BREAKING: INVASION HAS BEGUN..... Putin's "3-day war"... NOW... 1 YEAR 338 DAYS ...WAGNER HEAD SAYS GROUP STANDING DOWN AFTER CLAIMS OF DEAL
- Thread starter lightbright
- Start date
RU's security issue is one of their own making. They pretend they can't rationalize the expansion of NATO, when it's so obvious the reason is that all those small, former soviet block countries are scared as hell of RU taking them back. If they weren't such bullies perhaps that wouldn't be the case, but it is. Sweden and Finland definitely felt threatened.
Of course you have zero idea what you are talking about.
Read below:
During a Feb. 9, 1990, meeting between Baker and Gorbachev.
After explaining why the U.S. wanted the reunited Germany to stay within the framework of NATO, Baker told Gorbachevthat "if we maintain a presence in a Germany that is a part of NATO, there would be no extension of NATO's jurisdiction for forces of NATO 1 inch to the east."
"I put the following question to (Gorbachev)," Baker recounted in a letter to German Chancellor Helmut Kohl. "‘Would you prefer to see a united Germany outside of NATO, independent and with no U.S. forces, or would you prefer a unified Germany to be tied to NATO, with assurances that NATO’s jurisdiction would not shift 1 inch eastward from its present position?’"
The US never put that promise in writing though, pretty slick. Now they say, they never promised anything.
It’s not Western idology that RU is worried about, it is a US military base at their border.
What reason would Ukraine have to start a war? That’s not the point. NATO is an organization that was formed specifically to be an adversary to Russia. It is by definition their enemy.Why would Russia be Ok with an enemy moving in to their neighbor?
NATO was formed to provide a common defense pact to counter the threat of the USSR. The USSR imploded under the weight of communism and totalitarianism. Following that, RU felt much more vulnerable without the tributes of their former vassal countries. Then their economic situation improved as a result of developing vast energy resources, so they began growing and posturing their military to intimidate all of those former soviet block nations as well as those to their north west. Ask yourself why Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Romania weren't afraid of NATO. Its because they were much, much, much, more afraid of RU. Why?
Apparently it is you who don't know what the hell you're talking about.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say somebody is lying or playing stupid. Nah fuck that....
Here's Gorbachev's words himself:
Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"
Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...
www.brookings.edu
Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls
The first and last president of the Soviet Union spoke with RBTH about the past and how it should inform the present.
So I guess we should just ignore the Secretary of State who said that he did exactly what I said!.Apparently it is you who don't know what the hell you're talking about.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say somebody is lying or playing stupid. Nah fuck that....
Here's Gorbachev's words himself:
Did NATO Promise Not to Enlarge? Gorbachev Says "No"
Russian President Vladimir Putin has made it well known his antipathy towards NATO, claiming the Alliance took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. Steven Pifer argues that no such promises were...Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls
The first and last president of the Soviet Union spoke with RBTH about the past and how it should inform the present.www.rbth.com
people are so emotionally connected with this anti-Russia shit that they don’t realize the mess this government is getting us into.
Here is a speech by a University of Chicago professor who 7 years ago told us that Russia would invade Ukraine. He explained why they would, as I have above, and how if we didn’t change our policy we would end up exactly where we are.
He must be Nostradomous.
"The Biological Threat Reduction Program supports many joint research projects through which Ukrainian and American scientists work together. The last few examples of such projects are given below: "
"Overview: The Biological Threat Reduction Program (BTRP), part of the Department of Defense’s Cooperative Threat Reduction (CTR) Program, is implemented by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA). Since 2005, BTRP has partnered with the Government of Ukraine to support peaceful and safe biological detection and diagnostic capabilities and to reduce the threats posed by pathogens"
How about the Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland? Is she a conspiracy theorist?
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HAPPY ANNIVERSARY...... COON...OP is spreading more gossip than TMZ.
USA, Inc. NEEDS a war because it is destitute and has to find someone to pillage but there are only a few places left, none of which are viable options so this BS is tossed out.
This shit is hilarious. You're so dug in to your propagandized bullshit that you will pull out all of the stops to find anything to cling on, even if it doesn't support your original claim in post 8,789.
I'm sorry I was easily able to debunk another one of your propagandized Russia talking points
And if you pull back the layers, its hilariously ironic who that originated from.
Fact-checking claims that NATO broke agreement on expansion
Two days before Russia invaded Ukraine with an assault that intelligence officials had warned was coming, conservative c
www.politifact.com
I provided you an interview from a first person account who said what you said was a lie and explained what Baker's so called promise really meant and you come back with a lecture from some associate professor that wasn't even privy to the conversation????
Take the "L" and sit this one out bro.
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That Russian propaganda plant is flailing it's ass off........This shit is hilarious. You're so dug in to your propagandized bullshit that you will pull out all of the stops to find anything to cling on, even if it doesn't support your original claim in post 8,789.
I'm sorry I was easily able to debunk another one of your propagandized Russia talking points
Fact-checking claims that NATO broke agreement on expansion
Two days before Russia invaded Ukraine with an assault that intelligence officials had warned was coming, conservative c
I provided you an interview from a first person account who said what you said was a lie and explained what Baker's so called promise really meant and you come back with a lecture from some associate professor that wasn't even privy to the conversation????
Take the "L" and sit this one out bro.
With the anniversary of the RU invasion of UK upon us, it is interesting to look back at how some of the early post in this thread have aged.
Nice reporting, @lightbright - it is Feb 17 now. No invasion
Russian President Vladimir Putin likely planned to boast about a nuclear-missile test in his Tuesday State of the Nation address, but the launch failed, CNN reported, citing two US officials.
www.yahoo.com
Putin wanted to boast about Russia launching a nuclear-capable ICBM — but the launch failed so he couldn't, report says
Putin hoped to use a landmark annual speech to mention the recent launch of the Sarmat missile, nicknamed Satan II, but CNN said it failed.
You are saying you don't trust noted geopolitical expert Candace Owens on this one?This shit is hilarious. You're so dug in to your propagandized bullshit that you will pull out all of the stops to find anything to cling on, even if it doesn't support your original claim in post 8,789.
I'm sorry I was easily able to debunk another one of your propagandized Russia talking points
Fact-checking claims that NATO broke agreement on expansion
Two days before Russia invaded Ukraine with an assault that intelligence officials had warned was coming, conservative c
I provided you an interview from a first person account who said what you said was a lie and explained what Baker's so called promise really meant and you come back with a lecture from some associate professor that wasn't even privy to the conversation????
Take the "L" and sit this one out bro.
Seriously, I have to give it to Putin though. One year into this special operation and he has not only managed to expose his entire military as a paper tiger but has also accomplished what was previously thought to be impossible: the expansion of NATO. A war to counter the expansion of NATO that only results in the actual expansion of NATO?
You saw how that coon raced into this thread for the first post, minutes after my posting it....now he has to take Harvey Levin out on a fag date for the anniversary
OP is spreading more gossip than TMZ.
USA, Inc. NEEDS a war because it is destitute and has to find someone to pillage but there are only a few places left, none of which are viable options so this BS is tossed out.
And this is the other "Wonder Twin" coon/cac
\
This war should be over in about 6-8 months.
1.) Either Putin launches an ICBM at a NATO allied country or US and fight the world with China at its side to the destruction of all mankind.
2.) Or, Putin suffer the consequences, denounce the war, retreat his forces, and face his death as a coward and have his 'Motherland' look humiliated in the history books.
I believe he'll take the 1st option.
1.) Either Putin launches an ICBM at a NATO allied country or US and fight the world with China at its side to the destruction of all mankind.
2.) Or, Putin suffer the consequences, denounce the war, retreat his forces, and face his death as a coward and have his 'Motherland' look humiliated in the history books.
I believe he'll take the 1st option.
Wagner group reports losing 100 troops a day
Not really. It was designed to be an adversary to the USSR and the Warsaw Pact countries. Maybe NATO should've been dissolved when those things went away but Russia under Putin has made it necessary to keep NATO in the eyes of many.
Agreed that NATO is necessary. My only point is to try and think like your enemy thinks.
How far do you think Russia would go to stop NATO from being next door to them? Do you think Russia will lose this war, and just go crawl under a rock, given they have all those nukes?
Pure coincidence that our resident freethinkers™ always regurgitate right wing talking points on everything from the vaccine to this conflict.
Maybe some of those "right wing talking points" are true. The CNN/MSNBC is strong in you. Always repeating the government propaganda. Have we found those WMD's in Iraq yet?
Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule
Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.
The account chimes with what Putin told the late David Frost in a BBC interview shortly before he was first inaugurated as Russian president more than 21 years ago. Putin told Frost he would not rule out joining Nato “if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner”.
He told Frost it was hard for him to visualise Nato as an enemy. “Russia is part of the European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world.”
www.theguardian.com
Putin Says 'Why Not?' to Russia Joining NATO
Acting Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an unexpected gesture to the West, suggested in a television interview today that Russia would consider joining NATO if the Western alliance agreed to treat Russia as an equal partner.
"Why not? Why not?" Putin said when asked by BBC interviewer David Frost about Russian membership. "I do not rule out such a possibility . . . in the case that Russia's interests will be reckoned with, if it will be an equal partner."
"Russia is a part of European culture, and I do not consider my own country in isolation from Europe and from . . . what we often talk about as the civilized world," Putin said. "Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy."
Putin Says He Discussed Russia's Possible NATO Membership With Bill Clinton
Speaking with Stone in what appears to be Putin's presidential plane, the Russian leader recalls one of his final meetings with Clinton, who left office in January 2001.
"During the meeting I said, 'We would consider an option that Russia might join NATO,'" Putin says. "Clinton answered, 'I have no objection.' But the entire U.S. delegation got very nervous."
www.rferl.org
Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.
The account chimes with what Putin told the late David Frost in a BBC interview shortly before he was first inaugurated as Russian president more than 21 years ago. Putin told Frost he would not rule out joining Nato “if and when Russia’s views are taken into account as those of an equal partner”.
He told Frost it was hard for him to visualise Nato as an enemy. “Russia is part of the European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world.”
Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule
George Robertson recalls Russian president did not want to wait in line with ‘countries that don’t matter’
Putin Says 'Why Not?' to Russia Joining NATO
Acting Russian President Vladimir Putin, in an unexpected gesture to the West, suggested in a television interview today that Russia would consider joining NATO if the Western alliance agreed to treat Russia as an equal partner.
"Why not? Why not?" Putin said when asked by BBC interviewer David Frost about Russian membership. "I do not rule out such a possibility . . . in the case that Russia's interests will be reckoned with, if it will be an equal partner."
"Russia is a part of European culture, and I do not consider my own country in isolation from Europe and from . . . what we often talk about as the civilized world," Putin said. "Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy."
Putin Says He Discussed Russia's Possible NATO Membership With Bill Clinton
Speaking with Stone in what appears to be Putin's presidential plane, the Russian leader recalls one of his final meetings with Clinton, who left office in January 2001.
"During the meeting I said, 'We would consider an option that Russia might join NATO,'" Putin says. "Clinton answered, 'I have no objection.' But the entire U.S. delegation got very nervous."
Putin Says He Discussed Russia's Possible NATO Membership With Bill Clinton
Russian President Vladimir Putin has claimed that he once raised the possibility of Russia joining NATO with then-President Bill Clinton, and that Clinton said he had "no objection."
www.rferl.org
Tucker Carlson: Iraqis Are ‘Semiliterate Primitive Monkeys’
He also described Iraqi culture as a “culture where people just don't use toilet paper or forks.”
Resorting to nukes is a losing proposition. No one wins a nuclear win, not with the payload the US and RF have.
If they didn't want NATO at their doorstep, they went about it the wrong way.
Finland already shares a border with two other small NATO nations with Russia, making it the longest border.
What is the argument, then?
Because it's his final remaining chip and he's all in, Putin will threaten nuclear war.
Russia won't survive if Putin launches nuclear warheads; if he loses the war, his own people kill him.
Once more, his own people will kill him before he takes that choice.
Despite having 55 nuclear submarines on alert, 1 US nuclear submarine can destroy the entirety of Russia.
China will merely observe, except for the other 30 NATO members who will fight alongside us.
Russia won't survive if Putin launches nuclear warheads; if he loses the war, his own people kill him.
Once more, his own people will kill him before he takes that choice.
Despite having 55 nuclear submarines on alert, 1 US nuclear submarine can destroy the entirety of Russia.
China will merely observe, except for the other 30 NATO members who will fight alongside us.
You do realize the scenario you presented, and are calling for is that Putin (an extremely popular Russian leader) would try and launch a nuclear attack and his own people would kill him instead. Maybe you’re right.
But why in the FUCK would we want to be in that situation.
How confident that Putin won’t launch the nukes before being killed, 90%, 95%. That means your outcome has a 5-10 percent chance of nuclear war.
If you can’t see that this is a bad idea, I really have nothing else to say.
I guess you figured it out. Ukraine will win the war, and Russia will kill Putin and nothing bad could possibly happen in that scenario.
Guess we should give Ukraine more billions