Shane Mosley: I'm The Best at 147, Not Manny Pacquiao

[Spectrum]

Exactly and that was because Zab was the most decent competition Floyd had in years. Factor in that Zab had just lost to a bum and had already been knocked out and you get an idea of the quality of Floyd's opponents. Now regarding Floyd's defense, please be objective and look at who he has been defending against. This guy has been defending against an old De La Hoya (always flurries and misses a lot), Baldomir ( a straight up bum), Gatti (a celebrated borderline bum), Corley (another bum), a bunch of other bums, an undersized Hatton, and a midget Marquez.

Floyd has gone his entire career, and with the exception of a few fights, not taken much punishment at all. This is in multiple weight classes. Please sell that resume bullshit to someone else that would buy it. Dont sell resume and then talk about RJJ because RJJ had more bums than anyone on his resume.

You gotta be honest fam... if you are going to discuss fighters, you have to be consistent in how you are analyzing them.

You Floyd fans should really expect more from him than this.

Im a fan of boxing..not of any boxers in particular. I actually started a thread calling out Floyd a couple of years back and caught shit for it.

However, you cats stating that Floyd was running from Margarito of all people are really fucking tripping. Floyd would murder Margarito easily... Margarito is another easy type of fight for Floyd... slow.. very little lateral movement, and very little boxing IQ... easy UD....people need to stop bringing up Margarito.

How can you really rate his defensive skills against opposition like this? I could see if he was able to be untouchable against somebody decent like a Shane Mosley, Paul Williams, or damn, at least a Cory Spinks.

But fam.. how are you going to say that and then say he shouldnt be mentioned in the same breadth as RJJ... RJJ fought twice as many bums as Floyd regardless of the argument made about the weakness at middleweight during his tenure...and he too avoided fighters (like never getting back in the ring with B-hop).

To put Floyd anywhere close to Sweet Pea on any list of all time great defenders is an insult to boxing itself. Sweet Pea proved his defensive skills against real guys like Azumah Nelson, Julio Cesar Chavez, Buddy McGirt, and many others. Floyd does not deserve to be there until he fights a live body his own size.

Who is better than Floyd defensively in boxing right now or even over the last decade or so

Answer that question for me... and dont say RJJ...RJJ was just fast..he had and has horrible defensive mechanics and once the speed went, he started getting KOd.

Let Floyd prove himself. To declare him all time greatest at anything right now is very premature because of the guys he's been fighting. I could also declare myself the greatest puncher of all time if I went to an elementary school and started knocking out 4 ft twelve year olds.

He said he was the all-time greatest. I certainly didnt. However, you are going to be hard pressed to name someone from this era who is better DEFENSIVELY...and cut the bullshit like Floyd has ONLY fought bums his entire career. Tyson fought bums his entire career and lost to every fighter of any merit (except for over the hill and then out of true weight class like spinks). You can compare the two.

Floyd needs to add a couple more wins against true greats like Mosley to solidify his place..but to act like he has fought bums his entire career is dishonest at best...

 

[Ming Fei Hong]

I'm not even sure Mayweather could beat Berto.

 

[Zeferino]

I like Spinks, but you got to be kidding right. Floyd can't get credit for Zab, but he should fight Spinks.

Mosley didn't want it with Floyd. A fight between them could of happened years ago if Shane wasn't shook.

Paul Williams is fighting at Middleweight and Mayweather is a midget in comparison so if I use your excuses to discredit the Marquez victory. Why should it be far for Floyd to fight Williams?

Castillo was a great fighter. No one will argue that, but he still lost. I had both fights at draws myself.

You had the Castillo fights at draws yet Mayweather is supposed to be untouchable? Interesting. Sure Williams is fighting at middleweight but that's only because guys like Mayweather won't fight him. Don't pretend like you don't know Williams was probably still a welter just last year. Mosley said that the fight should happen down the line because it would be bigger and he was right. Now is the perfect time financially for that fight to come off. Regarding the Spinks comment, I'm saying Mayweather just needs to fight somebody his own size and age already. Even Spinks would be better than what he's been doing lately.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Jones losing his speed is a myth. Jones is probably still the fastest guy in boxing right now. Jones lost more than speed, he lost muscle, strength and the ability to take a punch. This was a direct result of coming down in weight the wrong way especially since Jones had very little fat to burn in the first place. There are a lot of fast guys in boxing but simply having superhuman speed will not guarantee you success in boxing. You have to know the game and also have the stuff inside that it takes to be a champion. Andre Dirrell is fast as hell too but I seriously doubt that he will have the success of Roy Jones. Meldrick Taylor and Michael Nunn were speed demons also. So, to just dismiss Jones as some fast guy that was only good because of speed is extremely shallow.

What do you think would happen if Floyd Mayweather Jr decided to go back down to 135 pounds and rematch Juan Manuel Marquez there within the next 6 months?

Hand speed is still there but his body and feet are shot. That's speed we are talking about. Roy is getting hit in situations that he normally would not get hit in.

"he lost muscle, strength and the ability to take a punch."

What are you talking about. Roy still hurts niggas, but he doesn't have a killer instinct anymore.

For all we know, Roy was never able to take clean shots, because he barely got hit and when he did get hit, it either muffled or body shots.

 

[Spectrum]

Jones losing his speed is a myth. Jones is probably still the fastest guy in boxing right now.

And you are talking about fans.. are you serious... Roy Jones as the faster guy in boxing NOW

Jones lost more than speed, he lost muscle, strength and the ability to take a punch. This was a direct result of coming down in weight the wrong way especially since Jones had very little fat to burn in the first place.

Going up in weight where he put on 50 pounds to fight Ruiz and then came back down to 172 was commendable and yes it did detriment to his body... HOWEVER, Jones was already beginning to slow down. Now, combine that with the fact that he has horrible tendencies like fighting with his hands down at his fucking waste..and you now have a fighter who never got his getting knocked the fuck out consistently...then he just went through the motions so that he wouldnt get KOd (third fight against Tarver).

Roy Jones is nowhere as fast as we was during the 90s in his prime. Jones hasnt won a meaningful fight in damn near 9 years.

There are a lot of fast guys in boxing but simply having superhuman speed will not guarantee you success in boxing. You have to know the game and also have the stuff inside that it takes to be a champion. Andre Dirrell is fast as hell too but I seriously doubt that he will have the success of Roy Jones. Meldrick Taylor and Michael Nunn were speed demons also. So, to just dismiss Jones as some fast guy that was only good because of speed is extremely shallow.

Come on man...be serious... If you are naming all these fighters, you have watched enough boxing to know that you have never seen anyone at middleweight and heavier with the type of speed and reflexes that RJJ had... not even close. Dirrell doesnt and Taylor didnt have RJJ type of speed and reflexes. RJJ was always so much faster than everyone else that he could get away with bad habits. he could fight with his hands down and never learn real defensive tactics BECAUSE HE NEVER HAD TO.

When the speed went, he didnt have the defensively capabalities to limit the amount of times someone could knock his fucking log off because he was still fighting with his hands down but he didnt have the reflexes to avoid getting hit.

RJJ has horrible defensive mechanics and even attempting to compare him to someone like Mayweather is just fucking stupid. Just like Floyd has never had the offensive capabilities of RJJ in terms of the combination of speed and power.. RJJ has never even remotely had the defensive capabilities of Floyd and it is a joke to even try to claim it..

What do you think would happen if Floyd Mayweather Jr decided to go back down to 135 pounds and rematch Juan Manuel Marquez there within the next 6 months?

Same shit that happened in their previous fight. Marquez doesnt have the physical gifts or boxing skills to beat Floyd. what is going to do.. outbox floyd ...even at 135 floyd is going to be faster and stronger... Marquez cant beat floyd..

stick to the Williams argument..... I think Williams and Shane are really the only two that would give Floyd problems

 

[Spectrum]

I agree with most of what you wrote. If Mayweather is supposed to be the master of defense, then he should be able to prove it against Williams or Mosley. I don't think Mosley is as good right now as Margarito made him look and as I've written on here before I think Berto might pull off the upset. However, I still think Mosley still has the class, style, speed, and quality to upset Mayweather. I can't see Mayweather landing single shots on Mosley or making Mosley miss.

Well.. this is the thing about the Margarito fight... It is a bad judge in terms of knowing if Mosley still has his speed. If he doesnt have the speed, he is not going to beat Floyd because you cant beat what you can hit..and Shane would be coming up with air all fight getting countered to death and lose by UD.. but if the speed is there, Mosley can hurt Floyd.

I'm not even sure Mayweather could beat Berto.

Come on son.. i was just taking you seriously

 

[Zeferino]

Floyd has gone his entire career, and with the exception of a few fights, not taken much punishment at all. This is in multiple weight classes. Please sell that resume bullshit to someone else that would buy it. Dont sell resume and then talk about RJJ because RJJ had more bums than anyone on his resume.

You gotta be honest fam... if you are going to discuss fighters, you have to be consistent in how you are analyzing them.



Im a fan of boxing..not of any boxers in particular. I actually started a thread calling out Floyd a couple of years back and caught shit for it.

However, you cats stating that Floyd was running from Margarito of all people are really fucking tripping. Floyd would murder Margarito easily... Margarito is another easy type of fight for Floyd... slow.. very little lateral movement, and very little boxing IQ... easy UD....people need to stop bringing up Margarito.




But fam.. how are you going to say that and then say he shouldnt be mentioned in the same breadth as RJJ... RJJ fought twice as many bums as Floyd regardless of the argument made about the weakness at middleweight during his tenure...and he too avoided fighters (like never getting back in the ring with B-hop).





Who is better than Floyd defensively in boxing right now or even over the last decade or so

Answer that question for me... and dont say RJJ...RJJ was just fast..he had and has horrible defensive mechanics and once the speed went, he started getting KOd.




He said he was the all-time greatest. I certainly didnt. However, you are going to be hard pressed to name someone from this era who is better DEFENSIVELY...and cut the bullshit like Floyd has ONLY fought bums his entire career. Tyson fought bums his entire career and lost to every fighter of any merit (except for over the hill and then out of true weight class like spinks). You can compare the two.

Floyd needs to add a couple more wins against true greats like Mosley to solidify his place..but to act like he has fought bums his entire career is dishonest at best...

Regarding Roy Jones Jr, it can be summed up like this. Although Jones fought bums, he also cleaned out his division or at least fought the best guys in the division he campaigned in. Jones fought bums and also took risks. When is the last time Mayweather took a risk? Can you argue with that? I think not. Has Mayweather ever been the undisputed champion of any division and made any defenses? You always knew Jones was the man in any division he was in and you had to think of heavyweights to even imagine someone could beat him.

Also, during Jones' reign or prime, you could never pull out a whole list of guys in his own division that he didn't fight. You can for Mayweather. So there's the difference. Jones was a much more complete pound for pound champion than Mayweather has ever been.

A prime Jones was better defensively than anyone since Sweet Pea because the definition of defense is "not getting hit". There is nothing in the book of defense stating you have to use a shoulder roll, parry, or use a cross arm defense for it to be considered "true defense". Jones was barely hittable for over a decade and he used all types of defense.

You never saw Jones parry shots with his gloves? That's not defense? You never saw Jones duck under a shot? That's not defense? Look at Jones inside fighting against Merqui Sosa in the second round and tell me that's not some of the best infighting/defense you've ever seen and that's with Jones' back against the ropes.

So just because Jones didn't hide behind a shoulder roll and blab about his defense doesn't mean he wasn't a great defender. Really, who gave you the lock on what the definition of defense is?

Also, regarding Margarito, I didn't mention Margarito but I find it awful suspect that Mayweather opted to fight Baldomir instead for the same money that he would have gotten for Margarito. Had he "murdered" Margarito as you say, I guarantee you no one would be giving him flak for avoiding that bum Baldomir.

 

[Spectrum]

Hand speed is still there but his body and feet are shot. That's speed we are talking about. Roy is getting hit in situations that he normally would not get hit in.

"he lost muscle, strength and the ability to take a punch."

What are you talking about. Roy still hurts niggas, but he doesn't have a killer instinct anymore.

For all we know, Roy was never able to take clean shots, because he barely got hit and when he did get hit, it either muffled or body shots.

Exactly.. the lateral speed is gone...and yeah.. I am wondering if it was the crazy weight gains and losses OR if Roy always had a weak chin...because when he gets KOd..he gets KOd... lights out before he hits the canvas and no chance of him getting up to make the count...

 

[Spectrum]

Regarding Roy Jones Jr, it can be summed up like this. Although Jones fought bums, he also cleaned out his division or at least fought the best guys in the division he campaigned in. Jones fought bums and also took risks. When is the last time Mayweather took a risk? Can you argue with that? I think not. Has Mayweather ever been the undisputed champion of any division and made any defenses? You always knew Jones was the man in any division he was in and you had to think of heavyweights to even imagine someone could beat him.

You were arguing about the defensive ranking of the boxers. That was the point of the RJJ reference. You are now starting a completely different argument now.

Ive already been on record criticizing Floyd for his resume. If he doesnt win at least two more fights against all-time greats while they are still on the top of their game, his legacy is going to be hurt.

A prime Jones was better defensively than anyone since Sweet Pea because the definition of defense is "not getting hit". There is nothing in the book of defense stating you have to use a shoulder roll, parry, or use a cross arm defense for it to be considered "true defense". Jones was barely hittable for over a decade and he used all types of defense.

He didnt use all types of defenses. The nigga was just superhuman fast. That is all and once he lost the speed, it was a wrap. Sweat Pea didnt finish his career getting KOd because although he was fast, he defensive tactics were not 100 percent dependent on sheer speed. Same thing with Floyd. Floyd is fast, but the orthodox defensive style is not speed-dependent.

Jones was purely faster than everyone else..had nothing to do with ANY defensive tactics. Once the lateral speed was gone, dude starting getting his head mashed.

RJJ was one of the all-time greats.. but he will never make any all-time greatest defensive boxers lists when it is all said and done.

Also, regarding Margarito, I didn't mention Margarito but I find it awful suspect that Mayweather opted to fight Baldomir instead for the same money that he would have gotten for Margarito. Had he "murdered" Margarito as you say, I guarantee you no one would be giving him flak for avoiding that bum Baldomir.

That money wasnt gauranteed man.. how was arun going to gaurantee 9 million for Margarito when Margarito was an unknown outside of the boxing world..

fighters like Cotto and Margarito dont really provide any risk to Floyd... they are too damn slow laterally... he would just outbox them and win by decision easily.

 

[Zeferino]

And you are talking about fans.. are you serious... Roy Jones as the faster guy in boxing NOW



Going up in weight where he put on 50 pounds to fight Ruiz and then came back down to 172 was commendable and yes it did detriment to his body... HOWEVER, Jones was already beginning to slow down. Now, combine that with the fact that he has horrible tendencies like fighting with his hands down at his fucking waste..and you now have a fighter who never got his getting knocked the fuck out consistently...then he just went through the motions so that he wouldnt get KOd (third fight against Tarver).

Roy Jones is nowhere as fast as we was during the 90s in his prime. Jones hasnt won a meaningful fight in damn near 9 years.




Come on man...be serious... If you are naming all these fighters, you have watched enough boxing to know that you have never seen anyone at middleweight and heavier with the type of speed and reflexes that RJJ had... not even close. Dirrell doesnt and Taylor didnt have RJJ type of speed and reflexes. RJJ was always so much faster than everyone else that he could get away with bad habits. he could fight with his hands down and never learn real defensive tactics BECAUSE HE NEVER HAD TO.

When the speed went, he didnt have the defensively capabalities to limit the amount of times someone could knock his fucking log off because he was still fighting with his hands down but he didnt have the reflexes to avoid getting hit.

RJJ has horrible defensive mechanics and even attempting to compare him to someone like Mayweather is just fucking stupid. Just like Floyd has never had the offensive capabilities of RJJ in terms of the combination of speed and power.. RJJ has never even remotely had the defensive capabilities of Floyd and it is a joke to even try to claim it..




Same shit that happened in their previous fight. Marquez doesnt have the physical gifts or boxing skills to beat Floyd. what is going to do.. outbox floyd ...even at 135 floyd is going to be faster and stronger... Marquez cant beat floyd..

stick to the Williams argument..... I think Williams and Shane are really the only two that would give Floyd problems

Wow, ok. If you really think Floyd can make 135lbs for his very next fight within the next 6 months and beat Marquez like nothing happened, then you have a very special opinion. I don't think even Mayweather would agree with you.

The notion that Jones never learned how to defend himself is just ridiculous IMO. I don't think you've seen any amateur footage of Jones because you would see that although he was still fast, he fought much more like a classic boxer with his hands up only dropping them sporadically. Jones attempted to be more of a showman in the professional ranks and that's why he dropped his hands and showboated more. He did it because he could not because he had to.

Do you really think Jones' father never taught him the fundamentals of fighting when he was a kid? You really think his father never taught him to block or to put his hands up? You think Jones was fighting with his hands down and showboating from day one? I'm not sure even Brendan Ingle trains his fighters that way.

And Jones may not be as fast as he was in the 90's but in that Lacy fight he looked damn close. Look at that Lacy fight and tell me who today can throw combinations faster than that. Oh, but you'll say it was because he was fighting Lacy. Guess what? Maybe that's why Mayweather's defense looks so great, because he's fighting bums like Baldomir and midgets like Marquez.

 

[Alaskanredman]

You had the Castillo fights at draws yet Mayweather is supposed to be untouchable? Interesting. Sure Williams is fighting at middleweight but that's only because guys like Mayweather won't fight him. Don't pretend like you don't know Williams was probably still a welter just last year. Mosley said that the fight should happen down the line because it would be bigger and he was right. Now is the perfect time financially for that fight to come off. Regarding the Spinks comment, I'm saying Mayweather just needs to fight somebody his own size and age already. Even Spinks would be better than what he's been doing lately.

Dude, this is boxing. No one is untouchable, and there is always a fighter that's got your number.

Williams was always built like middleweight. What was freaky about him is that he fight at welterweight.

Mayweather was always built like a light weight. He had to bulk up and his just started getting used to the weight.

What does age have to do with anything?

 

[Spectrum]

Wow, ok. If you really think Floyd can make 135lbs for his very next fight within the next 6 months and beat Marquez like nothing happened, then you have a very special opinion. I don't think even Mayweather would agree with you.

Marquez doesnt have anything that would lead anyone to believe that he could beat Floyd even at 135.

The notion that Jones never learned how to defend himself is just ridiculous IMO.

Im about to log off so Im not going to really get into this anymore.

This is a straw man. I never said that Jones didnt learn how to defend himself. Come on..he is a fucking professional boxer. Obviously that is not my argument.

However, and not just for showmanship, Jones always had horrible defensive tactics (like fighting with his hand down at his waste).. but it didnt matter because he was too fast to be hit. And no, Jones was never (not in the amateurs either) known for having a strong defensive game. He was always just lightning fucking fast and couldnt be hit but he had NOTHING to do with defensive tactics and had everything to do solely with being insanely faster than everyone...not just a bit...dude was on some video game speed

Floyd was known for his defense since his first professional fight because he is truely a DEFENSIVE fighter and to state otherwise is really absurd. Speed is but ONE component of the defensive tactics of Floyd..

come on man.. dont be a hater.....shit is ridiculous..to the point that you said you dont even think that Mayweather could be BERTO

 

[Zeferino]

Hand speed is still there but his body and feet are shot. That's speed we are talking about. Roy is getting hit in situations that he normally would not get hit in.

"he lost muscle, strength and the ability to take a punch."

What are you talking about. Roy still hurts niggas, but he doesn't have a killer instinct anymore.

For all we know, Roy was never able to take clean shots, because he barely got hit and when he did get hit, it either muffled or body shots.

I think it's more than just a coincidence that Jones only started getting rocked after the weight loss when coming down from heavyweight. In that first round against Ruiz, Jones took a big right hand that wobbled his legs a little and didn't get knocked totally out. That was a shot from a true heavyweight and that was probably the last fight in which we saw the real Roy Jones.

In Jones first fight back at light heavy, he looked lethargic from round one, looked dehydrated between rounds, and was rocked for the very first time in a fight in the 10th round. After that, as we all know, he got knocked out back to back in subsequent fights. I think it was obvious that something was going on with Jones other than a natural decline.

I don't care how many defensive skills people think Mayweather has, if he has to make a weight 20 pounds less than his current fighting weight within the next five months, he is likely to get Kayoed by almost anyone.

 

[Zeferino]

Marquez doesnt have anything that would lead anyone to believe that he could beat Floyd even at 135.



Im about to log off so Im not going to really get into this anymore.

This is a straw man. I never said that Jones didnt learn how to defend himself. Come on..he is a fucking professional boxer. Obviously that is not my argument.

However, and not just for showmanship, Jones always had horrible defensive tactics (like fighting with his hand down at his waste).. but it didnt matter because he was too fast to be hit. And no, Jones was never (not in the amateurs either) known for having a strong defensive game. He was always just lightning fucking fast and couldnt be hit but he had NOTHING to do with defensive tactics and had everything to do solely with being insanely faster than everyone...not just a bit...dude was on some video game speed

Floyd was known for his defense since his first professional fight because he is truely a DEFENSIVE fighter and to state otherwise is really absurd. Speed is but ONE component of the defensive tactics of Floyd..

come on man.. dont be a hater.....shit is ridiculous..to the point that you said you dont even think that Mayweather could be BERTO

I said, I'm not sure Mayweather could beat Berto and I'm not. Mayweather hasn't proven to me that he can beat a decent welterweight not on the decline. Has he proven that to you?

Sure Jones fought with his hands down sometimes but even Pernell Whitaker did. Just because Jones was too fast to have to use conventional tactics all the time doesn't mean he didn't have them.

We will continue to disagree on this because we have different opinions on the definition of defense.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

bumping, so I can jump back into this tomorrow morning.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Wow, ok. If you really think Floyd can make 135lbs for his very next fight within the next 6 months and beat Marquez like nothing happened, then you have a very special opinion. I don't think even Mayweather would agree with you.

The notion that Jones never learned how to defend himself is just ridiculous IMO. I don't think you've seen any amateur footage of Jones because you would see that although he was still fast, he fought much more like a classic boxer with his hands up only dropping them sporadically. Jones attempted to be more of a showman in the professional ranks and that's why he dropped his hands and showboated more. He did it because he could not because he had to.

Do you really think Jones' father never taught him the fundamentals of fighting when he was a kid? You really think his father never taught him to block or to put his hands up? You think Jones was fighting with his hands down and showboating from day one? I'm not sure even Brendan Ingle trains his fighters that way.

And Jones may not be as fast as he was in the 90's but in that Lacy fight he looked damn close. Look at that Lacy fight and tell me who today can throw combinations faster than that. Oh, but you'll say it was because he was fighting Lacy. Guess what? Maybe that's why Mayweather's defense looks so great, because he's fighting bums like Baldomir and midgets like Marquez.

Lacy is a turtle. When have you seen Jones use his defense to tell if his defense is good?

 

[Lower9Nupe]

No he shouldn't have. He clearly controlled that fight from around the 3-4th round forward, all on the criteria you used: ring generalship, punches landed and quality of punches. The right guy won that fight. Even Oscar doesn't put up more than a weak defense for losing that fight and he's the whiniest, excuse-makingest bitch in boxing.

=====================================
That nigga should have LOST. First and foremost Oscar had the belt. Ain't no way in HELL should a challenger, REGARDLESS of who he is, be given the LUXURY of NOT being the aggressor in a championship fight. For example...Do you remember the first Holyfield/Lewis fight? Everybody, including the announcers said Lewis won that fight. I was in a room with 50 niggas and started taking bets that it was a DRAW. Why? Because Holyfield had (2) belts and Lewis had (1). Lewis HONESTLY thought he could jab, retreat (defense - LOL) his way to victory while Holyfield chased his ass around the ring eating jabs. The JUDGES (old-school motherfuggas) didn't see it that way. Floyd wasn't the aggressor. Threw meaningless punches. Oscar went to a photoshoot after the fight instead of hospital. (true) Sorry...That nigga didn't deserve he belt. Winning it set YOU up for the bullshit you see now. A fuckin welterweight PRETENDER. Had he not won a SPLIT decision, he would have HAD to fight another welterweight. He hasn't. He won't. He can't. The fact that muthafuggas believe he can without ANY PROOF or EVIDENCE that he can is simple-minded shit.

 

[Spectrum]

We will continue to disagree on this because we have different opinions on the definition of defense.

We sure do. Sweat Pea would also put his hands down when he knew the opponent couldnt hurt him. However, he never habitually dropped his hands when a fighter could legitimately hurt him... RJJ has and he has paid the price for it. That is the key difference. Dropping the hands is not the issue... having a HABIT of dropping your hands for years because you are completely sufficient on speed ALONE is the problem.. and it caught up with him. and Sweat Pea has never been KOd and his resume is rock solid.

 

[Zeferino]

=====================================
That nigga should have LOST. First and foremost Oscar had the belt. Ain't no way in HELL should a challenger, REGARDLESS of who he is, be given the LUXURY of NOT being the aggressor in a championship fight. For example...Do you remember the first Holyfield/Lewis fight? Everybody, including the announcers said Lewis won that fight. I was in a room with 50 niggas and started taking bets that it was a DRAW. Why? Because Holyfield had (2) belts and Lewis had (1). Lewis HONESTLY thought he could jab, retreat (defense - LOL) his way to victory while Holyfield chased his ass around the ring eating jabs. The JUDGES (old-school motherfuggas) didn't see it that way. Floyd wasn't the aggressor. Threw meaningless punches. Oscar went to a photoshoot after the fight instead of hospital. (true) Sorry...That nigga didn't deserve he belt. Winning it set YOU up for the bullshit you see now. A fuckin welterweight PRETENDER. Had he not won a SPLIT decision, he would have HAD to fight another welterweight. He hasn't. He won't. He can't. The fact that muthafuggas believe he can without ANY PROOF or EVIDENCE that he can is simple-minded shit.

Amen

 

[Spectrum]

=====================================
That nigga should have LOST. First and foremost Oscar had the belt. Ain't no way in HELL should a challenger, REGARDLESS of who he is, be given the LUXURY of NOT being the aggressor in a championship fight..

Oscar lost the fight when he stopped throwing the jab in the 6th. From the 6th on out his performance was sub-par to say the least. Floyd counter-punched him to death.. by the 9th round, Oscar was just swinging at air.

If Oscar keeps throwing the jab, he wins the fight. I still dont understand why he stopped throwing it..

But I dont see how anyone can watch that fight objectively and come to the conclusion that Oscar done.

 

[Alaskanredman]

=====================================
That nigga should have LOST. First and foremost Oscar had the belt. Ain't no way in HELL should a challenger, REGARDLESS of who he is, be given the LUXURY of NOT being the aggressor in a championship fight. For example...Do you remember the first Holyfield/Lewis fight? Everybody, including the announcers said Lewis won that fight. I was in a room with 50 niggas and started taking bets that it was a DRAW. Why? Because Holyfield had (2) belts and Lewis had (1). Lewis HONESTLY thought he could jab, retreat (defense - LOL) his way to victory while Holyfield chased his ass around the ring eating jabs. The JUDGES (old-school motherfuggas) didn't see it that way. Floyd wasn't the aggressor. Threw meaningless punches. Oscar went to a photoshoot after the fight instead of hospital. (true) Sorry...That nigga didn't deserve he belt. Winning it set YOU up for the bullshit you see now. A fuckin welterweight PRETENDER. Had he not won a SPLIT decision, he would have HAD to fight another welterweight. He hasn't. He won't. He can't. The fact that muthafuggas believe he can without ANY PROOF or EVIDENCE that he can is simple-minded shit.

So you believe in cheating challengers?

 

[Zeferino]

We sure do. Sweat Pea would also put his hands down when he knew the opponent couldnt hurt him. However, he never habitually dropped his hands when a fighter could legitimately hurt him... RJJ has and he has paid the price for it. That is the key difference. Dropping the hands is not the issue... having a HABIT of dropping your hands for years because you are completely sufficient on speed ALONE is the problem.. and it caught up with him. and Sweat Pea has never been KOd and his resume is rock solid.

No, the key difference is Sweet Pea never had to lose 25 pounds of pure muscle in 5 months and fight a top guy. If you think that makes absolutely no difference or has no bearing at all in this topic then you better ask Chris Byrd. If Mayweather drops 25 pounds or even 15 and fights even Juan Diaz like nothing happen then you can compare his defense to Roy's. If Mayweather does that he'll be looking for a KO to happen to him no matter how great his defense is supposed to be. Again, if you don't believe Jones, ask Chris Byrd. Byrd should fit your criteria of a defensive specialist and look what happened to him last year at light heavyweight.

 

[Zeferino]

Oscar lost the fight when he stopped throwing the jab in the 6th. From the 6th on out his performance was sub-par to say the least. Floyd counter-punched him to death.. by the 9th round, Oscar was just swinging at air.

If Oscar keeps throwing the jab, he wins the fight. I still dont understand why he stopped throwing it..

But I dont see how anyone can watch that fight objectively and come to the conclusion that Oscar done.

I don't think Oscar won but I don't think he deserved to lose. Both him and Mayweather looked like shit but at least Oscar had an excuse.

 

[Spectrum]

No, the key difference is Sweet Pea never had to lose 25 pounds of pure muscle in 5 months and fight a top guy. If you think that makes absolutely no difference or has no bearing at all in this topic then you better ask Chris Byrd. If Mayweather drops 25 pounds or even 15 and fights even Juan Diaz like nothing happen then you can compare his defense to Roy's. If Mayweather does that he'll be looking for a KO to happen to him no matter how great his defense is supposed to be. Again, if you don't believe Jones, ask Chris Byrd. Byrd should fit your criteria of a defensive specialist and look what happened to him last year at light heavyweight.

Why do you keep making the straw man argument. That is not my argument.

And are you using that for the Tarver fight.. even though I thought he lost the first fight to Tarver, it wasnt until the SECOND fight with Tarver that got KOd.. and he refused to fight in the 3rd one.... but he got KOd in the Johnson fight.. AFTER he had already been given the decision in his return down to 175... so the argument doesnt completely float bra... it wasnt like he got KOd on this first fight back down to 175..and was against the same fighter... you are trying to revise history

 

[FJP]

Zef that decision is actually how boxing should be. The man who scored more points won. If you judged that fight based on boxing not the belt holder, floyd won am I right?

 

[Alaskanredman]

No, the key difference is Sweet Pea never had to lose 25 pounds of pure muscle in 5 months and fight a top guy. If you think that makes absolutely no difference or has no bearing at all in this topic then you better ask Chris Byrd. If Mayweather drops 25 pounds or even 15 and fights even Juan Diaz like nothing happen then you can compare his defense to Roy's. If Mayweather does that he'll be looking for a KO to happen to him no matter how great his defense is supposed to be. Again, if you don't believe Jones, ask Chris Byrd. Byrd should fit your criteria of a defensive specialist and look what happened to him last year at light heavyweight.

Jones fighting ability dependent heavily on his natural abilities. That ability was not going to last forever regardless of weight.

 

[Spectrum]

I don't think Oscar won but I don't think he deserved to lose. Both him and Mayweather looked like shit but at least Oscar had an excuse.

He got outboxed and ran out of gas. This wasnt some robbery shit like with DLH-Trinidad... he went away from what was working (the jab) and then got outboxed the second half of the fight. He lost the fight and floyd did what he needed to do to win.

 

[Zeferino]

Zef that decision is actually how boxing should be. The man who scored more points won. If you judged that fight based on boxing not the belt holder, floyd won am I right?

Yeah, you know, if you had to give it to anyone I guess you had to give it to Floyd but Floyd's performance was very poor in my opinion. I think Floyd should have stepped it up and beaten Oscar way more convincing. I think Oscar was there for the taking especially in the middle rounds. Even Pernell Whittaker had more killer instinct.

 

[Spectrum]

Jones fighting ability dependent heavily on his natural abilities. That ability was not going to last forever regardless of weight.

Exactly. No knock on RJJ because he is a legend but his style of fighting would get most boxers KOd on the regular.

 

[Zeferino]

Jones fighting ability dependent heavily on his natural abilities. That ability was not going to last forever regardless of weight.

You're right, but his decline would not have been as sharp and guys like Tarver and especially Glen Johnson still never would have had a chance.

 

[Spectrum]

Even Pernell Whittaker had more killer instinct.

with a MUCH lower KO rate Sweat Pea is my favorite boxer but you are tripping...

 

[Alaskanredman]

You're right, but his decline would not have been as sharp and guys like Tarver and especially Glen Johnson still never would have had a chance.

Tarver and Glen Johnson are okay fighters, but they are nothing special. Mainly Tarver.

 

[Alaskanredman]

with a MUCH lower KO rate Sweat Pea is my favorite boxer but you are tripping...

it's the say anything to make Floyd look bad argument.

 

[FJP]

Yeah, you know, if you had to give it to anyone I guess you had to give it to Floyd but Floyd's performance was very poor in my opinion. I think Floyd should have stepped it up and beaten Oscar way more convincing. I think Oscar was there for the taking especially in the middle rounds. Even Pernell Whittaker had more killer instinct.

Seriously that was the only result it could have been. That fight was at 154, why do you think Floyd hasnt fought up there again. He cant hurt anybody at 154, he can outpoint them though. And he knew it. After those first few rounds he knew had to dance his way to a victory, that pretty shit would have probably got him floored. All them blank flurries Oscar threw still made contact with him, he didnt want to feel that power all night so he got on his horse. I cant hate a man for winning the best way he can.

 

[Zeferino]

Why do you keep making the straw man argument. That is not my argument.

And are you using that for the Tarver fight.. even though I thought he lost the first fight to Tarver, it wasnt until the SECOND fight with Tarver that got KOd.. and he refused to fight in the 3rd one.... but he got KOd in the Johnson fight.. AFTER he had already been given the decision in his return down to 175... so the argument doesnt completely float bra... it wasnt like he got KOd on this first fight back down to 175..and was against the same fighter... you are trying to revise history

I keep making it because part of your assessment that Mayweather and Sweet Pea had better defense than Jones is based on Jones getting kayoed and/or losing speed and becoming ineffective. However, this is a very unfair comparison because Sweet Pea and Mayweather did not go through what Jones went through. Chris Byrd is considered more of a so called defensive purist than Jones was and look what happened to him when he came all the way down from heavyweight. He got totally wiped out by an unknown bum. This was the same Chris Byrd that was taking big shots from heavyweights for years.

Jones fought dehydrated in his first fight back from heavyweight and it showed. Everyone knows that dehydrated fighters are more susceptible to damage in the ring than others. It's no coincidence that in that fight Jones got badly rocked for the first time in his career. In the second Tarver fight, Jones just came back to quick and any objective observer can tell that he didn't look himself from the first round. He came back quick again for the Glen Johnson fight and looked scared from the first round, got rocked in the first round, the fifth round too, and eventually knocked totally out. I'm sorry but all this had a little more to do with than Jones simply losing some speed.

Even Emmanuel Steward said on the telecast that he thought Jones had a brain injury and was coming back too fast. Check out his comments after the Johnson fight.

Again, I don't care how great Mayweather is supposed to be defensively, as fat-less as he is, if he were to come down even 15 pounds for his next fight, somebody would be knocking him out or at least down several times.