Lost S06E09
http://hotfile.com/dl/34285322/a8bd235/www.bayw.org.Lost.S06E09.REPACK.HDTV.XviD.NoTV.avi.html
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**** Official "LOST" Final Season Discussion Thread ****
- Thread starter whackjobgrim
- Start date
Lost S06E09
http://hotfile.com/dl/34285322/a8bd235/www.bayw.org.Lost.S06E09.REPACK.HDTV.XviD.NoTV.avi.html
Great Episode.
MIB said to Richard on the ship the same thing Flocke said Richard by the statue.
MIB said to Richard about killing Jacob, "don't let him talk he can be very convincing" the same thing Dogen said to Sayid about killing Flocke. Richard ended up following Jacob just like Sayid ended up following Flocke.
Sayid killed Dogen. Is that what brought Jacob back to life?
MIB said to Richard about killing Jacob, "don't let him talk he can be very convincing" the same thing Dogen said to Sayid about killing Flocke. Richard ended up following Jacob just like Sayid ended up following Flocke.
Sayid killed Dogen. Is that what brought Jacob back to life?
What year was it again when Richard was trying to help his wife? I ask that because I found it a little funny that you could hear some of his Cuban accent come out.
the puzzle pieces are FINALLY starting to come together! Only thing left to really answer is what does Widmore plan to do with the Island?
Jacob is still dead. He appears to Hurley because he can communicate with the dead.
What about when he was with the MIB or are they in some sort of parallel reality?
That was a flashback to when Richard and the Black Rock came to the island in the 1800's.
Ok. They put it at the end after Richard was looking for the MIB. Confused me.
off topic looks like things will finally start jumping off on V next week..
good episode. probably the best this season. but of course, they leave us with another question. Why wont Jacob let MIB off the island. Im guessing, because if he leaves, the island will be one big dark place.
Richard should have also asked MIB, how the hell is he the smoke monster.
Richard should have also asked MIB, how the hell is he the smoke monster.
it could be. remember, jacob said he brought the boat to the island, which could mean, he caused the storm to happen, thus making the ship come in their direction.
but my question is, why does Jacob let MIB kill people for no reason.
If he leaves he'll wreak havoc on the world. Also only certain people get killed by the smoke monster. I don't think the smoke monster has killed anyone good. Also Richard didn't ask how he was the smoke monster- he thought he was in hell.
so everyone on the ship, above deck was evil? we didnt even know who they were. Hanso was evil?
Didnt the smoke monster kill the french team. They had just gotten to the island.
I don't think all the rules have been explained yet.
I think he would have killed Richared to but figured with his situation and desperation he d be the easiest to manipulate using his wife as leverage.
I think he only killed 1 of the french team,the rest went crazy and killed each other.
but he still killed one. for what reason? the guy who got his arms ripped off. Rousseau killed the rest. The smoke monster also killed the Pilot of flight 815.
That's why I don't think all the rules have been explained yet.I think he can't kill the 1ns touched by Jacob or the candidates only pervert them.
Hopefully they'll explain all the rules.
My Theory (CP warning)
Really good episode last night.
Here were the critical things that got explained last night
1. Jacob's (and his underlings) purpose is to keep MIB/Smokie on the island. Its more or less explained that if he gets off the whole world goes to hell.
2. Jacob's not working alone. He says to MIB, If I'm killed someone will replace me. This implies Jacob not only has underlings, but also is part of some "greater" organization which understands his reason for being there. More on this later.
3. Jacob tell's Richard that he has the power to bring people to the island AND they always die.
4. Jacob and M.I.B are playing some sort of game or bet over peoples souls. On whether they can be corrupted or not. This is probably why the smoke monster either CAN't kill certain people or chooses not to. I think he can't kill certain people because they are candidates. I think MIB chooses NOT to kill certain people because they possess (or lack) certain qualities that he can use to manipulate them against their will. Think back to Eko back in season two. Eko was not killed the first time he encountered by the MIB, but he wasn't chosen as one of the good people by the "others" either. So I think MIB was thinking Eko was someone he could use. Once Eko delcared himself free of sin, the Smoke monster killed him.
My theory is that Jacob has been put in place to be not only the guardian of MIB but also to redeem or rehabilitate him if possible. The game/bet is Jacob's futile attempt to see if he can convince MIB that some people are not corruptible and that therefore evil is not truly in the nature of man.
If correct, the only logical explanation is that Jacob is a "angel" or minor deity of some sort whose been put in place by God to pit wills against the "devil". The bible is littered with these kind of tests where Satan and God basically bet that they can corrupt a certain person by testing them under certain situations. This is just an extended test of that type.
The way Jacob explained "Free will" is very Christian idea And the whole way he appears to people off the island is very reminiscent of other "visitation" stories where instead of forcing people to go one way or other, they offer inspiration or gentle nudging.
The only part that doesn't fit in the Angel/Devil analogy is the MIB's comments to Sawyer that he knows what its like to "feel joy, anger, fear, and experience betrayal" and to Kate "he once had a mother, who was "crazy" and gave him issues that he is still trying to get over" If this is true it doesn't really fit into my theory. Maybe there is some Greek/Egyption Mythology reference at play here.
Really good episode last night.
Here were the critical things that got explained last night
1. Jacob's (and his underlings) purpose is to keep MIB/Smokie on the island. Its more or less explained that if he gets off the whole world goes to hell.
2. Jacob's not working alone. He says to MIB, If I'm killed someone will replace me. This implies Jacob not only has underlings, but also is part of some "greater" organization which understands his reason for being there. More on this later.
3. Jacob tell's Richard that he has the power to bring people to the island AND they always die.
4. Jacob and M.I.B are playing some sort of game or bet over peoples souls. On whether they can be corrupted or not. This is probably why the smoke monster either CAN't kill certain people or chooses not to. I think he can't kill certain people because they are candidates. I think MIB chooses NOT to kill certain people because they possess (or lack) certain qualities that he can use to manipulate them against their will. Think back to Eko back in season two. Eko was not killed the first time he encountered by the MIB, but he wasn't chosen as one of the good people by the "others" either. So I think MIB was thinking Eko was someone he could use. Once Eko delcared himself free of sin, the Smoke monster killed him.
My theory is that Jacob has been put in place to be not only the guardian of MIB but also to redeem or rehabilitate him if possible. The game/bet is Jacob's futile attempt to see if he can convince MIB that some people are not corruptible and that therefore evil is not truly in the nature of man.
If correct, the only logical explanation is that Jacob is a "angel" or minor deity of some sort whose been put in place by God to pit wills against the "devil". The bible is littered with these kind of tests where Satan and God basically bet that they can corrupt a certain person by testing them under certain situations. This is just an extended test of that type.
The way Jacob explained "Free will" is very Christian idea And the whole way he appears to people off the island is very reminiscent of other "visitation" stories where instead of forcing people to go one way or other, they offer inspiration or gentle nudging.
The only part that doesn't fit in the Angel/Devil analogy is the MIB's comments to Sawyer that he knows what its like to "feel joy, anger, fear, and experience betrayal" and to Kate "he once had a mother, who was "crazy" and gave him issues that he is still trying to get over" If this is true it doesn't really fit into my theory. Maybe there is some Greek/Egyption Mythology reference at play here.
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Only thing with that good evil logic is that the MIB said jacob made him that way. So he originaly wasnt the smoke monster until jacob touched him. And the only real thing answered last night was what happen to the staute and how the boat ended up where it was. We still dont know how Jacob made Richard immortal. But we now have an estamate on how long rich has been there.
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he made him immortal by touching him. watch it again. right when he is saying "now that, i can do", he touches his shoulder. His touch does things to people.
we also found out why he brings people to the island.
Naw, I was pointing out the fact that last night when the ship arrived it was during a storm that produced massive swells which caused them to hit the statue as apposed to the clear and sunny day that we seen when MIB and Jacob were on the beach talking about the ship in the distance from last season's finale.
Even if it were the Black Rock I highly doubt they would've went pass without stopping on the island they wouldn't have needed the storm to forcibly keep them there. Cause you gotta figure this is back before turbine engines. So they coulda been at sea for months trying to reach their destination. That alone leads me to believe that was another ship.
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yeah i know, during a recap show, it was noted that that same ship was the black rock. what im saying is, as the ship was coming during that day when the skies were clear, perhaps jacob made the weather change, forcing the boat to come in their direction.
I gotta go back and check the recap show.
Rewatch that episode.
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Has MIB been caught in a lie yet?
He seem to be very honest?
I'm asking this because he told Richard that Jacob took his humanity and body away from him.
Could it be possible that the body we know as Jacob was originally MIB's, and the MIB body we know is just another body he used like he did with Locke?
He seem to be very honest?
I'm asking this because he told Richard that Jacob took his humanity and body away from him.
Could it be possible that the body we know as Jacob was originally MIB's, and the MIB body we know is just another body he used like he did with Locke?
IGN's take:
When I learned that this week's Lost was going to feature Richard Alpert, I knew we were in for something special. "Ab Aeterno" lives up to what I imagined a Richard flashback would be like. At this stage, it isn't heavy on the answers (we already know a lot about the character) but it's a great story that chronicles his journey to the island and his life changing encounter with both the Man in Black and Jacob. The overall story of Lost benefits immensely from the clarity that this week's episode provides. And it's all capped by one outstanding performance by Nestor Carbonell. Batmanuel – take a bow!
There isn't a whole lot of new information thrown at us but we do get a hell of a lot of confirmation on much of the speculation from over the last couple of seasons. A lot of assumptions that the Lost community had can now be confirmed. Richard Alpert arrived on the Black Rock, as a prisoner (something we weren't 100% sure of), was approached by Jacob and was made his representative. We now KNOW this about Richard. It's out of the way. Richard is no longer a mystery and for someone as mysterious as he has been throughout the course of the series – that is a huge deal!
Still, there is much we do learn about Ricardo's journey to the island that not only gives us some much needed insight into his character and his motivation but tells us a lot about both Jacob and the Man in Black. I think it was important to depict Richard as a god-fearing man as his encounters with both Jacob and MiB benefited from this particular point of view. From Richard's point-of-view there was only good or evil and not much room for anything in between. That made him easy prey for MiB who sought to use his beliefs as a way to turn him against Jacob – and it almost worked.
So what does Jacob do? He turns Richard's world view completely on its head. Sure, there is good and evil, but Jacob shows him that there is much more to human nature than just that. Those who Jacob brings to the island are given a second chance, their sins are washed away, and they are allowed to make their own choices and decisions to find themselves once again. Even in the most wicked there can still be good (look at Ben from just two weeks ago).
Richard is adopted into this new ideology right after being dragged into the water by Jacob and literally being put through something akin to a baptismal ritual. His head is repeatedly dunked into water and he goes from believing he's dead and the island is hell to becoming more open to what Jacob has to say. It's a fantastic visual and represents the series' faith based themes quite well. If we look back, I'm sure we'll find that many of the Losties have gone through a similar experience. Not necessarily as literal as what we saw for Richard (his original sin of murder is washed away), but a moment when they had to shed what they believed and in turn open themselves up to new possibilities. In fact, we've seen a lot of that this season in particular.
However, what I loved most about the scene between Jacob and Richard wasn't the fact that Richard's view of his religion and his world had been changed but that Jacob took a little something from the conversation as well. During this scene we learn a lot about why Jacob doesn't like to interfere in the lives of those who he brings to the island. This directly relates to something I've found troubling recently in his dealings with the Losties. In this scene between Richard and Jacob, Richard talks back and confronts Jacob about not saving the others on the Black Rock and that once in a while he should lend a helping hand. This is the genesis of their agreement and how Richard becomes Jacob's representative. It's an extremely important moment in the Lost mythos but it's also a huge turning point for Jacob, who for once, opens himself up to doing more than just 'playing god' and setting an example for the Man in Black. Both Richard and Jacob change and this affects everything going forward.
Loved the genie in the bottle imagery used to describe the Man in Black. There are plenty of parallels that can be drawn between the Smoke Monster and a genie, right down to the promise of granting wishes. However, with all these comparisons of the Smoke Monster to the devil and to genie are we still expected to believe that he/it is some sort of security system? Whatever happened to that? As it stands now, Jacob is the security system that keeps the Man in Black at bay.
"Ab Aeterno" makes me comfortable in the thought that going forward, we have a clear understanding of what the Man in Black is trying to do, why Jacob is trying to stop him and what the candidates are. Before this week, we had a rough outline but now I feel that all those key points have been made clear. That is what "Ab Aeterno" does best – it makes everything clear and straight forward. There are still a bunch of nagging questions biting at my ankles but if some of those don't get answered I think I'll be fine. The story itself is what is most important and the creative team have shown me that they've got that well under control. Thinking back to those last few episodes before Battlestar: Galactica ended, I never quite got the same feeling. There was too much left to answer and there was much speculation that was simply never addressed. I don't get that feeling with Lost. There are a few big questions left to answer; who will replace Jacob, how do the flash-sideways factor in, what is the MiB's name, but the story itself is pretty much defined from here on out.
The love story between Richard and Isabella was central to Richard's motivation throughout the flashback and it all led to a fantastic conclusion with Hurley at the end. I'm just thankful that Hurley didn't have to do a little "Ghosting" this week (FYI, I love Community) and allow Isabella to possess his body for one final kiss with Richard. The way it played out was beautiful though and gave the distraught Richard a reason to keep fighting. Isabella's message about stopping the Man in Black or we'll all go to hell was perfect. It clearly defines what needs to happen from here on out. And when Hurley (speaking for Isabella) says "we'll all go to hell", I don't think she's talking just about those on the island. Freeing the genie from the bottle could mean the end of the world!
As usual, there are a ton of tidbits in this episode that I absolutely loved. I'm continually astounded by how much substance is packed into each episode this season. Richard proclaiming they were all dead and declaring the island as hell harkens back to one of the oldest Lost theories ever. I never thought it was the case, even when Richard said it this week, but I'm still glad it was brought up again. Hearing Magnus Hanso mentioned by name was also a nice touch. We now know, as the blast door described, that the Black Rock was indeed the final resting place of one Magnus Hanso. I'm still curious to know, even though I doubt we will ever find out, how the Black Rock's ledger ended up in the hands of Tovard Hanso and eventually at a Southfield's auction. Tying the destruction of the statue to the Black Rock crashing into the island was a little convenient but it also killed two mysteries with one stone.
There were even a few very key references to earlier moments this season that really stood out. The dialogue during the scene were MiB gives Richard the mission to kill Jacob was pretty much word-for-word (recalling from memory) what Dogen said to Sayid. I'm not too sure why this parallel was drawn but it cemented how important the choice was. It's interesting that both times, the person sent to kill didn't succeed and eventually did succumb to the person they were trying to murder.
http://tv.ign.com/articles/107/1079542p1.html
When I learned that this week's Lost was going to feature Richard Alpert, I knew we were in for something special. "Ab Aeterno" lives up to what I imagined a Richard flashback would be like. At this stage, it isn't heavy on the answers (we already know a lot about the character) but it's a great story that chronicles his journey to the island and his life changing encounter with both the Man in Black and Jacob. The overall story of Lost benefits immensely from the clarity that this week's episode provides. And it's all capped by one outstanding performance by Nestor Carbonell. Batmanuel – take a bow!
There isn't a whole lot of new information thrown at us but we do get a hell of a lot of confirmation on much of the speculation from over the last couple of seasons. A lot of assumptions that the Lost community had can now be confirmed. Richard Alpert arrived on the Black Rock, as a prisoner (something we weren't 100% sure of), was approached by Jacob and was made his representative. We now KNOW this about Richard. It's out of the way. Richard is no longer a mystery and for someone as mysterious as he has been throughout the course of the series – that is a huge deal!
Still, there is much we do learn about Ricardo's journey to the island that not only gives us some much needed insight into his character and his motivation but tells us a lot about both Jacob and the Man in Black. I think it was important to depict Richard as a god-fearing man as his encounters with both Jacob and MiB benefited from this particular point of view. From Richard's point-of-view there was only good or evil and not much room for anything in between. That made him easy prey for MiB who sought to use his beliefs as a way to turn him against Jacob – and it almost worked.
So what does Jacob do? He turns Richard's world view completely on its head. Sure, there is good and evil, but Jacob shows him that there is much more to human nature than just that. Those who Jacob brings to the island are given a second chance, their sins are washed away, and they are allowed to make their own choices and decisions to find themselves once again. Even in the most wicked there can still be good (look at Ben from just two weeks ago).
Richard is adopted into this new ideology right after being dragged into the water by Jacob and literally being put through something akin to a baptismal ritual. His head is repeatedly dunked into water and he goes from believing he's dead and the island is hell to becoming more open to what Jacob has to say. It's a fantastic visual and represents the series' faith based themes quite well. If we look back, I'm sure we'll find that many of the Losties have gone through a similar experience. Not necessarily as literal as what we saw for Richard (his original sin of murder is washed away), but a moment when they had to shed what they believed and in turn open themselves up to new possibilities. In fact, we've seen a lot of that this season in particular.
However, what I loved most about the scene between Jacob and Richard wasn't the fact that Richard's view of his religion and his world had been changed but that Jacob took a little something from the conversation as well. During this scene we learn a lot about why Jacob doesn't like to interfere in the lives of those who he brings to the island. This directly relates to something I've found troubling recently in his dealings with the Losties. In this scene between Richard and Jacob, Richard talks back and confronts Jacob about not saving the others on the Black Rock and that once in a while he should lend a helping hand. This is the genesis of their agreement and how Richard becomes Jacob's representative. It's an extremely important moment in the Lost mythos but it's also a huge turning point for Jacob, who for once, opens himself up to doing more than just 'playing god' and setting an example for the Man in Black. Both Richard and Jacob change and this affects everything going forward.
Loved the genie in the bottle imagery used to describe the Man in Black. There are plenty of parallels that can be drawn between the Smoke Monster and a genie, right down to the promise of granting wishes. However, with all these comparisons of the Smoke Monster to the devil and to genie are we still expected to believe that he/it is some sort of security system? Whatever happened to that? As it stands now, Jacob is the security system that keeps the Man in Black at bay.
"Ab Aeterno" makes me comfortable in the thought that going forward, we have a clear understanding of what the Man in Black is trying to do, why Jacob is trying to stop him and what the candidates are. Before this week, we had a rough outline but now I feel that all those key points have been made clear. That is what "Ab Aeterno" does best – it makes everything clear and straight forward. There are still a bunch of nagging questions biting at my ankles but if some of those don't get answered I think I'll be fine. The story itself is what is most important and the creative team have shown me that they've got that well under control. Thinking back to those last few episodes before Battlestar: Galactica ended, I never quite got the same feeling. There was too much left to answer and there was much speculation that was simply never addressed. I don't get that feeling with Lost. There are a few big questions left to answer; who will replace Jacob, how do the flash-sideways factor in, what is the MiB's name, but the story itself is pretty much defined from here on out.
The love story between Richard and Isabella was central to Richard's motivation throughout the flashback and it all led to a fantastic conclusion with Hurley at the end. I'm just thankful that Hurley didn't have to do a little "Ghosting" this week (FYI, I love Community) and allow Isabella to possess his body for one final kiss with Richard. The way it played out was beautiful though and gave the distraught Richard a reason to keep fighting. Isabella's message about stopping the Man in Black or we'll all go to hell was perfect. It clearly defines what needs to happen from here on out. And when Hurley (speaking for Isabella) says "we'll all go to hell", I don't think she's talking just about those on the island. Freeing the genie from the bottle could mean the end of the world!
As usual, there are a ton of tidbits in this episode that I absolutely loved. I'm continually astounded by how much substance is packed into each episode this season. Richard proclaiming they were all dead and declaring the island as hell harkens back to one of the oldest Lost theories ever. I never thought it was the case, even when Richard said it this week, but I'm still glad it was brought up again. Hearing Magnus Hanso mentioned by name was also a nice touch. We now know, as the blast door described, that the Black Rock was indeed the final resting place of one Magnus Hanso. I'm still curious to know, even though I doubt we will ever find out, how the Black Rock's ledger ended up in the hands of Tovard Hanso and eventually at a Southfield's auction. Tying the destruction of the statue to the Black Rock crashing into the island was a little convenient but it also killed two mysteries with one stone.
There were even a few very key references to earlier moments this season that really stood out. The dialogue during the scene were MiB gives Richard the mission to kill Jacob was pretty much word-for-word (recalling from memory) what Dogen said to Sayid. I'm not too sure why this parallel was drawn but it cemented how important the choice was. It's interesting that both times, the person sent to kill didn't succeed and eventually did succumb to the person they were trying to murder.
http://tv.ign.com/articles/107/1079542p1.html
Excellent episode
I just started to watch lost this season but I'm guessing the series is gonna end with the circle repeating itself. One of the candidates is gonna take Jacob's spot and someone else is gonna be the evil person, and its gonna be the candidate to keep the evil person on the island and its just gonna be the same shit all over again
yeah, basically. it just boils down to which two. sawyer and jack?
Propz. My DVR spazzed out on me last night. I sincerely preciate this one!
could be both but the writers of this show seem to be on some other shit so they will come up with some random shit to have some twist at the end coming from someone unexpected
