THE WRESTLING THREAD: HELL HAS FROZE OVER JOHN CENA HAS GONE FULL HEEL
- Thread starter ArsenalCannon357
- Start date
Hulk Hogan not even making TOP 20 IS just SILLY. WTF is Edge doing ahead of Hulk Hogan? The guy doesn't even have one match that comes close to any of Hogan's epic and I don't count those TLC matches because those matches took a collaborative effort with guys like Jeff Hardy and Dudleys and so on.
By spiting Hogan so badly they are just going to make people acknowledge Hogan more. I actually didn't have too much of a problem with Shawn Michaels at #1, but that list loses all points when Hogan is not in top 5.
I wonder where Bret Hart would have been on this list if he didn't return this year?
The list is just so random as Harley Race is in top 10. Is this a wwe list or just in general? I'm also sorry, but Kane being in anything top 50 is rubbish.
Exactly Barrett's current storyline is what's garnering heat. Part of the problem with Sheamus is that they still haven't given him a clean win over any of the huge babyfaces.Though I think the feud with Morrison may be about elevating Morrison as opposed to burying Sheamus though they have to execute it in the right way.
Andre the Giant Top 10? Ric Flair at 17 is some utter,epic bullshit!!! Love Mysterio but he should also be behind Eddie and HHH.Kane Big Showand Batista don't belong on the list at all and Rick Rude and Kurt Angle are both too.
It can't be in general with Verne Gagne not on it but Big Show (and so many others) on it.
Hogan's top 5 but what epics are you talking about? Of all the compilations, corporate and bootleg, his are definitely some of the worst as far as match quality goes. Edge does have a lot of really great matches over the years with a lot of different guys (Kurt Angle, Eddy Guerrero, Taker). I wouldn't put Edge over Hulk but when it comes to match quality, it's all Edge.
That's the rub, they execute most of their storylines poorly. I like the idea of using Sheamus to push Morrison (only because they have no veterans left to use) but why take the detour through Santino. Maybe the one off where Santino won but to have it go for three weeks waters it down and brings down Sheamus.
All bitching aside, I'm still going to get it.
As far as WWE is concerned Hulk Hogan should be in the top 5.
Vince is a spiteful bitch with that list.
I'll pass on this. I will get the Bobby Heenan dvd tho.
The DVD will feature:
DISC ONE:
Documentary:
*Chicago Roots
*Manage like a Wrestler
*Orange Fire
*Weasel Suit
*Remembering AWA
*Bright Lights, Big City
*Heenan Family
*WrestleMania
*I Am Not a Weasel
*Manager of Champions
*Primetime
*The Bobby Heenan Show
*Commentating with Gorilla
*Leaving WWE
*WCW
*Health Issues
*Hall of Fame
Extras:
*The Executioners
AWA Manager of the Year 1976
AWA All-Star Wrestling – 25th December, 1976
The Wrestling Bear
Centerfold
“Honey, I’m Home!”
The Other Weasel Suit
“I Am Not A Weasel”
Tuesday Night Titans – 2nd October, 1984
Bobby Heenan & Gorilla Monsoon go to Busch Gardens
Prime Time Wrestling – 12th December, 1988
Get Your Popcorn Ready
Golfing Tips with Bobby Heenan & “Mean” Gene Okerlund
Sterling Farms Golf Course – October 1991
Bobby’s Big Entrance
WrestleMania IX – 4th April, 1993
Gorilla Monsoon Fires Bobby Heenan
RAW – 6th December, 1993
The Humor of Bobby Heenan
A Farewell to Gorilla
Nitro – 11th October, 1999
The Wedding Eulogy
“Freakish Noises”
WrestleMania XX – 14th March, 2004
Bobby Heenan’s Induction into the WWE Hall of Fame
WWE Hall of Fame – 13th March, 2004
DISC TWO:
Battle of the Managers
Bobby Heenan vs. Lord Alfred Hayes
AWA St. Paul, MN – 13th January, 1980
Weasel Suit Match
Bobby Heenan vs. Greg Gagne
AWA St. Paul, MN – 17th August, 1980
Handicap Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan
AWA - St. Paul, MN – 2nd May, 1981
Bobby Heenan vs. Salvatore Bellomo
Madison Square Garden – 26th November, 1984
Weasel Suit Match
Bobby Heenan vs. Ultimate Warrior
WrestleFest ‘88 – 31st July, 1988
The Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble – 19th January, 1992
Commentary By: Bobby Heenan & Gorilla Monsoon
Gimmick Battle Royal
WrestleMania X7 – 1st April, 2001
Commentary By: Bobby Heenan & Gene Okerlund
DISC ONE:
Documentary:
*Chicago Roots
*Manage like a Wrestler
*Orange Fire
*Weasel Suit
*Remembering AWA
*Bright Lights, Big City
*Heenan Family
*WrestleMania
*I Am Not a Weasel
*Manager of Champions
*Primetime
*The Bobby Heenan Show
*Commentating with Gorilla
*Leaving WWE
*WCW
*Health Issues
*Hall of Fame
Extras:
*The Executioners
AWA Manager of the Year 1976
AWA All-Star Wrestling – 25th December, 1976
The Wrestling Bear
Centerfold
“Honey, I’m Home!”
The Other Weasel Suit
“I Am Not A Weasel”
Tuesday Night Titans – 2nd October, 1984
Bobby Heenan & Gorilla Monsoon go to Busch Gardens
Prime Time Wrestling – 12th December, 1988
Get Your Popcorn Ready
Golfing Tips with Bobby Heenan & “Mean” Gene Okerlund
Sterling Farms Golf Course – October 1991
Bobby’s Big Entrance
WrestleMania IX – 4th April, 1993
Gorilla Monsoon Fires Bobby Heenan
RAW – 6th December, 1993
The Humor of Bobby Heenan
A Farewell to Gorilla
Nitro – 11th October, 1999
The Wedding Eulogy
“Freakish Noises”
WrestleMania XX – 14th March, 2004
Bobby Heenan’s Induction into the WWE Hall of Fame
WWE Hall of Fame – 13th March, 2004
DISC TWO:
Battle of the Managers
Bobby Heenan vs. Lord Alfred Hayes
AWA St. Paul, MN – 13th January, 1980
Weasel Suit Match
Bobby Heenan vs. Greg Gagne
AWA St. Paul, MN – 17th August, 1980
Handicap Match
Hulk Hogan vs. Nick Bockwinkel & Bobby Heenan
AWA - St. Paul, MN – 2nd May, 1981
Bobby Heenan vs. Salvatore Bellomo
Madison Square Garden – 26th November, 1984
Weasel Suit Match
Bobby Heenan vs. Ultimate Warrior
WrestleFest ‘88 – 31st July, 1988
The Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble – 19th January, 1992
Commentary By: Bobby Heenan & Gorilla Monsoon
Gimmick Battle Royal
WrestleMania X7 – 1st April, 2001
Commentary By: Bobby Heenan & Gene Okerlund
Yeah he is. You see where all the guys who work for TNA get shitted on? Sting didn't even make the list.
That's funny because I'm letting the Heenan joint pass. The only manager worth a dvd is Harley Race (maybe Diamond Dallas Page) because he has a lot of great matches to go with it.
I'm getting the dvd for the doc. I'm sure the matched will be shit.
The list consists of the WWE top 50 superstars.
Politics aside, I'm getting that DVD as well, and going to pass on Heenan DVD. When I get these WWE DVDs they need to have great matches on it as well. Ill keep the documentary portion via Wrestlingbay.
Cena higher than ANGLE? fuck outta here plus no brock?
Its definitely a list that is open for scrutiny. The top five should be Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, The Rock, and John Cena.
Seriously? John Cena instead of HBK? HBK did everything better than Cena, from promos to selling merchandise to face and heel turns, in 3 different eras. And actual wrestling? Not even worth discussing.
Nobody likes Cena except for little kids and young white women that's why he's only good for selling merchandise.
When I say epic I'm talking about his matches being EVENTS. Has Edge even come close to anything such as Hogan vs. Andre The Giant on NBC? Or the match at WM III? How about the match Edge sat in the crowd for at WM VI where Hogan faced Warrior(another person who should be in this imo if it IS a wwe list).
You see I like work-rate and I also take into consideration matches just straight out being fun. Look at the crowd's reaction when Hogan slams Andre at WM III or look how the crowd looks stunned when Hogan lost to Warrior. Hell, even Hogan vs. Piper at Starcade in 1996 was epic simply because of the backstory.
Now look at the story of Edge teaming with Hogan to become a tag champion that should have been epic, but it wasn't. There are not too many people in wrestling history imo that have matches that are larger than life. Yes, Edge has better matches(and he has sucked imo in his return big time), but Edge being above even someone like Foley? Come on now it's an obvious ulterior motive here.
As for Cena I don't hate him as much as others because I see why he is liked. He has improved and too be honest I think some people sometimes rag on him too much as he is being a company guy just like how Nash was in 1995. Let Cena let loose like he was in 2003-4 and watch older fans back him again.
As for the list if it is wwe ranking why in the world is "King" Harley Race in the top ten? He didn't even really main event with the exception of that mini 1988 feud with Hogan(and yes I know he is easily arguable for a top ten guy if we are including his NWA career).
Edge is really over-rated with all those belts he has got over time imo too. The listing is just random be honest because why is Lou Thesz on there then?
DX stuff aside (which isn't just HBK), I'm pretty sure Cena sells more merchandise. As far as being a draw as champion, this might come as a surprise but HBK was never a big draw as champ (ditto to my favorite wrestler, Bret Hart).
Still, taking everything into consideration I still might put HBK in the top 5 over Cena (who does at least deserve to be in the top 10, like the guy or not).
Shawn Micheals was an amazing wrestler but he never drew as champion and thats what I am basing my top 5 on. Plus this is a WWE based poll and I wouldn't take it seriously.
You are right but Cena was just better for business and business is the bottom line.
I thought that but that wouldn't explain the presence of Lou Thesz and Nick Bockwinkel, neither of whom wrestled for the WWWF in any notable way. And the list being "all time" is the only way JYD should even get mentioned.
That I can understand though Hogan was positioned and used differently than Edge. Hogan was the undisputed top dog during the 80 while Edge has always had to share the spotlight with a bunch of other guys (UT, HHH, Cena, HBK, Orton, just to name a few).
I don't know if I'd put Cena over Shawn but he is better than a lot of people give him credit and what talent he has is handcuffed by the limited booking. He's still not great but he's better than he used to be when he was first pushed to the top.
I agree with all these points and I even mentioned Hart and Shawn's poor drawing ability as champs in the "Greatest Wrestler of All Time" thread. I've always enjoyed both guys but they just didn't draw domestically and Shawn never did big business internationally.
What does the man many people claim to be the goat say about this?
@steveaustinBSR Steve Austin
i dont know the criteria for the WWE top 50 list...but i disagree with 85% of it.
---------------
I want to talk about HBK and Bret Hart for a minute and the topic about them not being great draws as champion. IMO, you have to take everything into consideration.
When Bret became champion in 1992 it was in the midst of the steroid scandal and business was taking a hit. He was there to bridge the gap between the superhero era and what would later become the new generation that focused more on workrate.
Sort of taking what Savage started in 1988 and taking it another level as guys like Warrior and so on were being phased out. Now really and truly coming off an era of the wwf with guys like Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Andre The Giant, Randy Savage, and even zombie Taker it is obvious why someone like a Bret or HBK would draw less.
This is to not even include the waning talent pool in 1992-1996 compared to the wwf had when they raided the smaller regions to make the monster international organization.
Guys like HHH who on record drew better houses also had other things in their favor such as the company becoming red hot off the backs of the likes of Taker/Austin/Rock/Foley. Compare that roster to the roster HBK and Bret had when they were on top.
HBK imo proved in his return that if he didn't get injured that perhaps his stock and drawing would have been greater in 1999 and 2000 although some think HBK probably would be on the list of the dead wrestlers now with how he was running wild on the road. Both HBK and Hart were very instrumental in getting Austin over big time for the big run in 1998-2001.
@steveaustinBSR Steve Austin
i dont know the criteria for the WWE top 50 list...but i disagree with 85% of it.
---------------
I want to talk about HBK and Bret Hart for a minute and the topic about them not being great draws as champion. IMO, you have to take everything into consideration.
When Bret became champion in 1992 it was in the midst of the steroid scandal and business was taking a hit. He was there to bridge the gap between the superhero era and what would later become the new generation that focused more on workrate.
Sort of taking what Savage started in 1988 and taking it another level as guys like Warrior and so on were being phased out. Now really and truly coming off an era of the wwf with guys like Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Andre The Giant, Randy Savage, and even zombie Taker it is obvious why someone like a Bret or HBK would draw less.
This is to not even include the waning talent pool in 1992-1996 compared to the wwf had when they raided the smaller regions to make the monster international organization.
Guys like HHH who on record drew better houses also had other things in their favor such as the company becoming red hot off the backs of the likes of Taker/Austin/Rock/Foley. Compare that roster to the roster HBK and Bret had when they were on top.
HBK imo proved in his return that if he didn't get injured that perhaps his stock and drawing would have been greater in 1999 and 2000 although some think HBK probably would be on the list of the dead wrestlers now with how he was running wild on the road. Both HBK and Hart were very instrumental in getting Austin over big time for the big run in 1998-2001.
Mark Henry coming out to his old Sexual Chocolate theme and titantron was funny.
It's great seeing Ron Simmons.
DAMN!!!
DAMN!!!
The WWE signed him back a couple of weeks ago.
It's also good to see that they rid Ted Dibiase Jr. of the Million Dollar Belt gimmick.He might be better as a face.
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Good Ole J.R.
