THE WRESTLING THREAD: HELL HAS FROZE OVER JOHN CENA HAS GONE FULL HEEL

[Deltronz]

While I think adding Katie Lea/Winter gives them another strong worker, TNA should go back to pulling female talent from the indies instead of former Divas.

And get Hamada back on tv, fuck Russo's limitations.

The part in bold is what worries me. That would mean pulling wrestlers out of Shimmer in most likelihood (as they are the top fed in the US for female wrestling talent). Basically, I don't really want to see that happening since Shimmer continually puts on great shows.

It's difficult for me to appreciate a 7 minute TNA Nikki Roxx throwaway match, for example, when I'd easily get 15 minute or longer match with her in Shimmer with competition on her level (if not better) that would actually mean something in the wrestling sense.

You could argue, "But wrestling in TNA gives them more exposure." True, it would certainly mean more for their pay. But as a wrestling fan, I basically care more about the matches themselves.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

The part in bold is what worries me. That would mean pulling wrestlers out of Shimmer in most likelihood (as they are the top fed in the US for female wrestling talent). Basically, I don't really want to see that happening since Shimmer continually puts on great shows.

It's difficult for me to appreciate a 7 minute TNA Nikki Roxx throwaway match, for example, when I'd easily get 15 minute or longer match with her in Shimmer with competition on her level (if not better) that would actually mean something in the wrestling sense.

You could argue, "But wrestling in TNA gives them more exposure." True, it would certainly mean more for their pay. But as a wrestling fan, I basically care more about the matches themselves.

I'm a fan but I know if a wrestler can't make a good living doing it, they'll stop wrestling. A wrestler comes up to TNA, has some good matches, makes some fans and goes back to SHIMMER a year later, hopefully taking some interest with her. That's better for everyone.

When was Nikki Roxx/Roxxi getting 7 mins in TNA? I wish.

 

[Deltronz]

I'm a fan but I know if a wrestler can't make a good living doing it, they'll stop wrestling. A wrestler comes up to TNA, has some good matches, makes some fans and goes back to SHIMMER a year later, hopefully taking some interest with her. That's better for everyone.

When was Nikki Roxx/Roxxi getting 7 mins in TNA? I wish.

I hear what you're saying, but it would interrupt ongoing storylines in established indies feds. Besides, you have a good number of indies wrestlers (like Bryan Danielson until very recently) who had been in the indies scene for ages and were doing just fine there.

Take Sara Del Ray for example. If she were to get pulled away from Chikara right now to be thrown into the TNA Knockout scene for a possible 7 minute match against Lacey Von Erick in a match nobody would care about, it would really hurt my favorite wrestling angle at the moment(let alone the storylines she has in Shimmer).

Although I read an interview about Sara Del Ray being approached by TNA a couple of times, she ultimately got rejected for not being girly enough (which is odd since she's the ultimate PAWG wrestler. Much bigger ass and legs than Thicky Mickey, and a much better wrestler).

 

[c_commander]

I hear what you're saying, but it would interrupt ongoing storylines in established indies feds. Besides, you have a good number of indies wrestlers (like Bryan Danielson until very recently) who had been in the indies scene for ages and were doing just fine there.

Take Sara Del Ray for example. If she were to get pulled away from Chikara right now to be thrown into the TNA Knockout scene for a possible 7 minute match against Lacey Von Erick in a match nobody would care about, it would really hurt my favorite wrestling angle at the moment(let alone the storylines she has in Shimmer).

Although I read an interview about Sara Del Ray being approached by TNA a couple of times, she ultimately got rejected for not being girly enough (which is odd since she's the ultimate PAWG wrestler. Much bigger ass and legs than Thicky Mickey, and a much better wrestler).

I get what you're saying but I don't know if that many Indy wrestlers are established to the point that they can make a good living just doing the Indys. Now the other thing is that TNA isn't paying a huge amount of money(its been reported that the average salary is $200-400 per appearance to female wrestlers) so it would be strictly for exposure.
Besides Del Ray is an average looking woman when she doesn't have the crazy makeup on but it seems as though TNA doesn't care about unique wrestlers preferring to try to go the WWE Diva route as this point.They have some solid workers but it seems as if they have made physical beauty a priority.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I get what you're saying but I don't know if that many Indy wrestlers are established to the point that they can make a good living just doing the Indys. Now the other thing is that TNA isn't paying a huge amount of money(its been reported that the average salary is $200-400 per appearance to female wrestlers) so it would be strictly for exposure.

A reputable source has it at $350, compared to $500 for Divas.

Besides Del Ray is an average looking woman when she doesn't have the crazy makeup on but it seems as though TNA doesn't care about unique wrestlers preferring to try to go the WWE Diva route as this point.They have some solid workers but it seems as if they have made physical beauty a priority.

Which is the exact opposite of how it started when Scott D'Amore was in charge of it. Madison Rayne would be a three time champion only under the auspices of Vince Russo, who dismisses women wrestling.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I hear what you're saying, but it would interrupt ongoing storylines in established indies feds. Besides, you have a good number of indies wrestlers (like Bryan Danielson until very recently) who had been in the indies scene for ages and were doing just fine there.

Take Sara Del Ray for example. If she were to get pulled away from Chikara right now to be thrown into the TNA Knockout scene for a possible 7 minute match against Lacey Von Erick in a match nobody would care about, it would really hurt my favorite wrestling angle at the moment(let alone the storylines she has in Shimmer).

Although I read an interview about Sara Del Ray being approached by TNA a couple of times, she ultimately got rejected for not being girly enough (which is odd since she's the ultimate PAWG wrestler. Much bigger ass and legs than Thicky Mickey, and a much better wrestler).

D, I'm not saying anyone has to go anywhere right now but for the long term health of women's wrestling in general (this counts for the men too), the better women need more exposure. SHIMMER is great for developing talent but sooner or later, they need to be able to earn some real money or they're out and then we don't see them at all.
Danielson did make a nice living on the indies but most guys aren't making "American Dragon" money. Until he got a contract from ROH guaranteeing him a certain dollar amount, Davey Richards was going to retire next year.

 

[Deltronz]

Besides Del Ray is an average looking woman when she doesn't have the crazy makeup on but it seems as though TNA doesn't care about unique wrestlers preferring to try to go the WWE Diva route as this point.They have some solid workers but it seems as if they have made physical beauty a priority.

I'm not claiming Sara Del Ray is a dime (I'm actually more into her for her wrestling abilities, and her skills as a ring general), but no "average" chick has as thick a legs as she has nor as thick an ass as she has, while having a flat stomach to match. It is what it is Certainly a lot of TNA's women have better faces, but body-wise no one is seeing Del Ray in TNA

 

[Deltronz]

D, I'm not saying anyone has to go anywhere right now but for the long term health of women's wrestling in general (this counts for the men too), the better women need more exposure. SHIMMER is great for developing talent but sooner or later, they need to be able to earn some real money or they're out and then we don't see them at all.
Danielson did make a nice living on the indies but most guys aren't making "American Dragon" money. Until he got a contract from ROH guaranteeing him a certain dollar amount, Davey Richards was going to retire next year.

I guess I'm selfish. I like the feds I like as they are. It gets annoying when a hot feud is going on, with a wealth of talent involved, with an appreciative crowd to watch, and then key people get pulled away to do throwaway matches no one cares about (while not really getting enough time to get in their groove) because WWE or TNA has money to throw away.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I guess I'm selfish. I like the feds I like as they are. It gets annoying when a hot feud is going on, with a wealth of talent involved, with an appreciative crowd to watch, and then key people get pulled away to do throwaway matches no one cares about (while not really getting enough time to get in their groove) because WWE or TNA has money to throw away.

Hey, if they give it to good talent, it's not thrown away. I feel where you're coming from, that's probably how people in Portland, Calgary and San Antonio felt back in the territory days when good talent would get swept up by the larger territories like WWWF, Georgia, Florida and Mid Atlantic.

 

[BCAA2009]

So Matt Morgan lost at Turning Point.


He'll get put into a feud with Abyss next........just watch.

 

[Deltronz]

Hey, if they give it to good talent, it's not thrown away. I feel where you're coming from, that's probably how people in Portland, Calgary and San Antonio felt back in the territory days when good talent would get swept up by the larger territories like WWWF, Georgia, Florida and Mid Atlantic.

Not thrown away in the "these guys can't work, but lets bring them in anyway" sense. But in the, "these guys are fantastic workers. Lets give you some ridiculous gimmick which masks your abilities, and have you wrestle in matches for feuds no one will care about and not give you much screen time" sense.

WWE or TNA can financially afford to do that, but its not something that many want to happen.

 

[ThaBurgerPimp]

gotta see next week's "Old School" Raw..liked how the commercials used the old
USA Network graphics font..

or course we all know that hulk hogan wont be part of it

 

[theoriginalgreatone]

where the pix @?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

So Matt Morgan lost at Turning Point.


He'll get put into a feud with Abyss next........just watch.

Probably. But I hope they hold off on it. Those two didn't mesh well last year and they both work better with smaller wrestlers.
I like Morgan and he's got a world of potential but they screwed his face turn and his getting the title shot up. I know it was last minute but damn.
Fire Russo and Bischoff.

Not thrown away in the "these guys can't work, but lets bring them in anyway" sense. But in the, "these guys are fantastic workers. Lets give you some ridiculous gimmick which masks your abilities, and have you wrestle in matches for feuds no one will care about and not give you much screen time" sense.

WWE or TNA can financially afford to do that, but its not something that many want to happen.

I know what you meant, I was being a dick.
Though TNA and WWE throws away money in the first sense too. I would love for Sara Del Ray to come to TNA but not under the current creative direction. If the Knockouts were under someone who respected what they do (like Dutch Mantel or D'Amore), I'd love for her to come in. Plus they could bring back Kong and ODB.

 

[The Pope]

^^^^^
At the end of the day the TNA divas reign supreme over the WWE divas.

 

[chrislee]

RAW Main Event Plans - Wade Barrett vs. Sheamus?

WWE's creative team has discussed holding a Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett program at some point in 2011.

The Nexus spokesman is said to be "super over" with key personnel in the organization and has consequently overtaken the position held by Sheamus earlier this year. They also feel he has surpassed the "Celtic Warrior" in garnering heat from the audience.

Also on tap for Barrett is the climax of his feud with John Cena early next year, and a subsequent WrestleMania program with The Undertaker—providing the SmackDown! star is healthy.

Barrett and Sheamus, as well Cena and Randy Orton, are considered the focal points of RAW going forward, until Triple H returns and joins the main event mix. Sheamus' current program with John Morrison is considered a placeholder feud until the "King of Kings" returns to action.
http://www.prowrestlingscoops.com/article/290991803.php

With the difficulty of creating a face character that can get over with the crowd and be moved into main event status as a money maker that makes it even more unlikely that Cena will make the heel turn. I don't see Triple H retiring anytime soon and at the most he'll probably work a light schedule untill they can get a face over to main event level. I think Morrison will eventually get a month title run by next year. If Daniel Bryan's following continues to grow and Vince listens to the fans he could be a champ on Smackdown in the future.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

RAW Main Event Plans - Wade Barrett vs. Sheamus?



With the difficulty of creating a face character that can get over with the crowd and be moved into main event status as a money maker that makes it even more unlikely that Cena will make the heel turn. I don't see Triple H retiring anytime soon and at the most he'll probably work a light schedule untill they can get a face over to main event level. I think Morrison will eventually get a month title run by next year. If Daniel Bryan's following continues to grow and Vince listens to the fans he could be a champ on Smackdown in the future.

I find that article amazing because after the "Buried Alive" match, I was starting to think that Barrett was being set up for Taker at Mania. Interesting that he's passed Sheamus but that's exactly what's happened. He's feuding with Randy Orton and programmed with John Cena while Sheamus has been wrestling Santino and looks to be headed toward John Morrison, a clear demotion.
If Daniel Bryan can learn to cut some more WWE style promos, he might get a run on Smackdown but I don't see it. He's going to be the new Rick Steamboat for them: a guy that always has great matches but never gets the title.

 

[The Pope]

I find that article amazing because after the "Buried Alive" match, I was starting to think that Barrett was being set up for Taker at Mania. Interesting that he's passed Sheamus but that's exactly what's happened. He's feuding with Randy Orton and programmed with John Cena while Sheamus has been wrestling Santino and looks to be headed toward John Morrison, a clear demotion.
If Daniel Bryan can learn to cut some more WWE style promos, he might get a run on Smackdown but I don't see it. He's going to be the new Rick Steamboat for them: a guy that always has great matches but never gets the title.

I'm pretty sure Triple H has something to do with the Wade Barrett push, I can't think of nothing wrong Sheamus has done wrong but doing storylines with Santino is way down there so he must just don't have " it ".

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I'm pretty sure Triple H has something to do with the Wade Barrett push, I can't think of nothing wrong Sheamus has done wrong but doing storylines with Santino is way down there so he must just don't have " it ".

But HHH was behind Sheamus, that was well known since Sheamus became HHH's training/workout partner while they traveled. This is probably more of how they push a new guy then drop him down to see how he handles it.

 

[The Pope]

But HHH was behind Sheamus, that was well known since Sheamus became HHH's training/workout partner while they traveled. This is probably more of how they push a new guy then drop him down to see how he handles it.

so when are they going to drop Cena down ??

 

[Upgrade Dave]

so when are they going to drop Cena down ??

Never. Cena's not new. Anyone that came after Brock Lesnar has gotten the same treatment. Brock shook them bad and cost them a lot of money, dipping the way he did. Since then, no one has gotten that same kind of monster push.

 

[dtownsfinest]

so when are they going to drop Cena down ??

When their money starts to drop "down".

^^^^^
At the end of the day the TNA divas reign supreme over the WWE divas.

Damn I don't know about that. Especially with Lacey Von Erich. Tara is the only good female wrestler I see on TNA. WWE has some female wrestlers who flat out suck(Bellas), have potential(Eve, Alicia) and have solid wrestlers(Natalya, Tamina, Beth, etc.). I see some decent wrestlers in TNA but their female wrestlers have more botched moves than a episode of NXT.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

When their money starts to drop "down".



Damn I don't know about that. Especially with Lacey Von Erich. Tara is the only good female wrestler I see on TNA. WWE has some female wrestlers who flat out suck(Bellas), have potential(Eve, Alicia) and have solid wrestlers(Natalya, Tamina, Beth, etc.). I see some decent wrestlers in TNA but their female wrestlers have more botched moves than a episode of NXT.

I agree. It used to be Knockouts>Divas but it's switched up since Kong left and Hamada, Sarita, and Taylor Wilde stopped being used regularly. Even with Beth Phoenix out, the Divas are putting on good matches when they're allowed to (amazing but WWE still only gives them 2 minutes). I watched Layla and Kelly Kelly have a really good match on Superstars a couple weeks ago, better than any Knockout match in months. They say Tara and Mickey had a good match on Turning Point Sunday, so hopefully they're turning it around.

The biggest punchline of the whole thing is hearing Mike Tenay say Lacey's away right now training Ms. Tessmacher. Even Taz laughed out loud on the air to that.

 

[dtownsfinest]

I agree. It used to be Knockouts>Divas but it's switched up since Kong left and Hamada, Sarita, and Taylor Wilde stopped being used regularly. Even with Beth Phoenix out, the Divas are putting on good matches when they're allowed to (amazing but WWE still only gives them 2 minutes). I watched Layla and Kelly Kelly have a really good match on Superstars a couple weeks ago, better than any Knockout match in months. They say Tara and Mickey had a good match on Turning Point Sunday, so hopefully they're turning it around.

The biggest punchline of the whole thing is hearing Mike Tenay say Lacey's away right now training Ms. Tessmacher. Even Taz laughed out loud on the air to that.

Co-sign. And I saw that episode. I don't know if Taz meant to laugh on air but I had the same reaction. I mean t hey couldn't just not mention her on the telecast? Instead they come up with that bullshit and Taz laughs pretty much shows how much of a joke she is. Which i'm shocked by with her last name being Von Erich.

I didn't see Turning Point I can believe Mickie and Tara had a good match. They are good wrestlers. But I always felt TNA had the better roster of female wrestlers and now its the complete opposite which i'll credit to some Divas becoming better wrestlers and like you said TNA losing some of its quality wrestlers.

I've just completely left TNA. Are they still in talk with Heyman and what role will he play in the production of the show because TNA is laughable at this point. Do they ever plan on competing with Raw at some point or are they fine with their current programming?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Co-sign. And I saw that episode. I don't know if Taz meant to laugh on air but I had the same reaction. I mean t hey couldn't just not mention her on the telecast? Instead they come up with that bullshit and Taz laughs pretty much shows how much of a joke she is. Which i'm shocked by with her last name being Von Erich.

I think it's pretty open that Lacey's horrible but she seems to be really nice and she is hella hot to look at. She should never be more than a valet.

I've just completely left TNA. Are they still in talk with Heyman and what role will he play in the production of the show because TNA is laughable at this point. Do they ever plan on competing with Raw at some point or are they fine with their current programming?

Heyman's out. It would take a near cratering of their ratings for them to bring in Heyman under the conditions he wants.
I think the idea of competing with Raw is over and it should be, they should focus only on what they do and not what Vince does. The main problem with TNA is Dixie Carter's lack of experience in the wrestling business. Without that, she doesn't know the snakeoil salesmen from the legit wrestling minds hence Bischoff and Russon still having jobs and Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell not. Her heart's in the right place and she gets the whole thing about connecting personally with fans in a way Vince McMahon has never understood but she doesn't know what she doesn't know and she's surrounded by people who never recognized their own weaknesses and blame their downfalls on everybody else.

 

[dtownsfinest]

I think it's pretty open that Lacey's horrible but she seems to be really nice and she is hella hot to look at. She should never be more than a valet.




Heyman's out. It would take a near cratering of their ratings for them to bring in Heyman under the conditions he wants.
I think the idea of competing with Raw is over and it should be, they should focus only on what they do and not what Vince does. The main problem with TNA is Dixie Carter's lack of experience in the wrestling business. Without that, she doesn't know the snakeoil salesmen from the legit wrestling minds hence Bischoff and Russon still having jobs and Jim Cornette and Dutch Mantell not. Her heart's in the right place and she gets the whole thing about connecting personally with fans in a way Vince McMahon has never understood but she doesn't know what she doesn't know and she's surrounded by people who never recognized their own weaknesses and blame their downfalls on everybody else.

Well when I say compete with WWE I mean simply as far as product goes. Not even in the same time slot. Just the quality of programming is shit. They're rehashing all of these old story lines. And how did AJ Styles go from having the world title to defending some TV shit? I think they should honestly say fuck all of these WWE guys like Jeff Hardy, RVD, ECW and build the brand around Fortune which is probably the only thing I can say TNA is doing right about now and Elijah and Mr. Anderson which are WWE guys but are having far more success now than when they were in the WWE. Guys like Jeff Hardy, Sting, Dudley's....those guys shouldn't even be seen on TNA's programming.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Well when I say compete with WWE I mean simply as far as product goes. Not even in the same time slot. Just the quality of programming is shit. They're rehashing all of these old story lines. And how did AJ Styles go from having the world title to defending some TV shit? I think they should honestly say fuck all of these WWE guys like Jeff Hardy, RVD, ECW and build the brand around Fortune which is probably the only thing I can say TNA is doing right about now and Elijah and Mr. Anderson which are WWE guys but are having far more success now than when they were in the WWE. Guys like Jeff Hardy, Sting, Dudley's....those guys shouldn't even be seen on TNA's programming.

I like the TV title and AJ as champ is cool as long as they use him to elevate the title. AJ Styles should be wrestling and defending that thing every week in 10 min tv matches where he gets to shine as a wrestler. The WCW and ECW tv titles were important and the TNA one can be too.
TNA can't build past a certain point with just the Fortune guys, who are mostly TNA-grown. Hardy, RVD and a lot of the ECW guys bring recent name recognition and can still work and bring in revenue on the house show circuit. Jeff Jarrett and the Dudleys fit in that same mold and they should all be about making it seem like the less nationally recognized names are on their level. The Dudleys have been busting it to make Beer Money, the British Invasion, and the Motor City Machine Guns look like the next great tag teams (they screwed up breaking up the BI).
Companies need well traveled veterans to help out the young guys who have never wrestled in front of more than 500 people or never on live television. It's the Kevin Nashes and Stings who need to go. They're expensive and they're breaking down badly physically. At least Sting sell merch still. Him, Hogan, and Flair should be doing public relations and meet and greets with Flair being the only guy who should be on tv in a secondary role.

 

[Deltronz]

I didn't see Turning Point I can believe Mickie and Tara had a good match. They are good wrestlers.

I watched the entire PPV. Three good matches, and the Tara/Mickie James match was one of them (albeit, completely carried by Tara).

 

[dirtyd]

I watched the entire PPV. Three good matches, and the Tara/Mickie James match was one of them (albeit, completely carried by Tara).

Personally i thought MCM vs 3D was the only good match, this ppv had a bragging rights feel to it

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Got my Mania tickets a few minutes ago without one match announced and I'm still . I hope this doesn't suck. At least I know Money In The Bank will be a spectacle.

 

[tiptop1]

NoDQ.com > WWE > WWE's Top 50 Superstars list revealed
Posted by Roscoe De Soto on 11/12/2010 at 08:34 PM

WWE will be releasing a DVD called the "Top 50 Superstars of All Time" and The Wrestling Observer has revealed that Shawn Michaels will be revealed as the #1 superstar of all time on the release. Rounding out the top 10 includes Michaels, The Undertaker, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, The Rock, Harley Race, Ricky Steamboat, Andre the Giant, Rey Mysterio and Roddy Piper. No doubt this list will be controversial.

Here is how the full list looks from 1 to 50:

1. Shawn Michaels
2. The Undertaker
3. Steve Austin
4. Bret Hart
5. The Rock
6. Harley Race
7. Ricky Steamboat
8. Andre the Giant
9. Rey Mysterio
10. Roddy Piper
11. Eddie Guerrero
12. Triple H
13. Gorgeous George
14. Randy Savage
15. Curt Hennig
16. John Cena
17. Ric Flair
18. Dusty Rhodes
19. Edge
20. Jerry Lawler
21. Lou Thesz
22. Terry Funk
23. Hulk Hogan
24. Bruno Sammartino
25. Chris Jericho
26. Ted DiBiase
27. Fabulous Moolah
28. Freddie Blassie
29. Randy Orton
30. Pat Patterson
31. The Iron Sheik
32. Jimmy Snuka
33. Mick Foley
34. Kurt Angle
35. Buddy Rogers
36. Gorilla Monsoon
37. Junkyard Dog
38. Billy Graham
39. Jake Roberts
40. Big Show
41. Jack Brisco
42. Sgt. Slaughter
43. Kane
44. Nick Bockwinkel
45. Jeff Hardy
46. Dory Funk Jr.
47. Bob Backlund
48. Rick Rude
49. Batista
50. Killer Kowalski

 

[The Pope]

Damn they have Cena ranked higher than Hogan, Jericho, and Angle ????

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

Another biased ass WWE list. They know Hogan, Angle and Foley were way better than Cena and Orton. Ric Flair right under Cena?

 

[dirtyd]

Another biased ass WWE list. They know Hogan, Angle and Foley were way better than Cena and Orton. Ric Flair right under Cena?

I think they do this shit on purpose just to piss people off. I know i can't be the only one who's embarrassed by abyss and TNA, hogans talking about they're going to start to get real but look at their very unrealistic product now. Hogan said if you can't draw, sell merch, put asses in the seat and get ratings then you're gone, well then it's time to fire about 90% of the roster

 

[The Pope]

Another biased ass WWE list. They know Hogan, Angle and Foley were way better than Cena and Orton. Ric Flair right under Cena?

c/s I don't have a problem with the first 2 however seeing that Taker hasn't lost a Wrestlemanins yet and being he did beat HBK in the last two WM he should be no.1 but two matches don't make a career. I guess with Cena being their poster boy right now is the reason he's as high as he is.