean morrison literally had to jump through hurdles just to get a reaction from the fans. Morrison might be a better athlete but michaels was/is the better wrestler.
WWE is notorious for taking guys off other shows and not doing anything with them. They did the same thing with Brian Kendrick. After he started to get over with his The Brian Kendrick character they moved him to Raw and never did anything with him. They compaired him to a young HBK, they should have put the two into a feud. I'm sure Shawn Michaels would have enjoyed helping to elavate one of his students.
I can agree with all this and it shows how WWE can be completely tone deaf to their audience. Henry was massively over. He used to do a thing where he would point to different sides of the crowd and they would stand up but they never had Cole and Lawler put that over.
It looked like the losing streak would be used to turn MVP and it was but then nothing happened. You're right, that's twice they've shut him down just as he started to get hot, first as a heel then a face.
And before we can say it's a racial thing (though there's some of that too), we have...
Kendrick had a great look and was really working that gimmick. Add in Ezekiel Jackson as muscle and you had someone to even him out when he wrestled bigger guys (if Rey, who's smaller than Kendrick, can be a top guy, size can be overcome) or a very good tag team.
Sheldon Benjamin anyone? I was sure after that epic match with Micheals a few years back and even Micheals kind of annointing him that he would be groomed to be at the least a player in the main events. But no. They just dont push smaller wrestlers unless they have ungodly charisma.
My thoughts on the criteria to be WWE champion or even get a run at it is:
1. LOOK like a champion-bigger or taller than most.
2. Charisma-mic skills-crowd skills.
Thats it. You must have both. Now there are exceptions like Rey and Eddy. Now look at the current roster and tell me who can do both? The list starts to narrow. Kofi never talks. Punk didnt have the LOOK of a champ. Everyone else is really not worth mentioning at least right now.
If it was up to me, I would look at giving MVP a heel title run and Swagger a title run as WWE Champ as they both satisfy my criteria. It would help solidify both in the future as legitimate. Groom the rest.
I thought they were going to give it another shot after his two really good matches with Undertaker on Smackdown but it was not to be.
I thought that guy would have been a great long term IC champ with the occasional World title shot and main event.
I wouldn't use Swagger because his lisp is horrible. Now, if WWE used managers, Swagger would be back on the list.
The shame about Kofi is that he can talk but they don't let him so he'll get leapfrogged by McIntyre.
Drew McIntyre will get a title run eventually. I even look for him to win MitB next year.
Shelton Benjamin is made to be a face. In order to get over as a heel you usually need the look for it, solid build up and promo skills or a program that will get you over if the other factors aren't used. They did the dumb shit with Thea as his mother. CM Punk,HHH and Ric Flair couldn't get over with that dumbass gimmick. As a face all he needed was a solid opponent and the time to put in spectacular matches. Put him in a feud with Jericho and Mysterio over the U.S. title and watch his stock grow from there.
I don't think being bigger than everyone else makes you look like a champ. Just have an established persona and be great in the ring and that is enough. By the rationale of bigger and stronger Benoit,Jericho,Bret Hart,Edge and HBK would never have gotten title runs. I wish the WWE would take a page from ROH where they let the wrestling get guys over sometimes in combination with a persona i.e. Homicide,Aries, American Wolves,Briscoes,Samoa Joe.
Swagger works for me in spite of the lisp. It kind of works with his character. And I'm starting to think that Cody Rhodes has leapfrogged McIntyre and Kofi as he is making his gimmick work alot better than it should.
MVP should be turned by heel but the problem is that there are so many more heels than faces right now. I don't even know who he could turn on right now and have it effectively get him over as a heel unless they did something with Teddy Long.
In the old territory days, Benjamin would have spent most of his time as a babyface and nearly all of it on top/upper mid card.I agree but clearly Vince McMahon does not. Of those guys, only Hart and Michaels had extended runs as champion and that was another era before weekly live shows and monthly ppvs.
I think Cody has passed Drew too. Drew went from undefeated or losing only to Undertaker to losing to Christian after he sneak attacked him (a problem I mentioned earlier about how they don't let the heels get any real heat). Drew has gone from the number two or three heel to dropping beneath Rhodes and Alberto Del Rios.
Smackdown is so depleted talent-wise, I think the number of heels and faces is about equal (in singles, it's all heels in the two team tag division) but a heel turn by MVP now would count for jack and that's a shame. The guy is really good in the ring and on the mic.
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Once Smackdown moves to SyFy you will see the WWE big wigs try to make it watchable.It wont be like Raw is but it wont be like ECW was either. The talk of having all these unification title matches doesnt make sense. I can understand doing the Diva and Tag titles because they dont push it the way TNA does.however that should be it.The wwe,world,united states and intercontinental titles should stay seperate and apparently someone else feels the same way.:
Big, I don't even think they need a US belt. At least the IC title has tons of WWE history and is still considered worth something. It's become a trinket around Miz's waist. I hate for people to pretend this is the same title Magnum TA, Tully Blanchard, Wahoo McDaniels, and Nikita Koloff fought for.
most of the young cats dont know half of those guys but I understand you. Hell R-Truth held the title for about what a month ???? My thing is you could put a title around a good mid-carder who's still hungry and show some respect for the title.The Miz has been shot up to main event status now so he doesnt need the title anymore.Give it to some one like Evan Bourne.
Wrestlers with decent mic skills are becoming few and far between. Right now, Jericho has the best mic skills in WWE. I was LOL@ him clowning Michael Cole.
Randy Orton has been on a roll for the past few weeks.........
You know what that means?
Cena wins the title sunday
My dark horse is Wade Barrett. Edge & Jericho are rumored to be heading back to Smackdown, Sheamus aint going to retain, Cena's always going to be in it to the end and after last night Orton isnt going to win.He's been damn near winning so much lately the WWE big wigs arent going to put the title around him.
Randy Orton has been on a roll for the past few weeks.........
You know what that means?
Cena wins the title sunday
I would hope not. I hope they've signed Jericho to a new deal and put the belt on him. It's an elimination match now so maybe he can FINALLY get that pinfall on Cena.
That would work but they could do that with the IC belt going back and forth between the shows.
What happened to Bourne's push? One week he's beating Jericho and in the mix with Cena and now he's in bodyslam matches with Edge (a case of writers trying to hard to be cute and smart).
Jericho's awesome all the time.
Well you have to have a midcard title. That's the whole point of the TNA tv title. Miz won't have the title much longer, he will drop it to Danel Bryan or Morrison in the near future. The current US title is essentially same prestige as the title used in WCW so what's the problem?
I'm not against midcard titles, they are necessary, I am against midcard titles that are just used as props as the US title is being used now and has been for a long time.
No way this US title can be seen in the same light as the old NWA and later WCW US titles. The NWA treated their US championship like it was the top title behind the World title and dudes were "killing" each other for it. WCW kept the US title on top guys like Sting and Lex Luger before and after Worlt title runs and had great feuds based off it like Steamboat/Rude and Rude/Dustin Rhodes. The WWE US title has been worth talking about since they moved it to Raw and wasn't much before then.
i dont think he the only one who was clowning cole concerning the GM's emails..cena,edge and i think sheamus did so as well
Co-sign - and also because it was seen as a stepping stone to world championship matches
The match isn't an elimination match. First pinfall or submission wins the match. Since ECW went under none of the major companies has had the heart to do straight up elimination matches I guess fearing that they would be ruining somebody's momentum.
And yes Jericho is always awesome and has been that way since he turned heel in WCW.
Back then the U.S. champ was considered the number 1 contender to the World title even though it was rarely played out storyline wise that way. All it takes is good lengthy feuds to keep the title looking important but they would rather play up the fact that the Miz has the Money in the Bank. Hopefully more importance will be placed on the title if/when Daniel Bryan wins it.
Right now the only managers that I can think of that are good and of recent history are Jim Mitchell,Larry Sweeney,Ric Flair(if you consider him one),Konnan,Scott D'Amore,Armando Alejandro Estrada and Prince Nana.
Sweeney and D'Amore could work with Swagger but the WWE in their way of doing things would rather release a guy than add a piece that could potentially get them over the hump and make them a true asset.
BTW,I still think they should rehire Colt Cabana.
Randy Orton has been on a roll for the past few weeks.........
You know what that means?
Cena wins the title sunday
Cosign.......Cena hasnt had a championship run since January.